American Football

[CalicoConsulting]

I simply couldn't watch the NFL games live this week, because if I allowed myself to revert to my old Night Owl ways, I'd never recover. So I woke up this morning and swore off all NFL sites, this thread included, and watched the games with some suspense to them.

An hour before the Titans/Panthers kickoff, Gmail notified me that the Titans won. Dagnabbit. But upon seeing the game, well, there was only one pro team on the field, so I quit watching at halftime. The Panthers have two QBs crippled up, and Carr sucks. Both RBs are equally shellshocked and gunshy, so bye bye. And Wahl, who stepped on Vinny's foot and aggravated his arthritis, wasn't even blocking for Carr. Out! Then they'll have a team with talent and heart.

An hour before the kickoff of the greatest regular season game ever, bad officiating and all, Gmail notified me that the Patriots won. <deleted>!! I saw two defenses who were sick of hearing about what they were up against, and I saw two teams where every single player was a gifted athlete who never quit. Those early Colts FGs have to be haunting somebody. Those officials were nuzzling the home team a bit. I watched the whole thing thinking the Colts outplayed the Pats a little bit but knowing just how dangerous the Pats are, and I'd have thought all that without Gmail's crap. My heart's still pounding.

And lemme say it. Did the Patroits run up the scores in the games before this one? I never thought so, for the same reason I don't think "running up the score" happens in the NFL. I think opportunities to see what you can do against any NFL team's A-team, when the games count and they want to stop you with all they've got, are so rare that you have to take them all. In other words, the Pats were practicing for what they had to do to win this game. If that bugs somebody from the losing team, go play in another league or stock grocery store shelves.

Either team could have won this. That's what makes it great. And when they meet again in the AFC Championship -- if you think otherwise you've drank too much Beer Chang again -- either team can win regardless of where they play. Just a thrilling, thrilling game.

In another blinding flash of the obvious, whoever wins this AFC Championship won't see my Panthers in the Super Bowl. First time I've seen them all year. I think I can go without seeing them again this year. But if I'm not mistaken, I still have my very orange James Wilder jersey around here somewhere.

[CalicoConsulting]

I think most of the public considers the Patriots 2007 a team with an asterisk attached to its name

Interesting. I think most of the public is laughing at how stupid the so-called controversy is. And I'm a Panthers homer, in case you missed it. The Patriots beat us in a Super Bowl. If I could go back in time and do a Tonya Harding on Tom Brady's knees, I would. And then I'd nail Kerry Collins just out of spite.

When I hear about how much time and effort is spent on SpyGate, versus how little it matters to anything at all, I have flashbacks to my days on the Board of the Chiangmai Expats Club. I'm still very much a part of that organization, but I renamed their Google Group "Much Ado About Nothing" for a reason. That's what this Patriot videotaping business is. Much Ado About Nothing.

Meanwhile, if Belichick has some new video footage of Manning poutily pounding the turf after his fourth-quarter fumble, I hope he puts it on YouTube.

[Padkapow Guy]

Mauiguy

I think this cheating thing got blown way out of proportion by the media. You are having the priveledge of watching one of the greatest teams in the history of the NFL. The bottom line is the players still have to take the field and play the game.

I don't think that the Pats are going to miss you support. I am a STEELERS fan , but I have enough common sense to recognize greatness when I see it. It's fine to have a favorite team but if you love the game you have to appreciate the way the Pats are playing right now.

Part of me is hopeing that the Pats will go in the tank the rest of the year so that the STEELERS of the 70's can remain the greatest team ever. Right now the Pats are making a case for themselves to take over that Title.

You have heard of AMAZING THAILAND!

You are wacthing the AMAZING PATRIOTS!

btw

STEELERS ROCK!

PKG

[mauiguy90]

Mauiguy

I think this cheating thing got blown way out of proportion by the media. You are having the priveledge of watching one of the greatest teams in the history of the NFL. The bottom line is the players still have to take the field and play the game.

I don't think that the Pats are going to miss you support. I am a STEELERS fan , but I have enough common sense to recognize greatness when I see it. It's fine to have a favorite team but if you love the game you have to appreciate the way the Pats are playing right now.

Part of me is hopeing that the Pats will go in the tank the rest of the year so that the STEELERS of the 70's can remain the greatest team ever. Right now the Pats are making a case for themselves to take over that Title.

You have heard of AMAZING THAILAND!

You are wacthing the AMAZING PATRIOTS!

btw

STEELERS ROCK!

