Getting Married - Parents Expecting A Car?

[Simbo]

YOU'RE A DIRTY OLD MAN

Grrr, mumble mumble, lucky git, jammy sod...

Best of Luck 

And welcome to Bedlam where all the DOM hang out

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[a2396]

I read most, if not all of the repliese in this thread.  I hope my observations are not offensive.

Most of the replies are "well intended" but are written, from from an understanding of Thai culture and tradition, especially in rural areas.  It is easy to offer advise from a Western perspective, but that perspective does not really help the posters situation.

Generally, Thai children are expected, in their careers or via marriage to help their parents, especially if they are not well off, living in rural areas.  Well educated "city girls" can be more challenging, because the parents don't need or want money, they want the love of their daughter (time, attention, etc.).

One other factor is that if your Thai love is "really good," she will always love her parents (in a different way) more than her husband, as this is basic Thai culture 101.  If you cannot accept this, then do not marry a Thai, please, please, please.  You must love her family, not just the cozy nights in bed with their beloved child.  This is Thai culture, not the West.

I agree that a 900,000 Baht car might be a bit much starting out, but if the parents of this wonderful girl that you love spent their life and money raising this girl, they expect their daughter to contribute back to them.    This is Thailand and that is how it works, especially in rural areas.    You must gain honest answers and knowledge to these types of questions:

(1)  How much did the family spend on her education?

(2)  Did they send her abroad?  Pay overseas expenses?

(3)  How many years did they support her?  What kind of degree did she receive and from where?

(4)  Was she planning to work?  (If so, she was certainly planning to give money in the future to support her parents and younger brothers and sisters.)  Is she planning to work after you get married?

This situation is not uncommon and not complex.  The person obligated to the parents is your future wife.  If your marriage changes that obligation, then you become obligated - as you have, in effect, "taken their daughter, and her earnings potential, from them".

(of course, there are many situations, and I cannot write to all without more details).

Bottom line:  If your future wife graduated from a top Thai University with a 4+ year degree paid by the family, 900,000 Baht may not be unreasonable.

You can avoid your immediate 900,000 problem by agreeing to send money to the family on a monthly basis after you are married, with a nice wedding gift, if the parents indeed, as it sounds, paid and supported her education.

Is she the oldest?  How many brothers and sisters? 

In other words, don't be discouraged by many of the posts Zint.  Look at this simply as "business" and look at the situation from the perspective of the parents and their "investment" in their daughter and what they expected out of that "investment".    This  is Thai culture, not the "west" hence all this very well intended advise from our western  friends has limitations, as the perspective of the west  is not the same as the rural perspective of Thailand.

To the younger female poster(s) from the UK in this thread, your advise is nice, warm and well intended, very good advise to others in the UK, but not congruent with Thai culture.  Love in Thailand is more than "love and passion"  and marriage is not just about husband and wife, it is about families.    Unlike the UK, Thai girls love their mother and father more than their husbands - the love is different, but a husband's love never replaces the love of the parents and their obligation to the parents.

There is a lot to be learned from all cultures, and Thai culture has many very interesting ideas that Thai's are very proud of.  The relationshp and closeness of the children to the parents is very special.    Zint, you can discuss all of the face-to-face with the parents if you speak the same language, and it will be very much appreciated.  Start out like this:

(1)  I know you love your daughter very much and she loves you.

(2)  I greatly admire that love and respect it and what it means.

(3)  How much did you spend on her education?

(4)  Thank you for such love and caring for her.

(5)  What did you expect when she graduated?

(6)  Does her marriage to a foreigner change your expectations?

etc etc.

You can also discuss with with your beautiful future wife first.  She will also appreciate it and can (and certainly will) discuss your respect and thoughts to her parents.

I'll stop here.  I simply care about you and don't want you to make a mistake which you may regret later.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you think the average Thai man is stupid enough to hand over 900,000 bht in a similar situation, unless he were extremely wealthy?? This type of extravigant demand seems to be reserved for unwitting and naive "falangs" who just got off the boat. If this is Thai culture, some modifications need to be made to reduce this outrageous lust for money.

[bkkmadness]

Sorry, not read all the posts here, but just wanted to say, 900 k for a present to the family is absolutely ridiculous. If you are going to get married to this girl, good luck to you, think how much more useful that money would be to you, your wife and future kids.

