When Do We Say Enough Is Enough?

[glanville63]

Everyone's situation is different I know and many people haven't the option of moving back to their country of origin but I still do. We are all bemoaning the fact that the Thai baht is around 46.00 to the Pound Sterling at the moment but I've heard from a reliable source that it might go to 38.00 Thai baht to the pound next year. At what point do we say, I can't justify staying here any longer. Has anyone done a comparison of prices here and in UK. Maybe it's still cheaper to live here but if the baht gets any stronger it certainly won't be. And if you take into account health care and schooling, if applicable, there's no case.

How many others out there will be heading home.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Mario2008
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[Loz]

As a brit working here who just negotiated a 14% pay rise, I have to say after considering moving home next year, I am now more inclined to stay a little longer. Granted, I would earn substantially more returning to a profession that I care for less and less as time passes. But here I can live comfortably with minimal drain on savings and love what I do. No case for me moving back really, I am afraid.

The Strong baht will only weed out those on modest fixed incomes from abroad. Perhaps most expats are better off than we think? I will return to making proper money at some point but it makes sense to do so when the economies of the countries I would flourish in, are in better shape, or to move into the SEO industry and have a "virtual" business with a bricks and motar location in a tax favourable nation.

If the Baht hits 38 to the pound, I wonder what it will hit to the dollar? (if they ever stop printing dollars...)

[jdinasia]

Yes, every situation IS different. The strong Baht works quite well for those of us drawing a decent salary in Thai Baht. (The proposed changes to the tax structure are looking good too!)

If it (the Baht) is too strong against your own currency then I would assume that returning to your homeland may be your only viable option. If you are under retirement age and drawing on such a small stipend that you cannot afford to live in Thailand then you certainly shouldn't be here. My heart DOES go out to thefarang here that have seen the buying power of their retirement pensions diminish so much. I can only hope that they have enough in the bank to keep going, or learn enough Thai to survive in less expensive areas of the country.

[Jingthing]

20 to the dollar would be the beginning of the end for me here. I had figured 25 was the worse case scenario; now it looks like the likely case scenario.

[alfieconn]

I've heard from a reliable source that it might go to 38.00 Thai baht to the pound next year

I wouldn't believe everything you hear, it's easy for people to make bold predictions without any real evidence to back their predictions up, did he also tell you how many millions of baht he bought at 47 odd to sell at 38 .

Edited November 26, 2010 by alfieconn

[JurgenG]

I guess it depends of the reason why you are in Thailand.

If you're here because the beer is cheap, when you can find cheaper beer elsewhere, it's time to go.

If you're here because of the nice weather, and you appreciate outdoor activities, a Baht at 50, 40, 25 or even 20 doesn't change anything to the cost of swimming or gardening.

[Jingthing]

I guess it depends of the reason why you are in Thailand.

If you're here because the beer is cheap, when you can find cheaper beer elsewhere, it's time to go.

If you're here because of the nice weather, and you appreciate outdoor activities, a Baht at 50, 40, 25 or even 20 doesn't change anything to the cost of swimming or gardening.

Point of information, I am not here because the beer is cheap. What a ridiculous stereotype of the massive impact of major currency value changes. Edited November 26, 2010 by Jingthing

[JurgenG]

I guess it depends of the reason why you are in Thailand.

If you're here because the beer is cheap, when you can find cheaper beer elsewhere, it's time to go.

If you're here because of the nice weather, and you appreciate outdoor activities, a Baht at 50, 40, 25 or even 20 doesn't change anything to the cost of swimming or gardening.

Point of information, I am not here because the beer is cheap. What a ridiculous stereotype of the massive impact of major currency value changes.

The Economist has the Big Mac index, I was looking for something more relevant to TV readers

[JetsetBkk]

I guess it depends of the reason why you are in Thailand.

If you're here because the beer is cheap, when you can find cheaper beer elsewhere, it's time to go.

If you're here because of the nice weather, and you appreciate outdoor activities, a Baht at 50, 40, 25 or even 20 doesn't change anything to the cost of swimming or gardening.

