Oh The Lies!

[deejah]

i grew up in a family who used lies to manipulate people and distort the truth out of fear and selfishness mostly i suppose

one of my family members i believe is a compulsive liar and in fact may be so deluded as to actually believe their own lies

so my tolerance for lies was extremely low and at a young age i promised myself to always tell the truth

took me many years to learn how not such a good idea that was

and was proud that i finally learned to lie

flash forward to Thailand

where lying is actually a part of the culture

(is that true of any other cultures as much as or more than here?)

for whatever reason good or bad

TO SAVE FACE

to save the others face

so that things go smoothly

to get your way

to make others feel better

to cheat

to make yourself feel better

to get what you want

to not have to do something

to get to do something

(yes i know this is not only in thailand)

and whatever other reasons

you are welcome to post here

that in itself might be enlightening

i often have pondered

dont people realize that once you catch them in a lie

it is impossible ever really to believe them 100% and to know when they are telling the truth or not???

is that not clear as day to others?

it behooves me that the liars dont see nor care about that

yes it is not always so cut and dry

there are little white lies

some people say it is better to lie than to risk the other person feeling hurt

in fact some people enjoy and have fun with the lying part of the culture here

i can see that and appreciate that and have made my feeble attempts

how about an INTELLIGENT conversation/thread on lies, liars, and lying

(or is that expecting too much from TV general?)

there is a whole science to telling how people lie

and how to lie yourself and not get caught

all very interesting

but more importantly

how about how you and others deal with it!

living here and in all/other aspects of your life

like how we are pretty sure when someone is lying so we lie back in turn and they must know it too

or other situations

specific examples would be better

apologies as i failed to that myself yet here

thanks all in advance for your THOUGHTFUL posts

i did some thaivisa searches on lies and lying but there are too many to cull through

also moderators this is no way a jab at thais or thai culture

i <deleted> love it here

its just an unresolved issue/dilemma that keeps coming up over and over

id like to have a MATURE discussion about

i am actually impressed how quick and deft people are at lying

right out of thin air like magic!!!! its an art!!!

maybe i am just jealous

and also naive to think life would be so much better and easier without the lies

i would rather not lie at all but i can see how awkward that is sometimes by saying nothing or telling the truth or dodging the questions

i suppose the best is to do it tongue and cheek so all laugh and know what is going on but dont dare touch it

that indeed is a fine art

when i do it most of what i get is 'you go hook'

(someone famous somewhere sometime must have said the truth is there is no truth)

soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo......

Edited December 29, 2010 by deejah

[TheyCallmeScooter]

I get bamboozled pretty routinely.

One day I might stop reacting with slack-jawed shock.

The sheer scale of some (surely story-boarded and scripted over multiple volumes) deceit efforts has floored me, on occasion. One has to admire their sheer ambition, if nothing else.

[Tonto21]

Trust me, as you have already pointed out Thais are not the only ones who get their share of criticism for this. We have this in the west, you’ll get just as many lies told to you there, but I feel the difference in the west is as westerners we don’t accept known lying as a firm basis to work from, I think a lying westerners also know when the game is up, they’ve been found out…….And shut up, not like some other nationalities, who while chewing on one foot, they are trying to jam the other one in as well.

[Mossfinn]

Girlfriend to dj

does my backside look big in this new dress?

dj

I am afraid so, yes

Outcome: dj is looking for new girlfriend

[somchaismith]

:rolleyes:Just humor it. The BS never usually gets too serious. Kinda like an adventure. Just don't take any large monetary risks.

They don't care if you walk, cause they expect that there'll be another possibly naive and desperate walking ATM coming along to fill your boots.

Usually does only happen when having dealings with the uscrupulous, desperado types, though .

[Loz]

there used to be a chap here posting under the name, maigo6. shortly after i figured out the meaning he left. his take on this would have been worth a read.

[StreetCowboy]

Why ask a question that needs a lie in response?

You would not have asked the question if you did not think that a lie was necessary -

"Where were you last night?"

"How much have you had to drink?"

"How much do you earn?"

"What are you doing on Saturday night?"

It's not a fact you're looking for, so you're asking the wrong question...

Or if she's asking, she is not asking for facts....

""I couldn't get a taxi.."

"I had two pints in the Old Dutch"

"I'm undervalued by my boss"

"Sadly I have a prior appointment with a long-standing family member - do you mean this Saturday, next Saturday, or just Saturdays in general..."

SC

Let's face it, if you wanted facts you'd date an encyclopaedia

[cardholder]

there used to be a chap here posting under the name, maigo6. shortly after i figured out the meaning he left. his take on this would have been worth a read.

I think you will find that his leaving was not a voluntary act.

I also find myself reading posts and thinking "that one is just made for Maigo6 response".

