Are Many Guesthouses Full During High Season ?

[Danlo]

You should do your homework long before buying and asking questions on a forum, the first fail I would suggest that was your Lady pressuring you to buy it ? and the rent for that amount of rooms is too high.

I wont go on as I have not read all the posts yet but good luck.

[gk10002000]

I always applaud individual initiative and people that try to go into business. However, too many assume more risk than the reward or potential reward justifies. I have been to Thailand 10 times and looked at several possible businesses. Some can generate some income, maybe even enough to live comfortably. However, most have, in my opinion, involved too many burdens on the new owner. I am an engineer and have looked at several things in the USA also. But instead, I elected to invest my money in many many bonds, and in my regular tax liable brokerage account, most of the bonds are tax free municipal bonds or bond funds. Do I get a "high" rate of return"? No. but the average is about 4.5% tax free. I could be taking out property mortgages, buying real estate and renting etc. But my engineering job is still a sure thing and pays well, and I decided to avoid the hassle of people dealings and just accrue more funds and generate more income.

I hear all the stories about Thailand, or even in the USA and the wife or girl friend pressuring the guy to buy something to keep her busy. WRONG REASON TO DO ANYTHING. RED FLAG. BEWARE. I actually have a family restaurant background (2 of them) for 7 years while I was in college. I can't tell you how many people or couples got involved with a restaurant, bought it, customized it as the wife or girlfriend wanted it, spent all their capital etc. Places looked nice, but were not functional, girl got involved with managing even though she had no experience leading or managing anything.

Run away! Buy some bonds. If wife doesn't like it, well, so be it.

[morphious]

Ok post closed ( please you lovely mods )

Dmax said hes made a mistake loosing his deposit so get off his back, go and complain to to the supermarkets that a small piece of cheese should not be 275 baht <deleted>

Beers are on you pal especially when ya come back from the rigs!

[Rimmer]

Its an interesting thread people are still relating their personal experiences, as interest in the topic dies it will slide down the page and disappear on to page two and beyond.

I have to give dmax top marks for listening and acting on all the advice

[changnaam]

Ok post closed ( please you lovely mods )

Dmax said hes made a mistake loosing his deposit so get off his back, go and complain to to the supermarkets that a small piece of cheese should not be 275 baht <deleted>

Beers are on you pal especially when ya come back from the rigs!

Yeah totally agree, the guy took a lot of flak on here and was man enough to come back on and admit his mistake, front up to his wife and pull out of the deal. Time to give him a bit of credit instead of continuing to berate him.

All the best on the rigs Dmax, save that cash, try to create an income for you and the family (maybe outside Thailand) then come here with money you can walk away from and start something small which you are not reliant on for living.

[actiondell4]

It's a very scary thought to lose everything and head back to the UK as a "bum" living in a Salvo Army Hostel.

I think your Dad may be experienced,how did he lose the business,what regrets does he have,where is he now ?

10 years is a long time looking for a business.

[cardholder]

Ok post closed ( please you lovely mods )

Dmax said hes made a mistake loosing his deposit so get off his back, go and complain to to the supermarkets that a small piece of cheese should not be 275 baht <deleted>

Beers are on you pal especially when ya come back from the rigs!

Yeah totally agree, the guy took a lot of flak on here and was man enough to come back on and admit his mistake, front up to his wife and pull out of the deal. Time to give him a bit of credit instead of continuing to berate him.

All the best on the rigs Dmax, save that cash, try to create an income for you and the family (maybe outside Thailand) then come here with money you can walk away from and start something small which you are not reliant on for living.

Hear, hear.

Bigger balls than many who posted on here.

[cardholder]

It seems that the OP has been pushed into this venture by his woman.

You have only paid the deposit so I would back off this plan and sacrifice the deposit safe in the knowledge in the long term you are saving money.

Most Thai women i have known will try and push you into some silly business because they think it is a good idea.

My girl hassled me for years to buy a business in Pattaya and I decided to acquiesce and gave her 60K baht for a shop front selling food in soi 4 off second road. I told her i reckoned she would only last three months and low and behold it was almost three months to the day that the business folded.

