Constitution Court Acquits Thai Democrat

[philw]

The same results as "last time" end up with a coalition government led by the Dems.

BJT and their people left PPP/PTP and more have defected since. Thaksin's hold on people like Newin and other regional bosses is no longer an issue. PTP ends up with 30% of the vote and Dems end up leading another coalition government.

That's the way I see it too. No one has been able to explain to me how the PTP will get into government.

So far, there hasn't been a back lash against the Democrats in any by-election. The PTP are losing MPs hand over fist.

How does anyone expect the PTP to win?

I suppose a re-organisation will come soon, combined with the traditional Thai money politic.

As observers we are guaranteed "interesting times ".

[whybother]

PS - those of you who think that anyone who criticises tho incumbent are "Red" supporters are simply showing how incapable they are of understanding even a small part of the problems that beset Thailand.

Thank you.

Well said.

Thanks for your insight and input once again phil.

@Deeral ... that sentiment would also apply to those who criticise the PTP or red shirts. That doesn't make them yellow shirt supporters.

[animatic]

PS - those of you who think that anyone who criticises tho incumbent are "Red" supporters are simply showing how incapable they are of understanding even a small part of the problems that beset Thailand.

Thank you.

Well said.

Thanks for your insight and input once again phil.

@Deeral ... that sentiment would also apply to those who criticise the PTP or red shirts. That doesn't make them yellow shirt supporters.

Precisely.

[ChiangMaiFun]

PS - those of you who think that anyone who criticises tho incumbent are "Red" supporters are simply showing how incapable they are of understanding even a small part of the problems that beset Thailand.

Thank you.

Well said.

Thanks for your insight and input once again phil.

@Deeral ... that sentiment would also apply to those who criticise the PTP or red shirts. That doesn't make them yellow shirt supporters.

Precisely.

'precisely'? I dont think so...

[whybother]

'precisely'? I dont think so...

So your suggesting that anyone that critises the PTP or red shirts are yellow shirt supporters?

Then you would also have to say that anyone that critises the government or yellow shirts is a red shirt supporter.

Otherwise it would be Double Standards.

[Deeral]

PS - those of you who think that anyone who criticises tho incumbent are "Red" supporters are simply showing how incapable they are of understanding even a small part of the problems that beset Thailand.

Thank you.

Well said.

Thanks for your insight and input once again phil.

@Deeral ... that sentiment would also apply to those who criticise the PTP or red shirts. That doesn't make them yellow shirt supporters.

You're catching on!

[whybother]

PS - those of you who think that anyone who criticises tho incumbent are "Red" supporters are simply showing how incapable they are of understanding even a small part of the problems that beset Thailand.

Thank you.

Well said.

Thanks for your insight and input once again phil.

@Deeral ... that sentiment would also apply to those who criticise the PTP or red shirts. That doesn't make them yellow shirt supporters.

You're catching on!

Maybe you need to tell that to some of the other red shirt supporters anti-government posters on TVF.

[Thai at Heart]

a lot of water has passed under the bridge since then...

Thai Democrats Could Win General Elections If Poll Held Now

Maybe it is important to say, that voting the same might in the smallest of chances mean voting for a different coalitinon. Newin's bunch are the kingmakers. The problem is that I expect the electorate to be a little bit smarter than last time. Instead of giving Newin's bunch their vote entirely freely and expecting him to handle it as they see fit, they may actually expect some sort of guarantee. A bigger retainer maybe. The Dems will have to pay through the teeth to get even a single seat in the Reds areas. I don't personally mind, I have a house in one of the more vulnerable seats and the road are crap.

Water under the bridge means that in reality certain constituents are expecting an even bigger payback for their votes. To vote democrat, or allied partys in the PTP strongholds is a massive risk personally and politically.

As I stated before, I don't expect any significant changes in the outcome from last time. At least the idea of Newin as PM got put to bed today.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[jdinasia]

a lot of water has passed under the bridge since then...

Thai Democrats Could Win General Elections If Poll Held Now

http://www.thaivisa....f-poll-held-now

Maybe it is important to say, that voting the same might in the smallest of chances mean voting for a different coalitinon. Newin's bunch are the kingmakers. The problem is that I expect the electorate to be a little bit smarter than last time. Instead of giving Newin's bunch their vote entirely freely and expecting him to handle it as they see fit, they may actually expect some sort of guarantee. A bigger retainer maybe. The Dems will have to pay through the teeth to get even a single seat in the Reds areas. I don't personally mind, I have a house in one of the more vulnerable seats and the road are crap.

