Bangkok Police To Launch Traffic Ticket Machines

[asiawatcher]

Just to get serious for a moment (sorry peoples), these machines are a good idea to help reduce corruption. One of the reasons people currently pay a bribe to avoid a fine is the effort it takes to go to a police station to actually pay it.

It won't *stop* the BIB collecting their tea money, but it gives more of an option for honest people to avoid it, and more chance to catch out those paying a bribe since cash shouldn't be changing hands when the ticket is issued.

Maybe but - the question is - will the BiB still snatch your license and then charge you a fee on return?

[Brunel]

x

That of course means that no doubt new instant on the spot traffic violations will be dreamt up to supplement incomes.

Breathing while driving. Wrong colour car for that day. Neck-tie not knotted correctly, indeed the opportunities for creative thinking are boundless.

We are talking about a machine.

A machine .... that presumably needs to be switched on

[swerver]

Just to get serious for a moment (sorry peoples), these machines are a good idea to help reduce corruption. One of the reasons people currently pay a bribe to avoid a fine is the effort it takes to go to a police station to actually pay it.

It won't *stop* the BIB collecting their tea money, but it gives more of an option for honest people to avoid it, and more chance to catch out those paying a bribe since cash shouldn't be changing hands when the ticket is issued.

To “launch” or not to “launch”

It never fails how Thais can take something that has been in use in the developed world for decades with all the bugs worked out of it and make a total balls-up of it.

This automatic traffic-ticketing has been in use in Holland (the one I know, they are also in other EU countries) not for a couple of years, but for decades. Looks like the General of the Thai Traffic Police must have been on vacation in Europe and did see the signpost showing a camera to inform motorists on the Motorway that it is under camera speed control. These signposts are to comply with the law that the public must be informed what is going on – they are not allowed to ambush the public - in this case, Speed Control. So when the General came back home presumably he had those signpost manufactured and installed along Royal Road-7 to make the road look more like the EU Motorways and impress foreign dignitaries visiting Thailand.

Ever since the signpost showing cameras appeared I have been watching for the area(s) were the camera(s) are installed. Low and behold finally I discovered a camera after traveling 120 Km (Bangkok-Pattaya), about ±5 Km before Royal Road-7 ends into Sukhumvit Road in Pattaya. It was being operated by 2 (two) people. Mind you now this is a fully automatic system in Europe.

The camera detects a vehicle that exceeds the Speed limit, takes a frame of the vehicle’s rear showing the license plate and number while in the upper corner showing a Speedo meter with the needle pointing at the speed the vehicle was travelling at the moment the frame was taken. The camera is electronically connected with the Department of motor vehicles computer system, it searches the license plate number for name and address of vehicle registered owner, addresses the envelope, makes a photo of the frame, enclosing it in the envelope, seals the envelope and sends it in the Mail. The recipient has 14-days to pay the fine, not paid by that deadline warrant for arrest is issued.

Get it? The whole affair is 100% automatic and what does Thailand do? Make a total balls-up of the system by having two (2) guys at the camera signaling the road block guys (6-8 of them) ±2 Km down the road the license plate number of the speeding vehicle which them is stopped in the roadblock.

Then I see people writing in ThaiVisa that this ticketing machine will remove corruption, how simple can some people be. By bastardizing the system Thais make sure that the corrupt hand is still in the system, in this case ±10 people.

[TPI]

Will the machines have slots to pay the bribe money directly? or is that part still handled by a real "person"

Since the OP does not go in to great detail, we must use the status quo to infer that the

machines more than likely will require you to insert Baht Bills until a "Kahk Kun Khap"

receipt issues forth from the belly of the machine, just below the belt buckle, centered.

Note that the place to insert the baht bills are located on both the left hand and right hand sides,

right near where the pockets would be.

People who do not pay the exact amount, and walk away before the receipt is issued get

"Silly String" sprayed all over their face, and a "warning...warning" played loudly, the same as

the robot from Lost In Space.

But seriously...

