Daughter Of British Nuclear Physicist Faces Death In Malaysia

[webfact]

Daughter of British nuclear physicist faces death in Malaysia

From ANDREW DRUMMOND, Bangkok

December 16 2010

Shivaun

The daughter of a former British nuclear health physicist faces the mandatory death sentence in Malaysia for drugs trafficking after a police raid on a holiday resort there.

A Malaysian police chief said today that Shivaun Patra Orton from Bangor, Wales, already faces life imprisonment on cannabis, amphetamine and ecstasy charges after a raid on a resort on the east coast of Peninsular Malaysia. But the mother of two, whose father worked at the Atomic Weapons Research Establishment Aldermaston. could also face death if she is implicated in a haul of 225 grams of heroin found nearby.

Shivaun Orton, 41, was arrested along with her Malaysian husband Abdul Harris Fadilah, 46, at the Ranting Resort which the couple run in Cherating, on the border of Pahang and Terengganu states Malaysia during a raid by officers of the Malaysian Narcotics Criminal Investigation Department.

Today the couple, who have two sons aged 14 and 16, were being held in Kemaman police station in Terengganu state and have been remanded in custody until Sunday. [...more]

story continues: http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2010/12/16/daughter-of-british-nuclear-physicist-faces-death-in-malaysia/

ANDREW-DRUMMOND.COM

-- 2010-12-16

[andrew55]

Another wasted life. So sad.

[MSingh]

Another wasted life. So sad.

I feel more sorry for the Kids..

[siam2007]

Another wasted life. So sad.

I feel more sorry for the Kids..

absolutely.

how horrible for them to see their Mom executed

[andrew55]

Another wasted life. So sad.

I feel more sorry for the Kids..

And other family, friends. A waste to so many people. Respect 'who cares?' post but I care and feel sad - I have trouble seeing the colours black and white . Becoming shades of grey...

[rakman]

Sounds like a nice "full service" resort..

[TheyCallmeScooter]

People should not kill people.

[andrew55]

People should not kill people.

Agreed. Even though drug dealers certainly kill people.

However, what would I do if someone raped my daughter? Killed my mother? Etc.?

Guess where you stand depends on where you sit.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

People should not kill people.

Agreed. Even though drug dealers certainly kill people.

However, what would I do if someone raped my daughter? Killed my mother? Etc.?

Guess where you stand depends on where you sit.

The state should definitely not be killing people.

But, can you expand on your claim? "drug dealers certainly kill people". Yes, of course. Tax accountants certainly kill people. Flight attendants certainly kill people. Can you be more specific?

Do all drug dealers kill? What is their choice of weapons, I assume you mean with their drugs?

Who has Ms Orton killed, specifically? Or are you saying "chances are, she has"...can we get a % on those chances?

[andrew55]

People should not kill people.

Agreed. Even though drug dealers certainly kill people.

However, what would I do if someone raped my daughter? Killed my mother? Etc.?

Guess where you stand depends on where you sit.

The state should definitely not be killing people.

But, can you expand on your claim? "drug dealers certainly kill people". Yes, of course. Tax accountants certainly kill people. Flight attendants certainly kill people. Can you be more specific?

Do all drug dealers kill? What is their choice of weapons, I assume you mean with their drugs?

Who has Ms Orton killed, specifically? Or are you saying "chances are, she has"...can we get a % on those chances?

Thanks for reply TheyCallmeScooter. Appreciate you asking for more qualification.

Guess I am saying "chances are". % - no idea. I am suggesting that as a group drug dealers kill. Proximity up to your own judgement. No demand - no sale. I do consider them merchants of death. As is someone who produces tobacco products. Arms manufacturers. Sure the people you mention kill, but these are individual crimes. I have no statistic, but surely you'd agree that vocations I have used as examples responsible for more deaths than your examples.

IMHO.

**I certainly believe corporal and capital punishment to be barbaric and wrong.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Guess I am saying "chances are". % - no idea. I am suggesting that as a group drug dealers kill. Proximity up to your own judgement.

As a group, almost everyone is a killer.

As a group, 41 year olds kill. Proximity is up to proximity, indictable evidence is brought to trial, guilt is determined by a judge. First let's assess proximity, then hopefully someone less lazy than I will collate the evidence, and - who knows - maybe someone vastly more courageous than I might indict the Malaysian government for their crimes.

Ms Orden might be a killer. I might be a killer. You might be a killer. But I have not called you one, because there is no reason to suggest you are one. You've implied Ms Orden is one, by virtue of her middleman involvement on the border, temporarily passing along drugs which the Malaysian government has deemed to be "evil" without any research. The fact is, they are 'evil'. And, credit to the Malaysian government, they are one of the very few in the world who didn't carve out a ludicrous hypocrisy for alcohol. But LOL, why did this 'evil' get overlooked in the quest to incarcerate and execute?

