Garbage Burning... How To Make Them Change ?

[Ned]

Don't interfere with these people. The more invisible you stay , the better. Keep out of their shadow! Seriously. Say hello and smile by all means.....but don't tell them what to do in their territory. You may not be aware but we aren't exactly the flavour of the month. A lot of people would like to see the back of us as it is.

[drtreelove]

There is an organized effort through the International Citizens of Chiang Mai www.ourchiangmai.com Some Thai and expat members have been making inroads with the mayors office, Royal Forestry Dept and other agencies. Get on board with ICCM and help approach the pollution and burning issues in an organized, intelligent manner that is not offensive or antagonistic.

Edited December 7, 2010 by drtreelove

[cmsally]

I don't agree that its part of the culture. In town I'm surrounded by business owners, retired govt officials, doctors, teachers etc and surprise surprise, no one burns their rubbish.

There are also out of town areas I know of where they restrict it with a good village headman in charge. In an out of town area things are quite structured and you need to convince the right people for it to work.

[bangkokcitylimits]

There is an organized effort through the International Citizens of Chiang Mai www.ourchiangmai.com Some Thai and expat members have been making inroads with the mayors office, Royal Forestry Dept and other agencies. Get on board with ICCM and help approach the pollution and burning issues in an organized, intelligent manner that is not offensive or antagonistic.

Although reciding here for 12+ years, I have never heard of this initiative and it does sound very good, I had a look already. This is the kind of positive, forward thinking that can help this country forward, in stead of the retarded responses from some previous posters. Those zombie-like people just show they don't care about this country at all, just stay safely in the 'consuming modus' and maintaining the delusion of 'the Thais vs 'us farangs who don't belong here' in stead of participating on a positive way...

It's good that this website (screenshot below) via this treat get's some extra attention !

Edited December 7, 2010 by sbk
flame removed-mind your manners

[caf]

I don't agree that its part of the culture. In town I'm surrounded by business owners, retired govt officials, doctors, teachers etc and surprise surprise, no one burns their rubbish.

There are also out of town areas I know of where they restrict it with a good village headman in charge. In an out of town area things are quite structured and you need to convince the right people for it to work.

Hi-so people don't make up the bulk of the Thai people. And how many rural poo yai baan do you know.

Yours is certainly not my experience

[hml367]

deleted..... again not worth it...

MSPain

Edited December 7, 2010 by hml367

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The OurChiangMai initiative does look like a constructive effort.

People like to throw around the term Culture...

Just wondering how setting things on fire is part of a culture.. It seems more like a long ingrained bad habit with antisocial implications.

How does reducing burning damage or alter the culture? Maybe it's part of the culture because it scares away evil spirits.

"Culture is a definition highly misunderstood and misused, thus the need for an explanation:

Culture refers to the following Ways of Life, including but not limited to:

Language : the oldest human institution and the most sophisticated medium of expression.

Arts & Sciences : the most advanced and refined forms of human expression.

Thought : the ways in which people perceive, interpret, and understand the world around them.

Spirituality : the value system transmitted through generations for the inner well-being of human beings, expressed through language and actions.

Social activity : the shared pursuits within a cultural community, demonstrated in a variety of festivities and life-celebrating events.

Interaction : the social aspects of human contact, including the give-and-take of socialization, negotiation, protocol, and conventions.

All of the above collectively define the meaning of Culture. "

[SweeneyAgonistes]

Just wondering how setting things on fire is part of a culture.. It seems more like a long ingrained bad habit

Long - socially - ingrained habits is not a bad working definition of culture.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Just wondering how setting things on fire is part of a culture.. It seems more like a long ingrained bad habit

Long - socially - ingrained habits is not a bad working definition of culture.

Really doesn't do the concept of culture any justice. Read up on Culture. Culture has a long history of making change and adaptation for the benefit of societies. It's derived from the Latin meaning to Cultivate. Isn't Cultivation about growing?

culture wiki

[SweeneyAgonistes]

Really doesn't do the concept of culture any justice. Read up on Culture. Culture has a long history of making change and adaptation for the benefit of societies. It's derived from the Latin meaning to Cultivate. Isn't Cultivation about growing?

I have read up on culture. My wife's PhD was on Thai culture and learning. And, no, I wouldn't say culture is about 'growing'. It's about how we structure experience through socially-transmitted mechanisms.

[jayjay0]

I don't agree that its part of the culture. In town I'm surrounded by business owners, retired govt officials, doctors, teachers etc and surprise surprise, no one burns their rubbish.

There are also out of town areas I know of where they restrict it with a good village headman in charge. In an out of town area things are quite structured and you need to convince the right people for it to work.

Stop and think about it.

Why would you have to convince a certain person who has power to change things if it was not a part of there culture.

You are correct that to convince a powerful person would help.

But it goes farther than that. One would hope to be able to point out to them that all though it has been a custom for thousands of years the population has now grown to the point where it is harming there health. (make sure not to put it on a personal basis include every one your self included )

If some how they could understand that and were given a sensible alternative to burning it would go along way to solving the problem.

