Why US Pornmakers Remain Unfazed By Thailand’s ‘Tough Stance’ On The Exploitation Of Women

[surangw]

• Every 39 minutes: a new pornographic video is being created in the United States.

wow, those actors must have some real Stamina

[SergeiY]

1. He had signed release forms. That was never an issue.

2. Estimates are he made around 35 million baht from his productions.

3. He is not locked up.

4. All references to his case have been removed from Pattaya newspapers.

This of course has all been mentioned before in this thread.

The number 2 quote above is a great mystery to me.

How do these porn producers actually make money?

I mean, it only needs one person to buy the DVD, then upload it on-line onto a website so everyone can view it for free and that`s it, nobody need purchase the thing.

So how does porn actually make money?

Same with music, movies, software and all the stuff you can download in the internet. Some people don't mind to pay for it and don't go for pirate copies even if you can download them for free. Not everyone is a cheap charly.

Edited November 24, 2010 by SergeiY

[Beetlejuice]

/quote]

Are you really that naive? The pornography industry has larger revenues than Microsoft, Google, Amazon, eBay, Yahoo, Apple and Netflix combined.

Pornography Time Statistics

• Every second - $3,075.64 is being spent on pornography.

• Every second - 28,258 internet users are viewing pornography.

• Every second - 372 internet users are typing adult search terms into search engines.

• Every 39 minutes: a new pornographic video is being created in the United States.

Yes, I really am that naive, not ever being involved in the porn industry. But I do appreciate your reply which is informative.

So perhaps its as one poster quoted, that many do prefer to buy good quality copies and also judging by the statistics you mention, that money is earned from advertisers on those large scale viewed websites, even if the porn is free to watch.

Suppose it`s a mixture of everything, all big business.

[LaoPo]

Are you really that naive? The pornography industry has larger revenues than Microsoft, Google, Amazon, eBay, Yahoo, Apple and Netflix combined.

Pornography Time Statistics

• Every second - $3,075.64 is being spent on pornography.

• Every second - 28,258 internet users are viewing pornography.

• Every second - 372 internet users are typing adult search terms into search engines.

• Every 39 minutes: a new pornographic video is being created in the United States.

...says the: Preserving Family Values in a Media Driven Society

http://www.familysaf...statistics.html

And, when they warn society about Porn.......it must be true.

LaoPo

[yellow1red1]

so... he has a friend in high places! same/same Friend of the owner of a Yellow Hummer? perchance.

--- speaking of hummers that is............. hardy har har

[Lammbock]

But anyway...where can i find Lulu in Pattaya? She is smoking hot!

[mkawish]

Just a case of everyone exploiting everyone else. The girls end up at the bottom of the pile, but I doubt they could be described as an 'innocent' party.

If they had not consented then they are 'innocent' - if they consented to being filmed and those films being distributed and money made from those films sale (and assuming they got a hefty fee) then, yes, they are not 'innocent'. It 'appears' they had not consented and even those at the 'bottom' deserve respect in my opinion.

You are the man with a heart.

I salute you also from my heart.

May you live long and be forever blessed with generosity and wisdom as well.

[mkawish]

There is a certain inevitability to all this. Opportunities for women in Thailand (as elsewhere) are limited. Prostitution may not be legal or socially acceptable, but it provides women with much more money than they'll ever get working in a factory or a paddy field. It may pay well but it remains a business with considerable risks, not just health-related. The kind of men or sex-tourists the prostitutes meet are not going to be very interested in 'face' (of the cultural kind) or any other kind of human and social valence. These people will mostly regard the women as a commodity, something they can purchase and use for pleasure. The balance of power in this relation will be on the side of the purchaser, particularly if he is male and Western, not the purchased. We don't have to feel sorry for the 'girls' but we do have recognize the way they have been systematically (and systemically) stripped of history and agency, not just by this one man. At the very least, we ought to remember that all women, of whatever background or status, are or have been subject to the same process of denaturing.

LingLek

Your Thai name surely appears to represent you well--LingLek--LITTLE MONKEY. Isn't that what it means in English?

.

Well, you may not feel sorry for the girls, however many many of us on Thaivisa do feel very sorry for these girls.

