Thailand Will

[cardholder]

Somebody advised me that I should have a Will for my assets (such that they are) and wishes in Thailand AND a seperate Will for assets etc in the UK.

This seems like the 100% plus answer and, on the face of it, over-kill.

Surely, if I have a Thai Will, with translation, that specifies assets here and the UK it will be perfectly legal.

I cannot imagine that a UK institution would not accept a Thai death certificate and a Thai Will (each suitably certified - by a Notary if necessary).

Anybody have any personal experience of this.

[GuestHouse]

I acted as executor for an English friend who was living and married in Thailand and with assets in both the UK and Thailand.

The issue of wills is not one of acceptability, rather it is to ensure independence of action on both wills. If for any reason a single will is contested or there are any administrative problems then the whole estate his locked up.

Having two wills allows both the Thai and UK assets to be transferred independently.

There is also a matter of very particular clauses that you need to include in a UK will and too clauses that you absolutely must not include (ie relating to funds held in trust - read pensions) which it is almost certain that a Thai based lawyer would not have a working knowledge of.

Also be aware that if your wife is Thai and not tax domiciled in the UK she is not eligible for relief on Death Duties - or rather she is, but at a very much reduced rate.

[cardholder]

Thank you GH.

I am looking at what I consider to be a simple situation.

In the UK there would a maximum of 2 bank deposits, an occupational pension with defined widows benefits. No State pension yet (but I hope to get there eventually).

In Thailand a car, m/cy, condo and bank deposit.

I think that if I can be specific about these assets a UK bank would be able to pay out to my Executor against sight of theWill and Death Cert.

[prakhonchai nick]

Thank you GH.

I am looking at what I consider to be a simple situation.

In the UK there would a maximum of 2 bank deposits, an occupational pension with defined widows benefits. No State pension yet (but I hope to get there eventually).

In Thailand a car, m/cy, condo and bank deposit.

I think that if I can be specific about these assets a UK bank would be able to pay out to my Executor against sight of theWill and Death Cert.

Whilst it may appear a simple situation, I believe the comment made by GuestHouse "Having two wills allows both the Thai and UK assets to be transferred independently" is a valid point

[GuestHouse]

Thank you GH.

I am looking at what I consider to be a simple situation.

In the UK there would a maximum of 2 bank deposits, an occupational pension with defined widows benefits. No State pension yet (but I hope to get there eventually).

In Thailand a car, m/cy, condo and bank deposit.

I think that if I can be specific about these assets a UK bank would be able to pay out to my Executor against sight of theWill and Death Cert.

You absolutely should not include your pension in your will - doing so can give rise to your pension fund being taxed.

What you should do is contact the trustees of your pension and ask for an expression of wishes form, fill that in and add a letter to your will detailing what assets you have, contacts for the trustees of your pension etc.

[cardholder]

Thank you GH.

I am looking at what I consider to be a simple situation.

In the UK there would a maximum of 2 bank deposits, an occupational pension with defined widows benefits. No State pension yet (but I hope to get there eventually).

In Thailand a car, m/cy, condo and bank deposit.

I think that if I can be specific about these assets a UK bank would be able to pay out to my Executor against sight of theWill and Death Cert.

Whilst it may appear a simple situation, I believe the comment made by GuestHouse "Having two wills allows both the Thai and UK assets to be transferred independently" is a valid point

I accept that point but I am questioning the practical necessity.

Horses for courses, of course, but I don't see how "one Will" will prevent my UK and Thai estates being dealt with independently. IHT is not an issue and i cannot see any areas where the Will would be challenged.

Please don't misunderstand me, I fully accept there are cases where 2 Wills would be preferable, or even essential, but I don't see it in my case.

As always, I am happy to stand corrected - which is, of course, the purpose of this thread.

[prakhonchai nick]

You absolutely should not include your pension in your will - doing so can give rise to your pension fund being taxed.

What you should do is contact the trustees of your pension and ask for an expression of wishes form, fill that in and add a letter to your will detailing what assets you have, contacts for the trustees of your pension etc.

I agree entirely. An expression of wish form would only be required if Cardholder is unmarried. If married, the wife automatically receives the widow's pension. This is non negotiable

[Kimera]

Thank you GH.

I am looking at what I consider to be a simple situation.

