Law Firm To Handle House Purchase

[petercallen]

Any recommendations for a good law firm to check and arrange the purchase of

house would be much appreciated

I know this has been discussed before but cannot remember which topic..

We have not found the house we want yet but have seen some good buys and a

lot of overpriced ones, it pays to be patient and have a good look around there are

genuine sellers out there

[Wellington]

I presume you want an honest lawyer!

We have used www.avocatslawyers.net

in Royal Place (opposite main Tesco/Lotus

and found him quick,intelligent and not silly prices.

he has done two contracts for us in last year.

Can give you name and 'phone if you pm me.

[katabeachbum]

I presume you want an honest lawyer!

We have used www.avocatslawyers.net

in Royal Place (opposite main Tesco/Lotus

and found him quick,intelligent and not silly prices.

he has done two contracts for us in last year.

Can give you name and 'phone if you pm me.

IMHO a waste of money

1. Check if house is build according to buildingpermit, IOW legal structure, each page of buildingpermit is stamped and signed by Tessabaan, approx 40 pages.

2. Check if Chanote/NS3G is clear, and you are actually dealing with the owner, check if the one filed in Land office is identical

3. Demand Tabien Baan to be without residents before paying. Takes 6 months and bunch of hazzle to get rid of them after transfer is completed

4. Pay when land office accepts transfer and title is issued with new owners name, with a cashier check issued to registered owner at Land office

Most lawyers never check no 1 cause its complicated work, the land title is peace of cake to check.

Most lawyers arent bothered with no 3, but its kinda boring to have finacecompanies wanting to repos on your new adress

If you want lease or usufruct, I do recommend use a lawyer and not bring the future "Owner" when disussing content of such arrangement

[LivinLOS]

2. Check if Chanote/NS3G is clear, and you are actually dealing with the owner, check if the one filed in Land office is identical

How do you as a farang do this tho.. So many bent land titles on the west coast, hangovers from the land scandals that brought down the democrat government last time.. Even large companies like the one on the way to Kamala with those villas get caught out.

Multiple times I found 'cheap' land deals.. Then after having due diligence work done being told that it was high risk even tho it had NS3G at the time. Still cheap land past blue point if you want the risk.

[katabeachbum]

2. Check if Chanote/NS3G is clear, and you are actually dealing with the owner, check if the one filed in Land office is identical

How do you as a farang do this tho.. So many bent land titles on the west coast, hangovers from the land scandals that brought down the democrat government last time.. Even large companies like the one on the way to Kamala with those villas get caught out.

Multiple times I found 'cheap' land deals.. Then after having due diligence work done being told that it was high risk even tho it had NS3G at the time. Still cheap land past blue point if you want the risk.

agree on this one, but thats not where most buyers are looking.

also be aware of the 80 meters building restriction, must be checked by GPS before purchase

and both are ignored by most lawyers

What I meant with "clear" is no debt/lease/usufruct or locals having right of way for years

[Pi Sek]

I would have to disagree that a lawyer is a waste of time, unless you have experience in buying several (hundred) Thai properties already. Same with estate agencies.

However, separating the lawyers and agents who don't do all the due diligence and checks with the competent ones that do is very very difficult. There are too many cowboy lawyers, many of whom who don't know the Law very well at all... but I would add that they are generally more incompetent than they are dishonest.

Also, just because a law firm has a nice office and a long history of business, it doesn't necessarily mean that their service will be up to scratch. I can think of a few law firms (Phuket and elsewhere) who gained a great reputation in their first few years of business and then "expanded" at the expense of the service offered to their clients. Short term profit lines are higher but the reputation goes down the toilet and they end up having to lay off anyone in the firm with a brain.

[petercallen]

I have always used settlement agents when purchasing property who are legally obliged

to check out the title deed and make sure its free and clear of any caveats etc.

They do not exist here, That's why i asked about reliable, trustworthy law firms here who

do there job properly, from what i have been told some do not.