I assume, all humans with some degree of humanity and compassion do feel sorry for some other humans or even some animals that suffer.... whether or not it is of their own doing or otherwise.

But then, on the other side of the universe, I also accept the fact that not all humans are born with human hearts and with human compassion.... as well.

More importantly, there are also many humans who enjoy the tasks of capitalizing on the less fortunates....

but I assume the majority of Thaivisa members do have some degree of justice and compassion in their hearts.

Even though, we feel sorry and heart broken for our fellow human beings

but we may not at the same time agree

or at peace with what they do

or with their opinion or their way of living. just imho.

[boggle]

The use of Proxy servers in Thailand is illegal, as I understood it, so if the vidoes can only be seen by there use all well and good.

Or so we would think?

[mark45y]

There is a certain inevitability to all this. Opportunities for women in Thailand (as elsewhere) are limited. Prostitution may not be legal or socially acceptable, but it provides women with much more money than they'll ever get working in a factory or a paddy field. It may pay well but it remains a business with considerable risks, not just health-related. The kind of men or sex-tourists the prostitutes meet are not going to be very interested in 'face' (of the cultural kind) or any other kind of human and social valence. These people will mostly regard the women as a commodity, something they can purchase and use for pleasure. The balance of power in this relation will be on the side of the purchaser, particularly if he is male and Western, not the purchased. We don't have to feel sorry for the 'girls' but we do have recognize the way they have been systematically (and systemically) stripped of history and agency, not just by this one man. At the very least, we ought to remember that all women, of whatever background or status, are or have been subject to the same process of denaturing.

Far more porn is made in America than anywhere else. You mean the women in America have limited opportunities?

[mark45y]

There is a certain inevitability to all this. Opportunities for women in Thailand (as elsewhere) are limited. Prostitution may not be legal or socially acceptable, but it provides women with much more money than they'll ever get working in a factory or a paddy field. It may pay well but it remains a business with considerable risks, not just health-related. The kind of men or sex-tourists the prostitutes meet are not going to be very interested in 'face' (of the cultural kind) or any other kind of human and social valence. These people will mostly regard the women as a commodity, something they can purchase and use for pleasure. The balance of power in this relation will be on the side of the purchaser, particularly if he is male and Western, not the purchased. We don't have to feel sorry for the 'girls' but we do have recognize the way they have been systematically (and systemically) stripped of history and agency, not just by this one man. At the very least, we ought to remember that all women, of whatever background or status, are or have been subject to the same process of denaturing.

LingLek

Your Thai name surely appears to represent you well--LingLek--LITTLE MONKEY. Isn't that what it means in English?

.

Well, you may not feel sorry for the girls, however many many of us on Thaivisa do feel very sorry for these girls.

I assume, all humans with some degree of humanity and compassion do feel sorry for some other humans or even some animals that suffer.... whether or not it is of their own doing or otherwise.

But then, on the other side of the universe, I also accept the fact that not all humans are born with human hearts and with human compassion.... as well.

More importantly, there are also many humans who enjoy the tasks of capitalizing on the less fortunates....

but I assume the majority of Thaivisa members do have some degree of justice and compassion in their hearts.

Even though, we feel sorry and heart broken for our fellow human beings

but we may not at the same time agree

or at peace with what they do

or with their opinion or their way of living. just imho.

Get a grip. They make 10,000 baht for a couple of hours work. How many on Thai Visa would not do that? Given, single and so on.

[mark45y]

The use of Proxy servers in Thailand is illegal, as I understood it, so if the vidoes can only be seen by there use all well and good.

Or so we would think?

You don't need a proxy he is all over the internet.

[ChiangMaiFun]

There is a certain inevitability to all this. Opportunities for women in Thailand (as elsewhere) are limited. Prostitution may not be legal or socially acceptable, but it provides women with much more money than they'll ever get working in a factory or a paddy field. It may pay well but it remains a business with considerable risks, not just health-related. The kind of men or sex-tourists the prostitutes meet are not going to be very interested in 'face' (of the cultural kind) or any other kind of human and social valence. These people will mostly regard the women as a commodity, something they can purchase and use for pleasure. The balance of power in this relation will be on the side of the purchaser, particularly if he is male and Western, not the purchased. We don't have to feel sorry for the 'girls' but we do have recognize the way they have been systematically (and systemically) stripped of history and agency, not just by this one man. At the very least, we ought to remember that all women, of whatever background or status, are or have been subject to the same process of denaturing.