[StreetCowboy]

there used to be a chap here posting under the name, maigo6. shortly after i figured out the meaning he left. his take on this would have been worth a read.

I think you will find that his leaving was not a voluntary act.

I also find myself reading posts and thinking "that one is just made for Maigo6 response".

No, he went on holiday, and he'll be sending us a postcard. Why do you need to make everything so confrontational?

SC

[ballpoint]

there used to be a chap here posting under the name, maigo6. shortly after i figured out the meaning he left. his take on this would have been worth a read.

I think you will find that his leaving was not a voluntary act.

I also find myself reading posts and thinking "that one is just made for Maigo6 response".

No, he went on holiday, and he'll be sending us a postcard. Why do you need to make everything so confrontational?

SC

Alright, there's no need to make a 2 and dance about it.

[digibum]

Actually, for as much as lying seems to be a part of Thai culture they are remarkably bad at it. Part of that is that they don't expect to ever have their lies questioned so they put very little effort into making them believable. I mean, back home when you want to tell a lie as simple as why you were late this morning you go through all sorts of different scenarios in your head. You work out possible rebuttals and your responses. You make sure that your lie is plausible. Etc, etc, etc. Thais just seem to say the first thing that pops into their heads.

Examples:

Farang Lie:

Boss: Why were you late?

Employee: Oh, it was crazy. I was coming down Sukhumvit, you know near Soi 10, right near the park? Anyway, a cop stops me and asks me to empty my pockets. I tell him no way. So he threatens to take me down to the police station and . . . well, long story short, I have to go to the ATM to pull out some money to make the problem go away. See, I have the ATM receipt right here. I had to give him 1000 baht.

Thai Lie:

Boss: Why were you late?

Employee: Oh traffic, mak, mak.

Boss: You just told me yesterday that you take the BTS to work

Employee: Blank stare.

[GuestHouse]

Let's not lay all the blame on the Thais - Some of the most entertaining posts on TV are clearly not connected to reality, and there's at least one member who's life history as presented on these pages would span thousands of years if he were to have done all he claims.

That's not to say all TV members are liars and I certainly don't take the view that all Thais are liars - or indeed that lying doesn't matter in Thai society.

You can put this latter point to test any time you like - Get caught lying to your Thai Wife/Husband/Girlfriend/Boyfriend and you'll see how they take it very seriously.

I suspect the issue in Thai society is that people are unwilling to face off with a liar - too much confrontation. But the flip side is Thai social circles are extremely tightly knit - I've on a number of occasions overheard Thai colleagues discussing the lack of trust they have in what a person says/claims. I don't think lying gets addressed directly, but I'm sure it has consequences for the liar.

[outofoz]

When I was a child I was taught that lying was wrong and you should always tell the truth. As a child and teenager and young adult i thought other people thought the same and always told the truth. haha! how naive I was!

Everyone lies about something, some people lie about many things. Lying is not so bad, it often can smooth out conflict and make everyone feel better. Now, I just assume that everyone will tell some type of lie to me in conversation. Most lying is harmless, I just decide what is important to me and what is not important to me.

When things that are important to me (girlfriends, money, happiness) I look at the person who is telling me something and I look at what their actions are. How have they behaved in the past? What type of things did they do? Does it match up with what they are saying now? Is what they are saying , what they are doing?

On women in particular:

When it has come to girls I was a sucker in my younger years, believing anything that was said to me. Being a fairly soft touch still, now I listen to what is said to me but then see if the words match the actions. 'I am only Farang you talk with?" -- when i check their msn of FB friend list i see 70 male farangs as friends!! Clearly a big time liar. When they say 'I only talk with few farang: -- i check their FB or msn and only a few Farang, I know the person can be trusted more. I expect the Thai woman will be talking to more people than just me anyway.

if you ask a thai girl if she has been a bargirl, what do you expect she will say? of course she will say no.

if you ask a thai girl if she is interested in only your money, what do you expect she will say? No, of course

if you ask a thai girl if she finds you sexy/funny/smart, what do you expect she will say? Yes of course

These are answers all men want to hear, so lying here seems perfectly reasonable to me. If it is the truth you want use your common sense or look at their actions.

She has a tongue stud, tattoos and spends her weekends away visiting 'sick family'...?? But she says she has never been a bargirl? Use your common sense on that one!

She wants you to always buy stuff for her? Always needs money? Wants more and more? -- but she says she doesnt want you for your money?? haha

You are 40+, fat and bald? she is 25 and hot? she says she finds you sexy? -- more like Homer simpson I would say.

just accept people will lie. Doesnt matter so much what they say, it is what they actually do that counts

[GuestHouse]

Remember - The most dangerous lies you will ever hear are the lies you tell yourself.