PKG

***NE Pats

Edited November 6, 2007 by mauiguy90

[Old Man River]

And lemme say it. Did the Patroits run up the scores in the games before this one? I never thought so, for the same reason I don't think "running up the score" happens in the NFL. I think opportunities to see what you can do against any NFL team's A-team, when the games count and they want to stop you with all they've got, are so rare that you have to take them all. In other words, the Pats were practicing for what they had to do to win this game. If that bugs somebody from the losing team, go play in another league or stock grocery store shelves.

As fans, we have different perspectives than players and coaches. In pro sports there are unwritten rules (codes of ethics) and running up the score is against this code of ethics. It has nothing to do with having someone stocking grocery shelves, but rather with the way the game is played. Since the claims are coming from other team's coaches and players, I am sure they will get it sorted out.

[Old Man River]

As has been the case in so many of the Patriots come back wins during the Belichick era, the key to the Patriots win yesterday was the coaching staff's ability to make adjustments to counteract the aspect of the opponents game that has been giving them trouble.

You know that Addai had over 100 yards both rushing and receiving, right. Well, I went through the play-by-play test on ESPN, and found that his totals in the 2nd half were 32 yards rushing, and 7 yards receiving. How's that for adjusting? That was the single biggest reason why the Patriots were able to come back and win this game. They took away the Colts most productive player, giving Brady the opportunity to do his thing offensively.

When Gonzales went down late in the first half it left Manning without both Gonzales and Harrison and really impacted the Colt's passing game. This allowed the Pats to close down on the Colt's running game in the second half as well as to bring more pressure on Manning, which they did with great effectiveness. The Pats did exactly what they should have done in the second half and won the game because of it.

It is interesting that whenever the Pats have a big game, Maroney is never a factor, but old man Faulk is (8 years as a RB in the NFL is a lot). Faulk has survived Corey Dillon and now Maroney and continues to be the key go to guy for tough yards or as a receiver out of the backfield in pressure situations. He is truly a double threat (as Addai is becoming).

Patsfangr, I taped the game and isolated the calls you mentioned and really can't say anything different. Assuredly, there was no offensive PI on Moss and there was a hold on Faulk. The play on Faulk was on a third and 20 and while he had running room, there was a defender closing down on him and he had no blockers in sight. On that one, he probably would not have made the first down, but then we will never know.

The play I thought was unbelievable by the officials is when Moorehead (Colts) caught a pass on the sideline and he was ruled in bounds (it was overturned when Belichick challenged it). There was one official standing immediately in front of the play and one immediately behind the play and both had unimpeded views. It was impossible for either of them to miss this call, but they both did. The "Commish" should be embarrassed to have this crew on the field.

[patsfangr]

As has been the case in so many of the Patriots come back wins during the Belichick era, the key to the Patriots win yesterday was the coaching staff's ability to make adjustments to counteract the aspect of the opponents game that has been giving them trouble.

You know that Addai had over 100 yards both rushing and receiving, right. Well, I went through the play-by-play test on ESPN, and found that his totals in the 2nd half were 32 yards rushing, and 7 yards receiving. How's that for adjusting? That was the single biggest reason why the Patriots were able to come back and win this game. They took away the Colts most productive player, giving Brady the opportunity to do his thing offensively.

When Gonzales went down late in the first half it left Manning without both Gonzales and Harrison and really impacted the Colt's passing game. This allowed the Pats to close down on the Colt's running game in the second half as well as to bring more pressure on Manning, which they did with great effectiveness. The Pats did exactly what they should have done in the second half and won the game because of it.

It is interesting that whenever the Pats have a big game, Maroney is never a factor, but old man Faulk is (8 years as a RB in the NFL is a lot). Faulk has survived Corey Dillon and now Maroney and continues to be the key go to guy for tough yards or as a receiver out of the backfield in pressure situations. He is truly a double threat (as Addai is becoming).

Patsfangr, I taped the game and isolated the calls you mentioned and really can't say anything different. Assuredly, there was no offensive PI on Moss and there was a hold on Faulk. The play on Faulk was on a third and 20 and while he had running room, there was a defender closing down on him and he had no blockers in sight. On that one, he probably would not have made the first down, but then we will never know.

The play I thought was unbelievable by the officials is when Moorehead (Colts) caught a pass on the sideline and he was ruled in bounds (it was overturned when Belichick challenged it). There was one official standing immediately in front of the play and one immediately behind the play and both had unimpeded views. It was impossible for either of them to miss this call, but they both did. The "Commish" should be embarrassed to have this crew on the field.