LingLek

Your Thai name surely appears to represent you well--LingLek--LITTLE MONKEY. Isn't that what it means in English?

.

Well, you may not feel sorry for the girls, however many many of us on Thaivisa do feel very sorry for these girls.

I assume, all humans with some degree of humanity and compassion do feel sorry for some other humans or even some animals that suffer.... whether or not it is of their own doing or otherwise.

But then, on the other side of the universe, I also accept the fact that not all humans are born with human hearts and with human compassion.... as well.

More importantly, there are also many humans who enjoy the tasks of capitalizing on the less fortunates....

but I assume the majority of Thaivisa members do have some degree of justice and compassion in their hearts.

Even though, we feel sorry and heart broken for our fellow human beings

but we may not at the same time agree

or at peace with what they do

or with their opinion or their way of living. just imho.

Get a grip. They make 10,000 baht for a couple of hours work. How many on Thai Visa would not do that? Given, single and so on.

You would would you? get f****d on camera for 200 GBP 300 US? and then get all over the internet and DVDs - and you think many of us would? that is outrageous and warped. Have some compassion man for pity's sake - I am all for 'freedom' and am certainely very well aware that many girls do this for easy money - some even enjoy it. Many do not and even those that freely do it rarely have a free choice out of economic circumstance. There but for the Grace of God go I... do not lose your compassion.

edit: spl

Edited November 25, 2010 by ChiangMaiFun

[rwhoov]

Was this a news article or an editorial? It wasn't exactly an "unbiased" report was it? I'd say the truth is nowhere in sight.

It's a blog. Did you actually click on the link or just read the OP?

You're right; I didn't click on the link (I actually didn't see it!), I just read the OP and assumed it was an article. I did notice almost every reference in other postings referred to it as an article. Perhaps it could be better identified at the beginning? Thanks for the info!

[kuffki]

There is a certain inevitability to all this. Opportunities for women in Thailand (as elsewhere) are limited. Prostitution may not be legal or socially acceptable, but it provides women with much more money than they'll ever get working in a factory or a paddy field. It may pay well but it remains a business with considerable risks, not just health-related. The kind of men or sex-tourists the prostitutes meet are not going to be very interested in 'face' (of the cultural kind) or any other kind of human and social valence. These people will mostly regard the women as a commodity, something they can purchase and use for pleasure. The balance of power in this relation will be on the side of the purchaser, particularly if he is male and Western, not the purchased. We don't have to feel sorry for the 'girls' but we do have recognize the way they have been systematically (and systemically) stripped of history and agency, not just by this one man. At the very least, we ought to remember that all women, of whatever background or status, are or have been subject to the same process of denaturing.

LingLek

Your Thai name surely appears to represent you well--LingLek--LITTLE MONKEY. Isn't that what it means in English?

.

Well, you may not feel sorry for the girls, however many many of us on Thaivisa do feel very sorry for these girls.

I assume, all humans with some degree of humanity and compassion do feel sorry for some other humans or even some animals that suffer.... whether or not it is of their own doing or otherwise.

But then, on the other side of the universe, I also accept the fact that not all humans are born with human hearts and with human compassion.... as well.

More importantly, there are also many humans who enjoy the tasks of capitalizing on the less fortunates....

but I assume the majority of Thaivisa members do have some degree of justice and compassion in their hearts.

Even though, we feel sorry and heart broken for our fellow human beings

but we may not at the same time agree

or at peace with what they do

or with their opinion or their way of living. just imho.

Get a grip. They make 10,000 baht for a couple of hours work. How many on Thai Visa would not do that? Given, single and so on.

