Eight People Killed In Grisly Bangkok Tollway Accident

[tombkk]

Thank you for your valuable contribution to this thread. In fact, what I read in the press is about the maximum penalty but what I heard on TV3 was about the minimum penalty - all applies only if found guilty. I am certainly looking forward to your correction on this, as you seem to have better insight into Thai law than me. Sure enough, I am only saying what I understand from the press.

Drunk Thai guy killed my friends 15 year old daughter..

He didnt get 4 years. So suspect your wrong on mimimum.

I'm sorry to hear that about your friend's daughter.

Either I'm wrong about the minimum, or there where other circumstances why the sentence was reduced. I have really no idea, this is lawyer's stuff.

[tropo]

Of course that's nonsense. Germany's autobahn is famous for having no speed limit for large stretches, and yet it is one of the safest road systems in the world.

How come? - Because of driver education and responsible driving. Education is the issue (and this was mentioned earlier in this thread), and a speed of 120 km/h is not very high on the Tollway: It's a good road! You could easily drive 150 km/h if the law allowed it and if you could be confident that the other drivers behaved responsibly.

Well, neither of these two "if's" apply: The speed limit exists in Thailand because drivers are not well-educated and not well-trained.

Thailand has a high number of accidents per 1,000 drivers, I forgot the number but can find out if necessary. Most accidents in Thailand are caused by 'human error', which is preventable if drivers are trained properly and follow what they've learned.

So what you are saying is that driving in steel boxes at 120+km/h isn't safe?

I think he was saying that only uneducated countries have speed limits.

Au contraire. I am saying that higher speeds require better driver education.

Just recently I came back from Hanoi. I don't know about driver education over there, but they certainly consider 30 km/h fast, so they don't exceed that speed limit (didn't see any signs though) even though the road was free. Also people in Cambodia tend to drive slower than in Thailand. It would be worth an academic study whether road speed increases with development, but I do wager that increased road speed requires increased driver education in order to keep the number of fatal accidents low.

I hope my message above is clearer now.

In your first post you stated: "The speed limit exists in Thailand because drivers are not well-educated and not-well trained".

This was the comment I found amusing.

Speed limits exist in most countries, educated, well trained or not.

Education and training don't count for much even back at home in Australia, therefore speed cameras, red light cameras, anti-hooning laws, random breath testing etc etc had to be introduced.

You want to make the roads safe you need to have strict and active, non corrupt enforcement of all traffic laws. You need to have heavy pentalties for non-compliance too. In The Netherlands they confiscate cars for repeated speeding offenses or very serious ones. In Australia they confiscate cars for hooning. I'm sure there would be similar examples from other countries.

Here's a report of a 20 year old having his 1.8 million Euro Bugatti Veyron confiscated.

car confiscated for speeding

[dixonbm]

Firstly I would like to say how sad I am to learn about this horrible accident. My sympathies to all involved.

I do have a comment which I haven't seen in any previous posts. I apologize in advance if this was previously addressed.

Were the victims wearing seatbelts?

A previous poster mentioned an exploding propane tank.

Given the lax enforcement of seatbelt laws and disregard of safety during most propane tank installations in vehicles in Thailand there must be some amount of blame placed on the company that owned and operated the van. In the USA, and I assume other western countries, the company operating/owning the vehicle could be held partially responsible for the deaths.

If similar logic is applied in this case then I would assume this may aid the poor girl's defence or at least lighten her sentence.

Please share your thoughts/comments.

Thank you.

Edited January 2, 2011 by dixonbm

[Wozzit]

If similar logic is applied in this case then I would assume this may aid the poor girl's defence or at least lighten her sentence.

LIke many here, I was appalled to read about this accident and probably over-reacted when I first read about it, influenced no doubt by the loss of life and the terrible way these poor people died. I believe the law here states that drivers and front seat passengers must wear seat belts. But there is no requirement for others in a vehicle to do so. How many taxis have you been in with belts in the back, but no buckles? That seems to be the norm here.

On the matter of seat belts, however, we should note - if it has not already been brought up - that the underage girl faces another charge. She was not wearing a seat belt! Since she is a minor and cannot face the full force of the law, I hope her parents, who clearly knew that she drove illegally (and, according to her mother, was a fast driver), have to serve jail time.

[indothai]

If similar logic is applied in this case then I would assume this may aid the poor girl's defence or at least lighten her sentence.

LIke many here, I was appalled to read about this accident and probably over-reacted when I first read about it, influenced no doubt by the loss of life and the terrible way these poor people died. I believe the law here states that drivers and front seat passengers must wear seat belts. But there is no requirement for others in a vehicle to do so. How many taxis have you been in with belts in the back, but no buckles? That seems to be the norm here.