Hmm, excuse wise, I would not make one, they are taking the p.iss, best just to tell them you can't afford to pay and they can like it or lump it, but try to do it a bit more politely dude.

[Mr. Farang]

Do you think the average Thai man is stupid enough to hand over 900,000 bht in a similar situation, unless he were extremely wealthy?? This type of  extravigant demand seems to be reserved for unwitting and naive "falangs" who just got off the boat. If this is Thai culture, some modifications need to be made to reduce this outrageous lust for money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have known wealthy Thai men to pay much, much more than 900,000 baht to buy a house for the family of a second wife (girlfriend).

Most Thai men I know, who have affairs with young, sexy, rural girls, spend a lot of money on them. Yes, I mostly know Thai people who are not your "average Thai man"... and Farangs are also not "average Thai men" either, laughing out loud -

Edited August 25, 2005 by Mr. Farang

[steveromagnino]

I too have attended weddings with sin sots I have known to be in the realms of 5m baht and up...however key point is that much of this is often returned (or all of it) to the couple after the marriage...for house purchase, that sort of thing. In general a wealthy family either doesn't need the money; or uses the money to make the husband grow up/take responsibility for things/discourage marriage in the first place....

Minor wives...well yes we all know that ample money might be spent on that sort of thing, but usually not with regards to a sin sot is it!?!

900k is a considerable amount for someone from upcountry; and in general significantly higher than bar the richer city folks (often Thai Chinese) but such an amount is not unheard of.

However, based on what I am hearing here, this does not seem to be the case. And there are not many pick ups costing 900k - in fact - I cannot recall going to a wedding with a pickup presented at all! (ok, some cars along with a bunch of other stuff...but.....)

The problem is the same as Patpong or taxi scams, jewel scams or the like - so many foreigners are willing to pay large amounts, that it becomes common knowledge among some people wanting to take advantage; foreigners wouldn't be asked if there wasn't already a decent stream of foreigners paying.... this may be a family trying to take advantage.

I would suggest that the face saving is one issue (which is often a big deal to upcountry folk) by giving them giving back (and thus "proving" you can look after her); it seems like with this family you are going to be expected to look after them; do not marry into the family if you are not willing to take on that obligation; Mr Farang is right in that point that often particularly the older daughters and sometimes the youngest are expected to look after the parents as they age.

Mr Farang - are you trying to boast that you know little about Thailand because you don't know many "average Thai men" or that you know a massive amount of Thailand and somehow have knowledge the rest of us have missed out on because you don't know many "average Thai men"?! ngong wa

[chuchok]

I think this is excellant advice.  I would say the correct dowry for your girl would be around the 200-300k mark.  900k is too much. 

You do have a face saving issue though, and if you really love each other you can settle this.  You should offer 999,999 baht at the wedding, Cash.

Before had though you should make it clear that you would like 700-800k returned, the rest can go as a contribution to the car.

The excuse above about the family saving the money instead of buying the car, is a good one.  The money has been shown, you have proved yourself, if the family don't agree to this, they are greedy.  Showing a cool 1m will gain everyone a lot of face, and that is a great excuse for them, there are many others.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Eh? 200-300k...you have got to be joking?

[meelousee]

No joke

Your are getting ready to be rippe off. Those who say not are par for the problem?

[britmaveric]

Mr Farang is full of sh*te! I broached the subject with my gf - she basically laffed and said poor zint was being taken. Whoever heard of giving a truck to the parents for sinsod? (down right robbery) Its for show not a bloody present for the parents.

Remember the lady and the parents have more to lose than you - tell them the wedding is off and I'm quite positive they will come back literally with their tails between their legs.

[loong]

...........  About a month ago my father-in-law needed emergency medical care, the closest being 25k away.  No truck, he die.  Have truck, he alive and well.

Negoiate the deal and buy something which will make them all happy...incl you!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that if they didn't have a pick-up, they would have found somebody to take them, and very quickly.

I can't pretend to know all about this Sin Sod thing.

Is it only paid at a full wedding?

What about a "Buddha" wedding

If Sin Sod is not due with a "Buddha " Wedding, then maybe this is the way to go.

One thing i have noticed is that from an initial sum of 900K, many posters are saying that around 300K is fair. Maybe a high start to negotiations is intended to finish with a higher settlement?

A dowry has to be affordable, and as it obviously isn't if Zint can't afford it, He shouldn't pay.

