Constitution Court Acquits Thai Democrat

[philw]

This judgement should surprise nobody. And bear in mind that the Democrat party has not been vindicated. They got off on a technicality and the President of the Constitutional Court thought they did have a case to answer. One questions whether political considerations have influenced the 4 judges who voted not to allow the case to proceed.

The real test of course will be in April or May or November or however long the Democrats can put off the inevitable election that Peua Thai will win. Then watch for lots of court cases against PT MP's who give a couple of bags of rice to impoverished voters during the election campaign. I wonder if the constitutiuonal court will find technical flaws in the case against them. I think not!

Double Standards!

Well said MF

[Buchholz]

Thankfully for the future of Thailand the Court gave a good decision, and Abhisit can take a lot of confidence in. I wish luck to him and his team in the next elections. The more seats the Democrats can seal without doing deals will be for the benefit of all of Thailand.

Edit: for Democrats spelling

"Take a lot of confidence from it". Sounds like the current Liverpool manager explaining last nights 2:1 loss.

Aghh no!!! He won by twice the margin of the loss you relied on for your confort. Winners are grinners, and he is slowly doing just that. Listen to what your granny would have told you when you were a little nipper..."Honesty eventually will win through".

Edited to add: Just clicked as a soccer fan of Spurs many years ago... well see everything is just peachy

In a judicial sense, 4:2 is hardly a win, and the case was dismissed not won. The mere fact that it was 4:2 causes its own long term problems for the election. He will battle on to the election, but if you honestly believe that the Dems on their own will win too many opposition seats, I think you are sadly mistaken.

The seats are so entrenched, I fully expect virtually the same result as last time.

a lot of water has passed under the bridge since then...

Thai Democrats Could Win General Elections If Poll Held Now

[IAMSOBAD]

OT

Any members with good knowledge of the SET please PM me. I want in on this cash cow presented by Thai politicians.

My thoughts are that we farang should be making money off of the strong baht and SET while living in the LOS political circus.

Every single day Thai politics offer us an op to cash in!

Please PM me.

[truethailand]

Abhsit haters will decry this, but the man is the best PM we've had in 10 years, and (while not perfect by a long shot), is a hell of a lot better to any PTP mouthbreather as PM (or Sanan, or Sanoh, or any of the other marshmellows).

Oldest party keeps getting older. Look for house dissolution in April, and current coalition wins majority and is back until at least 2014. :jap:

agree.......we all wish this, well those who use a signature and not a finger print

Please explain the last sentence

[Robby nz]

Lot of red supporters coming out this evening telling us the dems were not aquitted the case was only dismissed so they must still be guilty.

Bad losers?

But the monthly cheques must have come in so they have to keep up the farce to stay on the staff.

[philw]

Lot of red supporters coming out this evening telling us the dems were not aquitted the case was only dismissed so they must still be guilty.

Bad losers?

But the monthly cheques must have come in so they have to keep up the farce to stay on the staff.

Care to support your last sentence ??

Why do you feel the need to be so insulting ??

Insecurity ??

[truethailand]

Be careful with your words. You can go to jail with such comments about the court.

Nailed it girl. Democracy Thai style. The institutions that can do no wrong cannot be talked about in discussion. Not saying in this particular case the judiciary are not correct The judiciary is beyond reproach and that is understandable when you look at the big picture. How is Thailand ever going forward with no freedom of speech. Forgot they dont want to go forward. The two things you need to run a country is control of the legal system and if that fails deadly force. Work the rest out yourself

Edited November 29, 2010 by metisdead
Removed deleted quote

[philw]

So if someone disagrees with you, they are Red?

As Gomer Pyle said - Surprise Surprise!!! What did Thailand expect? Sour grapes from the Reds and another waste of Admin and legal resources apart from taxpayers money!

Let's wait for the next bitch session from the Reds.... it'll come.

[metisdead]

Multiple posts and replies to them have been removed as per forum rule:

15) Not to use ThaiVisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, inaccurate, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. You also agree not to post negative comments criticizing the legal proceedings or judgments of any Thai court of law.

[JetsetBkk]

Be careful with your words. You can go to jail with such comments about the court.

Nailed it girl. Democracy Thai style. The institutions that can do no wrong cannot be talked about in discussion. Not saying in this particular case the judiciary are not correct The judiciary is beyond reproach and that is understandable when you look at the big picture. How is Thailand ever going forward with no freedom of speech. Forgot they dont want to go forward. The two things you need to run a country is control of the legal system and if that fails deadly force. Work the rest out yourself

Are we in Burma yet?

