Help! Visa Options And Severance Enquiry

[spectrumisgreen]

Both my Work Permit and my Working Visa expire on the last day of March 2011.

The school I work at has always (sneakily!) given me a contract for only 11 months each year, May 1st to March 31st - no pay for April!! - though, as I've been there over 3 years now, I've obviously learned to accept that this is just the way it is and it's what I'm going to get given, come each February, March time when they get round to looking into it again! (Yes, I've looked for other work, but push comes to shove, time always running out, into a new year, I take what I've come to appreciate at least gets me those stamps, to guarantee my stay another year!)

This time however, due to a new Dept Head, apparently wanting her 'own' chosen farang teachers - there's 2 of us, we're not kids, and she's been trying to STAMP her 'authority' since day 1 (not fun!)! - and the vacuum the recent retirement of the School Director has brought about, it seems we probably won't be getting any renewal, certainly not in time for the new School Year, work permit and visa expiry dates!!!

So, 2 questions, on behalf of us both (though I think my colleague may just return 'home'!):

1) What are my options so that I don't have to immediately go back to England, visa-wise, beginning of April? (NB: I don't mind moving to a tourist visa at least to extend my job-hunting, if necessary, to buy time!).

2) Do I have any rights for any severance pay? (NB: despite the yearly 11 month contract 'issue', my work-permit has been current and continuously valid, since February 2008, my non-Immigrant visa since March 2008).

I would greatly appreciate any advice and information anyone can give me.

Thanks,

SiG

Edited December 30, 2010 by spectrumisgreen

[Scott]

If you work for a gov't school you may be eligible for severance, but with the private schools you probably will not.

Others may have more current information.

[spectrumisgreen]

If you work for a gov't school you may be eligible for severance, but with the private schools you probably will not.

Others may have more current information.

Yes, I'm with a Govt School. Thanks.

[Scott]

There are two laws that apply to most schools. The private schools fall under the Private School Act and the gov't schools fall under the Thai labor laws that apply to most businesses.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

[Carib]

Something concerning rights, duties and severance pay on this page of the labor protection act.

Hope this helps.

http://www.bia.co.th/013.html

[spectrumisgreen]

Thanks for the input I've received so far, all the advice and info I can get right now is very welcome and greatly appreciated!

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!!

[Mario2008]

Visa wise you will have to leave the county and get a tourist visa from Vientiane Laos for example or find a new job that starts when your current job ends.

[spectrumisgreen]

Visa wise you will have to leave the county and get a tourist visa from Vientiane Laos for example or find a new job that starts when your current job ends.

Cheers for that. Looks like Vientiane will be my 'fall-back' plan so I don't have to return to the the UK straight away.

[mopenyang]

If you work for a gov't school you may be eligible for severance, but with the private schools you probably will not.

Others may have more current information.

I know of a case involving a private international school presently in Labour Court in Bangkok and the judge has given no indication whatsoever that severance is outside the realm of possibility because of the Private School Act or for any other reason. In fact, the judge expressed surprise at an earlier hearing asking why had not the school already settled with the plaintiff.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

if your contract expires, you are not entitled to severance pay. You only get severance pay where the contract is terminated by the employer in the absence of gross misconduct, or where you have a contract of indeterminate length.

[mopenyang]

if your contract expires, you are not entitled to severance pay. You only get severance pay where the contract is terminated by the employer in the absence of gross misconduct, or where you have a contract of indeterminate length.

Absolutely incorrect.

[Scott]

I believe that international schools are not covered by the Private School act.

I but a probably in the scenario because private schools have been able to get out of paying severance for one reason or another. They often do pay-off employees who take them to court or threaten to do so if there is some justification.

Unfortunately, we seldom get first hand accounts in which there is factual information. There are a lot of variables in court cases that might affect the income.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

if your contract expires, you are not entitled to severance pay. You only get severance pay where the contract is terminated by the employer in the absence of gross misconduct, or where you have a contract of indeterminate length.

Absolutely incorrect.

LPA (1998) Section 118 (no severance pay for termination at end of contract)

Labor Protection Act (1998)

LPA (2008) Sections 17 (no notice required for termination at expiration of contract);119 (no severance pay for gross misconduct)

Labor Protection Act (2008)

Let's see: You a layman with no support in the law. Me, a lawyer with citations from the labor code.. Who are you going to believe?

[Firelily]

Anyone here who successfully transferred a visa and work permit from one school to another? Not that I know lots of people, but never heard of this happen, it is "too difficult", apparently. I would be glad if it turned out that it is not so difficult after all and there are schools out there that are willing to do it.

[mopenyang]

if your contract expires, you are not entitled to severance pay. You only get severance pay where the contract is terminated by the employer in the absence of gross misconduct, or where you have a contract of indeterminate length.

Absolutely incorrect.

LPA (1998) Section 118 (no severance pay for termination at end of contract)

Labor Protection Act (1998)

LPA (2008) Sections 17 (no notice required for termination at expiration of contract);119 (no severance pay for gross misconduct)

Labor Protection Act (2008)

Let's see: You a layman with no support in the law. Me, a lawyer with citations from the labor code.. Who are you going to believe?

My Thai lawyers specialize in Labour Court cases and have won cases of the type that you seem to think it impossible to be awarded severance simply because a contract has expired.

Are you aware that it is quite common for severance cases in the Labour Court in Thailand not to be filed until the contract has expired?