If the father perseveres, I would ask him "If you love your daughter, why do you want her and her new husband to begin married life with difficulties and debt?"

I am sorry Zint, but maybe you should cancel the wedding and cite the Sin Sod demands as the reason. She would either speak to her father to enable the wedding to continue or leave things as they are, living together. If she cannot accept this, then you have to seriously consider the future of your relationship.

You could also suggest that when she graduates university and is earning an income, she can pay a % to her parents.

Why is it that so many farang in Thailand believe that they have to immerse themselves in and accept Thai culture and customs?

This leads me to my next suggestion. Take her to the UK and marry her there. Explain to her father that as you are marrying in the Uk, the Uk culture demands that the Father of the bride pays for the wedding. Apparently the average Uk wedding costs about £18,000 or 1,300,000 Baht. I can't imagine that he would have a problem with this as he expects you to embrace Thai culture.

Otherwise offer to keep the wedding in Thailand, the father can just pay the difference of 400,000 to you.

In other cultures the father would be expected to pay a dowry.

This is a cross-cultural wedding. I would pay nothing, only the wedding costs.

[Boo]

To the younger female poster(s) from the UK in this thread, your advise is nice, warm and well intended, very good advise to others in the UK, but not congruent with Thai culture.  Love in Thailand is more than "love and passion"  and marriage is not just about husband and wife, it is about families.    Unlike the UK, Thai girls love their mother and father more than their husbands - the love is different, but a husband's love never replaces the love of the parents and their obligation to the parents.

So too is the advice from old male posters from the west nice & warm & well intended but that advice may not always be useful as they can't know the whole situation & can only give their view on what they would do, just as everyone on this thread has done without the need to patronise anyone else or pick out a particular gender or nationality

[mrbojangles]

To the younger female poster(s) from the UK in this thread, your advise is nice, warm and well intended, very good advise to others in the UK, but not congruent with Thai culture.  Love in Thailand is more than "love and passion"  and marriage is not just about husband and wife, it is about families.    Unlike the UK, Thai girls love their mother and father more than their husbands - the love is different, but a husband's love never replaces the love of the parents and their obligation to the parents.

So too is the advice from old male posters from the west nice & warm & well intended but that advice may not always be useful as they can't know the whole situation & can only give their view on what they would do, just as everyone on this thread has done without the need to patronise anyone else or pick out a particular gender or nationality

I concur with that Boo

Mr Farang, you seem to suggest, that in the Uk, when people get married they don't care about their parents as much as children do in Thailand. This is the biggest load of Hogwash that i have heard, we just show it differently. If you refer to "caring" in monetary terms, then "yes" children in the UK (generally) don't give money to their parents, as they don't need to. We have pensions and benefit systems etc. Thais don't have this, so it is upto the children to provide for them in their latter years. I personally don't look at caring in monetary terms and i don't look at it in Hierarchical terms either. I am married (to a Thai) and love my wife equally as i do my mother and would do anything and everything for them both, if they needed it. Love isn't measured in the amount of "cash" you give, it is measured in the amount of "heart" you give.

[ozzydom]

Having read all this thread and still not completely clear on Sin Sod and its implications ,I asked my T/W about it,she comes from the N/E also.

Her first husband was Thai from a fairly well off family,the Sin Sod was 8k 22 years ago,her nephew recently wed a girl from Sisaket,Sin Sod 60k which she says is about the norm these days (inflation ?)

The interesting thing she tells me is that Sin Sod is always arranged between the mothers of the intending couple and does not involve the couple at all,she even rang her sister to confirm and yes her sister paid the 60k to the mother of the bride and the couple still do not know the details.

[loong]

Following from some previous posters thoughts........

I have come to the conclusion that Thai girls do not marry for love. They marry for security.

However, I do believe that their capacity for love is such that they do actually end up in love with their partner. I hope that makes sense, sometimes I'm not too good with words.

As for their parents, I think that the love a girl will have for her partner will exceed the love she has for her parents. She will always feel a sense of responsibility towards her parents though.

The OP has been in a relationship long enough now, so that she would love her partner more than her parents and therefore he should be more important to her.

As someone else has posted, of course , I think like a farang and have farang values. To my mind your children are most important, followed by your life partner and parents come third. After all your children did not ask to be born and likewise, your birth was the decision of your parents, not you.

Sin Sod seems to me not too far removed from selling your child. Very strange to my farang mind.