Point of information, I am not here because the beer is cheap. What a ridiculous stereotype of the massive impact of major currency value changes.

I'm moving to a cheaper - but nicer - house. It'll save me 144,000 baht per year. That compensates for about 40% of the recent currency exchange rate loss.

I could swim more and garden more, but I still have to eat and pay various bills.

Does JurgenG live in a tent on a beach?

[gmac]

Yes, every situation IS different. The strong Baht works quite well for those of us drawing a decent salary in Thai Baht. (The proposed changes to the tax structure are looking good too!)

If it (the Baht) is too strong against your own currency then I would assume that returning to your homeland may be your only viable option. If you are under retirement age and drawing on such a small stipend that you cannot afford to live in Thailand then you certainly shouldn't be here. My heart DOES go out to thefarang here that have seen the buying power of their retirement pensions diminish so much. I can only hope that they have enough in the bank to keep going, or learn enough Thai to survive in less expensive areas of the country.

It's easy enough to survive on less, the difficulty is coming up with the 800k equivalent every year to qualify for the visa extension.

[jdinasia]

Yes, every situation IS different. The strong Baht works quite well for those of us drawing a decent salary in Thai Baht. (The proposed changes to the tax structure are looking good too!)

If it (the Baht) is too strong against your own currency then I would assume that returning to your homeland may be your only viable option. If you are under retirement age and drawing on such a small stipend that you cannot afford to live in Thailand then you certainly shouldn't be here. My heart DOES go out to thefarang here that have seen the buying power of their retirement pensions diminish so much. I can only hope that they have enough in the bank to keep going, or learn enough Thai to survive in less expensive areas of the country.

It's easy enough to survive on less, the difficulty is coming up with the 800k equivalent every year to qualify for the visa extension.

Don't spend it?

Spend from retirement pensions and leave to 800k alone?

I am working on something that may ease things up some for people on marraige/retirement extensions. If it bears fruit I will let people know.

[MSingh]

You HAVE to have a THB Income if you wnat to stay here with the ROE's as they are at the moment, it's imperative in my opinion..

It doesn't have to be your only source of Income but YOU have to have some THB coming into the Household i believe, even if it's as little as 10k per Month or wahtever, even if it pays for only the Month's Shopping Bills, or the Car etc....

[gmac]

Yes, every situation IS different. The strong Baht works quite well for those of us drawing a decent salary in Thai Baht. (The proposed changes to the tax structure are looking good too!)

If it (the Baht) is too strong against your own currency then I would assume that returning to your homeland may be your only viable option. If you are under retirement age and drawing on such a small stipend that you cannot afford to live in Thailand then you certainly shouldn't be here. My heart DOES go out to thefarang here that have seen the buying power of their retirement pensions diminish so much. I can only hope that they have enough in the bank to keep going, or learn enough Thai to survive in less expensive areas of the country.

It's easy enough to survive on less, the difficulty is coming up with the 800k equivalent every year to qualify for the visa extension.

Don't spend it?

Spend from retirement pensions and leave to 800k alone?

I am working on something that may ease things up some for people on marraige/retirement extensions. If it bears fruit I will let people know.

That only works if you have a spare 800k lying around that you can afford to leave in a Thai bank account earning next to nothing in interest.......not that it attracts much more back in the UK at the moment! The fruit of your musings on marriage/retirement extensions, if successful (and legal) would be of interest.

[meom]

You HAVE to have a THB Income if you wnat to stay here with the ROE's as they are at the moment, it's imperative in my opinion..

It doesn't have to be your only source of Income but YOU have to have some THB coming into the Household i believe, even if it's as little as 10k per Month or wahtever, even if it pays for only the Month's Shopping Bills, or the Car etc....

True. A lot of guys can send the Mrs back to work I guess.

[mca]

Although having no intention of leaving because I'm settled here with my family if I were of a different mind and situation the thing that would make me move if my currency dipped too far would be living in a place that had become a lot more expensive but still with a developing country's infrastructure.