Water under the bridge means that in reality certain constituents are expecting an even bigger payback for their votes. To vote democrat, or allied partys in the PTP strongholds is a massive risk personally and politically.

As I stated before, I don't expect any significant changes in the outcome from last time. At least the idea of Newin as PM got put to bed today.

If to vote Democrat is a "massive risk personally" then it begs the question ... why have elections? If you are threatened or abused because of voting your conscience in the "red" zones ....... then they certainly are not practicing any form of democracy!

But you are correct --- there won't be much change in the next elections. The Dems will likely hold the ruling coalition together.

[Buchholz]

a lot of water has passed under the bridge since then...

Thai Democrats Could Win General Elections If Poll Held Now

Maybe it is important to say, that voting the same might in the smallest of chances mean voting for a different coalitinon. Newin's bunch are the kingmakers. The problem is that I expect the electorate to be a little bit smarter than last time. Instead of giving Newin's bunch their vote entirely freely and expecting him to handle it as they see fit, they may actually expect some sort of guarantee. A bigger retainer maybe. The Dems will have to pay through the teeth to get even a single seat in the Reds areas. I don't personally mind, I have a house in one of the more vulnerable seats and the road are crap.

Water under the bridge means that in reality certain constituents are expecting an even bigger payback for their votes. To vote democrat, or allied partys in the PTP strongholds is a massive risk personally and politically.

As I stated before, I don't expect any significant changes in the outcome from last time. At least the idea of Newin as PM got put to bed today.

Then, it's time for the appointed Northeast Regional Coordinator for the Pheu Thai Party to come to the forefront as the 2011 PM candidate in the upcoming elections. The campaign logo for little brother is a sure fire winner.

[Thai at Heart]

a lot of water has passed under the bridge since then...

Thai Democrats Could Win General Elections If Poll Held Now

http://www.thaivisa....f-poll-held-now

Maybe it is important to say, that voting the same might in the smallest of chances mean voting for a different coalitinon. Newin's bunch are the kingmakers. The problem is that I expect the electorate to be a little bit smarter than last time. Instead of giving Newin's bunch their vote entirely freely and expecting him to handle it as they see fit, they may actually expect some sort of guarantee. A bigger retainer maybe. The Dems will have to pay through the teeth to get even a single seat in the Reds areas. I don't personally mind, I have a house in one of the more vulnerable seats and the road are crap.

Water under the bridge means that in reality certain constituents are expecting an even bigger payback for their votes. To vote democrat, or allied partys in the PTP strongholds is a massive risk personally and politically.

As I stated before, I don't expect any significant changes in the outcome from last time. At least the idea of Newin as PM got put to bed today.

If to vote Democrat is a "massive risk personally" then it begs the question ... why have elections? If you are threatened or abused because of voting your conscience in the "red" zones ....... then they certainly are not practicing any form of democracy!

But you are correct --- there won't be much change in the next elections. The Dems will likely hold the ruling coalition together.

It is village/group mentality that is seen the world over in the developing world. No one wants to stand out, and pretending that everyone's vote is entirely secret is an anathema. It would be no different down South if someone voted PTP. I have seen a discussion start in Nong Rua west of Khon Kaen as a decent political discussion between two people and it has escalated into a very heated debate among 10, with people spitting venom. It just isn't going to happen, and the parties as they stand today haven't had a chance to spread their influence. But then, when did the Dems ever have any real influence in the PTP strongholds?

They have always relied on attracting smaller parties. That is what has to change, (as Thaksin showed them) and if Abhisit can stay in next time, he may have a chance to engage with the rural population. I expect him to wear Hunter wellies and a Barbour doing it, but it would be something to see.

As for the Dems holding it together, I expect so, but with a person like Newin holding it together, lets wait and see and I deep down hope so.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[ChiangMaiFun]

'precisely'? I dont think so...

So your suggesting that anyone that critises the PTP or red shirts are yellow shirt supporters?

Then you would also have to say that anyone that critises the government or yellow shirts is a red shirt supporter.