Wellington has recommended one he is happy with, i would also like to know if anyone has

used a law firm they are unhappy with so i can avoid them

[katabeachbum]

I have always used settlement agents when purchasing property who are legally obliged

to check out the title deed and make sure its free and clear of any caveats etc.

They do not exist here, That's why i asked about reliable, trustworthy law firms here who

do there job properly, from what i have been told some do not.

Wellington has recommended one he is happy with, i would also like to know if anyone has

used a law firm they are unhappy with so i can avoid them

Must say I have yet to see a law firm in Phuket conducting due diligence by inspecting the actual house/land to check if its below 80 meters and build according to buildingpermit, IOW legal structure. I know several 20 mill baht houses, with double the sqm of buildingpermit, IOW half the house is illegal.

This is more like survey work, and most lawyers can probably not even read the plans of a buildingpermit

Using a lawyer can create a false feeling of security, could be expensive security

[thaiwanderer]

I have always used settlement agents when purchasing property who are legally obliged

to check out the title deed and make sure its free and clear of any caveats etc.

They do not exist here, That's why i asked about reliable, trustworthy law firms here who

do there job properly, from what i have been told some do not.

Wellington has recommended one he is happy with, i would also like to know if anyone has

used a law firm they are unhappy with so i can avoid them

Must say I have yet to see a law firm in Phuket conducting due diligence by inspecting the actual house/land to check if its below 80 meters and build according to buildingpermit, IOW legal structure. I know several 20 mill baht houses, with double the sqm of buildingpermit, IOW half the house is illegal.

This is more like survey work, and most lawyers can probably not even read the plans of a buildingpermit

Using a lawyer can create a false feeling of security, could be expensive security

They mustn't exist then if yoiu haven't seen them?

In fact the good ones do this and a lot more besides.

but then again they aren't cheap.

Edited December 2, 2010 by thaiwanderer

[LivinLOS]

Part of the issue tho is there are no rules as all rules are (paid) to be broken..

Take the 80m limit.. We all know its a farce and building continues up as high as 120 commonly.. The further over the higher the fees to get the pass but a pass none the less is issued.

We looked at land right on the edge.. I took my own GPS with a atmospheric altimeter and surveyed the plot.. Putting it at a couple of meters over 80 but as the enhanced GPS signals are not available here and secondly as no on in authority ever was able to confidently state the issues of GeoID and mean sea level the whole argument becomes a bit moot.. Basically the 80m level is where they say it is no matter what measurement devices are used.

When we looked at this parcel of Patong hillside the purchaser had a guy from Kathu tessabaan come to provide a different indepenant idea from Patongs (he had to pay him for the time of course).. He arrived with the oldest cheapest etrex gps, that wouldnt give a fix within 20m.. Was bouncing from high 60's to low 90's and his response was "what did the Patong tessabaan say it was ??" and once told decided he would just agree with that. Ultimately it was developed (even tho it was stated as being over) and since then other buildings are now approved behind it and higher up..

How can a lawyer properly answer that question ?? He can tell you what a good quality GPS will tell you, but the fusging is all down to which way the wind blows in the tessabaans office. Its just the same shades of grey as every other legal position.

[stevenl]

They mustn't exist then if yoiu haven't seen them?

In fact the good ones do this and a lot more besides.

but then again they aren't cheap.

Since you know they exist, maybe you can give the op a name? he is looking for one.

[petercallen]

Saying most Thai lawyers cannot do there job properly is a bit like saying,

All farangs here are honest and trustworthy and wont rip you of if they get a chance.

[katabeachbum]

They mustn't exist then if yoiu haven't seen them?

In fact the good ones do this and a lot more besides.

but then again they aren't cheap.

Since you know they exist, maybe you can give the op a name? he is looking for one.

yepp thaiwanderer, if you really know lawyers who check stuctures legality(height,size, design, setback, wastetreatment) and buildingheight in addition to the simple stuff like legality of land title, I would like to know of them too

[petercallen]

They mustn't exist then if yoiu haven't seen them?