Thailand's infrastructure at 70 baht to the quid and I can overlook the "faults"

40 baht or less would make those faults a lot more apparent.

[jdinasia]

Yes, every situation IS different. The strong Baht works quite well for those of us drawing a decent salary in Thai Baht. (The proposed changes to the tax structure are looking good too!)

If it (the Baht) is too strong against your own currency then I would assume that returning to your homeland may be your only viable option. If you are under retirement age and drawing on such a small stipend that you cannot afford to live in Thailand then you certainly shouldn't be here. My heart DOES go out to thefarang here that have seen the buying power of their retirement pensions diminish so much. I can only hope that they have enough in the bank to keep going, or learn enough Thai to survive in less expensive areas of the country.

It's easy enough to survive on less, the difficulty is coming up with the 800k equivalent every year to qualify for the visa extension.

Don't spend it?

Spend from retirement pensions and leave to 800k alone?

I am working on something that may ease things up some for people on marraige/retirement extensions. If it bears fruit I will let people know.

That only works if you have a spare 800k lying around that you can afford to leave in a Thai bank account earning next to nothing in interest.......not that it attracts much more back in the UK at the moment! The fruit of your musings on marriage/retirement extensions, if successful (and legal) would be of interest.

800k is a pretty small amount to keep the extension of stay alive. When I hear back from the main offices of Imm in BKK I will let you know about what I am working on. (If they are willing to put in black and white the approval for what I am doing.) I am years off from retirement age and not married, so it won't benefit me in the short run but it certainly will benefit most foreigners retired/married here if it goes through.

[JurgenG]

I'm moving to a cheaper - but nicer - house. It'll save me 144,000 baht per year. That compensates for about 40% of the recent currency exchange rate loss.

I could swim more and garden more, but I still have to eat and pay various bills.

Does JurgenG live in a tent on a beach?

The house is fully paid but you have a valid point.

What I wanted to say is if people really want to live here they will adapt, what you're doing.

Historically the Baht was at 25 against the USD. For the past 13 years we had the chance to take advantage of a very cheap Baht. If you really want to live somewhere, you have to plan accordingly. Thinking that a situation as unpredictable as a cheap exchange rate is going to stay for ever is foolish. If you really thinking of moving because the exchange rate is not going the way you expect, it should be a strong wake up call to rethink your long term plans

[ilyelol]

Easy, i decided to keep my western money in my western account and to open a business here netting me 100 k baht per month.

Making bahts to pay living expenses instead of spending my USD's

[Berkshire]

It would seem that the short answer would be when expenses exceed income for most expats. As I write this, I just noticed that the USD is now above 30 again. Whoopee! Seriously, if you're pegged to the dollar, it's really best to plan for all contingencies, including 25:1. As someone mentioned, it's ideal to have both external (from home) and domestic (Thai baht) income if possible.

But do most expats really have the option of returning home? Even if they did, would it be the preferred option? I spoke to a recent returnee who got fed up with Thailand, returned home (to the US) and is now back in Thailand to stay. Some of what he had to say was enlightening: Back home (USA), if you're a retiree, you're pretty much a nobody. No one wants to know you, or hear your opinion, or even talk to you. But here (in Thailand), you're somebody. Yes, maybe just a farang, but in Thailand, farangs are afforded "special" status. Deservedly or not. That's why he came back. It's not always about the money.

[Forethat]

But do most expats really have the option of returning home? Even if they did, would it be the preferred option? I spoke to a recent returnee who got fed up with Thailand, returned home (to the US) and is now back in Thailand to stay. Some of what he had to say was enlightening: Back home (USA), if you're a retiree, you're pretty much a nobody. No one wants to know you, or hear your opinion, or even talk to you. But here (in Thailand), you're somebody. Yes, maybe just a farang, but in Thailand, farangs are afforded "special" status. Deservedly or not. That's why he came back. It's not always about the money.