MALAYSIA

• About half of all Malaysian men smoke.
• Studies show about 30% of adolescent boys (aged 12 to 18) smoke.
• Smoking among female teens is rising. According to two studies on teens conducted in 1996 and 1999, the numbers of female teens smoking rose from 4.8% to 8%. Overall, the 1999 study found nearly one in five teens smokes.
• Some studies have shown that lung cancer is rising at a rate of 17% a year.
• Smoking is estimated to have caused more than half a million coronary events.
• Although there are restrictions on advertising, tobacco companies have found ways to bypass these laws through using brand names and remain the top advertisers.
• Malaysia has been dubbed the "indirect advertising capital" of the world. Some of the tobacco industry's most blatant efforts to target young people can be seen here.
• Spending on tobacco advertising is extremely high. In 1997, the industry spent about $90 million, while in the year 2000, two tobacco firms alone reportedly spent more than US$40 million.
• At least two tobacco companies were among the top 10 advertisers in recent years.

That's enough to get a conviction right there. But we press on...

The % for Ms Orden being culpable in the deaths of anyone when it appears she's a middleman of some kind on the border handling ecstasy, pot and amphetamines...is so ludicrously low, the chances are that she's LESS likely to have caused the deaths of anyone in her life than a random 41 year old.

You realise something like 70% of the US adult population has smoked pot, right? It's effectively decriminalised in most developed nations. Legal in Holland. California had a Proposition to regulate it recently, narrowly missed out - the next one will be passed. Nixon was a tool. The US President has admitted to smoking pot and doing cocaine in his youth. Some Republicans would no doubt disagree, but he looks pretty sharp to me (seared brain, notwithstanding). You'd have to be an idiot to smoke pot (in my opinion), but I would not kill or imprison people who disagreed with my opinions. Not even stoners. It's my opinion you'd have to be a moronic idiot to smoke cigarettes, and I smoke plenty of them. It's stupid, but the realisation that people are being incarcerated for doing something less stupid than my pack-a-day habit? It's outrageous.

Ecstasy will be legalised in the UK within a few years:

Former Britain Home Office Minister & Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth To Argue For Legalization Of All Drugs

British Drug Tzar Professor David Nutt: "The only drugs more harmful than alcohol are heroin, cocaine, barbiturates & methadone. LSD & ecstasy less harmful than tobacco."

Legalise all drugs: Britain Chief Constable demands end to 'immoral laws'

When The Guardian is demanding an end to the insanity with Editorials titled Prohibition's failed. Time for a new drugs policy and The war on drugs is immoral idiocy whilst the former President of Brazil is attempting to save South America from becoming failed states like Mexico (Fernando Henrique Cardoso: "It is time to admit the obvious. The 'war on drugs' has failed."), the madness will be ended with the anticlimactic puff seen in the Netherlands and Portugal and Argentina when they decriminalised.

Please don't think I'm advocating drugs or defending Ms Orden. Ms Orden is no hero. Neither am I, for that matter. My smoking is idiotic, my drinking is occasionally embarrassing, I would say 70% of TV posters have appalling diets (no idea on TV posters' use of licit poisons, but I imagine the %'s are relatively high, perhaps over 50%?). My beef is with the unforgivable and unacceptable and appalling injustice in locking up innocents by their billions for being stupid, in *almost* identical fashion to all of us being stupid on the right side of the 'law' with our alcohol and cigarettes and fast food. Almost, but not quite. Our drugs are more dangerous than theirs - it's a matter of irrefutable medical fact now. And yet, I read vitriol in every TV thread where a 'vile' drug dealer is being put away for the rest of their lives or about to be murdered by their government for what should - and will, in such a short time from now (at least in the UK, if not in Malaysia - they're going the other way, to Sharia and insanity but what can you do) - be effectively a minor customs offence.

She's no hero, but she didn't rip off her customers by selling them sugar pills. That's what the psychiatric industry were caught doing, and continue to do, and no one seems to care lol: TIME.com: SSRI Antidepressants are effectively placebos. Big Pharma (getting slaughtered in the media this week by the glorious WikiLeaks cables) has been selling dangerous drugs that don't work by the billion, it's been PROVEN, and they shrug and continue to do it. Okay, it is not for me to say you have to be furious at the pharmaceutical industry's gory shame, though I'm stunned that anyone wouldn't be (Assange has genuine worries now, these guys take out Attorney-Generals they don't like, judges go missing in their cases - these are really bad people):

WikiLeaks via Democracy Now: Pfizer STILL committing crimes to cover up 1996 horrors in Nigeria

WikiLeaks via Democracy Now: FDA unable to regulate Big Pharma; unable to even pretend they care

WikiLeaks via Democracy Now: US pharmateuctical industry overtakes military as leading defrauder

She's no hero, but she's no villain either.

Ignoring the heroin, which hasn't yet been linked to her as I understand it, the only - POSSIBLE, medically-speaking - victims who may have died due to the impurities, toxicities, dosage issues and whatnot...there is only one culpable killer for all of them. YOU KNOW WHO THE KILLER IS. They're about to KILL again.

Prohibition kills. The blood of every innocent is on the hands of the world's governments (who all manufacture illicit drugs). creates the illicit substances. Only the very deluded (or the very corrupted) are ever confused about whether Supply creates Demand...or whether Demand Creates Supply.

No demand - no sale. I do consider them merchants of death. As is someone who produces tobacco products. Arms manufacturers.