It was however a wise 60k investment for me because when she started pestering me to buy a bar at one time and then a laundry I pointed out her failure on the previous venture as sound reason to forget about any more business ventures in Pattaya as we would be better off spending the money on ourselves instead.

well there was a certain amount of pressure from the mrs i will be honest there with you. and she gave her thai gold as deposit so now im pulling the plug on this idea as its only 50-000 baht, would rather walk away from 50k than 2 mill or more !!! im getting it in the ear now but it will only last for a day or two.

i will definately be giving a lot more thought on anything else in the future, and not make rash decisions whilst half drunk and listening to my wife yes i have learnt a lesson here, and that is the 3 t,s , think hard , think long , think twice !!

just hate the thoughts of spending time back in uk , fkin hate the place !!

anyway thanks to all who gave me some positive advice

What was the straw that broke the camels back and you changed your mind? Electric cost? Projected occupancy? What was the one thing that pushed you from positive to negative?

it was the thought of going back to the uk next year skint staying in a sally army hostel with no wife or kid or job, i listened to the advice on here, i summed up the electricity costs wrong for a start, also the occupancy rate, like i say i have been constantly looking for somewhere for 10 years now wether its a shop in isaan or a guesthouse, just never fancied a beer bar , seen my dad come here 5 years ago after selling his business and house, he bought a bar on walking street, he lived like a king for 2 years then next thing he was back in uk broke and divorced, i dont want that to happen to me, also i got some work ( hopefully ) coming up on rigs offshore in holland in feb so fingers crossed, my wife lost 50-000 deposit in gold, she will get it back, would rather lose 50k than 2-3 mill baht !!!

LESSON LEARNT !! thanks everyone for your advice.

In my part of Isaan a guy has just rented a double shop house with 3 storeys and an open roof top, nearly 600 sqm in all, for 6,000 Baht p.m. on a 3+3+3 rental.

Now with a cost-base starting at that sort of figure you don't have to sell too many pizzas/burgers/beers/noodles/somtam to break-even.

[dmax]

It's a very scary thought to lose everything and head back to the UK as a "bum" living in a Salvo Army Hostel.

I think your Dad may be experienced,how did he lose the business,what regrets does he have,where is he now ?

10 years is a long time looking for a business.

12 years been in thailand at least twice a year but looking for something for around 10 years of that time just to enable me to stay, 3 years ago i had 5.5 mill baht to invest, met a guy ( vince) tsba , he is originally from belfast . n.i. i met him with his colleague, both looked smart in their suits and laptops etc, great talkers , told him i did not want a bar just something easily run, cut a long story short he told me he had a great jet ski business on the beach for 3 mill thb, with speed boat, banana boat, rings, 3 jet ski,s , tours to koh larn etc, turned out after a while and some investigation on my part that there was no jet ski business on beach , it was a scam from day one. there was an english brummie guy also involved in this scam, i wont mention his name as he maybe still in pattaya but the guy vince is in australia now apparently. another company evans marketing ( wheres charles evans now ) last i heard from he was in sihanoukville cambodia, he tried to sell me an irish bar just down street from freedom bar, little did he know i was in koh kong a week before speaking to the irish owner who was selling the place for less than a third of what charles was asking me for. anyway back then in pattaya they were trying to sell me gogo bars, beer bars etc, they all spoke great and were very convincing, i still didnt jump in and buy even though the pound was 73 to the baht !!! i knew the gogo , beer bar business is not something to jump head first into, so what im saying is that im not that gullable. i also read the story of the french guy who bought a gogo for 5 mill but didnt even keep enough money in his pocket for low season and went bust after only 2 months as he couldnt pay all the girls. i just dont know what it was about this place on soi bukaew, i had a good feeling about it. i had it in my head that i could rent the rooms out at least all of them hi season as i have many friends come to stay in soi bukaew, not cheap charlies !!! guys who spend good money !! it was a new renovated building , all rooms with balconies etc, lets say i was 50-50 but my wife swung me head was teling me no, heart was telling me i couldnt face life back in this shthole

my dad bought a bar on walking st , soi 16 , he paid key money for 3 yrs up front plus 3 mths rent up front, 35 k per mth, that was 4-5 yrs ago. i noticed from the start it was going to go downhill, he couldnt play his own music, the two thai owners on each side of him blasted out that thai techno shit all day, who want s to sit in a bar and listen to that ? not me anyway. so without customers to sit in your bar and listen to this your bar goes downhill whilst the thai/chinese landlord has your key money pocketed waiting on you going BUST, takes the bar off you and so the it goes onto another fool, round and round and round, another thing was he stayed in holiday mode and was spending more than he was making, big big mistake i know !!! then his cashier with the blessing of his wife was ripping customers off with their bills, my dad did not know this, the cashier gave me a bill one night , it looked like the beers were 40 baht but when i handed bill in the beers were 70 baht , the sneaker bas****s made the number 7 look like a 4 on the bill tabs, you will probably have noticed this yourselves sometime. another night i was very drunk and rang the bell, there was 5 girls working , maybe 4 costumers, i calculated it wouldnt be too much, anyway i had a few more then cashier handed me a bill for 7-000 something baht, i hit the roof, called my dad a <deleted> for putting up with this shit and paid up cursing his wife and cashier, an hour later the wife called to my hotel and told me it was 4.000 baht instead of 7,000 hahaha ( same old trick ) . anyway they walked all over him , he was niave and he regrets getting involved in the bar business.