You would would you? get f****d on camera for 200 GBP 300 US? and then get all over the internet and DVDs - and you think many of us would? that is outrageous and warped. Have some compassion man for pity's sake - I am all for 'freedom' and am certainely very well aware that many girls do this for easy money - some even enjoy it. Many do not and even those that freely do it rarely have a free choice out of economic circumstance. There but for the Grace of God go I... do not lose your compassion.

edit: spl

I think you over reacting just a little.

These girls are not 9-5 girls but are working prostitutes.

They have sex with men for money, they dance naked in the bar and do many other things.

They have sex all night for 1000 baht(well in Pattaya) so 10 000 is pretty high pay.

Another debate is, feel sorry for them because they are forced into prostitution due to economic reasons, sorry but this is utter rubbish.They have chosen to do this for the sake of the money and i can give you the best example from my experience just the other day.

I had some friends visiting and one of them took a girl from the gogo. She was fun and spoke English. One of my staff just resigned(and her job was pretty easy, just to feed and walk my dogs) so i offered her a job paying 10 000 per month and she gets free room, so she only works 2-3 hours per day and night time can do whatever she likes.

So her salary and free room, is actually more then she is getting paid dancing naked and doing many other things for a 20 baht tip.

Her answer was-NO. She actually likes to spread her legs for everyone to see and prefers to do that, then to have a "normal" life.

Now this just one example for you, i can post another 100 and thats just from my life

[mark45y]

There is a certain inevitability to all this. Opportunities for women in Thailand (as elsewhere) are limited. Prostitution may not be legal or socially acceptable, but it provides women with much more money than they'll ever get working in a factory or a paddy field. It may pay well but it remains a business with considerable risks, not just health-related. The kind of men or sex-tourists the prostitutes meet are not going to be very interested in 'face' (of the cultural kind) or any other kind of human and social valence. These people will mostly regard the women as a commodity, something they can purchase and use for pleasure. The balance of power in this relation will be on the side of the purchaser, particularly if he is male and Western, not the purchased. We don't have to feel sorry for the 'girls' but we do have recognize the way they have been systematically (and systemically) stripped of history and agency, not just by this one man. At the very least, we ought to remember that all women, of whatever background or status, are or have been subject to the same process of denaturing.

LingLek

Your Thai name surely appears to represent you well--LingLek--LITTLE MONKEY. Isn't that what it means in English?

.

Well, you may not feel sorry for the girls, however many many of us on Thaivisa do feel very sorry for these girls.

I assume, all humans with some degree of humanity and compassion do feel sorry for some other humans or even some animals that suffer.... whether or not it is of their own doing or otherwise.

But then, on the other side of the universe, I also accept the fact that not all humans are born with human hearts and with human compassion.... as well.

More importantly, there are also many humans who enjoy the tasks of capitalizing on the less fortunates....

but I assume the majority of Thaivisa members do have some degree of justice and compassion in their hearts.

Even though, we feel sorry and heart broken for our fellow human beings

but we may not at the same time agree

or at peace with what they do

or with their opinion or their way of living. just imho.

Get a grip. They make 10,000 baht for a couple of hours work. How many on Thai Visa would not do that? Given, single and so on.

You would would you? get f****d on camera for 200 GBP 300 US? and then get all over the internet and DVDs - and you think many of us would? that is outrageous and warped. Have some compassion man for pity's sake - I am all for 'freedom' and am certainely very well aware that many girls do this for easy money - some even enjoy it. Many do not and even those that freely do it rarely have a free choice out of economic circumstance. There but for the Grace of God go I... do not lose your compassion.

edit: spl

I have lots of compassion. I also have lots of reality. How many people make porn? Ifriends claims to be the largest web-cam chat network in the world. They have thousands upon thousands of people who produce and stream porn from home. In my little town in the US I found 20 people who lived close to me who made and sold porn on-line. I had a fat women who lived across the block from me. She was in her late 40's and streamed live foot fetish porn on Ifriends.

Every little town in Thailand has porn for sale. A lot of Japanese stuff. You have to know where to look.

It has been mentioned before numerous times in this thread that there is 10,000% more porn made in the US than Thailand. Your statement about free choice out of economic circumstances seems to lose some credibility when considered with women in the US.

When a camera is turned on women get turned on. This is not a new phenomenon and it applies to women all over the world.