You ordered them the right way around (without demand, there would be no supply), but you then continue on in a way that suggests you believe it's the Sale that created the Demand.

Do you really believe this?

I certainly believe corporal and capital punishment to be barbaric and wrong.

Ironically, I totally fine with both. When they applied correctly and fairly. When they are applied as an appropriate / proportional response to those who are sheer Evil (who have no hope for rehabilitation, let alone redemption). Actually, there are some Pfizer execs on my mind who totally deserve one, or both.

I'll stop short of suggesting governments who pass legislation Prohibiting Human DNA and which order addicts to recode their own DNA or they be incarcerated or killed extra-judicially...I'll stop short of stating the Obvious Fact. I'll instead say that there is only one culpable party when there is an illicit drug death. I'm not talking about opinion, by the way...this also is Obvious Fact.

I wonder if I might request of you to have a guess as to who is responsible when an illicit drug results in death. I can give a clue, actually. If you say "the addict", do not pass Go, do not collect $200, go directly to gaol.

Take the addict with you. He's defied us with his failure to recode his DNA. He deserves to be locked up. As I would, if the government Prohibits Nicotine tomorrow. If I can't quit when my life and health are at risk, then taking away my liberty might just be the shove that gets me over the line...

Tight world we live in.

Edited December 19, 2010 by TheyCallmeScooter

[andrew55]

Dear TheyCallmeScooter,

Enjoyed your detailed thoughts. In a budget terminal and my 10 mins on internet keeps running out before I get time to properly reply. Get back to you. A

Edited December 19, 2010 by andrew55

[neverdie]

The state should definitely not be killing people.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. This is your opinion, others will disagree with you. Such is life. I can think of instances where in my opinion the state would be justified in killing someone. I don't think this is one of those.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

The state should definitely not be killing people.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. This is your opinion, others will disagree with you. Such is life. I can think of instances where in my opinion the state would be justified in killing someone. I don't think this is one of those.

Well, I really only said the state shouldn't be killing people merely because the entire historical record of our 'development' thus far really leads me to believe that the state can barely be trusted with the power to issue petty fines. They should be really limiting their exposure to things which are potentially "whoops!"...as opposed to haughtily applying their Final Solutions.

I am not against the death penalty, on principle. Quite the opposite. There are lots of people who must be introduced to La Guillotine, at least once...to see if they hit it off. It's pretty hard to see how a habitual sex offender is worth keeping around. In 50 years, it's not like we'll look back and think "our opinions on the sexual exploitation of children really did a 180, didn't they? It's all so blasé now, not sure why we ever thought otherwise? silly us."

Then again, former Presidents and Ministers and statesmen aren't saying "the war against sexual exploitation of children must end". The Guardian isn't calling laws prohibiting Child Pornography an "immoral idiocy". The fact that such statesmen and entities are taking that strong position on the immoral idiocy of killing a 41 year old mother for her ill-advised mistake which was likely the result of mere ignorance / greed (omg! hang the evil witch already)....probably should be grounds to postpone the killing of 41 year old mothers. I would think so, personally. In my humble opinion.

I'm all for executions. Religious governments probably should not ever conduct them, as a general rule. Because I'm not thrilled by incompetence. And Church + State = Ruckus of Incompetence. Always has. Always will. Any government who believes a mule or a middleman temporarily participating in a long chain which Supplies a consumable product to a hungry Demand for it, and who wasn't exploiting children or engaging in violence...could possibly deserve or warrant death (wut? facepalm). I mean, throw in the Smoking Hypocrisy / Contradiction, and it really becomes a question of whether they're competent or ethical enough to be allowed to do much at all really. I doubt they could even be expected to vacate their offices without some assistance.

If you disagree, but unable / unwilling to explain why the 'evil' of nicotine has not already resulted in them solemnly executing themselves, well...let's agree to disagree. By all means, kill on in the meantime. Nothing less is expected when agreeing to disagree. Inshallah.

Edited December 19, 2010 by TheyCallmeScooter

[blyish]

I don't have a lot of compassion for people who are this stupid. If you're stupid enough to get involved with drugs, why not do it in a country that doesn't have the death penalty for it? I think killing people for drug-related issues is wrong (actually, I disagree with the death penalty in general), but in the end it's the fault of the people who decided to risk it anyway. If you take a chance knowing the consequences and then you get caught, it's your fault. It's not like they came with the death penalty thing out of the blue.

Edited December 20, 2010 by blyish

[SweeneyAgonistes]

The death penalty is the mark of barbarism.

[ableguy]

People should not kill people.

Agreed. Even though drug dealers certainly kill people.

However, what would I do if someone raped my daughter? Killed my mother? Etc.?

Guess where you stand depends on where you sit.

The state should definitely not be killing people.

But, can you expand on your claim? "drug dealers certainly kill people". Yes, of course. Tax accountants certainly kill people. Flight attendants certainly kill people. Can you be more specific?

Do all drug dealers kill? What is their choice of weapons, I assume you mean with their drugs?

Who has Ms Orton killed, specifically? Or are you saying "chances are, she has"...can we get a % on those chances?

Long time since I read such a crock of sh.........