what can i do to enable me to stay in los ? well im 43 now, going to save my boll**cks off for a few years, hopefully by the time im 50 i will be relaxed enough to live up in my house in isaan and put money into something smaller in udon or khon kaen just to tick me over.

[JAM1E]

Think this has been a very good thread and the OP got some good advice. I think he made the right decision in the end.

Good luck and If you do get a bar let us all know.

Jam1e

[cardholder]

A couple of observations that apply to previous experiences - and this thread.

Cobblers to their own:- If you know f*all about running a bar or a jet-ski operation don't bloody well do it. The only people to make money out of these businesses are the ones who can sell 'the dream' or an 'image'. Take a beer bbar, tart it up, call in rent a crowd and sell it to some mug for 1 mil more than you paid for it.

Think small: If you mix with Jack the lads in Pattaya you are likely to get turned over. They are better at this game than you are and there will only ever be one loser. Don't think about making your fortune, think about what there might be out there that will enable you to enjoy your time in Thailand whilst not losing money. There is not a big choice !!

Do research/due diligence:- Was it really a surprise to Dmax's father that the Thais either side of his bar would drown him out ? How much time was physically spent watching what happened in the area - like watching 7 days a week 12 hours a day.

What makes you so good ? If somebody has failed with a bar/guesthouse/shop, what makes YOU think that you can do better than them ? They are not all w4nkers.

Do a business plan:- I don't care how thick you are put a written business plan together. Doesn't have to be a 50 page tome but WRITE DOWN at least 12 pages covering the key aspects of the business and what you are going to do with it. Include 3 years of financials with appropriate sensitivity analysis. BREAK-EVEN is the most important calculation you make. When complete, show it to someone in business/you trust (to tell you something straight/with a brain/etc.

Know when to quit: Dmax made a brave decision to back out of this transaction - spot on. It is too easy to pig-headedly stick with something because you think you are right. Listen to the voices in your and, more importantly, the voices of others.

Take advice from the right people: Don't look for the answer that you think you want. If you are not sure, at the age of 60, about starting a family with your 30 year old teerak ask both people you know who have been there and done it PLUS those that you know that hate children and have not done it.

Know your limitations - skill-wise and financially: If you have an unlimited pot of money then you can do what the heck you like. Most of us haven't and therefore have the learn and understand the principles of budgeting. I chose to start a business and spend 650,000 Baht establishing what I wanted. Having written that off as the cost of my project I knew that I needed to take 2,000 Baht a day to prevent me having to throw more money at it. I 'allocated' 100,000 for working capital and told myself that if that got used up I would cut and run and anything I salvaged from the 650k would be a bonus.

In short I was prepared to GBP 15,000 to try and start a business.

Fortunately, we have been going for almost 15 months and exceed my weekly break-even figure every week.

[Tolley]

The best advice i ever got was when i opened a bank account at the Kasikorn bank in Pattaya and the women who was doing the paperwork said and i quote 'I see many farangs come here and open accounts with millions of baht and then watch how all the money disappears'

The codds of making money in a business in Pattaya for a farang are extremely low.

[rayong09]

The best advice i ever got was when i opened a bank account at the Kasikorn bank in Pattaya and the women who was doing the paperwork said and i quote 'I see many farangs come here and open accounts with millions of baht and then watch how all the money disappears'

Which part was the advice?

[actiondell4]

Not all farang business's are failing.

AS one lovely young Irish real estate agent told me,if they are all failing,why,then oh why,are big companies moving in.

AND iM not just talking about hotels,im talking about medium sized companies such as MOLLY MALONES,MURPHYS,JAMESONS etc etc.

This business idea failing is a MYTH set by big operators.

No DMAX wouldn;t of made a profit,one reason,his rent was too high,had it been 50k a month,then ok,but rent was the main issue

Why dont you go back to landlord and tell him 40k per month first year and 50 k after that on a 5 year lease.