Ahh, but what you're missing on that Faulk play, OMR, is that if the call was made for Defensive Holding had been made, as it should have, that carries with it an automatic First Down! It would have been Patriots ball, 1st & 10, at the Colts 35; instead of 4th down, and a punt. Huge difference!

[Old Man River]

As has been the case in so many of the Patriots come back wins during the Belichick era, the key to the Patriots win yesterday was the coaching staff's ability to make adjustments to counteract the aspect of the opponents game that has been giving them trouble.

You know that Addai had over 100 yards both rushing and receiving, right. Well, I went through the play-by-play test on ESPN, and found that his totals in the 2nd half were 32 yards rushing, and 7 yards receiving. How's that for adjusting? That was the single biggest reason why the Patriots were able to come back and win this game. They took away the Colts most productive player, giving Brady the opportunity to do his thing offensively.

When Gonzales went down late in the first half it left Manning without both Gonzales and Harrison and really impacted the Colt's passing game. This allowed the Pats to close down on the Colt's running game in the second half as well as to bring more pressure on Manning, which they did with great effectiveness. The Pats did exactly what they should have done in the second half and won the game because of it.

It is interesting that whenever the Pats have a big game, Maroney is never a factor, but old man Faulk is (8 years as a RB in the NFL is a lot). Faulk has survived Corey Dillon and now Maroney and continues to be the key go to guy for tough yards or as a receiver out of the backfield in pressure situations. He is truly a double threat (as Addai is becoming).

Patsfangr, I taped the game and isolated the calls you mentioned and really can't say anything different. Assuredly, there was no offensive PI on Moss and there was a hold on Faulk. The play on Faulk was on a third and 20 and while he had running room, there was a defender closing down on him and he had no blockers in sight. On that one, he probably would not have made the first down, but then we will never know.

The play I thought was unbelievable by the officials is when Moorehead (Colts) caught a pass on the sideline and he was ruled in bounds (it was overturned when Belichick challenged it). There was one official standing immediately in front of the play and one immediately behind the play and both had unimpeded views. It was impossible for either of them to miss this call, but they both did. The "Commish" should be embarrassed to have this crew on the field.

Ahh, but what you're missing on that Faulk play, OMR, is that if the call was made for Defensive Holding had been made, as it should have, that carries with it an automatic First Down! It would have been Patriots ball, 1st & 10, at the Colts 35; instead of 4th down, and a punt. Huge difference!

You are right, I did miss that.

[Padkapow Guy]

Mauiguy

I think this cheating thing got blown way out of proportion by the media. You are having the priveledge of watching one of the greatest teams in the history of the NFL. The bottom line is the players still have to take the field and play the game.

I don't think that the Pats are going to miss you support. I am a STEELERS fan , but I have enough common sense to recognize greatness when I see it. It's fine to have a favorite team but if you love the game you have to appreciate the way the Pats are playing right now.

Part of me is hopeing that the Pats will go in the tank the rest of the year so that the STEELERS of the 70's can remain the greatest team ever. Right now the Pats are making a case for themselves to take over that Title.

You have heard of AMAZING THAILAND!

You are wacthing the AMAZING PATRIOTS!

btw

STEELERS ROCK!

PKG

***NE Pats

I do appreciate the humor!

[Padkapow Guy]

How about them STEELERS!

Com'on guys , show alittle love here.

The Blitzburgh defense stompt a mud hole in the ravens offense and walked it dry.

You got to be a little worried George.

STEELERS ROCK

PKG

[dclaryjr]

I can understand hometown support of the Patriots, however, I think most of the public considers the Patriots 2007 a team with an asterisk attached to its name, whatever the outcome of this season may be. Sorry if I'm ruffling a few feathers here but the Pats brought it on themselves.

I don't think much of the public gives a <deleted> about Spygate. They do think, however, that their propensity to run up the score is rather classless.

[mackayae]

I can understand hometown support of the Patriots, however, I think most of the public considers the Patriots 2007 a team with an asterisk attached to its name, whatever the outcome of this season may be. Sorry if I'm ruffling a few feathers here but the Pats brought it on themselves.

That's what Don Shula suggested. But I don't think it will happen.

[CalicoConsulting]

All Don Shula cares about is his perfect season.