In the UK there would a maximum of 2 bank deposits, an occupational pension with defined widows benefits. No State pension yet (but I hope to get there eventually).

In Thailand a car, m/cy, condo and bank deposit.

I think that if I can be specific about these assets a UK bank would be able to pay out to my Executor against sight of theWill and Death Cert.

You need two Wills one for the UK and one for your assets in Thailand, and as you want simple write them yourself, just get to know what is required.

Whilst it may appear a simple situation, I believe the comment made by GuestHouse "Having two wills allows both the Thai and UK assets to be transferred independently" is a valid point

I accept that point but I am questioning the practical necessity.

Horses for courses, of course, but I don't see how "one Will" will prevent my UK and Thai estates being dealt with independently. IHT is not an issue and i cannot see any areas where the Will would be challenged.

Please don't misunderstand me, I fully accept there are cases where 2 Wills would be preferable, or even essential, but I don't see it in my case.

As always, I am happy to stand corrected - which is, of course, the purpose of this thread.

[GuestHouse]

You absolutely should not include your pension in your will - doing so can give rise to your pension fund being taxed.

What you should do is contact the trustees of your pension and ask for an expression of wishes form, fill that in and add a letter to your will detailing what assets you have, contacts for the trustees of your pension etc.

I agree entirely. An expression of wish form would only be required if Cardholder is unmarried. If married, the wife automatically receives the widow's pension. This is non negotiable

The advantage of the expression of wishes form for married people is that it is an affirmation of the marriage - this is especially useful for overseas marriages and helps the trustees act quicker than they might otherwise be able to.

[cardholder]

You absolutely should not include your pension in your will - doing so can give rise to your pension fund being taxed.

What you should do is contact the trustees of your pension and ask for an expression of wishes form, fill that in and add a letter to your will detailing what assets you have, contacts for the trustees of your pension etc.

I agree entirely. An expression of wish form would only be required if Cardholder is unmarried. If married, the wife automatically receives the widow's pension. This is non negotiable

Thank you. Whilst it is not intended to include the pension in the Will, I appreciate you highlighting this fact. In my case the Trustees hold an 'expression of wishes' as do an insurance company where the nominal sum is designed to cover funeral costs etc, etc

[prakhonchai nick]

You absolutely should not include your pension in your will - doing so can give rise to your pension fund being taxed.

What you should do is contact the trustees of your pension and ask for an expression of wishes form, fill that in and add a letter to your will detailing what assets you have, contacts for the trustees of your pension etc.

I agree entirely. An expression of wish form would only be required if Cardholder is unmarried. If married, the wife automatically receives the widow's pension. This is non negotiable

Would it perhaps be possible to have 2 signed copies of the same will - one for Thailand and one for the UK? This would save the expense of executing 2 wills, and also of obtaining certified copies. Bear in mind also that the will used in Thailand would need to be in Thai script, whereas the one for the UK would have to be written in English

[prakhonchai nick]

In my part of Isaan it is possible to have a simple will drawn up for around 2000bt. It may therefore be cheaper in the long run to have 2 wills, than have to get a single will translated and certified.

[cardholder]

In my part of Isaan it is possible to have a simple will drawn up for around 2000bt. It may therefore be cheaper in the long run to have 2 wills, than have to get a single will translated and certified.

I must admit that I hadn't considered cost. Cost saving was not my main motive - I just thought that one document COULD possibly suffice.

The Thai Will is not an issue at 2,000 Baht and a UK Will is already in place.

I may revise my thinking and go for 2 Wills - just to cover the unlikely risk of something going 'pear-shaped' at either the Thai or UK end.

[Kimera]

You absolutely should not include your pension in your will - doing so can give rise to your pension fund being taxed.

What you should do is contact the trustees of your pension and ask for an expression of wishes form, fill that in and add a letter to your will detailing what assets you have, contacts for the trustees of your pension etc.

I agree entirely. An expression of wish form would only be required if Cardholder is unmarried. If married, the wife automatically receives the widow's pension. This is non negotiable

Would it perhaps be possible to have 2 signed copies of the same will - one for Thailand and one for the UK? This would save the expense of executing 2 wills, and also of obtaining certified copies. Bear in mind also that the will used in Thailand would need to be in Thai script, whereas the one for the UK would have to be written in English

Not so the Thai Will can be in English

[prakhonchai nick]

Not so the Thai Will can be in English

Surely a Thai will has at some stage to be translated into Thai. It normally requires approval by a local family court, and even if a bank was prepared to accept a will and death certificate, it is almost certain that they would want to see what it said in Thai.