On the matter of seat belts, however, we should note - if it has not already been brought up - that the underage girl faces another charge. She was not wearing a seat belt! Since she is a minor and cannot face the full force of the law, I hope her parents, who clearly knew that she drove illegally (and, according to her mother, was a fast driver), have to serve jail time.

If you are trying to imply that her parents should serve jail time, nope... won't stick.

- The car is not owned by the family (from what I can understand from various sources, and implied when her mother made a public statement), therefore not "directly" liable, BUT.. I'm not familiar with Thai Law, I'm not sure if the parents do have some form of liability as a result of their child causing deaths.

- I'm GUESSING that the owner of the car is still unknown, as.... "going by pure logic and personal opinion", the owner of the car gave permission for the kid to drive.

[steffi]

So did the video camera suggest this happened

"It is believed the girl's sedan brushed the van, which skidded and overturned, resulting in nine deaths and injuries."

[bangkockney]

If similar logic is applied in this case then I would assume this may aid the poor girl's defence or at least lighten her sentence.

LIke many here, I was appalled to read about this accident and probably over-reacted when I first read about it, influenced no doubt by the loss of life and the terrible way these poor people died. I believe the law here states that drivers and front seat passengers must wear seat belts. But there is no requirement for others in a vehicle to do so. How many taxis have you been in with belts in the back, but no buckles? That seems to be the norm here.

Like in New York and London, I believe taxis in Thailand are exempt from seat belt regulations.

[random]

I hope someone can answer a question for this ex UK policeman (cue the forum retards doubting this but as yet nobody has agreed to my invitation to meet so proof can be given, so save that one boys) but what on earth is Hooning? I am guessing it is an australian term for what we would call something else?

[whybother]

Like in New York and London, I believe taxis in Thailand are exempt from seat belt regulations.

In Thailand, you have to wear seat belts in taxis if you sit in the front seat. You don't have to wear seat belts in the back of any car.

[rixalex]

I hope someone can answer a question for this ex UK policeman (cue the forum retards doubting this but as yet nobody has agreed to my invitation to meet so proof can be given, so save that one boys) but what on earth is Hooning? I am guessing it is an australian term for what we would call something else?

Hooning around is i think used in Oz to describe young lads up to no good. Racing their motorbikes on public streets for example.

[whybother]

I hope someone can answer a question for this ex UK policeman (cue the forum retards doubting this but as yet nobody has agreed to my invitation to meet so proof can be given, so save that one boys) but what on earth is Hooning? I am guessing it is an australian term for what we would call something else?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hooning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoon

[random]

Thank you, at first I though it sounded like something for tailgating,

[khaowong1]

I just now had a Thai friend send me on the scene photo's of this accident. really, really terrible.

[harrry]

I hope someone can answer a question for this ex UK policeman (cue the forum retards doubting this but as yet nobody has agreed to my invitation to meet so proof can be given, so save that one boys) but what on earth is Hooning? I am guessing it is an australian term for what we would call something else?

Hooning is driving a way that is not normal.

Spinning wheels

Accelerating faster than normal at lights

having the tyres squeel.

In Australia (most states anyway) there are fines and the car can be immediately consfiscated and impunded initial ly I think for 24 hrs

2nd offence a month

third permanent. Ownership is not relevent...nor is danger...it does not have to be reckless

Edited January 6, 2011 by harrry

[tombkk]

I think he was saying that only uneducated countries have speed limits.

Au contraire. I am saying that higher speeds require better driver education.

Just recently I came back from Hanoi. I don't know about driver education over there, but they certainly consider 30 km/h fast, so they don't exceed that speed limit (didn't see any signs though) even though the road was free. Also people in Cambodia tend to drive slower than in Thailand. It would be worth an academic study whether road speed increases with development, but I do wager that increased road speed requires increased driver education in order to keep the number of fatal accidents low.

I hope my message above is clearer now.

In your first post you stated: "The speed limit exists in Thailand because drivers are not well-educated and not-well trained".

This was the comment I found amusing.

Speed limits exist in most countries, educated, well trained or not.

Education and training don't count for much even back at home in Australia, therefore speed cameras, red light cameras, anti-hooning laws, random breath testing etc etc had to be introduced.

You want to make the roads safe you need to have strict and active, non corrupt enforcement of all traffic laws. You need to have heavy pentalties for non-compliance too. In The Netherlands they confiscate cars for repeated speeding offenses or very serious ones. In Australia they confiscate cars for hooning. I'm sure there would be similar examples from other countries.

Here's a report of a 20 year old having his 1.8 million Euro Bugatti Veyron confiscated.

car confiscated for speeding

In my first post you refer to I obviously missed out the word "low", as in: "The low speed limit exists in Thailand...". As I explain later on in that post, many roads are safe to drive drive at 120 km/h or more, but without proper driver education, this is not generally applied.