The Patriots, meanwhile, need to remember that the NFL has teams like Pittsburgh in it too. I'm sure Belichick won't let them forget. Y'know, Baltimore used to be a scary team. I guess they could be again, but apparently not against the Steelers. Wow.

And Panthers... I think it was Don Banks who said it was time to park the Carr and hide the keys. Play Vinny or the rookie, and laugh at the Vikings for talking to Weinke.

[patsfangr]

How about them STEELERS!

Com'on guys , show alittle love here.

The Blitzburgh defense stompt a mud hole in the ravens offense and walked it dry.

You got to be a little worried George.

STEELERS ROCK

PKG

Indeed, PKG. The Steelers are for real. They're a dam_n good football team, and no Pats fan in his right mind would assume an easy victory over them, even in Foxboro. I believe the Pats win, of course. But I do not believe it will be "over" after 3 Quarters. They'll have to play all 60 minutes, just as they did against the Colts.

[patsfangr]

I can understand hometown support of the Patriots, however, I think most of the public considers the Patriots 2007 a team with an asterisk attached to its name, whatever the outcome of this season may be. Sorry if I'm ruffling a few feathers here but the Pats brought it on themselves.

I don't think much of the public gives a <deleted> about Spygate. They do think, however, that their propensity to run up the score is rather classless.

As the Patriots won 3 Super Bowls, the naysayers were claiming that they weren't that good, because they never won big. Now, with, IMO, a definite "I got your cheating RIGHT HERE!" attitude, they score big, and they're "classless".

Does anybody remember the 2006 AFC Championship game? The Patriots led the Colts by 18 points going into the 4th Quarter. Who won the game? You do NOT let up in the NFL until you can kneel down, and run out the clock, as the Pats did in Indy this week. Look back at some of the great comebacks in the history of the game. You'll see several of them in which a team came back from more than 4 TDs back to win the game. One more time - You do NOT let up in the NFL until it is IMPOSSIBLE for the other team to come back and win it. That's "IMPOSSIBLE"; not "unlikely". Does a boxer stop punching until the referee steps in? Does a baseball team stop scoring runs when they reach a 10 run lead? Does a hockey team stop scoring goals when they're up b 5?

If the game is out of reach, let the losing team forfeit. Then the winners will stop scoring. Otherwise, you play to keep the ball moving by whatever is your most effective style, just as the losing team continues to do.

[patsfangr]

I can understand hometown support of the Patriots, however, I think most of the public considers the Patriots 2007 a team with an asterisk attached to its name, whatever the outcome of this season may be. Sorry if I'm ruffling a few feathers here but the Pats brought it on themselves.

That's what Don Shula suggested. But I don't think it will happen.

Don Shula was a great Head Coach. I had nothing but respect for him, and his great Dolphins teams. But this remark was just plain stupid, as well as self-serving. How can the 2007 team have an "asterisk" when the so-called "cheating" was stopped before the end of the first half of the first game of the season? Shame on Shula for this one.

[Old Man River]

How about them STEELERS!

Com'on guys , show alittle love here.

The Blitzburgh defense stompt a mud hole in the ravens offense and walked it dry.

You got to be a little worried George.

STEELERS ROCK

PKG

Indeed, PKG. The Steelers are for real. They're a dam_n good football team, and no Pats fan in his right mind would assume an easy victory over them, even in Foxboro. I believe the Pats win, of course. But I do not believe it will be "over" after 3 Quarters. They'll have to play all 60 minutes, just as they did against the Colts.

The Steelers do look good this year, but then it is hard to explain how they could have been beaten by Denver (3 and 5) and Arizona (3 and 5). It seems like they lose focus against some of the easier teams they should destroy. This is something they will have to watch as apart from New England and maybe Jacksonville, their schedule is relatively easy with several cream puffs along the way. If they do keep their focus, regardless of what they do against NE, they will be dangerous come playoff time.

[dclaryjr]

As the Patriots won 3 Super Bowls, the naysayers were claiming that they weren't that good, because they never won big. Now, with, IMO, a definite "I got your cheating RIGHT HERE!" attitude, they score big, and they're "classless".

Let me amend my original statement. The public AND NUMEROUS former players and coaches think that it's classless. I watch a variety of sports shows and that was the almost universal statement from those who played the game. Your arguments might fly up to the Washington game, but not after that.

[Old Man River]

As the Patriots won 3 Super Bowls, the naysayers were claiming that they weren't that good, because they never won big. Now, with, IMO, a definite "I got your cheating RIGHT HERE!" attitude, they score big, and they're "classless".