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

if your contract expires, you are not entitled to severance pay. You only get severance pay where the contract is terminated by the employer in the absence of gross misconduct, or where you have a contract of indeterminate length.

Absolutely incorrect.

LPA (1998) Section 118 (no severance pay for termination at end of contract)

Labor Protection Act (1998)

LPA (2008) Sections 17 (no notice required for termination at expiration of contract);119 (no severance pay for gross misconduct)

Labor Protection Act (2008)

Let's see: You a layman with no support in the law. Me, a lawyer with citations from the labor code.. Who are you going to believe?

My Thai lawyers specialize in Labour Court cases and have won cases of the type that you seem to think it impossible to be awarded severance simply because a contract has expired.

Are you aware that it is quite common for severance cases in the Labour Court in Thailand not to be filed until the contract has expired?

Thai lawyers don't work on contingency. All money is paid up front by the litigant. "Yes, we win all our severance cases" he says with his hand stretched out, stealing the poor teacher's money. Of course he is going to tell you that! The law I cited is crystal clear, and only some tea money paid to the judge would change that.

BTW, your last sentence makes no sense at all. The SOL for a severance case is 3 years. Once you're terminated, it doesn't matter when the contract expires, as the contract has already been abrogated by the employer!

[mopenyang]

Thai lawyers don't work on contingency. All money is paid up front by the litigant.

Not always the case.

Have you ever represented a litigant in a severance case in Labour Court in Thailand?

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Thai lawyers don't work on contingency. All money is paid up front by the litigant.

Not always the case.

Have you ever represented a litigant in a severance case in Labour Court in Thailand?

No, and neither have you. It's the way the government prevents competent litigators from overrunning the poor lot they call attorneys in this country. How do I know? I oversee dozens of these Thai "lawyers" as part of my job. I've fired more lawyers than I've fired employees here in Thailand. The protection of their profession allows them to operate a legalized organized crime syndicate. I've never heard of any of them working on a contingency basis. And, by the way, I've been involved in about 15 cases where severance pay was claimed.

[Scott]

Thanks for the input and legal advice. There are firms with foreign attorneys. I believe one of the sponsors, Sunbelt, is one.

It never hurts for someone to check with a reputable attorney/firm about his/her particular situation. It's a little hard to ascertain the merits of the case, the mitigating circumstances and other factors which affect each individual.

On the forum, we have had some who have said they got severance and others who have said they haven't.

[mopenyang]

Thai lawyers don't work on contingency. All money is paid up front by the litigant.

Not always the case.

Have you ever represented a litigant in a severance case in Labour Court in Thailand?

No, and neither have you. It's the way the government prevents competent litigators from overrunning the poor lot they call attorneys in this country. How do I know? I oversee dozens of these Thai "lawyers" as part of my job. I've fired more lawyers than I've fired employees here in Thailand. The protection of their profession allows them to operate a legalized organized crime syndicate. I've never heard of any of them working on a contingency basis. And, by the way, I've been involved in about 15 cases where severance pay was claimed.

Impressive but it also sounds like you should know better than to make the blanket statement that all Thai lawyers don't work on a contingency basis.

This may have been your experience but it is surely not mine.

So of the 15 severance cases that you were involved in, can you tell us how many were actually adjudicated at the Labour Court level rather than at the ministry/administrative level?

Were they all thrown out or were some of the plaintiffs able to successfully prosecute their severance claim?

[quandow]

Check about working with the Sarasas School System. Though they have their issues, visas, pay, and integrity concerning both was never a problem the two years I worked there.

[Phatcharanan]

No, and neither have you. It's the way the government prevents competent litigators from overrunning the poor lot they call attorneys in this country. How do I know? I oversee dozens of these Thai "lawyers" as part of my job. I've fired more lawyers than I've fired employees here in Thailand. The protection of their profession allows them to operate a legalized organized crime syndicate. I've never heard of any of them working on a contingency basis. And, by the way, I've been involved in about 15 cases where severance pay was claimed.

I'll be blunt.

You're talking <deleted>. 1 year contracts cannot be used in order to circumvent Thai labour law regarding what is and what is not a 'permanent employee/position'.

Also, whilst the Private Schools Act does away with access to certain rights for foreigners.........it is still not allowed to circumvent Thai labour law regarding severance pay.

Quote all the sections of the law you like but there have been reported cases where rolling 1 year contracts have been proved to be a means of attempting to get around the labour law.

Perhaps you should do a few searches on the forums.

[spectrumisgreen]

Thai lawyers don't work on contingency. All money is paid up front by the litigant.

Not always the case.

Have you ever represented a litigant in a severance case in Labour Court in Thailand?

No, and neither have you. It's the way the government prevents competent litigators from overrunning the poor lot they call attorneys in this country. How do I know? I oversee dozens of these Thai "lawyers" as part of my job. I've fired more lawyers than I've fired employees here in Thailand. The protection of their profession allows them to operate a legalized organized crime syndicate. I've never heard of any of them working on a contingency basis. And, by the way, I've been involved in about 15 cases where severance pay was claimed.

Thanks for the advice from you all! Personally, I'm not really expecting anything from my school as they've always tried to cut corners, money-wise, except where buying needless aesthetic things, and I won't have the money to take anything to court anyway, if they don't renew, which looks like the case!! Kobkun kap..