Yes, the Don Muaeng Tollway, on which this accident happened, is actually a good road. If only the drivers were displined, staid in the left lane if they drive slower than the rest of the traffic, checked their rear-view mirros before changing lanes, and slowed down before overtaking a vehicle that might or might not suddenly changes lanes, I would advocate a higher speed limit than the current 80 km/h (or is it 90 km/h).

[tropo]

Were the victims wearing seatbelts?

The van was a crumpled mess. I doubt seatbelts would have made a difference.

[whybother]

Were the victims wearing seatbelts?

The van was a crumpled mess. I doubt seatbelts would have made a difference.

The ones thrown off the expressway may have had a chance if they were wearing seatbelts.

[indothai]

Were the victims wearing seatbelts?

The van was a crumpled mess. I doubt seatbelts would have made a difference.

The ones thrown off the expressway may have had a chance if they were wearing seatbelts.

Not very many countries make it mandatory/compulsory for rear passenger to wear seat belts, even less make it madatory for bus passenger to weat them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_legislation#Developing_countries).

When was the last time your rode a public bus in Thailand?... have you seen those pickup trucks outfitted with bench seats in the rear?... how to fit seat belts in those things?

If a pedestrian were to get run over, was it because the person didn't look both ways, or was it because the vehicle didn't bother to stop in time? (it's a trick question).

[ginjag]

I think he was saying that only uneducated countries have speed limits.

Au contraire. I am saying that higher speeds require better driver education.

Just recently I came back from Hanoi. I don't know about driver education over there, but they certainly consider 30 km/h fast, so they don't exceed that speed limit (didn't see any signs though) even though the road was free. Also people in Cambodia tend to drive slower than in Thailand. It would be worth an academic study whether road speed increases with development, but I do wager that increased road speed requires increased driver education in order to keep the number of fatal accidents low.

I hope my message above is clearer now.

In your first post you stated: "The speed limit exists in Thailand because drivers are not well-educated and not-well trained".

This was the comment I found amusing.

Speed limits exist in most countries, educated, well trained or not.

Education and training don't count for much even back at home in Australia, therefore speed cameras, red light cameras, anti-hooning laws, random breath testing etc etc had to be introduced.

You want to make the roads safe you need to have strict and active, non corrupt enforcement of all traffic laws. You need to have heavy pentalties for non-compliance too. In The Netherlands they confiscate cars for repeated speeding offenses or very serious ones. In Australia they confiscate cars for hooning. I'm sure there would be similar examples from other countries.

Here's a report of a 20 year old having his 1.8 million Euro Bugatti Veyron confiscated.

car confiscated for speeding

In my first post you refer to I obviously missed out the word "low", as in: "The low speed limit exists in Thailand...". As I explain later on in that post, many roads are safe to drive drive at 120 km/h or more, but without proper driver education, this is not generally applied.

Yes, the Don Muaeng Tollway, on which this accident happened, is actually a good road. If only the drivers were displined, staid in the left lane if they drive slower than the rest of the traffic, checked their rear-view mirros before changing lanes, and slowed down before overtaking a vehicle that might or might not suddenly changes lanes, I would advocate a higher speed limit than the current 80 km/h (or is it 90 km/h).

Motorways 120...........major roads A1-2-3-4. 90............ tollways not sure 120. but certain sections of most have restrictions (city limits) this was given to me by our local police. But if they tell you your doing more, you are and you pay, unless your lucky

[tombkk]

In my first post you refer to I obviously missed out the word "low", as in: "The low speed limit exists in Thailand...". As I explain later on in that post, many roads are safe to drive drive at 120 km/h or more, but without proper driver education, this is not generally applied.

Yes, the Don Muaeng Tollway, on which this accident happened, is actually a good road. If only the drivers were displined, staid in the left lane if they drive slower than the rest of the traffic, checked their rear-view mirros before changing lanes, and slowed down before overtaking a vehicle that might or might not suddenly changes lanes, I would advocate a higher speed limit than the current 80 km/h (or is it 90 km/h).

Motorways 120...........major roads A1-2-3-4. 90............ tollways not sure 120. but certain sections of most have restrictions (city limits) this was given to me by our local police. But if they tell you your doing more, you are and you pay, unless your lucky

The law is that the speed limit is 80 (or 90, I am not sure at this time), but provides for "special roads". On those "special roads", the speed limit can be set higher, for example at 120 km/h.

I think the law should be changed and say that the general speed limit is 150 but it can be reduced if deemed necessary. This way, 80 km/h can be maintained on the first-stage Express Way, and especially, the speed limit in the city can be reduced to, say, 60 km/h from the current 80.

But it won't need another Act of Parliament do increase the speed limit on the national highways (A1,2,3,4) to 120.