At the bottom of every 'Farang Disaster" I've ever come across in Thailand is this very point, that from the outset the Farang was lying to himself.

Put it to the test the next time you hear a Farang telling you 'what a good thing he's onto' - Invariably he knows he's not onto a good thing but tells himself the lie.

The subject might be the perfect woman he's just met, the job offer, the business opportunity or the unmissable deal - Reality is switched off, the Farang lies to himself and then when it goes sour everyone else was telling lies.

[Thaddeus]

Boss: Why were you late?

Employee: Oh traffic, mak, mak.

Boss: You just told me yesterday that you take the BTS to work

Employee: Blank stare.

Have many examples of that, but the one that really irks is when you get a bigger lie to cover up the small one. Apologies for this being quite lengthy, but it needs detail.

A few weeks ago my dog Joe was semi-asleep on the pavement outside the bar, on the dividing line between it and the bar next door. I was busy playing pool I think when the bar owner rushes in saying that Joe had bitten someone, I went for a look of course. Next door the Pepsi delivery man was sitting on a table with one of his trouser legs rolled up, half way up his shin was a tiny amount of blood, a 'don't do that again warning snap' and not a 'I'm going to rip your leg off and eat it in-front of you bite'

I explained to the bar owner and the Pepsi man by proxy that he must have done something wrong as Joe would spend hours a day in that position with hundreds of people walking around him and never even a snarl at anyone for years (other dogs yes, people no).... but no, the Pepsi man was adamant that he didn't do anything and Joe just bit him for no reason.

I returned to get my mobile and on entering the bar where I had been, two farangs who were sitting close to the outside asked me what was going on, so I told them. They both told me what I had already guessed. Joe was where he was the last time I saw him and the Pepsi man had booted him quite hard when walking past him....... aha.

I went back next door with this information ..... now it would have been very easy to get out of this for the Pepsi man. If he had said that he had been carrying a crate and tripped over Joe I would have responded with "Ok, accident, you scare dog by accident, he has had all his shots, and he isn't a bad dog, but here is a hundred baht for the hospital to take care of your gaping wound"

Did he do that, no, he went into a wild rant about 'farangs not see, farangs cannot see'.... when I pointed out the relative positions of him, the dog and the farangs and the fact that you would have to be blind to miss it he proceeded to rant on with 'dog not there, dog not there' ..... so I asked him where the dog was and he pointed to a spot some twenty feet up the road..... so I explained to him that yes if Joe was there the farangs would not be able to see him, but I asked him how if he was here 'pointing left, and the dog was there 'pointing way right' how did the dog manage to bite him from twenty feet away.

Blank stare.

[somchaismith]

^^ You're lucky you have neat investigative skills.

IME, in similar circumstances, after having dogs bite friends of mine, on the street, outside shops, on more than one occasion, the owners would usually deny ownership of their dogs .

Edited December 30, 2010 by somchaismith

[geriatrickid]

Well, I hope you got a new Pepsi man or switched to coke.

[Shotime]

With my ex-TGF it was very easy to tell when she would lie. It was whenever her lips moved. I'd purposely ask her a question I knew she would lie about just to see how funny she could be without trying. The truth is, she really didn't care, so it was easy to tell.

I grew up with a first-cousin who was a habitual liar. He would lie even if the truth would have made him look better. Of course, he's an extreme case, but I did learn not to believe anything someone told me. Especially here from any nationality. I don't really care that much if it doesn't hurt or affect me. I think I'll start lying, too. You can have a lot more fun that way.

[Thaddeus]

Well, I hope you got a new Pepsi man or switched to coke.

We were already Coke, next door was Pepsi........ hence the kick in the first place I think

[MrBrad]

One of the basic conventions of language and speech is "truth telling;" we assume that most of the time--close to 100% of the time--that what you say and what you hear are the truth.

"I'm going shopping, do you want to came with me?" We believe that the person speaking is telling the truth about where he or she is going, and that the offer to accompany the shopper is genuine.

This is how it goes all day long, whether interacting with others, listening to the news on radio or TV, or reading the newspaper or a magazine or a book.

Once in a while, though, we are caught either in being told a lie or the telling of a lie. An acceptable white lie (in my opinion) would be if during World War II I were asked if I was harboring any Jews in my house. I would say "no," and hope that the police make no further investigation of my house.

Yet, more and more in my old age here I find myself for good reason doubting what is given to me as truth. Not all of it revolves around money, either. Maybe, annoying as it is, it's just a cultural idiosyncrasy that I have yet to accept.

[Shotime]

I learned about lies at an early age. It was when Wimpy would say "I'll gladly pay you on Tuesday for a hamburger today."