Edited December 3, 2010 by actiondell4

[therealmrbrightside]

DON'T INVEST ANY MONEY INTO A BUSINESS IN THAILAND THAT YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE..........

[dmax]

Not all farang business's are failing.

AS one lovely young Irish real estate agent told me,if they are all failing,why,then oh why,are big companies moving in.

AND iM not just talking about hotels,im talking about medium sized companies such as MOLLY MALONES,MURPHYS,JAMESONS etc etc.

This business idea failing is a MYTH set by big operators.

No DMAX wouldn;t of made a profit,one reason,his rent was too high,had it been 50k a month,then ok,but rent was the main issue

Why dont you go back to landlord and tell him 40k per month first year and 50 k after that on a 5 year lease.

<deleted> dont temp me to call him up again the wife was running round the house yesterday calling me kwai duen , kwai duen, like a woman possessed !!! after she called landlord asking for some deposit back, he put phone down on her , you know what theyre like when they lose their gold i took myself out to the bar untill late last night when i knew she would be in bed

[prefabs]

Dmax, here is an idea to make money. After reading your musings for a couple of years, both when in UK and over here, I reckon your story could be sold to one of these soap opera companies. You got everything. Funny, sad, drunk, sober, Isaan, UK, Pattaya.

You and your wife remind me of Stan and Hilda Ogden, also Jack and Vera Duckworth(apologies to non-UK readers) Please don't tell her I said that, though, she seems a little too formidable for me.

[pipo1000]

Not all farang business's are failing.

AS one lovely young Irish real estate agent told me,if they are all failing,why,then oh why,are big companies moving in.

AND iM not just talking about hotels,im talking about medium sized companies such as MOLLY MALONES,MURPHYS,JAMESONS etc etc.

This business idea failing is a MYTH set by big operators.

No DMAX wouldn;t of made a profit,one reason,his rent was too high,had it been 50k a month,then ok,but rent was the main issue

Why dont you go back to landlord and tell him 40k per month first year and 50 k after that on a 5 year lease.

<deleted> dont temp me to call him up again the wife was running round the house yesterday calling me kwai duen , kwai duen, like a woman possessed !!! after she called landlord asking for some deposit back, he put phone down on her , you know what theyre like when they lose their gold i took myself out to the bar untill late last night when i knew she would be in bed

Next time you better count the knifes in the kitchen drawer before you go sleep.

Edited December 3, 2010 by pipo1000

[Rimmer]

One inflammatory post deleted. if you can't be nice then don't post.

[lekatai]

Well I will post this and await the corrections/censorship of the mods ."Actiondell4" Absolute bullshit(nonsense)You live in a fantasy world if you think you can dictate to landlords what the rent should be."Big Companies moving in" Where are your facts to back up this ridiculous assertion.The fact is that rents are stupidly high in Pattaya,and the landlords are only existing on people paying sucker prices,because they don't know any better "the realm brightside" gives absolutely sound advice,and listen to "cardholder" as well.

[Danlo]

All Forums have thier share of Bull^*itters and people who talk crap and the 5 min experts, it keeps it light hearted for me, they are almost as funny as the guys who believe it all like reading the SUN newspaper, my favourite are the guys who say " I have lived in Thailand 20 years and go on to continually moan about everything, they have obviously forgotten what England is like these days.

[pipo1000]

Well I will post this and await the corrections/censorship of the mods ."Actiondell4" Absolute bullshit(nonsense)You live in a fantasy world if you think you can dictate to landlords what the rent should be."Big Companies moving in" Where are your facts to back up this ridiculous assertion.The fact is that rents are stupidly high in Pattaya,and the landlords are only existing on people paying sucker prices,because they don't know any better "the realm brightside" gives absolutely sound advice,and listen to "cardholder" as well.

Big company's are moving in as a fact but what most people forget is that they have a different philosophy from those one day millionaires that open a bar.

a- they don't come here for the cheap whore bar business but spend a few million on a start up of a bar or restaurant directed at the working expats and the one time tourists.

b- if they make a loss they don't cry about because they have several profitable business worldwide that consume that loss.If the loss get's too big they simply shut down and take it as a lesson..

Edited December 3, 2010 by pipo1000

[jori]

Well I will post this and await the corrections/censorship of the mods ."Actiondell4" Absolute bullshit(nonsense)You live in a fantasy world if you think you can dictate to landlords what the rent should be."Big Companies moving in" Where are your facts to back up this ridiculous assertion.The fact is that rents are stupidly high in Pattaya,and the landlords are only existing on people paying sucker prices,because they don't know any better "the realm brightside" gives absolutely sound advice,and listen to "cardholder" as well.