[taff33]

money talks law walks

[cmsally]

It seems according to some (of the judges), the Electoral Commission didn't file their complaints in time to the Constitutional Court. Problem seems to be they had 2 meetings one in Dec 09 (or maybe it was Nov and the 15 day rule fell in Dec ??) and one in April 10. Whereas they did file within 15 days of the April meeting but not within the Dec. meeting.

I don't quite see how the case could come so far when it wasn't in fact submitted in time. Surely this fault in the submission process would come up earlier.

Does this mean that the 2 judges who voted the other way, in fact saw it fit that the 15 day deadline should refer to the EC meeting of Apr 10?

If so what on earth are they doing if they can't even agree on a complaints submission process?

[animatic]

Abhsit haters will decry this, but the man is the best PM we've had in 10 years, and (while not perfect by a long shot), is a hell of a lot better to any PTP mouthbreather as PM (or Sanan, or Sanoh, or any of the other marshmellows).

Oldest party keeps getting older. Look for house dissolution in April, and current coalition wins majority and is back until at least 2014. :jap:

agree.......we all wish this, well those who use a signature and not a finger print

Please explain the last sentence

Criminals in the justice system, and those that can't sign their name, sometimes use fingerprints as definitive identification.

[SweeneyAgonistes]

Lot of red supporters coming out this evening telling us the dems were not aquitted the case was only dismissed so they must still be guilty.

Bad losers?

But the monthly cheques must have come in so they have to keep up the farce to stay on the staff.

Yes, it's true. The red leadership see the public opinion battle being fought on third-rate forums for white immigrants as vital to their future. I'm getting paid a bottle of Sato for this. What about the rest of you?

[Buchholz]

It seems according to some (of the judges), the Electoral Commission didn't file their complaints in time to the Constitutional Court. Problem seems to be they had 2 meetings one in Dec 09 (or maybe it was Nov and the 15 day rule fell in Dec ??) and one in April 10. Whereas they did file within 15 days of the April meeting but not within the Dec. meeting.

The EC acknowledged the allegation on December 17, 2009.

They have 15 days after that day to file charges.

The complaint was filed by the EC with the court on April 21, 2010.

[hanuman1]

Lot of red supporters coming out this evening telling us the dems were not aquitted the case was only dismissed so they must still be guilty.

Bad losers?

But the monthly cheques must have come in so they have to keep up the farce to stay on the staff.

Yes, it's true. The red leadership see the public opinion battle being fought on third-rate forums for white immigrants as vital to their future. I'm getting paid a bottle of Sato for this. What about the rest of you?

I'm getting 50% off Som Tam Bala at the local food stall and a one-week timeshare apartment in the Balkans

[Deeral]

One desn't have to be "an Abhisit hater" to be at least dissatisfied with this whole fiasco.

As ever democracy suffers and as a result Thailand suffers. THe democratic institutions are simply too week to function properly.

Instead of elections and voting the country has coups and legal battles.

THe courts are well aligned with the govt.they are NOT independent or powerful enough to be so.TH verdict in the end is a fudge - declaring the PROCESSES illegal - so there's no cut and dried conclusion as whether the govt had committed any "improper acts" - the courts merely said that the prosecution was invalid.

If the case HAd succeeded - the country would have been no better off either.

THe habit of DISSOLVING political parties is just a farce and serves no real purpose, unless they include interfering with democratic processes as a satisfactory effect.

It is time that ALL politicians in Thailand got it into their heads that OPPOSITION is an essential part of any democracy and that going to court at the drop of a hat or staging a coup are NEVER a good way to change a government.

Basically those in power in this country are no better than a bunch of kids fighting over a cake.

[Deeral]

PS - those of you who think that anyone who criticises tho incumbent are "Red" supporters are simply showing how incapable they are of understanding even a small part of the problems that beset Thailand.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Deeral

[whybother]

This judgement should surprise nobody. And bear in mind that the Democrat party has not been vindicated. They got off on a technicality and the President of the Constitutional Court thought they did have a case to answer. One questions whether political considerations have influenced the 4 judges who voted not to allow the case to proceed.

The real test of course will be in April or May or November or however long the Democrats can put off the inevitable election that Peua Thai will win. Then watch for lots of court cases against PT MP's who give a couple of bags of rice to impoverished voters during the election campaign. I wonder if the constitutiuonal court will find technical flaws in the case against them. I think not!

Double Standards!

Well said MF

Yes ... well said. Wrong, but well said anyway.