[ozzydom]

As a follow up, I just asked my T/W how come I wasnt asked for Sin Sod, didnt her Mother think she was worth anything. Smack *+# Bang

I was only joking darling,

She said that because I had in the early days of our relationship told her I would care for her two children as if they were mine, that was more than enough and made her Mum very happy knowing her daughter and Grand-children were going to be cared for.

[Boo]

I agree with the chain idea loong, I have no problem with my husband providing for his mum as long as it doesn't mean that we cannot pay our own bills. In that situation his first responsibilty is to us & he knows this & so does his family. They don't exect anything from me or him but are pleased when he can send something & use it carefully.

[Mr. Farang]

Mr Farang - are you trying to boast that you know little about Thailand because you don't know many "average Thai men" or that you know  a massive amount of Thailand and somehow have knowledge the rest of us have missed out on because you don't know many "average Thai men"?!  ngong wa  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not trying to do anything but help a young man who posted a question of real concern to him. As requested, I am giving my perspective based on my experience.

Others are certainly free to give perspectives based on their knowledge and experience as well.

Jumping to conclusions without all the facts is not something I normally do - - Others are entitled to do as they wish ;-) As for me, I'll advise as my experience and understanding of Thai culture and language guides me - which appears to be considerably more (I'm sorry to point out) than many of the posters, based on the quality of their posts and manner of speaking.

Since I have joined, to be frank, many of the Farang posters have shown that they have not learned the Thai ABCs - the basic of Thai language. Others appears to come here to learn Thai profanity or phrases to communicate with a girl they met in a bar who is not well educated. Many seem to have a very low opinion of Thai people and their culture and traditions based on their experience in this, and similar situations. Very few members seem to have the patience (to put forth the energy to learn) or language skills to understand Thai culture - they exploit the culture v. learn it.

Recently, I was in a Northern City and ran into a ******* citizen (this is not to offend ******* citizens, so please do not flame, thanks!) and he had been living in Thailand for more than 10 years. I knew him 10 years ago as well in Thailand. He owns a small retail business. He has not formally learned Thai and his Thai language skills are very bad (sounds worst than pigeon English) and he spoke to his female Thai employees like they were dogs. I was shocked, as I have never seen Thais ever speak to their employees in this manner.

His girlfriend - after speaking Thai to me for 10 minutes, looked at me very embarassed when her Farang GF began talking (very rudely) to the female employee with less respect than we give dogs and pigs. After closing, the female worked saw me on the street and looked at me to say - I am so sorry for my very harsh and rude boss.

My point is this - most Farangs who come to Thailand get exactily what they deserve.

As I said earlier in this post, I'm not trying to do anything but help a young man who posted a question of real concern to him in Thailand about marriage. It seems he has not discussed the basic economic of the situation with either his future lovely wife her family. I advised to ask more (basic economic) questions and to get more facts and information. This remains very sound advise.

Jai Yen Yen :-)

Edited August 25, 2005 by Mr. Farang

[loong]

His girlfriend - after speaking Thai to me for 10 minutes, looked at me very embarassed when her Farang GF when began talking to the female employee with less respect than we give dogs and pigs. After closing, the female worked say me on the street and looked at me to say - I am so sorry for my very harsh and rude boss

I'm sorry mr Farang, can you translate this to english please?

[Mr. Farang]

His girlfriend - after speaking Thai to me for 10 minutes, looked at me very embarassed when her Farang GF began talking to the female employee with less respect than we give dogs and pigs. After closing, the female workersaw me on the street and looked at me to say - I am so sorry for my very harsh and rude boss

I'm sorry mr Farang, can you translate this to english please?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here it is again with the typo corrected.

His girlfriend - after speaking Thai to me for 10 minutes, looked at me very embarassed when her Farang GF began talking to the female employee with less respect than we give dogs and pigs. After closing, the female worker saw me on the street and looked at me to say - I am so sorry for my very harsh and rude boss

Mr. Loong, Jai Yen Yen (Cool Hearted) is better.

Edited August 25, 2005 by Mr. Farang

[chuchok]

Recently, I was in a Northern City and ran into a ******* citizen (this is not to offend ******* citizens, so please do not flame, thanks!) and he had been living in Thailand for more  than 10 years.  I knew him 10 years ago as well in Thailand.  He owns a small retail business.  He has not formally learned Thai and his Thai language skills are very bad (sounds worst than pigeon English) and he spoke to his female Thai employees like they were dogs.  I was shocked, as I have never seen Thais ever speak to their employees in this manner. 