Let me amend my original statement. The public AND NUMEROUS former players and coaches think that it's classless. I watch a variety of sports shows and that was the almost universal statement from those who played the game. Your arguments might fly up to the Washington game, but not after that.

I tried to make this point in an earlier posting. There is an unwritten code of ethics in most pro sports and it doesn't matter what the public thinks. The players and coaches that are directly involved in the game normally sort this out themselves.

[mauiguy90]

Mauiguy

I think this cheating thing got blown way out of proportion by the media. You are having the priveledge of watching one of the greatest teams in the history of the NFL. The bottom line is the players still have to take the field and play the game.

I don't think that the Pats are going to miss you support. I am a STEELERS fan , but I have enough common sense to recognize greatness when I see it. It's fine to have a favorite team but if you love the game you have to appreciate the way the Pats are playing right now.

PKG

***NE Pats

I do appreciate the humor!

PKG,

Glad u liked the punctuation! Interesting thing is that the one NFL team that is willing to speak openly about the Patriots cheating is the Steelers. That includes both players and coaches. Part of that "greatness" you speak of has come at the expense of the Steelers.

Comments from Hines Ward, Pittsburgh wide receiver:

In Pittsburgh, wide receiver Hines Ward said he suspected New England also had deciphered the Steelers' offensive plans during the January 2002 AFC championship game.

"They knew a lot of our calls," Ward said. "There's no question some of their players were calling out some of our stuff."

The Patriots won that game in an upset, 24-17, and went on to win the first in their string of Super Bowls.

"You would hope that during their run, when they were winning all their Super Bowls, all that stuff wasn't going on," Ward said. "You look back in the past, and we played them in the championship games, and you kind of wonder. It seemed like they were a step ahead of us at all times..."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl...=la-home-center

Steelers assistant coaches say privately that New England coach Bill Belichick has illegally used cameras to spy on opposing coaches flashing signals from the sideline for years, even when he was coach of the Cleveland Browns...New Steelers coach Mike Tomlin did not outright accuse New England of cheating, but said that the rumors have been around and "where there is smoke, there's fire."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07255/816713-66.stm

Comments regarding Pittsburgh coaches re: NE Cheating (Pittsburgh Post Gazette)

http://robertbluey.com/blog/2007/09/12/onl...efend-cheating/

PKG, These are comments directly from Steeler's players and coaches. This is not the team a die hard Steelers fan should defend.

Edited November 9, 2007 by mauiguy90

[Padkapow Guy]

Mauiguy

I think this cheating thing got blown way out of proportion by the media. You are having the priveledge of watching one of the greatest teams in the history of the NFL. The bottom line is the players still have to take the field and play the game.

I don't think that the Pats are going to miss you support. I am a STEELERS fan , but I have enough common sense to recognize greatness when I see it. It's fine to have a favorite team but if you love the game you have to appreciate the way the Pats are playing right now.

PKG

***NE Pats

I do appreciate the humor!

PKG,

Glad u liked the punctuation! Interesting thing is that the one NFL team that is willing to speak openly about the Patriots cheating is the Steelers. That includes both players and coaches. Part of that "greatness" you speak of has come at the expense of the Steelers.

Comments from Hines Ward, Pittsburgh wide receiver:

In Pittsburgh, wide receiver Hines Ward said he suspected New England also had deciphered the Steelers' offensive plans during the January 2002 AFC championship game.

"They knew a lot of our calls," Ward said. "There's no question some of their players were calling out some of our stuff."

The Patriots won that game in an upset, 24-17, and went on to win the first in their string of Super Bowls.

"You would hope that during their run, when they were winning all their Super Bowls, all that stuff wasn't going on," Ward said. "You look back in the past, and we played them in the championship games, and you kind of wonder. It seemed like they were a step ahead of us at all times..."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl...=la-home-center

Steelers assistant coaches say privately that New England coach Bill Belichick has illegally used cameras to spy on opposing coaches flashing signals from the sideline for years, even when he was coach of the Cleveland Browns...New Steelers coach Mike Tomlin did not outright accuse New England of cheating, but said that the rumors have been around and "where there is smoke, there's fire."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07255/816713-66.stm

Comments regarding Pittsburgh coaches re: NE Cheating (Pittsburgh Post Gazette)

http://robertbluey.com/blog/2007/09/12/onl...efend-cheating/

PKG, These are comments directly from Steeler's players and coaches. This is not the team a die hard Steelers fan should defend.