The judgement certainly didn't surprise the PTP. They knew which way it was going to go when the red shirts "encouraged" the EC to file it with the Constitution Court, even though EC decided not to file it several times before. That's why the PTP decided to release the tapes ... initially to discredit the Democrats (which failed dismally) and then to discredit the court itself. One questions whether political considerations have influenced the 2 judges who voted to allow the case to proceed.

The real test WILL come when the Democrats decide to call an election, which they legally have until the end of 2011 to call (what government in the world calls an election when they don't want to?)

The upcoming by-elections will give a reasonable indication of how a general election might go, but recent by-elections, the 2007 elections, by-elections following shortly after the 2007 election, AND the support that the Democrats have from the current coalition parties, how does the PTP expect to win an election? The PPP couldn't win the 2007 election, and to form government needed support from other parties, which they've now lost, and the PTP are leaking MPs all over the place now.

How exactly can the PTP win an election?

And Double Standards?? How??

Edited November 29, 2010 by whybother

[hanuman1]

PS - those of you who think that anyone who criticises tho incumbent are "Red" supporters are simply showing how incapable they are of understanding even a small part of the problems that beset Thailand.

How dare you express a balanced opinion on this forum. Be gone I say!

[Buchholz]

The Pheu Thai Party is looking pretty rough going into any election:

The PTP is looking to throw out 6 of their own MP's from the Party, (the Cobra 6)

Added to the 20 other MP's from Pheu Thai Party that Pheu Thai Party MP Pirapan Palusuk described as dissidents and disloyal.

And topped off by Pheu Thai Party MP Chaiya Promma saying the dissidence and turmoil within his Party is due to a lack of leadership in the Party and also that the Party has yet to name its candidate for prime minister. He finished by saying senior Party members are aware of the situation but they have failed to take action.

This all happened just 2 days ago.

.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Buchholz

[jdinasia]

This judgement should surprise nobody. And bear in mind that the Democrat party has not been vindicated. They got off on a technicality and the President of the Constitutional Court thought they did have a case to answer. One questions whether political considerations have influenced the 4 judges who voted not to allow the case to proceed.

The real test of course will be in April or May or November or however long the Democrats can put off the inevitable election that Peua Thai will win. Then watch for lots of court cases against PT MP's who give a couple of bags of rice to impoverished voters during the election campaign. I wonder if the constitutiuonal court will find technical flaws in the case against them. I think not!

Double Standards!

Ummmm So you know what was in the President of the Constitution Court's mind? What we know at this point is that he did not concur with the other 4 that the reason cited was enough to not consider the case. We do not know if he thinks there are other reasons not to consider the case, nor do we know whether he thinks the case had any merit.

At this point I would offer a bet about who wins the next elections that you seem so certain of the outcome of .... but I can't Gambling is illegal.

As for double standards ... you DO know that the term came into use in Thailand about the 2001 assets concealment case against Thaksin, don't you?

[jdinasia]

The Pheu Thai Party is looking pretty rough going into any election:

The PTP is looking to throw out 6 of their own MP's from the Party, (the Cobra 6)

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4052384

Added to the 20 other MP's from Pheu Thai Party that Pheu Thai Party MP Pirapan Palusuk described as dissidents and disloyal.

And topped off by Pheu Thai Party MP Chaiya Promma saying the dissidence and turmoil within his Party is due to a lack of leadership in the Party and also that the Party has yet to name its candidate for prime minister. He finished by saying senior Party members are aware of the situation but they have failed to take action.

This all happened just 2 days ago.

.

It'll take a LARGE influx of Thaksin's cash ... and the PTP members that are in trouble with the cres (and the other red leaders) to get some control back of their party. The thing is, that cash inflows are being watched pretty carefully these days!

I predict PTP will get about 30% of the next National election votes ... and not be in the ruling coalition government again. (I also predict some redshirts crying about it when it happens!)

[jdinasia]

Thankfully for the future of Thailand the Court gave a good decision, and Abhisit can take a lot of confidence in. I wish luck to him and his team in the next elections. The more seats the Democrats can seal without doing deals will be for the benefit of all of Thailand.

Edit: for Democrats spelling

"Take a lot of confidence from it". Sounds like the current Liverpool manager explaining last nights 2:1 loss.

Aghh no!!! He won by twice the margin of the loss you relied on for your confort. Winners are grinners, and he is slowly doing just that. Listen to what your granny would have told you when you were a little nipper..."Honesty eventually will win through".