His girlfriend - after speaking Thai to me for 10 minutes, looked at me very embarassed when her Farang GF began talking (very rudely)  to the female employee with less respect than we give dogs and pigs.  After closing, the female worked saw me on the street and looked at me to say - I am so sorry for my very harsh and rude boss.

My point is this - most Farangs who come to Thailand get exactily what they deserve.

I have seen Thai people give staff much more of a hard time than I have ever seen in the west. I suppose it comes down to what coloured glasses you are wearing on the day.

Personally I would give more respect to a pig than a dog.lumping them both togeather is a little hash I feel.

[loong]

Jumping to conclusions without all the facts is not something I normally do - - Others are entitled to do as they wish ;-) As for me, I'll advise as my experience and understanding of Thai culture and language guides me - which appears to be considerably more (I'm sorry to point out) than many of the posters, based on the quality of their posts and manner of speaking

Your understanding of Thai Culture is based on your experiences.

Other poster's understanding of Thai Culture is based on their experiences.

You cannot claim to know more about Thai Culture than others.

Thai culture is the way of life of Thai people and you are in no position to claim a better knowledge than most of the farang here

[loong]

Mr Farangposted  Mr. Loong, based on reading your posts, you are really Jai Roan (Hot Hearted) aren't you - laughing out loud? Jai Yen Yen (Cool Hearted) is better.

Jai Roan means quick to anger or hot tempered

Jai Yen Yen means calm down or cool down

Sorry to correct you

Edit - I notice Mr Farang has removed some of his post (Highlighted)

Edited August 25, 2005 by loong

[Mr. Farang]

Jumping to conclusions without all the facts is not something I normally do - - Others are entitled to do as they wish ;-) As for me, I'll advise as my experience and understanding of Thai culture and language guides me - which appears to be considerably more (I'm sorry to point out) than many of the posters, based on the quality of their posts and manner of speaking

Your understanding of Thai Culture is based on your experiences.

Other poster's understanding of Thai Culture is based on their experiences.

You cannot claim to know more about Thai Culture than others.

Thai culture is the way of life of Thai people and you are in no position to claim a better knowledge than most of the farang here

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mr. Loong, I absolutely agree your point that my knowledge is based on my experience and anothers knowledge is based on their experience.

Good point.

[Ice Maiden]

Recently, I was in a Northern City and ran into a ******* citizen (this is not to offend ******* citizens, so please do not flame, thanks!) and he had been living in Thailand for more  than 10 years.  I knew him 10 years ago as well in Thailand.  He owns a small retail business.  He has not formally learned Thai and his Thai language skills are very bad (sounds worst than pigeon English) and he spoke to his female Thai employees like they were dogs.  I was shocked, as I have never seen Thais ever speak to their employees in this manner. 

His girlfriend - after speaking Thai to me for 10 minutes, looked at me very embarassed when her Farang GF began talking (very rudely)  to the female employee with less respect than we give dogs and pigs.  After closing, the female worked saw me on the street and looked at me to say - I am so sorry for my very harsh and rude boss.

My point is this - most Farangs who come to Thailand get exactily what they deserve.

I have seen Thai people give staff much more of a hard time than I have ever seen in the west. I suppose it comes down to what coloured glasses you are wearing on the day.

Personally I would give more respect to a pig than a dog.lumping them both togeather is a little hash I feel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't agree about the staff part. Everytime I'm shopping in malls that are usually busy without a doubt near enough every member has a mobile phone with them and most even answer the calls whilst on the job or text. Now in my job if I was caught with a mobile phone on the job it was instant dismissal for me let alone using it.

And the girls usually apply their makeup whilst stacking shelves using nearby mirrors they don't even bother disgusing it. Just stand in the open and put on their lipstick. In my job it was also instant dismissal for that.

Edited August 25, 2005 by Ice Maiden

[Mr. Farang]

Mr. Loong, based on reading your posts, you are really Jai Roan (Hot Hearted) aren't you - laughing out loud? Jai Yen Yen (Cool Hearted) is better.

Jai Roan means quick to anger or hot tempered

Jai Yen Yen means calm down or cool down

Sorry to correct you

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mr. Loong,

Of course I know the meaning and my post is exactly what I wanted to say.