[maccaroni man]

Actually, for as much as lying seems to be a part of Thai culture they are remarkably bad at it. Part of that is that they don't expect to ever have their lies questioned so they put very little effort into making them believable. I mean, back home when you want to tell a lie as simple as why you were late this morning you go through all sorts of different scenarios in your head. You work out possible rebuttals and your responses. You make sure that your lie is plausible. Etc, etc, etc. Thais just seem to say the first thing that pops into their heads.

Examples:

Farang Lie:

Boss: Why were you late?

Employee: Oh, it was crazy. I was coming down Sukhumvit, you know near Soi 10, right near the park? Anyway, a cop stops me and asks me to empty my pockets. I tell him no way. So he threatens to take me down to the police station and . . . well, long story short, I have to go to the ATM to pull out some money to make the problem go away. See, I have the ATM receipt right here. I had to give him 1000 baht.

Thai Lie:

Boss: Why were you late?

Employee: Oh traffic, mak, mak.

Boss: You just told me yesterday that you take the BTS to work

Employee: Blank stare.

and spot on

[Kwasaki]

" QUOTE ". Thailand where lying is actually a part of the culture

(is that true of any other cultures as much as or more than here?)

for whatever reason good or bad

TO SAVE FACE

to save the others face

so that things go smoothly

to get your way

to make others feel better

to cheat

to make yourself feel better

to get what you want

to not have to do something

to get to do something

(yes i know this is not only in Thailand)

and whatever other reasons

you are welcome to post here

that in itself might be enlightening " end quote ".

To be or not to be that is the question.

Yes !! Lies are part of life anyway I think I must at times in my life done all of those and more , why don't you ask your MP for some more, they are better at it than most.

I remember my mum use to say there's nothing wrong in telling white lies if it stops someone from being hurt.

In seeing or in telling what actually happen is what I see as the real truth not what you are told.

What is said before or after is important and matters as to whether it's the truth or a lye at the end of the day.

Maybe what is said by someone that is a belief at the the time just for it to end up being wrong doesn't mean it was a lye in the first place.

Truth has no Translation.

One thing is I never lie on TV.

[pjclark1]

At age 52 I came to Thailand

At age 52.5 I learned to lie like everyone else here

"You want to boom boom 20 year old girl sitting next to us? .... no darling I love only you"

"You go to Karaoke bar last night? ........ no darling I never go to those sort of places, I just play pool with my mates"

"How many beers you drink? ........ only one"

Edited December 30, 2010 by pjclark1

[Moonrakers]

At age 52 I came to Thailand

At age 52.5 I learned to lie like everyone else here

"You want to boom boom 20 year old girl sitting next to us? .... no darling I love only you"

"You go to Karaoke bar last night? ........ no darling I never go to those sort of places, I just play pool with my mates"

"How many beers you drink? ........ only one"

So you're not "allowed" to drink and go to karaoke bars then?

[pjclark1]

So you're not "allowed" to drink and go to karaoke bars then?

You missed the having sex with young girls in the 'not allowed' list!

[Moonrakers]

So you're not "allowed" to drink and go to karaoke bars then?

You missed the having sex with young girls in the 'not allowed' list!

No I didn't. Not sleeping around is a reasonable request.

But not being 'allowed' to drink and go to karaoke bars is positively under the thumb.

[pjclark1]

I always found drinking and going to Karaoke bars led to sex with young girls ...... the end stage of an inevitable process

(unless, of course, one passed out first)

You might have much more self control than me ......

Edited December 30, 2010 by pjclark1

[F1fanatic]

I just find it depressing, having been told too many times by masseurs/hairdressers/manicurists etc. how their husbands died in a motorbike accident.

Obviously lots of men do die in motorbike accidents - but its a bit unlikely that I've been unlucky enough to have met most of the widows!

Which means..... that I do not believe any of them and (inwardly) get annoyed that they think I'm that stupid.

The unfortunate part of it is that the odd one may well have lost their husband in a motorbike accident and need the extra tip.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

I just find it depressing, having been told too many times by masseurs/hairdressers/manicurists etc. how their husbands died in a motorbike accident.

Obviously lots of men do die in motorbike accidents - but its a bit unlikely that I've been unlucky enough to have met most of the widows!

Which means..... that I do not believe any of them and (inwardly) get annoyed that they think I'm that stupid.

The unfortunate part of it is that the odd one may well have lost their husband in a motorbike accident and need the extra tip.

Don't get offended by their (very correct) generalisation / assumption that you are stupid. It's not intended to be an offence; you can almost treat it as an indirect compliment. You're far brighter than all the many men who created the generalisation that Western men are gullible suckers. You should smile, chuffed at your clear intellectual superiority. At which point, you will no doubt subject them to an almost identical generalisation - potentially far more insulting, however (if they actually were widowed in such tragic circumstances).

But eh, they wouldn't get offended. You certainly shouldn't.