I am not saying that the Pats did not do what they are accused of, I was saying that the players still have to go out and play the game no matter what the coaches did. Just because I am a steeler fan does not mean I can not appreciate greatness from an rival team when I see it. No matter what information a coach gives the players, they still have to go out and play the game.

excellent job on the finding the quotes. I did not know that is what Ward and the other Steelers were saying. I live about a 1/2 hour south of Greenbay and the frozen tundra of Lambeau field, so I do not get all the local scoop from the steel town papers. Quotes aside I still think the Pats could be one of the greatest team to play the game.

STEELERS ROCK

PKG

[mauiguy90]

I am not saying that the Pats did not do what they are accused of, I was saying that the players still have to go out and play the game no matter what the coaches did. Just because I am a steeler fan does not mean I can not appreciate greatness from an rival team when I see it. No matter what information a coach gives the players, they still have to go out and play the game.

excellent job on the finding the quotes. I did not know that is what Ward and the other Steelers were saying. I live about a 1/2 hour south of Greenbay and the frozen tundra of Lambeau field, so I do not get all the local scoop from the steel town papers. Quotes aside I still think the Pats could be one of the greatest team to play the game.

STEELERS ROCK

PKG

The same LA Times article quoted previously, states:

A rival coach, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Patriots quarterback Brady would be at a "huge advantage" if he were to know the coverage scheme called by an opposing defense.

"If a quarterback knows the signal, and if a coach can get on the headset and tell Tom Brady, 'Oh, by the way, it's Cover 2,' Brady's going to kick their tail," the source said.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl...=la-home-center

To make an analogy, this is the same thing as having the questions to a test. Yes, you still have to take the test and yes, you still have to play the game. Yet, doesn't it make the whole thing ten times easier???

P.S. Thanks for the acknowledgement. Its not that hard to find this stuff. I do believe, as other posters, that what the coaches and players have to say are most relevant even though most seem very reluctant to say anything.

Edited November 9, 2007 by mauiguy90

[patsfangr]

The same LA Times article quoted previously, states:

A rival coach, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Patriots quarterback Brady would be at a "huge advantage" if he were to know the coverage scheme called by an opposing defense.

"If a quarterback knows the signal, and if a coach can get on the headset and tell Tom Brady, 'Oh, by the way, it's Cover 2,' Brady's going to kick their tail," the source said.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl...=la-home-center

To make an analogy, this is the same thing as having the questions to a test. Yes, you still have to take the test and yes, you still have to play the game. Yet, doesn't it make the whole thing ten times easier???

P.S. Thanks for the acknowledgement. Its not that hard to find this stuff. I do believe, as other posters, that what the coaches and players have to say are most relevant even though most seem very reluctant to say anything.

Surely, you are aware that for every coach, former coach, player, and former player, who claims that:

A. The Patriots accomplishments are "tainted" by the videotaping of signals from an restricted area of the stadium ..

-- There is at least an equal number (Madden, Howie Long, Mike Martz) who have said that, while it broke a specific restriction on location, most coaches steal signals to the best of their ability; and very little is actually gained by it in a game.

B. It is a natural human, or at least, American, instinct to want to see the top guy brought down, unless you're personally attached, in some way. It's true in politics, in the movie and TV business, in corporate business, AND in professional sports. ..

-- Many of the opinions expressed by those speaking out against the Patriots are motivated by a that instinct - that combination of jealousy and envy, with which I acknowledge that I am very familiar, having been a Red Sox fan, at the feet of the Yankees, for many, many years.

c. Have you been watching any football this season? Has it slipped by you that the Patriots, without the use of "illegal videotape", are kicking the crap out of every team they play (except the combined team of the Colts and the John Parry officiating crew!)? Do not understand that Brady's ability to read coverages, both before and DURING plays, that may be the best of any QB that has every played the game? He sees. He reads. He drops back, continuing to read as he does. He sees the entire field, and, nearly always, knows where there will be an open receiver for him to throw to. If you don't understand that, listen to the announcers during his games; and to the analysts doing the highlight shows after the games. Again, there is no videotape involved. It is Tom Brady making those adjustments; and everybody who knows the game, and has any reasonable degree of objectivity, acknowledges that.