You are heart hearted - cool hearted is better - try to be more patient with others. In another thread, you basically called me names, flaming me and judging me.

It's OK, perhaps this is how you are :-) I can see that you really do not like me. No problem. Good Luck to You.

Edited August 25, 2005 by Mr. Farang

[ozzydom]

Jumping to conclusions without all the facts is not something I normally do - - Others are entitled to do as they wish ;-) As for me, I'll advise as my experience and understanding of Thai culture and language guides me - which appears to be considerably more (I'm sorry to point out) than many of the posters, based on the quality of their posts and manner of speaking.

An authority on all things Thai ,no less

His girlfriend - after speaking Thai to me for 10 minutes, looked at me very embarassed when her Farang GF began talking (very rudely) to the female employee with less respect than we give dogs and pigs. After closing, the female worked saw me on the street and looked at me to say - I am so sorry for my very harsh and rude boss.

And a mind reader as well, Hmmm the grammar could do with a little work

[loong]

Mr. Loong, I absolutely agree your point that my knowledge is based on my experience and anothers knowledge is based on their experience.

Good point.

Thankyou.

Please just call me Loong as it is the title that I am known as in my home village

Obviously Mister Uncle seems a little strange

[chuchok]

Recently, I was in a Northern City and ran into a ******* citizen (this is not to offend ******* citizens, so please do not flame, thanks!) and he had been living in Thailand for more  than 10 years.  I knew him 10 years ago as well in Thailand.  He owns a small retail business.   He has not formally learned Thai and his Thai language skills are very bad (sounds worst than pigeon English) and he spoke to his female Thai employees like they were dogs.   I was shocked, as I have never seen Thais ever speak to their employees in this manner.  

His girlfriend - after speaking Thai to me for 10 minutes, looked at me very embarassed when her Farang GF began talking (very rudely)  to the female employee with less respect than we give dogs and pigs.   After closing, the female worked saw me on the street and looked at me to say - I am so sorry for my very harsh and rude boss.

My point is this - most Farangs who come to Thailand get exactily what they deserve.

I have seen Thai people give staff much more of a hard time than I have ever seen in the west. I suppose it comes down to what coloured glasses you are wearing on the day.

Personally I would give more respect to a pig than a dog.lumping them both togeather is a little hash I feel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't agree about the staff part. Everytime I'm shopping in malls that are usually busy without a doubt near enough every member has a mobile phone with them and most even answer the calls whilst on the job or text. Now in my job if I was caught with a mobile phone on the job it was instant dismissal for me let alone using it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well using a mobile here is like going to the loo.....it's part of thai life. I've seen more than one occasion thai staff in factories getting a complete bollocking from the boss.No face bullshite...just ripped into them. Your perspective is from shopping malls.that's a pretty small section of Thai society mate.

[loong]

Mr. Loong, based on reading your posts, you are really Jai Roan (Hot Hearted) aren't you - laughing out loud? Jai Yen Yen (Cool Hearted) is better.

Jai Roan means quick to anger or hot tempered

Jai Yen Yen means calm down or cool down

Sorry to correct you

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mr. Loong,

Of course I know the meaning and my post is exactly what I wanted to say.

You are heart hearted - cool hearted is better - try to be more patient with others. In another thread, you basically called me names, flaming me and judging me.

It's OK, perhaps this is how you are :-) I can see that you really do not like me. No problem. Good Luck to You.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sorry, Mr Farang, I did not call you names in another thread. I believe that I stated that you gave the Impression of being pompous.

As for disliking you?

No, I dislike and disagree with some of the things you write, but that's not personal.

I'm not impatient or easy angry, but not shy of an argument (context of debate) if I think someone is wrong.

Anyway, somebody post about the Sin Sod quickly before Tukyleith closes this thread as well

[mrbojangles]

I think the Op should think about wether he thinks that the parents think that the girlfriend thinks that they all think that the sin sod is OK

Loong, got back on topic mate just in time

[Ice Maiden]

Chuckok - No I still don't agree. It is also a part of the western lifestyle but during work hours we have the manners to not be seen with a mobile phone on the job, it is seen as unprofessinal. I have seen this happen outside of the shopping malls too. And it is inside these shopping malls in which most the tourists shop at therefore representing most of Thailand's culture, mate.

Edit - As for sin sod I still agree on my views which I shared before (sorry about the change of subject Scouse, I see you looking!)

Edited August 25, 2005 by Ice Maiden