Otherwise it would be Double Standards.

you mean 'you're' not 'your'? so you link the government with yellow shirts? nice to hear the truth at last!

[Thai at Heart]

a lot of water has passed under the bridge since then...

Thai Democrats Could Win General Elections If Poll Held Now

Maybe it is important to say, that voting the same might in the smallest of chances mean voting for a different coalitinon. Newin's bunch are the kingmakers. The problem is that I expect the electorate to be a little bit smarter than last time. Instead of giving Newin's bunch their vote entirely freely and expecting him to handle it as they see fit, they may actually expect some sort of guarantee. A bigger retainer maybe. The Dems will have to pay through the teeth to get even a single seat in the Reds areas. I don't personally mind, I have a house in one of the more vulnerable seats and the road are crap.

Water under the bridge means that in reality certain constituents are expecting an even bigger payback for their votes. To vote democrat, or allied partys in the PTP strongholds is a massive risk personally and politically.

As I stated before, I don't expect any significant changes in the outcome from last time. At least the idea of Newin as PM got put to bed today.

Then, it's time for the appointed Northeast Regional Coordinator for the Pheu Thai Party to come to the forefront as the 2011 PM candidate in the upcoming elections. The campaign logo for little brother is a sure fire winner.

Great T-shirt.

Apparently Abhisit was in Khon Kaen this last weekend and most of the city centre was shut down on Sunday. At least he is venturing out a bit. But, the views on my last few trips up and around the fields in Isaan is that they are still solid reds.

I hold no flag in this, I have to work in the environment I have, and I don't see too much changing.

[jayjay0]

My understanding is that they survived on a technicality.

Will we ever know if the offense was as suggested.

What I wanted to know is did they or did they not commit the offense of not playing fairly.

Are they as corrupt as the other parties that have been dissolved?

The answer to your final question is NO. (There are dirty politicians in EVERY party --- but by and large the ethics of the Dems are far better than other parties)

Did they commit the offense of making signs that were not exactly the correct size? Yes

Was it an offense that was punishable by dissolution? We don't know.

Even more to the point did it make a difference in the election. I highly doubt it. But it sure gave a bunch of red shirts hope.

Why do they allow petty little things like the size of a sign make such a big difference in the future of Thailand? I know TIT Some times they can be a bit on the maddening side.

Bottom line we now have a clear field ahead. A election and four years of growth. And no I don't mean growing corruption. If Abhist gets a big enough mandate he might have a chance to speed the process up.

[Piengrudee]

money talks   law walks

Can't agree more.

[Piengrudee]

It seems according to some (of the judges), the Electoral Commission didn't file their complaints in time to the Constitutional Court. Problem seems to be they had 2 meetings one in Dec 09 (or maybe it was Nov and the 15 day rule fell in Dec ??) and one in April 10. Whereas they did file within 15 days of the April meeting but not within the Dec. meeting. I don't quite see how the case could come so far when it wasn't in fact submitted in time. Surely this fault in the submission process would come up earlier. Does this mean that the 2 judges who voted the other way, in fact saw it fit that the 15 day deadline should refer to the EC meeting of Apr 10? If so what on earth are they doing if they can't even agree on a complaints submission process?

This is Thai. Mark is a good man, and Buddha is protecting him. Case close. The last Taksin was bad man, hence . . .

[Deeral]

name='Deeral' timestamp='1291040946' post='4055489']

PS - those of you who think that anyone who criticises tho incumbent are "Red" supporters are simply showing how incapable they are of understanding even a small part of the problems that beset Thailand.

Thank you.

Well said.

Thanks for your insight and input once again phil.

@Deeral ... that sentiment would also apply to those who criticise the PTP or red shirts. That doesn't make them yellow shirt supporters.

You're catching on!

Maybe you need to tell that to some of the other red shirt supporters anti-government posters on TVF.

maybe not, then?

[SergeiY]

That's the way I see it too. No one has been able to explain to me how the PTP will get into government.

So far, there hasn't been a back lash against the Democrats in any by-election. The PTP are losing MPs hand over fist.

Check the by-election of candidates who got yellow carded by the EC for 'vote - buying' issues.

[yellow1red1]

The same results as "last time" end up with a coalition government led by the Dems.