A database? Are you suggesting that there is a database? Does it contain all the people who are not registered owners of the vehicles they are operating? Or that they do not have driver's licenses? Or that they are under the legal age to operate a vehicle on public roads? Or that they do not have ID cards? Or that most foreigners operate rentals without proper licensing and documentation? Or that there is no license plate on the vehicle? Or that the license plate is damaged and obscured beyond alpha-numeric recognition? Or that the license plate does not have current tabs? Or...?

How will the information of an illegal act be picked up by, or transmitted as data into these machines? Will the data that is entered into these machines be by human beings or by photo recognition software? If by humans, therein lies the problem. If by photo recognition, then how does a database recognize something that it has no record of?

The article does not explain the details and peculiarities of these things, and I am very curious to know how this will function at, liberally speaking, even a 45% accuracy level.

I would sincerely like to know how this system works from beginning to end; where the process is inanimate, and animate, and in what sequence.

Pleeeeese! Mah kit mark! It's Thursday, the day when everyone is bored, they've done nothing since Monday and it's only one day to the weekend, "think of something to put in a news release" comes from on high! Done!:jap:

[tomyummer]

Will the machines have slots to pay the bribe money directly? or is that part still handled by a real "person"

I think that's what the fake police statues are for. You can either put it in the hole in their mouths or in the rear where the sun doesn't shine.

[cup-O-coffee]

Just to get serious for a moment (sorry peoples), these machines are a good idea to help reduce corruption. One of the reasons people currently pay a bribe to avoid a fine is the effort it takes to go to a police station to actually pay it.

It won't *stop* the BIB collecting their tea money, but it gives more of an option for honest people to avoid it, and more chance to catch out those paying a bribe since cash shouldn't be changing hands when the ticket is issued.

To "launch" or not to "launch"

It never fails how Thais can take something that has been in use in the developed world for decades with all the bugs worked out of it and make a total balls-up of it.

This automatic traffic-ticketing has been in use in Holland (the one I know, they are also in other EU countries) not for a couple of years, but for decades. Looks like the General of the Thai Traffic Police must have been on vacation in Europe and did see the signpost showing a camera to inform motorists on the Motorway that it is under camera speed control. These signposts are to comply with the law that the public must be informed what is going on – they are not allowed to ambush the public - in this case, Speed Control. So when the General came back home presumably he had those signpost manufactured and installed along Royal Road-7 to make the road look more like the EU Motorways and impress foreign dignitaries visiting Thailand.

Ever since the signpost showing cameras appeared I have been watching for the area(s) were the camera(s) are installed. Low and behold finally I discovered a camera after traveling 120 Km (Bangkok-Pattaya), about ±5 Km before Royal Road-7 ends into Sukhumvit Road in Pattaya. It was being operated by 2 (two) people. Mind you now this is a fully automatic system in Europe.

The camera detects a vehicle that exceeds the Speed limit, takes a frame of the vehicle's rear showing the license plate and number while in the upper corner showing a Speedo meter with the needle pointing at the speed the vehicle was travelling at the moment the frame was taken. The camera is electronically connected with the Department of motor vehicles computer system, it searches the license plate number for name and address of vehicle registered owner, addresses the envelope, makes a photo of the frame, enclosing it in the envelope, seals the envelope and sends it in the Mail. The recipient has 14-days to pay the fine, not paid by that deadline warrant for arrest is issued.

Get it? The whole affair is 100% automatic and what does Thailand do? Make a total balls-up of the system by having two (2) guys at the camera signaling the road block guys (6-8 of them) ±2 Km down the road the license plate number of the speeding vehicle which them is stopped in the roadblock.

Then I see people writing in ThaiVisa that this ticketing machine will remove corruption, how simple can some people be. By bastardizing the system Thais make sure that the corrupt hand is still in the system, in this case ±10 people.

But I think the Thais have it right.

The Thais are probably facilitating reality by radioing ahead so that they can reasonably ensure cutting off the culprits before they vanish into anonymity and they are unable to be traced.