So you're saying he returned to Thailand because here he "was somebody"; he was awarded "special" status...?

This aint the "Winners and Losers" thread is it...?

[Berkshire]

But do most expats really have the option of returning home? Even if they did, would it be the preferred option? I spoke to a recent returnee who got fed up with Thailand, returned home (to the US) and is now back in Thailand to stay. Some of what he had to say was enlightening: Back home (USA), if you're a retiree, you're pretty much a nobody. No one wants to know you, or hear your opinion, or even talk to you. But here (in Thailand), you're somebody. Yes, maybe just a farang, but in Thailand, farangs are afforded "special" status. Deservedly or not. That's why he came back. It's not always about the money.

So you're saying he returned to Thailand because here he "was somebody"; he was awarded "special" status...?

This aint the "Winners and Losers" thread is it...?

Dude, take a chill pill. That's his take. The OP implied that the question of leaving and staying for some expats is money, i.e., exchange rate. I'm just suggesting that in some cases, going home may suck more than staying and toughing it out.

[morphious]

38bht to the pound now that would be a nightmare

[PattayaParent]

38bht to the pound now that would be a nightmare

It was 40 Baht to the pound when I decided to retire here so anything since then has been a bonus.

Mind, I didn't have school fees back then.

[Jingthing]

From expat retirees point of view, Thailand is already of course not as affordable as it has been in recent years. With further baht strengthening it will become even less so for those using many western currencies. Certainly Thailand can expect fewer budget oriented retiree expats in future years and many that are here now will be squeezed out. Just to clarify perhaps some common misconceptions about the retirement qualifications here:

-- you do not require any pension

-- you are not required to import 800K per year

Perhaps a good business opportunity to exploit the retired expats in transition to more affordable greener pastures -- SPANISH lessons. It might be kind of cool to speak Spanish with a Thai accent?

Edited November 26, 2010 by Jingthing

[GuestHouse]

As a brit working here who just negotiated a 14% pay rise, I have to say after considering moving home next year, I am now more inclined to stay a little longer. Granted, I would earn substantially more returning to a profession that I care for less and less as time passes. But here I can live comfortably with minimal drain on savings and love what I do. No case for me moving back really, I am afraid.

14% sounds great, and no doubt had a few people who are struggling to get by on decreasing income + rising prices turning the shade of green you invisaged they would.

But then 14% of what - And remmember, if you have not already got your pension/old age income sorted - or are not saving sufficiently to get it sorted you are inevitably going to be joining those who your 14% was aimed at baiting.

[fletchsmile]

Yes everyone's situation is different.

As someone who has consistently ignored the mantra of "don't invest in Thailand blah blah blah" and who has built Thai baht assets and investments here, I perhaps have a preference for a stronger baht if anything. The asets I have in the UK are still there, have grown, and generally in tax free investments, but they've done less well than Thai investments, so I have more here now.

Moving back to the UK is perhaps an opportunity though. For me the following (financial) pluses and minuses:

Plus: Free schooling and education of a good quality

Plus: Free healthcare, although perhaps not as good as here in Thailand that we pay privately as needed

Plus: Could sell Thai car and get the same model cheaper in UK

Plus: The Mrs could work and build meaningful state pension for her future security, compared to very little state pension in Thailand

Plus: My preferred alcohols would be cheaper

Plus: Child Allowance

Neutral: Could sell Thai home and buy a similar UK home

Minus: TAX: UK would tax on worldwide income on investments brought into UK from Thailand to support standard of living. Currently they are tax free in Thailand

Minus: Food more expensive in UK

Minus: I see more scope for making money in the East than the West, and better to keep in touch with Eastern economies

[jdinasia]

As a brit working here who just negotiated a 14% pay rise, I have to say after considering moving home next year, I am now more inclined to stay a little longer. Granted, I would earn substantially more returning to a profession that I care for less and less as time passes. But here I can live comfortably with minimal drain on savings and love what I do. No case for me moving back really, I am afraid.