BJT and their people left PPP/PTP and more have defected since. Thaksin's hold on people like Newin and other regional bosses is no longer an issue. PTP ends up with 30% of the vote and Dems end up leading another coalition government.

That's the way I see it too. No one has been able to explain to me how the PTP will get into government.

So far, there hasn't been a back lash against the Democrats in any by-election. The PTP are losing MPs hand over fist.

How does anyone expect the PTP to win?

I suppose a re-organisation will come soon, combined with the traditional Thai money politic.

As observers we are guaranteed "interesting times ".

<< correct,, mark those words,,, for the past 80 the strongest Boss usually won power quickly [a few minor, shortly lived skirmishes, ending with some exhiles ]

also, a few gangland truces, mafia style sharing of the corruption pie.

This longer lasting stalemate between the Sondhi and Thaksin forces is an anomally, with some external causes that cannot be discussed, openly.

The pig trough has been buffeted and look for the Sanans and Newins to work on reconciliation and "getting back to normal".

They WILL call it democracy. HARDY HAR HAR!

[Throatwobbler]

PS - those of you who think that anyone who criticises tho incumbent are "Red" supporters are simply showing how incapable they are of understanding even a small part of the problems that beset Thailand.

Thank you.

Well said.

Pretty much the same arguments we heard from red supporters earlier in the year. If you didn't agree with the red's protest then you must be yellow and support the rich. I read that argument countless times on here. So many people want to paint in black and white what is clearly a multi coloured issue, no pun intended. Personally i think both the red and yellow leaders are idiots and the country would be best off without them all.

[Throatwobbler]

'precisely'? I dont think so...

So your suggesting that anyone that critises the PTP or red shirts are yellow shirt supporters?

Then you would also have to say that anyone that critises the government or yellow shirts is a red shirt supporter.

Otherwise it would be Double Standards.

you mean 'you're' not 'your'? so you link the government with yellow shirts? nice to hear the truth at last!

Oh my god you're a joke.

Before you reply to posts I suggest you read them carefully and understand what is being said. If you did that before you posted you would give yourself a lot more credibility.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Throatwobbler

[SergeiY]

If to vote Democrat is a "massive risk personally" then it begs the question ... why have elections? If you are threatened or abused because of voting your conscience in the "red" zones ....... then they certainly are not practicing any form of democracy!

But you are correct --- there won't be much change in the next elections. The Dems will likely hold the ruling coalition together.

It is village/group mentality that is seen the world over in the developing world. No one wants to stand out, and pretending that everyone's vote is entirely secret is an anathema. It would be no different down South if someone voted PTP. I have seen a discussion start in Nong Rua west of Khon Kaen as a decent political discussion between two people and it has escalated into a very heated debate among 10, with people spitting venom. It just isn't going to happen, and the parties as they stand today haven't had a chance to spread their influence. But then, when did the Dems ever have any real influence in the PTP strongholds?

Just look at the election results of 2007, the party list vote. In central, north, north east people voted people voted for all the different parties, a diversity of political opinions. Except in the south there they vote almost only for one party (over 80%) and nothing else.

The best result for PPP in north-north east was 66%. In the north they were little below 50%.

[phiphidon]

It seems according to some (of the judges), the Electoral Commission didn't file their complaints in time to the Constitutional Court. Problem seems to be they had 2 meetings one in Dec 09 (or maybe it was Nov and the 15 day rule fell in Dec ??) and one in April 10. Whereas they did file within 15 days of the April meeting but not within the Dec. meeting.

The EC acknowledged the allegation on December 17, 2009.

They have 15 days after that day to file charges.

The complaint was filed by the EC with the court on April 21, 2010.

One of the first (no doubt of many) explanations of the outcome can be seen here and sounds quite plausible. In particular it notes that the second EC case for dissolution may not be affected by the submission timeline applied to the first case.

http://asiancorrespo...t-the-democrats

[bf2002]

Abhsit haters will decry this, but the man is the best PM we've had in 10 years, and (while not perfect by a long shot), is a hell of a lot better to any PTP mouthbreather as PM (or Sanan, or Sanoh, or any of the other marshmellows).

Oldest party keeps getting older. Look for house dissolution in April, and current coalition wins majority and is back until at least 2014. :jap:

Whoever supports whoever aside, are you in touch with the Thai masses or their thoughts?