Without going into great detail, the reality of the total population of Thailand, including peoples motor vehicles, is probably a very small percentage of inaccurately recorded data in this ridiculous database the Thai government touts.

Hence, radioing ahead!

[khaowong1]

Will they tell motorbikes to stay left so that cars and buses can pull out on them - i was at On nut on Thursday last - a policeman pulled over a motorbike for only being 25 cm from the gutter(sidewalk) - i saw him take a bribe - when the motorbike pulled out a bus hit him up the rear end - the problem with Thailand is the law isnt made and then adhered to - its made up and twisted so that Thais can opportunistically make money from it - have to say - much as I dont want to live in UK - i dont see anything like the amount of corruption in Thailand going on in England. I believe it cant be changed - corruption is engrained into the Thai persona.

"corruption is engrained into the Thai persona" so much so that it's not considered corruption any longer, it's just the way things are done in Thailand.. I'm in the U.S. right now and the Thai people over here can't understand that when they get pulled over for speeding, they can't just slip the Highway patrolman a 10 spot. Some of them get in real big trouble. They have even asked me, well, how much do they want?

[Lancelot]

Well good luck with the new project. The intent is admirable; however, as another poster pointed out the cops will simply invent new infractions to replace the lost tea money.

As for traffic enforcement, that only works if the majority actually give a rat's ass.

Naa, business as usuall but the contract for providing the traffic machnes might be profitable

Edited November 26, 2010 by Lancelot

[TimTang]

the cops won't like it if the money goes into the machine instead of their pockets ;-)

Exactly!

Remember when they tried to implement synchronized traffic lights and the wires were mysteriously cut. That idea died fairly quick. Why would you need synchronized traffic lights when you can build little air conditioned houses on every corner (impeding pedestrians) and pay a policeman to sit inside all day and press the little buttons.

Q: "What do you do for a living?"

A: "I'm a civil engineer."

[TackyToo]

Will the machines have slots to pay the bribe money directly? or is that part still handled by a real "person"

"tickets for motorists to pay their fines at police stations." I wonder why the money goes there and not directly to a government account?

[Arkady]

Not sure how this will cut down on bribery. Police will be able to decided whether to use the machine or take a bribe which is effectively no different from the current system.

[craigt3365]

Not sure how this will cut down on bribery. Police will be able to decided whether to use the machine or take a bribe which is effectively no different from the current system.

If you can pay at 7/11, some of us would do that rather than give a bribe to the cop. The current system is pretty much all bribes. This could help a lot???

[RudieTheFoodie]

I'm (not actually) surprised that so many here want more laws. Why do you live here? Why do you want to change the system to suit you?Living and driving all types of vehicles in London from 16 upto 28 I (along with 99% of other drivers) despised the constant taxing of your money using various excuses. Paying the occasional bribe to a poorly paid cop every now and then is a million miles better than getting a 100 pound fine for stopping and buying cigarettes by some poor immigrant deperate to keep his scummy money hungry boss happy. All of you who want more rules and regulations - go home. go home and get ripped off for road tax - insurance - congestion charges - minor infractions. go home, put on the telly and your slippers and shut up and be happy.

LONG LIVE THAILAND AND ALL ITS CUSTOMS AND WAYS

[random]

I am surprised I have not seen the local policeman with one of these yet, it can't be long before they start to accept bribes via credit card

Or maybe those portable ones run on 3G

[craigt3365]

I'm (not actually) surprised that so many here want more laws. Why do you live here? Why do you want to change the system to suit you?Living and driving all types of vehicles in London from 16 upto 28 I (along with 99% of other drivers) despised the constant taxing of your money using various excuses. Paying the occasional bribe to a poorly paid cop every now and then is a million miles better than getting a 100 pound fine for stopping and buying cigarettes by some poor immigrant deperate to keep his scummy money hungry boss happy. All of you who want more rules and regulations - go home. go home and get ripped off for road tax - insurance - congestion charges - minor infractions. go home, put on the telly and your slippers and shut up and be happy.