You want me to have sex with a beautiful young (Over 21 of course) women for $300? No problem. Once a day every day. I'm not married. Kids are grown. I'm not shy.

I could go outside right now and ask the lady who cleans my condo. She would be on cam in a NY second.

I don't think it is outrageous and warped. Thai women like having sex for money. Beyond the financial gain alone. They feel validated and in control. Some feminists think porn objectifies women. OK I understand that argument. I also understand that having sex for money gives the woman a feeling of power. Give your wife a large gold ring. How is sex that night. Same idea.

I assume you live in Chiang Mai. Go to Spicy tonight about 3AM. Look around and tell me how many people you think would get on cam for 10,000 baht.

[Ulysses G.]

Another debate is, feel sorry for them because they are forced into prostitution due to economic reasons, sorry but this is utter rubbish.They have chosen to do this for the sake of the money...

How about the posters who claim that the sex-workers are being "raped", because they have no other choice than to starve to death. That is nothing but malarkey here in Thailand.

[Loz]

my question is how could the media not know how connected this guy is? i suspect he was late with a payment and this was a staged reminder of how important prompt payment is. the media were manipulated until no longer useful. plausible?

[creck]

I agree with the poster who said he was more worried about violence on TV than the sex – even low necklines are blurred on some channels!

Only the obvious weapons are blurred in violent scenes. Really bad constant violence is allowed in most Thai serials.

But violent as life is in Bangkok, there is more prostitution than violence. I have never seen prostitution depicted in a Thai serial. On TV yes but I don’t think Thai made. So I am thinking I am wrong to be worried. This thread illustrates how porn is a big driver in Thailand. It must be a combination of acceptability (at a personal level) and money.

I found funny the remark “some girls even enjoy it”. Most are (aren’t we all?) driven to work by the need for money; but if they don’t enjoy it they sure don’t stay long. Sex is normally enjoyable. One girl said to me “I don’t like the stream of ugly men” she soon left the business.

[mark45y]

Hungary and the Czech Republic are big but when compared to California's San Fernando Valley — where adult productions are a billion-dollar industry they are but a fraction of the industry.

Hungary, for years considered the European capital of the industry in terms of production, may no longer be in the clear lead. Producers are drawn to the comparatively low cost of shooting in Prague, liberal laws governing porn and, most importantly, a plentiful supply of beautiful women with few inhibitions. In recent times a flood of cheap adult DVDs from Germany and the Netherlands has caused problems for Czech producers.

Thailand is minuscule in the production of porn. Of that I guess Thais can be proud. There is no live INTERNET porn here like in most other countries of the world.

In most countries mom and pop can start a profitable at home porn business for the cost of a computer, web cam and INTERNET connection. Not so in Thailand. None of the INTERNET companies will sponsor streaming out of Thailand.

British porn star and Playboy model Michelle Thorne said in a BBC interview, "I have never felt exploited. If anything it's giving you power over men. The only people exploited, if anyone is, are the men who go out and spend their money on porn," says the 26-year-old from Bristol. She is one of the best-known faces in the British porn industry and one of the top actresses.

Despite the existence of a national porn industry and widespread social acceptance of porn consumption, the UK is still the only Member State of the European Union that prohibits private imports of adult pornography by consumers coming from other Member States of the European Union. In the 2004–2005 fiscal year, the agents of Her Majesty Revenue & Customs seized 96,783 items of pornographic media carried by people travelling into the UK.

The UK porn industry is estimated to be now worth about £1 billion, compared to £20 billion worldwide.

[TenCent]

exploitation?

these "pornstars" were just hungry for money

[Nawtier]

She is one of the best-known faces in the British porn industry and one of the top actresses.

How does she act...exactly ?

[kuffki]

Another debate is, feel sorry for them because they are forced into prostitution due to economic reasons, sorry but this is utter rubbish.They have chosen to do this for the sake of the money...

How about the posters who claim that the sex-workers are being "raped", because they have no other choice than to starve to death. That is nothing but malarkey here in Thailand.

Perhaps those posters need to meet the girls, then they will know who is "raping" whom?