14% sounds great, and no doubt had a few people who are struggling to get by on decreasing income + rising prices turning the shade of green you invisaged they would.

But then 14% of what - And remmember, if you have not already got your pension/old age income sorted - or are not saving sufficiently to get it sorted you are inevitably going to be joining those who your 14% was aimed at baiting.

But of course you aren't baiting at all ........

Personally my retirement was sorted out long before I moved to Thailand so when I hit the age I WANT to stop working again .. I will. The wages I make here are more than just trifling offsets to the cost of living here, and that is a good thing

[Seekingasylum]

For those of you who may consider their Blighty spectacles seem a tad more rose tinted than before, you may care to dwell upon the true costs of Uk living not necessarily incurred in the LoS. High rents for shoe boxes in suburban deserts or mortgage costs, Income Tax, NI contributions, Council Tax, exhorbitant fuel costs and not to mention the eye watering charges maintaining a vehicle on the road, heating and electricity bills, increased VAT and contributions to a pot augmenting one's diminishing pension fund, food bills and occasional social forays limited to the odd pint at the local and a trip to the curry house will easily exhaust an annual income of say £35,000. Nothing left for any other fripperies such as clothes, holidays, hobbies or any of the many trips one takes for granted in living here in S.E.Asia.

Essentially, a significant section in the UK only survive with govt. benefits with the remainder paying for them at an ever increasing personal cost.

Remember, it still costs more to be poor in the UK. Better to downsize in the LoS than degrade yourself in Blighty.

[roamer]

For those of you who may consider their Blighty spectacles seem a tad more rose tinted than before, you may care to dwell upon the true costs of Uk living not necessarily incurred in the LoS. High rents for shoe boxes in suburban deserts or mortgage costs, Income Tax, NI contributions, Council Tax, exhorbitant fuel costs and not to mention the eye watering charges maintaining a vehicle on the road, heating and electricity bills, increased VAT and contributions to a pot augmenting one's diminishing pension fund, food bills and occasional social forays limited to the odd pint at the local and a trip to the curry house will easily exhaust an annual income of say £35,000. Nothing left for any other fripperies such as clothes, holidays, hobbies or any of the many trips one takes for granted in living here in S.E.Asia.

Essentially, a significant section in the UK only survive with govt. benefits with the remainder paying for them at an ever increasing personal cost.

Remember, it still costs more to be poor in the UK. Better to downsize in the LoS than degrade yourself in Blighty.

Good post. We are in the UK for the foreseeable future for our daughters education and have to make do with visits to LOS. The costs here certainly are not getting any cheaper, could be eye-opening to those who have been away for a few years. I also happen to be one of those who believe that the Baht will weaken as the Thai economy contracts, nothing is forever.

[Huey]

As a brit working here who just negotiated a 14% pay rise, I have to say after considering moving home next year, I am now more inclined to stay a little longer. Granted, I would earn substantially more returning to a profession that I care for less and less as time passes. But here I can live comfortably with minimal drain on savings and love what I do. No case for me moving back really, I am afraid.

The Strong baht will only weed out those on modest fixed incomes from abroad. Perhaps most expats are better off than we think? I will return to making proper money at some point but it makes sense to do so when the economies of the countries I would flourish in, are in better shape, or to move into the SEO industry and have a "virtual" business with a bricks and motar location in a tax favourable nation.

If the Baht hits 38 to the pound, I wonder what it will hit to the dollar? (if they ever stop printing dollars...)

Dead wrong man,

I make a chunk of my bread from exporting locally manufactured Thai products. Which become much more expensive for my clients as the Baht rises. Every Thai manufacturing/ exporting entity is in the same boat. As things here become more and more expensive international buyers just take their money elsewhere to countries with wiser economic polices (like Vietnam or china) and buy the same goods cheaper. One only need to look at what happened to the Rice market here. Nam is killing us for rice export.

26-25 Baht to the Dollar would cause me to either leave or shift from a export based to a import based business (which I'm doing but it's a lil slower going then I would like)