LONG LIVE THAILAND AND ALL ITS CUSTOMS AND WAYS

Nice words...until you are killed by that habitual drunk driver....who might have been taken off the streets by a system that didn't rely on bribes.

Something like 50-60% of road accidents here in Thailand involve drunk drivers:

http://www.grsproadsafety.org/themes/default/pdfs/grspasean/Thailand.pdf

One of the main causes of car accidents fatalities is alcohol abuse when driving. A report of

the World Medical Association shows that in many countries where alcohol consumption is part of

daily life, driving under the effects of alcohol is the cause of almost half of deaths and serious

injuries in car accidents. In many high-income countries about 20 percent of fatally injured drivers

have an excess of alcohol in their blood. In low-income countries the number is even worse, as

alcohol is present in between 33 percent and 69 percent of fatally injured drivers.

I'm all for limiting the laws...but I'm all for living also. Too many crazy drivers here...stricter laws are needed.

[carenot]

Just to get serious for a moment (sorry peoples), these machines are a good idea to help reduce corruption. One of the reasons people currently pay a bribe to avoid a fine is the effort it takes to go to a police station to actually pay it.

It won't *stop* the BIB collecting their tea money, but it gives more of an option for honest people to avoid it, and more chance to catch out those paying a bribe since cash shouldn't be changing hands when the ticket is issued.

Disagree. I believe it only redirects the cash flow from the policemen over to the Western corporate insurance companies now expanding operations in Thailand. In the US, they, along with Wall Street, OWN the US Legislative Branch and write legislation for the congressmen/ladies to push and sign into law. Next up will be speed cameras, auto ticketing... and more cashflow leaving wallets [insurance premiums] before the citizenry ever turn keys to their cars & bikes.

I prefer the efficiency of the back-handed Baht to the local gendarme from time-to-time. Most of the world operates this way, their salaries take it into account, and to the extent it is implemented, it can be considered "The System." For non-injury traffic offenses, I'd consider it superior to the West's corruption.

ditto

[RudieTheFoodie]

I'm (not actually) surprised that so many here want more laws. Why do you live here? Why do you want to change the system to suit you?Living and driving all types of vehicles in London from 16 upto 28 I (along with 99% of other drivers) despised the constant taxing of your money using various excuses. Paying the occasional bribe to a poorly paid cop every now and then is a million miles better than getting a 100 pound fine for stopping and buying cigarettes by some poor immigrant deperate to keep his scummy money hungry boss happy. All of you who want more rules and regulations - go home. go home and get ripped off for road tax - insurance - congestion charges - minor infractions. go home, put on the telly and your slippers and shut up and be happy.

LONG LIVE THAILAND AND ALL ITS CUSTOMS AND WAYS

Nice words...until you are killed by that habitual drunk driver....who might have been taken off the streets by a system that didn't rely on bribes.

Something like 50-60% of road accidents here in Thailand involve drunk drivers:

http://www.grsproads...an/Thailand.pdf

One of the main causes of car accidents fatalities is alcohol abuse when driving. A report of

the World Medical Association shows that in many countries where alcohol consumption is part of

daily life, driving under the effects of alcohol is the cause of almost half of deaths and serious

injuries in car accidents. In many high-income countries about 20 percent of fatally injured drivers

have an excess of alcohol in their blood. In low-income countries the number is even worse, as

alcohol is present in between 33 percent and 69 percent of fatally injured drivers.

I'm all for limiting the laws...but I'm all for living also. Too many crazy drivers here...stricter laws are needed.

Please don't get me wrong.

While i'm sure every one of us (well most) have driven once or twice after one to many ales - it shouldn't be done and is dangerous.

I'm talking about people understanding that 90% of the laws in uk (i'll use that comparison as thats where i'm from and know) are designed to tax you - not for your safety.