Bill Belichick, for reasons known only to him, defied the NFL rule against taping defensive signals from the field. There are, as has been documented countless times, several other, equally effective ways to "steal signals"; including having coaches in the box upstairs pick them up with binoculars, take notes, and/or pass them downstairs verbally IMMEDIATELY, no wait for tape. Nearly every team in the NFL does that, according to coaches such as Madden, Parcells, and even Cowher. It's really time for people who are genuine fans of the NFL game to drop the jealousy and envy, and acknowledge and enjoy the performance of the team that is approaching, as PKG said, earning the title as the greatest team in the history of the game. If they do achieve an undefeated, 19-0 season this year, they will have done just that. And videotape has absolutely nothing to do with it.

As for running up the score, I have no doubt that they are doing so. If I were Bill Belichick, or Tom Brady, and you had questioned both my integrity and talent, would I do it? You bet your ASSterisk, I would! There's an almost audible "I got your videotape right HERE!" in every one of those late TDs!

[Old Man River]

As for running up the score, I have no doubt that they are doing so. If I were Bill Belichick, or Tom Brady, and you had questioned both my integrity and talent, would I do it? You bet your ASSterisk, I would! There's an almost audible "I got your videotape right HERE!" in every one of those late TDs!

Patsfangr, perhaps from Belichick's standpoint you are right, but Belichick doesn't own the team. If ethical standards are not adhered to by coaches, then owners get involved. As it pertains to the Patriots, I would imagine owners are discussing this issue with Mr. Kraft, who did not support Belichicks' taping activities and most probably doesn't support his "I got your videotape right HERE" attitude.

[patsfangr]

As for running up the score, I have no doubt that they are doing so. If I were Bill Belichick, or Tom Brady, and you had questioned both my integrity and talent, would I do it? You bet your ASSterisk, I would! There's an almost audible "I got your videotape right HERE!" in every one of those late TDs!

Patsfangr, perhaps from Belichick's standpoint you are right, but Belichick doesn't own the team. If ethical standards are not adhered to by coaches, then owners get involved. As it pertains to the Patriots, I would imagine owners are discussing this issue with Mr. Kraft, who did not support Belichicks' taping activities and most probably doesn't support his "I got your videotape right HERE" attitude.

I understand your point, OMR; but I don't necessarily agree with it. Kraft certainly couldn't acknowledge that he had any knowledge of the videotaping process, whether or not he did; nor could he do anything other than deny support of it. No one outside of the team can be certain about that.

Even if he had no knowledge of it, the fact is that it was a violation of NFL rules. Nobody, including me, can deny that Belichick deserved to be punished for that. What is at issue is the claim that this particular violation of a rule truly "taints" the accomplishments of the team since Belichick was hired in 2000. There are mixed opinions on that among objective observers within the NFL community of players, coaches, and, I would assume, owners, as well.

As is the case with the question of Kraft's awareness and/or approval of the taping, no one outside of his inner circle can possibly know his true feelings about the claims by some that the accomplishments of the team that he has spent millions of dollars to build are "tainted" by that rule violation. It is entirely possilble that he would share the "I got your videotape right HERE!" attitude. Do you think that his money and position exclude him from experiencing the same level of emotional resentment and anger that players, coaches, and fans feel?

Don't forget that Bob Kraft has been, as I have been, a dedicated fan of the Patriots since the team was created in 1960. He, too, waited for 41 years to see the Patriots win a league championship. Having the validity of that, and the 2 succeeding championships, questioned; after the many, many years of disappointment that all Patriots fans endured, is, I'm certain, as emotionally painful to him as it is to me, and other long time Patriots fans. This Head Coach, this QB, this team, EARNED every one of those championships with their intelligence, dedication, teamwork, and individual skills. All of those people, and, I would submit to you, the owner, as well, are hurt and angered by the small minded, jealous, envious people who want to detract from that.

As I said, I can't be any more certain of Bob Kraft's feelings than you can. But I think the history of his feelings for this team, and the acknowledgement of basic human nature, point more toward my theory, than they do toward yours.

There is obviously no rule against a team scoring as many points as it can. The reasons for violating the "unwritten code" that normally limits that are, in this case, very obvious. Whether or not people would admit it, I believe that the vast majority of fans, given the competitive nature of most fans, would feel exactly the same way, if it were their favorite team in this situation. Clearly, that's a moot point; so don't bother to post denials. Just look inside yourself, with as much objectivity as you can muster, and face the truth on that point.

[mauiguy90]

"A. The Patriots accomplishments are "tainted" by the videotaping of signals from an restricted area of the stadium .....and very little is actually gained by it in a game. "

"...Bill Belichick, for reasons known only to him, defied the NFL rule against taping defensive signals from the field. "

My point is, so why do it then?...