In fact the good ones do this and a lot more besides.

but then again they aren't cheap.

Since you know they exist, maybe you can give the op a name? he is looking for one.

yepp thaiwanderer, if you really know lawyers who check stuctures legality(height,size, design, setback, wastetreatment) and buildingheight in addition to the simple stuff like legality of land title, I would like to know of them too

Do they do all the things you mention anywhere KBB.

They should check out legality of land title and make sure there are no mortgages etc against it.

Its the selling agents job to check most of the other things mentioned where i come from.

Here its very much BUYER BEWARE even when buying through a agent.

As far as waste water treatment is concerned can you tell me where any sewerage treatment plants are situated on the island

[petercallen]

Setback is another interesting question.

Does it apply to private roads as well as government roads.

From what i have seen with private roads in the south of the island it certainly does not.

In the north of the island where most of the development is new they have decent road reserves

which allows for widening of the government roads the houses are set back.

The government road reserves in the older areas are so narrow there is no room for a footpath

and the houses/ businesses are not set back, although they probably were in the ox cart days

[katabeachbum]

They mustn't exist then if yoiu haven't seen them?

In fact the good ones do this and a lot more besides.

but then again they aren't cheap.

Since you know they exist, maybe you can give the op a name? he is looking for one.

yepp thaiwanderer, if you really know lawyers who check stuctures legality(height,size, design, setback, wastetreatment) and buildingheight in addition to the simple stuff like legality of land title, I would like to know of them too

Do they do all the things you mention anywhere KBB.

They should check out legality of land title and make sure there are no mortgages etc against it.

Its the selling agents job to check most of the other things mentioned where i come from.

Here its very much BUYER BEWARE even when buying through a agent.

As far as waste water treatment is concerned can you tell me where any sewerage treatment plants are situated on the island

toilets are cleaned though own septic tank, and allowed outlet is as I recal 5ppm, rather clean. However many houses are illegal on this point.

Kitchen drains go through a grease trap, however many houses are illegal on this

waste water from housing is treated in different locations

hotels must treat their own waste water

[katabeachbum]

Setback is another interesting question.

Does it apply to private roads as well as government roads.

From what i have seen with private roads in the south of the island it certainly does not.

In the north of the island where most of the development is new they have decent road reserves

which allows for widening of the government roads the houses are set back.

The government road reserves in the older areas are so narrow there is no room for a footpath

and the houses/ businesses are not set back, although they probably were in the ox cart days

set back is same for public and private roads, and klongs and propertylines

set back for roads differ on how wide the road is, its measured from center of road and from road property line

[thaiwanderer]

While I imagine many will raise horror stories etc, my foreign friends have had very good service and wideranging due dilligence from 3 'foreign' firms - 1. limcharoen / 2. mcevilly / 3. tilleke.

(I'm suprised by talk of checking who owns the land and if there's a mortgage as if that somehow is anywhere near a cpomprehensive view on what needs to be done of the legal title alone).

They aren't cheap and you'll need to discuss with them exactly what you want.

I have heard it said firms like these essentially offer an expensive translation service and foreign 'consultants' pass on the work to thai lawyer underlings etc

However unless you are used to doing business in Thailand generally these sorts of firms provide the best interface to ensure you get everything you want.

Edited December 3, 2010 by thaiwanderer

[petercallen]

Many thanks to the people who recommended which law firms to use and not to use.

After spending the last 2 weeks looking at houses we have decided there is no reason

to buy at present unless we find exactly what we want at the price we are prepared to pay.

As far as housing estates are concerned the best value for money is in the Thalang area.

There you can buy a better quality house for half the cost of a similar house in the Chalong area

The infrastructure, roads etc are far better in the north of the island.

There are lots of completed houses in all areas and most estates have gone into caretaker

mode.because they cannot sell the completed houses so they are not finishing houses that are half built.

Its a buyers market and by waiting its only going to become more so.