[malcolminthemiddle]

Unless you have a Thai executor who is experienced in UK probate procedure or a UK executor experienced in Thai probate procedure I would suggest you need two wills, one for UK based assets and one for assets in Thailand.

[JimGant]

In the UK there would a maximum of 2 bank deposits, an occupational pension with defined widows benefits. No State pension yet.

Unless in the UK one does not have the ability to establish a 'pay on death' clause to establish a beneficiary for bank accounts, why would you even need a will, as what's to go through probate? The pensions certainly allow for designating beneficiaries, and thus would escape probate. (Unless the UK differs from the US in these matters....)

I would think a single Thai will, leaving 'all my worldly goods,' would be sufficient. Particularly if there's little-to-no chance your death wishes will be disputed (or if, for some reason, you can't name a beneficiary for your UK bank accounts).

But, again, there may be something in UK probate matters I'm missing....

[malcolminthemiddle]

My UK bank, Lloyds TSB, do not provide a 'pay on death clause' or the provision to nominate a beneficiary in the event of sudden death. To access these funds my beneficiary, who is my Thai wife, would need to follow the UK probate procedure which would be difficult for her without a UK based executor. With joint accounts this difficulty does not occur.

As I mentioned, if any one has assets outside Thailand and their beneficiary is a Thai national, to ensure your wishes are met and your beneficiary receives the funds you intended for them without difficulty, a Will and nominated executor in the country where the assets are needed.

[JimGant]

As I mentioned, if any one has assets outside Thailand and their beneficiary is a Thai national, to ensure your wishes are met and your beneficiary receives the funds you intended for them without difficulty, a Will and nominated executor in the country where the assets are needed.

At least, apparently, in the UK (unless Lloyds is not the norm). Not so in the States, where most financial accounts can be set up with POD clauses, including joint accounts -- handy should you both be hit by the same truck.

However, as you mentioned, the OP might consider setting up his bank accounts jointly with his Thai wife -- if that looks easier than having a Will prepared back in the UK. (And if the probability of dying simultaneously doesn't carry much significance.)

[PattayaParent]

My UK bank, Lloyds TSB, do not provide a 'pay on death clause' or the provision to nominate a beneficiary in the event of sudden death. To access these funds my beneficiary, who is my Thai wife, would need to follow the UK probate procedure which would be difficult for her without a UK based executor. With joint accounts this difficulty does not occur.

As I mentioned, if any one has assets outside Thailand and their beneficiary is a Thai national, to ensure your wishes are met and your beneficiary receives the funds you intended for them without difficulty, a Will and nominated executor in the country where the assets are needed.

But if it's the UK this could bring with it inheritance tax issues.

[cardholder]

My UK bank, Lloyds TSB, do not provide a 'pay on death clause' or the provision to nominate a beneficiary in the event of sudden death. To access these funds my beneficiary, who is my Thai wife, would need to follow the UK probate procedure which would be difficult for her without a UK based executor. With joint accounts this difficulty does not occur.

As I mentioned, if any one has assets outside Thailand and their beneficiary is a Thai national, to ensure your wishes are met and your beneficiary receives the funds you intended for them without difficulty, a Will and nominated executor in the country where the assets are needed.

Probate is only necessary if de-minimis limits are exceeded. each bank will be able to pay out against a Death Certificate only (in the case of a widow) or Death Certificate and copy of the Will. Only if the such repayment cannot be achieved will there be a need to prove a Will.

The Executor is irrelevant if the right advice/advsier is chosen. I would appoint my wife as executor and give clear instructions, to whom she must approach, on my death. There are a number of benefits for her - other than the assets alone that she would need help with.

The Will is really just a declaration of your wishes. Nothing worse than finding out 5 days after your cremation at the local wat that you wanted to be buried next to your parents in Chichester. If you are content to rely on the prevailing rules on intestacy then you don't need to bother with a Will - guidance for the widow after death is the most important thing. Most wouldn't have a clue where to start.

Just for the record, I would NOT rely on the intestacy rules in Thailand.

Edited November 28, 2010 by cardholder