toni157 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Incidently, we in the UK have loads of water - but who owns all the privatised water companies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loong Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Loong, don't be short sighted. Water has always been a problem in South East Asia, just ask anyone in Singapore! You want the industrial expansion, the hotels - where do you think the water comes from? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, water supply has always been a problem. Sorry, but I don't see your point! You want the hotelsI don't, there's enough hotels alreadyGoing back to your previous post as usual the dumb tourists feel it is Thai inefficiency. They are wrong So it's not innefficiency to build untold numbers of dwellings with no thought about water supply? Yes I am short sighted, I have spectacles to fix that. The water shortages caused by not addressing the foreseeable demand cannot be fixed as easily as a trip to the optician Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loong Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Incidently, we in the UK have loads of water - but who owns all the privatised water companies? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Shareholders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toni157 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 OK, maybe I am being naive here, but the shareholders are all French or German multinationational corporatons, who are happy to secure a long standing supply of fresh water and Large consumer base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loong Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 OK, maybe I am being naive here, but the shareholders are all French or German multinationational corporatons, who are happy to secure a long standing supply of fresh water and Large consumer base. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What does this have to do with This thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toni157 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 And Loong, The point is that water is going to be a hugely valuable commodity in the future. If you don't agree, I am happy to argue the point but just look and see how many dams the Chinese are planning for the Mekong! If you think the Issan farmers are having a hard time now, wait until their share of the warter is a relative trickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toni157 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 My earlier comment regarded the increasing importance of water as a commodity - stay in the game son! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loong Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 My earlier comment regarded the increasing importance of water as a commodity - stay in the game son! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry, if you are baiting and want someone to bite, you are out of luck here. Read your posts, they don't make sense at all This is my last response to your posts in this thread, so don't be surprised at my silence from now on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toni157 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Seriously, bothered! I am just pointing out that water is the next flashpoint after Oil. Maybe I am wrong, but I am just expressing an opinion! The Singaporians, are highly dependant on their Malay neighbours for fresh water. This is just one of my opinions - I am often wrong, so who cares what I think. I live in Thailand and, when our friendly Chinese neighbours (who have an admirable human rights record), dam the Mekong I guess the water issues will become a little more serious. The starving farmers might feel sorry about the farang tourits in Pattaya but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailaeBeach_Bum Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 I can confirm, watched the water trucks filling up the bars in walking street. buying water like that WHY?? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yet another water shortage..? what a suprise, maybe its because a couple of months ago in the Songkhran you could not drive down walking street simply because there were littereally thousands of trucks filled with water and simply throwing millions of cubic metres of water throughout Thailand down the drains.. Now it doesnt take a rocket scientist to work this out.. Thailand Stop Throwing your water down the Drain!!!! and save it for times like this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulD Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Singapore brought out NeuWater (or something) which is recycled waste water bottled, in an attempt to loosen Malaysias grip on them. I havent heard of Thailand having any sort of waste water management program? Hotels should be using grey water for toilets etc. Also signs up for tourists like Australia with their "If its brown flush it down, if its yellow let it mellow" campaign. After conserving all you can, its just going to be a matter of harsh realities and loss of face...restricting construction, limiting water use on golf courses etc etc... Water is a serious future problem that will only get worse im afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulD Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 FYI According to official data "The South-East of England has less water per person than the desert states of Syria and Sudan, according to official figures. The statistics, from the Environment Agency, show that there are 58,000 gallons of water available for every person in south-east England per year, while in Syria the figure is 95,000 gallons and in Sudan - a country wracked by civil war - 269,000." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...3/ixportal.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toni157 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Wow, who would have thought I had an enviromentalist thoughts in my rancid body! But seriously listening to farangs in Pattaya complaining about water shortage puts things in perspective. As usual we expect everyrhing to work out OK for us, and I can guarantee you I am a person who complains about the problems of living in Thailand more than anyone. But when it comes to water - and water is life, well I wonder what is going on. Like I said in my first post, this is a precursor of the future - not a criticisim of farangs who feel agreeved by not having the waer on demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toni157 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Artful, you seem good at stats - what is the population, (more or less a few million eastern europeans), of SE England Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulD Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 (edited) Total 8,00,0645 3,905,155 Men 4,095,490 Women S.E Of England Total 7,172,091 3,468,793 Men 3,703,298 Women London http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/pyramids/pages/j.asp Edited August 12, 2005 by ArtfulD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toni157 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 I am actually seriously interested in this subject, as it is something I have little knowledge about. But as a trader I can see that anything that has a limited supply and an unlimited demand- well there must be huge oportunities here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toni157 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 I wonder what he future play on water will be? The Chinese have proposed 5 dams on the Mekong, The Laotions and Cambodians are unhappy about this.But who cares about them! I really believe that the problems in the Eastern Seaboard are just a start, of course we as farangs have no input here but, surely we should raise our opinion wherever we can. Unless we really are the useless and annoying visitors that the Thai government seems to feel we are. Oh forgetit, i'll go back to my bottle of Chang and my pole swinging girlfriend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulD Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 (edited) Diverting water will become a major issue in the future/potential war issue for some countries. Theres many more flash points around the world where more than one country are competing over one source. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in...sis/default.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/755497.stm " In China it takes 1,000 tonnes of water to produce one tonne of wheat " " Pumping groundwater is like making constant withdrawals from a bank account without ever paying anything into it " has a good run down on some of the various ones around the world. The USA also has major water problems in Nevada....Las Vegas area housing boom has put huge strain on reserves. Their even shipping water in from Canada as diverting water from other sources meets up with arguments from farmers in near by states. Intrestingly the hotel use of water in Las Vegas is tiny because its all recycled, those huge fountains/water diplays etc is all waste water and recylced into toilets etc. The Government is even paying house holders to concrete over their gardens so they dont need to be watered. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4719473.stm Edited August 12, 2005 by ArtfulD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toni157 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Christ Artful, you must spend a lot of time on the internet! But I think those posts show that water is the issue of the future. What we will do about it is anyones guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toni157 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 I remember years ago talking to a Chinese guy in Lombok, he said to me "it should all be China" I asked him what, he said everything around the China Sea, that is the way those guys think, they have a much more forward thinking plan than George W and Tony Blair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulD Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Heh ive thought/read about water problems a lot. Even to the degree of thinking later on in life where I could live that has greater natural resources. Imagine a perfect storm of high oil and low water....No water to truck in, and the cost of running those trucks is huge! Also where will all the bottled water come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toni157 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 I'm only 35, but when I was a child they told me that all the oil would be gone by now! Maybe they just meant the oil in friendly countries! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulD Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 I remember years ago talking to a Chinese guy in Lombok, he said to me "it should all be China" I asked him what, he said everything around the China Sea, that is the way those guys think, they have a much more forward thinking plan than George W and Tony Blair. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Indeed, I was ignorant of the Taiwan issue up until recently. I said while not supporting china I could understand them being annoyed after taiwan split from them....I was told to look the taiwan history timeline..China never owned it!!!!! they just say its theirs because its close! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toni157 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 This is off topic, Did you ever hear the quote from Deng Xiaopeng, ( I am sure I spelt in wrong), He was the guy who was head of China up until 1992 or whenever. when asked about the repercussions of the French Revolution, he replied "It is too early to tell". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulD Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 This is off topic,Did you ever hear the quote from Deng Xiaopeng, ( I am sure I spelt in wrong), He was the guy who was head of China up until 1992 or whenever. when asked about the repercussions of the French Revolution, he replied "It is too early to tell". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just did quick search http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xiaoping Had not heard that before. Indeed China has been on a big buying spree past few years buying up resources around the world. The Unocal issue was big for America. One thing though in regards to resources.....you cant pick them up and take them with you. If $hit hit the fan then ownership laws would go out the window. Would the USA really sit back and let China have huge ownership of Canada tar sands if USA needed it? No way for China to protect something like that around other side of the world. Same goes for USA however...USA could never protect interest in middle east oil as the amount of man power required is simply too huge. China has a million man army but not the resources to move them, the US has a high-tech army that requires vast amount of fuel and who they can move all around the world but is no good for securing large areas of ground which require simply man power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toni157 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 This is the problem with having a conversation on the internet. A real conversation moves and changes topic, while coming back to the original subject every so often. In my local Bankok pub most of my nonsense would be either ignored or at least challanged by people with an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulD Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 True, one topic can have so many sides to it and branches coming off it. You get to see hardly any issue revolves purely around itself without factors from so many various external points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toni157 Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Artful, the unocal deal was called off because most of the assets, (IE exploration rights, potential recoverable Oil) was actually in this region. I was told, cant verify it, that mst people working in Thailand were hoping the sale to CNOOC would go through as job losses would have been marginal - Chevron will cut head count! The Oil sands are owned by the majors and only they have the cashflow to exploit them. You say that the US is incapable of protecting assets around the world,well what do you think the last Iraqi war was about. China aims to be able to project its influence in the same strategic manner as the US. I don't know if you are American. I have been in many places where the US has intervened and without exception it has been for economical or political leverage. If there has been no gain for Uncle Sam, well then you better be able to fend for yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulD Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 (edited) Im from the UK. Ive said many times to friends/family in regards to the Iraq issue...If it WAS about the oil then I can 100% understand it....It may be thought of as a Machavelian method by the US but quite frankly each and every country in the world is reliant on oil...if the US does what it takes to protect supplies for itself then thats only logical. Ofcourse compassion/humane issues are there...but at the end of the day two things come to mind "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few"...and "Protect your own interests first". The utopian dream of a perfect world is just that - a dream. Even France, Germany Russia etc who opposed Iraq was purely from their own economic interests rather than any moral high ground (although they tried to pretend it was). My comments about the US not being able to protect assets is that even with just Iraq and Afghanistan the USA is now stretched painfully thin....How could they cope if Iran stopped sending oil, Syria, Saudi...etc...How could they split their forces between so many countries (even one extra country depending on the issues) and such a large area? Edited August 12, 2005 by ArtfulD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfulD Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 (edited) I was unaware that most of the Unocal assets were located over there.. China/Japan are drawing daggers over the oil rights in the china sea between them are they not? Just thought id attach a graph from CNN today. Edited August 12, 2005 by ArtfulD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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