I think in conjunction with other threads Actiondell4 is trolling,fact is I know he is,still it gets you expressing opinions.

What you say is correct about stupidly high rents though,but a lot of people got caught out paying way over the odds on property here just a few years ago and what was in effect wasteland, especially on the darkside, that a few thousand bucks would throw something up that would then have cost 20 odd million... or for buying into multiple condos like they were going out of fashion just for the rental aspect that,that too is dying ,now its all come crashing down,cannot help people for not recognising that fact ,but I guess people want some money from their investments. The core market is finished,just the 2 or 3 weekers will suffice Pattaya

Go see the board in Carrefour for what 8 thousand or so you could rent for now,that figure will be down by a third I reckon after Christmas

Edited December 3, 2010 by jori

[dmax]

Dmax, here is an idea to make money. After reading your musings for a couple of years, both when in UK and over here, I reckon your story could be sold to one of these soap opera companies. You got everything. Funny, sad, drunk, sober, Isaan, UK, Pattaya.

You and your wife remind me of Stan and Hilda Ogden, also Jack and Vera Duckworth(apologies to non-UK readers) Please don't tell her I said that, though, she seems a little too formidable for me.

hi prefab,

glad to have brightened up your day by the way, the wife wants to know where you live

[prefabs]

Dmax, here is an idea to make money. After reading your musings for a couple of years, both when in UK and over here, I reckon your story could be sold to one of these soap opera companies. You got everything. Funny, sad, drunk, sober, Isaan, UK, Pattaya.

You and your wife remind me of Stan and Hilda Ogden, also Jack and Vera Duckworth(apologies to non-UK readers) Please don't tell her I said that, though, she seems a little too formidable for me.

hi prefab,

glad to have brightened up your day by the way, the wife wants to know where you live

emm, would Korat be far enough?

[BusyBee123]

Walking away with only a 50k loss has probably put you in the top 10% of most profitable companies in Patts, some would say you're a winner really

[gk10002000]

Dmax, here is an idea to make money. After reading your musings for a couple of years, both when in UK and over here, I reckon your story could be sold to one of these soap opera companies. You got everything. Funny, sad, drunk, sober, Isaan, UK, Pattaya.

You and your wife remind me of Stan and Hilda Ogden, also Jack and Vera Duckworth(apologies to non-UK readers) Please don't tell her I said that, though, she seems a little too formidable for me.

hi prefab,

glad to have brightened up your day by the way, the wife wants to know where you live

You know, the idea of a reality show is not a bad idea. International small business or individual investments or startups. I am sure there are many expats all over the world in many countries that could offer up examples. Buying land or propery, getting sued, communication and language issues, not to mention all the other things that can go into starting or buying a business in a foreign country. In a few cases focus on the personal side and show the couples breaking up for all the reasons that people have experienced. It could be a bit expensive to produce and document, but I would think that two small film crews and with a few million USD $$ in backing could spend a few weeks in a few countries and get some decent production together pretty quickly.

[Danlo]

I decided to stay on longer this Xmas and new year but my guest house was fully booked after my original check out date, I had a walk round and all the good to average places were full, I tried a few which were pretty poor so declined, tried the LK Metro Murphys law and those nearby were full, wouldn't go further as too noisy round by the Office and Champagne, great Go Go's by the way, ended up over 3rd road so all together not so bad.

[Danlo]

By the way DMax, your rent is ridiculous and the location will be the downfall IMO

[CheGuava]

I would pay 700 for a nice, modern, well kept room as long as it's somewhat of a hotel standard. Strangely I prefer the service of the older, 'actual hotels' in Pattaya over new startups that are coffeeshops, restaurants, bars, or worse, who opened some rooms upstairs. Even though the rooms in those older hotels may be somewhat worn, they offer some of the basics that I appreciate:

* 24 hour reception

* Safety deposit boxes and/or in-room safe.

* Elevator

* Wake up calls

* Restaurant and/or room service

* Swimming pool (though this is not a deal breaker)

* Hotelly atmosphere.

I dislike being issued with some ill fitting key for a steel door that I have to use to get into my room at 2am, up some dodgy stairs. I mean, I would, but price wise it would need to be a bargain. Meaning 500 range more than 7-800 baht range.

HOWEVER, if this is truly a fun place, with cold girls and cheap beers, and coffee and croissants in the morning, then I AM open to staying in such a place. 700 baht is definitely in the right ballpark.