Edited to add: Just clicked as a soccer fan of Spurs many years ago... well see everything is just peachy

In a judicial sense, 4:2 is hardly a win, and the case was dismissed not won. The mere fact that it was 4:2 causes its own long term problems for the election. He will battle on to the election, but if you honestly believe that the Dems on their own will win too many opposition seats, I think you are sadly mistaken.

The seats are so entrenched, I fully expect virtually the same result as last time.

The same results as "last time" end up with a coalition government led by the Dems.

BJT and their people left PPP/PTP and more have defected since. Thaksin's hold on people like Newin and other regional bosses is no longer an issue. PTP ends up with 30% of the vote and Dems end up leading another coalition government.

[Buchholz]

and the President of the Constitutional Court thought

Ummmm So you know what was in the President of the Constitution Court's mind?

He's got the equipment and the operating instructions.

.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Buchholz

[animatic]

To correct yet another myth in the making.

This was not a charge about " the government" making any illegal moves,

but about the Democratic party leadership 5+ years ago, possibly making a

accounting mistake caused by the printers being greedy or stupid.

The ONLY document submitted that said the Dems actually paid too much,

was by a printer wanting that much and not getting it from them, and he also

did not do the job as requested, and when shown the mistaken printing job,

the Dems went to the EC of that day, explained it,

and then the EC signed off on the different figures and costs,

but the printer STILL didn't get his extra that he had demanded.

He turned coat and went to PTP.

I believe even though the legal error in facts that ended this case in record time, AFTER final arguments, was allowed to proceed for the specific reason of letting all the Thai people, see/hear the charges and arguments for what they were, and to hear the final arguments, which were televised. This allowed the Thai Public and pundits to see the process and the court of public opinion can make the final judgment, likely at the voting both someday. This could have been ended months ago, but letting it continue till now, allowed facts to be aired for the public, and no suggestions of improprieties to successfully be levied. In the Thai way, justice was served, because justice was seen to be done publicly, regardless of the deeper potential merits of the charges being specifically voted on.

Edited November 29, 2010 by animatic

[philw]

PS - those of you who think that anyone who criticises tho incumbent are "Red" supporters are simply showing how incapable they are of understanding even a small part of the problems that beset Thailand.

Thank you.

Well said.

[jdinasia]

and the President of the Constitutional Court thought

Ummmm So you know what was in the President of the Constitution Court's mind?

He's got the equipment and the operating instructions.

.

LOL ....

It is amazing to see what people read into things. ~If they were dissenting votes that means ~~~

What it means is that they disagreed on that single idea and says nothing about what they thought about any OTHER idea.

[whybother]

The same results as "last time" end up with a coalition government led by the Dems.

BJT and their people left PPP/PTP and more have defected since. Thaksin's hold on people like Newin and other regional bosses is no longer an issue. PTP ends up with 30% of the vote and Dems end up leading another coalition government.

That's the way I see it too. No one has been able to explain to me how the PTP will get into government.

So far, there hasn't been a back lash against the Democrats in any by-election. The PTP are losing MPs hand over fist.

How does anyone expect the PTP to win?

[philw]

This judgement should surprise nobody. And bear in mind that the Democrat party has not been vindicated. They got off on a technicality and the President of the Constitutional Court thought they did have a case to answer. One questions whether political considerations have influenced the 4 judges who voted not to allow the case to proceed.

The real test of course will be in April or May or November or however long the Democrats can put off the inevitable election that Peua Thai will win. Then watch for lots of court cases against PT MP's who give a couple of bags of rice to impoverished voters during the election campaign. I wonder if the constitutiuonal court will find technical flaws in the case against them. I think not!

Double Standards!

Well said MF

Yes ... well said. Wrong, but well said anyway.

The judgement certainly didn't surprise the PTP. They knew which way it was going to go when the red shirts "encouraged" the EC to file it with the Constitution Court, even though EC decided not to file it several times before. That's why the PTP decided to release the tapes ... initially to discredit the Democrats (which failed dismally) and then to discredit the court itself. One questions whether political considerations have influenced the 2 judges who voted to allow the case to proceed.

The real test WILL come when the Democrats decide to call an election, which they legally have until the end of 2011 to call (what government in the world calls an election when they don't want to?)

The upcoming by-elections will give a reasonable indication of how a general election might go, but recent by-elections, the 2007 elections, by-elections following shortly after the 2007 election, AND the support that the Democrats have from the current coalition parties, how does the PTP expect to win an election? The PPP couldn't win the 2007 election, and to form government needed support from other parties, which they've now lost, and the PTP are leaking MPs all over the place now.

How exactly can the PTP win an election?

And Double Standards?? How??

Very fair post and all good comments.

We just have to see what happens.