[neverdie]

I am surprised I have not seen the local policeman with one of these yet, it can't be long before they start to accept bribes via credit card

Or maybe those portable ones run on 3G

Won't help Thai cops much, 3G hasnt been fully rolled out around Thailand yet.... meanwhile the rest of the world is moving onwards with 3.5 & higher

[pbeieio]

This is interesting because it show they are finally preparing to use a driver database. Which means things like the process of registering cars may improve from the circus that it is, and also may be the beginning of tracking driver records. Which may lead to habitual offenders learning a thing or two about driving to avoid more tickets or losing their license, or having to pay higher insurance.

this is of course theoretical. As it is very unusual to see tickets for moving violations other than driving in the right hand lane.

I am curious as to what kind of infractions these machines will be ticketing for.

I am dubious as to how this will be implemented, but it does reinforce a previous precedent when “red light” cameras were introduced in BKK.

If they have the database to issue fines by post, then why cannot all fines be issued in the same way?

I presume that these infringement notices would be accompanied by photographic evidence as opposed to being told that “you were speeding” at a toll booth when you know you were not.

Currently if you choose to dispute a charge, then it may take 4-5 hours to prove it, but who has the time? So we pay, cash, on the spot! I hate it!

　

[selftaopath]

And how often will they be ... ahh ... broken.

Exactly. Thank you. How about all those synchronized traffic lights and the cost to buy/implement them? But this was viewed as a threat to police doing what they do best - LOL can you guess what that is????

Amusing Thailand. Land of Scams/Lack of Sanctions = LOS

[selftaopath]

Perhaps many are giving too much credit to Thailand, because rarely is anything implemented in a timely manner. And talk is more prevalent than action in Land of Scams = LOS. BUT!!!! Perhaps a new "crackdown" is coming. LOLOLOLL Ah so Amusing - Thailand

[selftaopath]

Not sure how this will cut down on bribery. Police will be able to decided whether to use the machine or take a bribe which is effectively no different from the current system.

If you can pay at 7/11, some of us would do that rather than give a bribe to the cop. The current system is pretty much all bribes. This could help a lot???

LOL. I just "flashed" on seeing a "brown bomber" in every 7/11; positioned next to the machine. LOL ah what a place eh? Now wonder the Thai people laugh so much. If they didn't they might be in tears.

[pbeieio]

This is interesting because it show they are finally preparing to use a driver database. Which means things like the process of registering cars may improve from the circus that it is, and also may be the beginning of tracking driver records. Which may lead to habitual offenders learning a thing or two about driving to avoid more tickets or losing their license, or having to pay higher insurance.

this is of course theoretical. As it is very unusual to see tickets for moving violations other than driving in the right hand lane.

I am curious as to what kind of infractions these machines will be ticketing for.

I am dubious as to how this will be implemented, but it does reinforce a previous precedent when "red light" cameras were introduced in BKK.

If they have the database to issue fines by post, then why cannot all fines be issued in the same way?

I presume that these infringement notices would be accompanied by photographic evidence as opposed to being told that "you were speeding" at a toll booth when you know you were not.

Currently if you choose to dispute a charge, then it may take 4-5 hours to prove it, but who has the time? So we pay, cash, on the spot.............. I hate i

　

[craigt3365]

Please don't get me wrong.

While i'm sure every one of us (well most) have driven once or twice after one to many ales - it shouldn't be done and is dangerous.

I'm talking about people understanding that 90% of the laws in uk (i'll use that comparison as thats where i'm from and know) are designed to tax you - not for your safety.

100% agree with that. Back in the US, the roads are great, the sidewalks are great, the elec lines are underground, etc. BUT! You for sure pay for it. And too sterile for me anyway! Thailand is a developing country. It's legal system will develop also. I've read about tax reform here. The future does not look good. But, where else to go? Somalia?

LOL. I just "flashed" on seeing a "brown bomber" in every 7/11; positioned next to the machine. LOL ah what a place eh? Now wonder the Thai people laugh so much. If they didn't they might be in tears.

I was hoping you could go there and pay a fine just like you currently do with your water and electric bills. No employees from those companies stand there waiting for payments?