These idiots that talk about back home they don't do it and tell the Thai's they are wrong do it to feel good about themselves. If they in fact were to tell a Thai that they would just make the Thai more determined to do it.

That is the big problem with these type boards people just use them to hear them selves talk they don't have to think just post there nonsense and some one will buy it.

OK I am off the soap box NEXT

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Really doesn't do the concept of culture any justice. Read up on Culture. Culture has a long history of making change and adaptation for the benefit of societies. It's derived from the Latin meaning to Cultivate. Isn't Cultivation about growing?

I have read up on culture. My wife's PhD was on Thai culture and learning. And, no, I wouldn't say culture is about 'growing'. It's about how we structure experience through socially-transmitted mechanisms.

I think a reasonable and balanced person would conclude that growth is at least a significant part of culture... Culture is obviously a complex concept of many facets. Humans being so called higher life forms have used tools to transform their existence and experience. Tools being technologically which is a form of constant invention and progression. It's why we don't live in caves and roam around hunting each other anymore. Or I hope so anyway.

To not significantly include the driving concept of growth in the social history of cultural practices... I don't even know how that is possible.

[SweeneyAgonistes]

Because (i) growing implies some kind of aim and/or improvement, which doesn't really make much sense (growing is not the same as change) and (ii) it's not a universal feature of cultures. On tool use, there are many tool users in the non-human animal kingdom and chimpanzees clearly have culture - in the way in which the specific use of tools is transmitted socially - but I wouldn't describe chimpanzees as 'growing'...but perhaps I'm neither reasonable nor balanced.

Edited December 7, 2010 by SweeneyAgonistes

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Because (i) growing implies some kind of aim and/or improvement, which doesn't really make much sense (growing is not the same as change) and (ii) it's not a universal feature of cultures. On tool use, there are many tool users in the non-human animal kingdom and chimpanzees clearly have culture - in the way in which the specific use of tools is transmitted socially - but I wouldn't describe chimpanzees as 'growing'...but perhaps I'm neither reasonable nor balanced.

I think your arguing very narrow semantics...

As a person grows physically then your saying they don't change? When a person ages do they aim to grow?

Isn't growth a type of change? They are not mutually exclusive... Hey look at us humans using complex language tools to foster better understanding. It was not that long ago human tribes could only grunt at each other... More of that good old fashioned human cultural growth in action.

Culture is commonly used as a word for growth.

If your yogurt is not sterilized then it has active cultures because the bacteria is living and growing.

If your bread was made with living yeast culture then it will rise as the yeast produces CO2

If scientists are culturing proteins in a laboratory then they are growing living organisms and a controlled fashion.

A grain of sand in an oyster can grow eventually to be a cultured pearl

Unfortunately in the relative scheme of things the Thai culture highly values glacially slow change or growth.

[sbk]

Well. Argumentative today, aren't we? I don't really have the time to edit out people's nasty comments, both reported and unreported so I have just deleted the entire comment. Multiple posts have been deleted. In the future, if you want your post to stay, remember to bring your manners along to the forum and mind the rules, cheers

[mamborobert]

At the risk of incurring the eternal wrath (perhaps ironically by way of flames) I must admit that I am a part time domestic pyromaniac myself.I grew up in suburban Australia where even though there was (and still is weekly and now green collections) most houses along with the hills hoist in the back yard had an incinerator, and shock horror they were used (culturally or not I do not know), but be your neighbour of Greek/Macedonian/Slav/Italian or Irish, they were used pretty much by all. So perhaps its also a (perhaps dated) suburban Australian culture as well.

There was always some consideration for windage, whether it was Mrs Jones washing day (for smoke and ash), fire ban days, how long the fire would go on for etc but every few evenings, certainly at least once a week, we would fire it up. It was always great for getting rid of bulk stuff (say cardboard container for a new washing machine or fridge) or you would have it hanging round for weeks tearing of small pieces to fit in your weekly pick up when there was space. Otherwise you had to hoard, stuff for months, hire a trailer, and then compete with everyone else going to the tip, and now pay for the pleasure of disposing of said rubbish yourself in bulk.

They are quick and (and here comes the wrath) healthier and tidier than leaving rotten garbage in this heat or to be scattered by roaming dogs.

[sarahsbloke]

I also burned garbage whenever the weather was dry enough, in the UK.

In the Autumn everyone in my town would burn leaves.

I saw no problem with doing this, despite my education being tip-top.

[Dante99]

Sometimes it takes patience. In my village a few years ago, people did not want to pay a few baht for plastic bags for trash collection to stop the burning. Now they do not burn and buy the bags. Others from nearby villages also buy bags through the village and bring them over for collection. The cost of the bags is higher than in stores but includes money for collection and disposal.

[realthaideal]

Instant environmentally conscious Thai citizens - just add education of the youth and 30 years. It will happen eventually. But I wouldn't (er would/should) hold my breath in the meantime.

[uptheos]

I also burned garbage whenever the weather was dry enough, in the UK.

In the Autumn everyone in my town would burn leaves.

I saw no problem with doing this, despite my education being tip-top.

..............and don't forget Guy Fawkes night, goodness knows what was burned then.