Those poor masses have voted 2 times to not support the Democrats. In what world do they have a chance except with a coalition govt?

A vote against Thaksin may win in the next election, but it won't be a vote for the Democrats or yellows (which are as synonymous with the reds and Thaksin and whatever his party is now called). It'll be a coalition or another coup/manipulation of the system to get the reds out and the yellows in again.

They already lost the position as the economic leader of SE Asia (not counting Singapore of coarse which is always on top but tiny). What's another rigged election, rigged party or govt downfall, or coup?

[Nowhereman60]

Why did the court accept the case in the first place if it was late in filing the case. Seems like a waste of tax payer money. Justice once again is never served in Thailand.

[whybother]

'precisely'? I dont think so...

So your suggesting that anyone that critises the PTP or red shirts are yellow shirt supporters?

Then you would also have to say that anyone that critises the government or yellow shirts is a red shirt supporter.

Otherwise it would be Double Standards.

you mean 'you're' not 'your'? so you link the government with yellow shirts? nice to hear the truth at last!

Red shirt supporters seem to think the government and the yellow shirts are in bed together.

But the only link that I suggested was that they are not red shirts.

(apologies for the typo ... are you correcting me because I rarely use a wrong word or make a spelling mistake, or do you go around correcting every spelling mistake or typo that you see?)

[whybother]

That's the way I see it too. No one has been able to explain to me how the PTP will get into government.

So far, there hasn't been a back lash against the Democrats in any by-election. The PTP are losing MPs hand over fist.

Check the by-election of candidates who got yellow carded by the EC for 'vote - buying' issues.

Yes. From what I remember, the Democrats actually gained some seats in by-elections that the PPP had won in the general election.

I remember looking into it earlier in the year, but forget the exact details, or where I saw them.

[whybother]

Abhsit haters will decry this, but the man is the best PM we've had in 10 years, and (while not perfect by a long shot), is a hell of a lot better to any PTP mouthbreather as PM (or Sanan, or Sanoh, or any of the other marshmellows).

Oldest party keeps getting older. Look for house dissolution in April, and current coalition wins majority and is back until at least 2014. :jap:

Whoever supports whoever aside, are you in touch with the Thai masses or their thoughts?

Those poor masses have voted 2 times to not support the Democrats. In what world do they have a chance except with a coalition govt?

A vote against Thaksin may win in the next election, but it won't be a vote for the Democrats or yellows (which are as synonymous with the reds and Thaksin and whatever his party is now called). It'll be a coalition or another coup/manipulation of the system to get the reds out and the yellows in again.

They already lost the position as the economic leader of SE Asia (not counting Singapore of coarse which is always on top but tiny). What's another rigged election, rigged party or govt downfall, or coup?

The masses voted many times not to support many parties.

But, please remember, in the 2007 election, the PPP got into government because they formed a coalition. In 2001, the TRT got into government because they formed a coalition. In 2005, the TRT bought the coalition parties into the fold before the election, so they won a majority. And the reason the TRT didn't win the 2006 election was because it was invalidated because it was considered rigged.

[thaihome]

Why did the court accept the case in the first place if it was late in filing the case. Seems like a waste of tax payer money. Justice once again is never served in Thailand.

Anti-government protesters force their way into Thailand's Election Commission building in Bangkok April 5, 2010. Hundreds of anti-government protesters forced their way into Thailand's Election Commission building on Monday.

[ChiangMaiFun]

It seems according to some (of the judges), the Electoral Commission didn't file their complaints in time to the Constitutional Court. Problem seems to be they had 2 meetings one in Dec 09 (or maybe it was Nov and the 15 day rule fell in Dec ??) and one in April 10. Whereas they did file within 15 days of the April meeting but not within the Dec. meeting. I don't quite see how the case could come so far when it wasn't in fact submitted in time. Surely this fault in the submission process would come up earlier. Does this mean that the 2 judges who voted the other way, in fact saw it fit that the 15 day deadline should refer to the EC meeting of Apr 10? If so what on earth are they doing if they can't even agree on a complaints submission process?

This is Thai. Mark is a good man, and Buddha is protecting him. Case close. The last Taksin was bad man, hence . . .

Don't bring Buddha into it - it's politics and I doubt very much that Buddha is keeping tabs on it