There is lots of work out there, but those girls are not willing to do any real work.

In every country there are low paid people and in every country have poor people who have nothing but want to have something, but not all poor people in the West go to sell drugs, or prostitution, just like not all poor Thai girls turn to prostitution as a way of making a living.

So really no need to feel sorry for them.

PS. Some of those poor raped girls earn 200K-700K from "sponsors" sending them money, thats more then a senior manager earns in the West working his butt off.

[logbags]

Everybody has forgotten about the Roscoe and the opium. These charges alone would have required a multi-million baht bribe.

Why does everybody assume this guy is connected? More likely he dropped a shitload of cash to the right rozzers and they just let him go. It must of cost him at least 10 million.

Instead of getting all enraged about a bit of porn what about Sanoh Thiengthong having his case dropped because of the 20 year statute of limitations. This is text book Thai political corruption and causes real damage to Thai society.

The shameless pr##k used his power to steal a large chunk of land that was donated to a temple, he then turns it into a country club and golf course for his rich mates and fellow politicions, he then flogs it to Thaksin in a classic political sweetheart deal. Sanoh, Banharn and Chalerm would be the biggest crooks in the country by a long way.

He was so guilty and there was so much evidence against him the only way they could get him off was to let the case run past the 20 year limit. This Tony Poer guy just did what he had to do, what did people expect? What about the cops in Pattaya? Once a case goes public it costs much more to get it settled as more police know about it and they will all want a feed.

Moral indignity is usually 2% about morality, 48% indignity and 50% just plain jealousy! The cops moral rage dies down after a few million baht lands in their pocket.

Why doesn't Andrew do an investigation into who owns all the large massage parlours in Bangkok? All politicions or high ranking cops. They have exploited 1000 times more women than this guy who probably paid them quite well.

[007]

Surely if the Government aided the 'poor' girls from the 'countryside' they would not have to resort to prostitution, which is what they are lets face it, prostitutes (women who sell sex for money) and why aren't those girls in jail ? I thought prostitution was illegal here ?

That's, because those pros..., erm professionals, regularly contribute for the good of society by giving 100 baht each to the PBBOVG (Policemen Bored By Old Video Games) charity for their PNTRCOTF (Police Need Their Regular Cup O'Tea Fund)... At least the girls doing their business on the beach promenade in this resort.

[007]

Those girls poor? he's relatively rich? go figure - it's disgraceful

Surely if the Government aided the 'poor' girls from the 'countryside' they would not have to resort to prostitution, which is what they are lets face it, prostitutes (women who sell sex for money) and why aren't those girls in jail ? I thought prostitution was illegal here ?

[mark45y]

She is one of the best-known faces in the British porn industry and one of the top actresses.

How does she act...exactly ?

Don't ask me. I'm not British.

[logbags]

If the cops remain true to form they'll pump this guy for as much as they can for as long as they can and then lock him up or deport him anyway.

[vahack]

the full article had good historical info, but the commentary was biased and ignorant.

even if these charges are accurate - that the girls didn't consent - this guy represents less than 1% of porn producers. 99% are hard working, honest, law abiding professionals. i spent 5 years working with hundreds of producers in LA. this guy has no actual industry experience and is probably just guilty about jerking to the chicks on creampiethais.

dont believe the hype.

[MaiChai]

Well in Vietnam a foreigner is not allowed to sleep with a local unless they are married. If this were implemented in Thailand, the sex tourist industry would dry up over night, and tourism would be severly affected. You could extend this to not allowing foreigners to be in bed with a local, which would stop the 'short time' business (which still operates in Vietnam). This would really sort out the problem.

But then you would need to work out what to do with the 'local' sex business, which is huge compared to the foreign business. This would affect the whole of society; everyone from the poor ladies from the country to police and politicians who have interests in this business, and there are some seriously important politicians who are in the business and lets say its a very big business.

Thus, I think its hypocracy picking on a foreigner like this. It comes to mind that they need to get their own house in order before picking on others. Not to say I agree with the way things are or what this guy is doing. Guess he was easy to pick up and prosecute. Lots of evidence, etc

Edited November 25, 2010 by MaiChai