To win maybe???

B. It is a natural human, or at least, American, instinct to want to see the top guy brought down, unless you're personally attached, in some way.

My point is, you are personally attached, in a large way. I don't think that anyone could convince you that what they did was wrong, was cheating and gave them an unfair advantage over other teams.

My question is, what would it take?

c. Have you been watching any football this season? Has it slipped by you that the Patriots, without the use of "illegal videotape", are kicking the crap out of every team they play (except the combined team of the Colts and the John Parry officiating crew!)?

I am not disputing the fact that the Patriots are an excellent team. I am questioning why an excellent team like the Patriots feel they have to cheat to win.

In addition, is it just possible that the Patriots have tapes of the coaching signals of many if not all of the teams in the league that they have not turned over to the league office? (Of course not! And of course, such tapes would not be useful in gaining a competitive advantage over other teams!)

As for running up the score, I have not addressed this issue myself. I am in agreement with other posters about the Patriots running up the score being "classless". It is no surprise that a coach that resorts to cheating thinks nothing of running up the score.

In addition, the justification for running up the score being that team/players questioned "If I were Bill Belichick... and you had questioned .. my integrity...", is laughable. Belichick has no integrity.

(Brady's integrity or talent is not in question here.)

I've included some You Tube links that are both fascinating and funny:

You Tube: Letterman on Patriots Cheating

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN0FMGuc1gs

You Tube: Patriots CHEATING Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn9jXpxMivY

And there's more...

Have a beer and relax! Its all entertainment anyway right?

P.S. When playing the You Tube videos, it is sometimes better to let it play through once, then replay it to get a continuous video feed.

Edited November 10, 2007 by mauiguy90

[mauiguy90]

Here is Fox Sports take on the NE Patriots(***) spy video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn9jXpxMivY

National Lampoon also has its own play by play version of the Patriots spy video:

We are missing a lot of fun stuff in the U.S. but living in Thailand is worth it, right!!!

Sometimes I have to remind myself that ITS JUST TV...

[dclaryjr]

As for running up the score, I have no doubt that they are doing so. If I were Bill Belichick, or Tom Brady, and you had questioned both my integrity and talent, would I do it? You bet your ASSterisk, I would! There's an almost audible "I got your videotape right HERE!" in every one of those late TDs!

Well you certainly have changed your tune. What happened to the "they have to score to keep the other team from coming back" defense? Now you admit the obvious.

[mauiguy90]

Fox Sports produced a showed explaining how the Patriots filmed and used the infamous SpyGate video. You can see it at the following link:

Fox Sports: Cheaters NE Patriots spy video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn9jXpxMivY

Things are getting bad when T.O. gets in on the act:

Terrell Owens Spy Camera Dance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKFP4g5IH6A...ell_Owens_Dance

Lots of funny stuff regarding Spygate on the internet!

[patsfangr]

BROWNS @ STEELERS at 1:00 AM

Hey, PKG, did you see the schedule change? The TrueV mag lists the Bengals @ Ravens game as the first game tonight. That game has been switched by the networks to a 4:05 start. So the TrueV website now lists the Browns @ Steelers game for broadcast at 1:00 AM.

This is a real "are you for real" test for Romeo Crennel's Browns. They've surprised nearly everybody this season with their 5-3 record. However, when we look at that more carefully, it may well be a mirage. They were destroyed by the Steelers, 7-34, in the opening game in Cleveland. Their other 2 losses were at the hands of the Raiders, in Oakland, 24-26; and the Patriots, in NE, 17-34. Their 5 wins were against the Bengals, Ravens, Dolphins, Rams, and Seahawks. That's an interesting mix of the hapless (Dolphins and Rams), the hopeless (Bengals), and the disappointing (Ravens and Seahawks).

But they have certainly looked much better, offensively, since Derek Anderson replace Charlie Frye at QB. This could be interesting.

I'm planning another overnighter to watch this one; followed by the Cowboys at the Giants on TrueVisions; then the Colts at the Chargers on the internet. Could be 3 very good games, with the obvious favorites being the Steelers, Cowboys, and Colts; but all 3 underdogs having the potential to make a fight of it. Personally, I'll be rooting for the underdogs in all of these games. Wins by the Browns and Chargers would greatly improve the Patriots situation for HFA. And I hate the Jerry Jones Cowboys.