Teen Involved In Fatal Bangkok Tollway Crash Stressed Out : Mum

[neverdie]

HELLO! (carried over from other mother related thread)

No Nisa, thats not what I mean because its not mentioned in the law that its against the law, I am simply trying to point out it has no legal boundary (the process of flicking ones lights).

Is that better mr dead moderator (from never dead) ?

at the dept of transport at jatujak they told me specifically flickering the lights holds no right to go ahead on the road. they told us not to copy that trend that we often see on the roads as it causes confusion.

hope they take that into consideration....doubtful though!

Also, at night time its just outright dangerous, idiots flashing their lights, blinding drivers of other cars in both directions, makes no sense whatsoever.

Doing this in my home country especially at night would be the fastest way to get your teeth knocked down ur throat

Edited January 2, 2011 by neverdie

[katana]

www.hondacitythailand.com/club/thread-5778-1-1.html

I typed this manually so I hope it works. By the way it's in Thai.

The number plate in the hondacity website pics (ณ 1541) is different from that of the pic after the crash (ฏว 8461)?

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-534901

Because they are temporary red plates before full White plates come through........

No, it appears they are different cars, one a Honda City and the other a Honda Civic. (See post 256 in this thread).

Edited January 2, 2011 by katana

[happyrobert]

You know, her body language in the photo certainly is indicative of a certain attitude, but I am tired of people who think everything is black and white and that stereotypes are an aid in coming to a correct conclusion.

My guess is that they are both guilty. They were both driving too fast and trying to "be first". Minibus drivers are - typically- just as every bit bad drivers as 16 year olds. They keep their transmissions centered over the lines that divide the lanes and drive like maniacs, making it frustrating for other drivers. Probably a bit of, yep, I know it's hard to believe, face-saving driving at play here.

The police/investigators have repeatedly stated that the video evidence is inconclusive and "experts" (if there are any in LOS) have conflicting conclusions. So how can they justify filing charges?

it might help if you read at least some of the earlier posts, then you might guess differently.

"So how can they justify filing charges?" The honda driver is 16, driving under-age, unlicenced, without insurance (due to previous 2 offences), admits speeding, and claims that she flashed her lights but the van made an unsafe lane change. If she had braked instead of trying to force her way through, 9 people would most probably be alive. But she's hi-so and they were mere wannabe's, let's give her an <deleted> medal.

Simply because she is w/o a license or insurance does not warrant charging her with the deaths in any western country. Speeding does not warrant the charges either. I am not familiar with the law in Thailand but in California, where I was a cop for twenty years, she must clearly display driving in a manner that she was aware she could cause the deaths, and so far no evidence of that has appeared anywhere.

If, in fact, as you state above, the van driver made an abrupt lane change, the accident is his fault, even if she was speeding. She can be charged with everything else, but not homicide - at least in the States.

But maybe you are a Thai criminal lawyer?

As for you Neverdie, the mini-bus drivers from Trad to Pattaya and Bangkok, are by almost all accounts, maniacs who can not stop changing lanes, and switching from slamming on the brakes and accelerating. I drove with them twice, at 500 a pop, and the second time I had him stop halfway at a gas station and waited 3 hours for a friend to come get me. Many of them have removed the seat belts. Now I fly from Trat to BKK.

[neverdie]

As for you Neverdie, the mini-bus drivers from Trad to Pattaya and Bangkok, are by almost all accounts, maniacs who can not stop changing lanes, and switching from slamming on the brakes and accelerating. I drove with them twice, at 500 a pop, and the second time I had him stop halfway at a gas station and waited 3 hours for a friend to come get me. Many of them have removed the seat belts. Now I fly from Trat to BKK.

It certainly seems like you are giving a real seeing to.

Sorry, I should of mentioned that today isnt my first in Thailand and I am well aware of what goes on, nearly every day a van driver tries to kill me. However, we can't simply write all van drivers off as aholes & bad drivers, heck you never know you might even be a van driver one day

[transam]

I know we cannot categorise all van drivers but l have had a few altercations with some on the road when on my visa trips to Lao. There does seem to be a mind set to get from A to B pronto, what ever the risks with these guys/gals.

[neverdie]

I know we cannot categorise all van drivers but l have had a few altercations with some on the road when on my visa trips to Lao. There does seem to be a mind set to get from A to B pronto, what ever the risks with these guys/gals.

Yeah, its a bit like hoons in V8 cars. They are all the same. :jap:

When the Police conduct their investigations, I hope they remain alot more impartial that you lot.

I've got an idea, why don't they investigate the circumstances that surround that incident & not roll up with preconceived ideas about all mechanics I mean van drivers.

[OzMick]

You know, her body language in the photo certainly is indicative of a certain attitude, but I am tired of people who think everything is black and white and that stereotypes are an aid in coming to a correct conclusion.

My guess is that they are both guilty. They were both driving too fast and trying to "be first". Minibus drivers are - typically- just as every bit bad drivers as 16 year olds. They keep their transmissions centered over the lines that divide the lanes and drive like maniacs, making it frustrating for other drivers. Probably a bit of, yep, I know it's hard to believe, face-saving driving at play here.

The police/investigators have repeatedly stated that the video evidence is inconclusive and "experts" (if there are any in LOS) have conflicting conclusions. So how can they justify filing charges?

it might help if you read at least some of the earlier posts, then you might guess differently.

"So how can they justify filing charges?" The honda driver is 16, driving under-age, unlicenced, without insurance (due to previous 2 offences), admits speeding, and claims that she flashed her lights but the van made an unsafe lane change. If she had braked instead of trying to force her way through, 9 people would most probably be alive. But she's hi-so and they were mere wannabe's, let's give her an <deleted> medal.

Simply because she is w/o a license or insurance does not warrant charging her with the deaths in any western country. Speeding does not warrant the charges either. I am not familiar with the law in Thailand but in California, where I was a cop for twenty years, she must clearly display driving in a manner that she was aware she could cause the deaths, and so far no evidence of that has appeared anywhere.

If, in fact, as you state above, the van driver made an abrupt lane change, the accident is his fault, even if she was speeding. She can be charged with everything else, but not homicide - at least in the States.

But maybe you are a Thai criminal lawyer?

As for you Neverdie, the mini-bus drivers from Trad to Pattaya and Bangkok, are by almost all accounts, maniacs who can not stop changing lanes, and switching from slamming on the brakes and accelerating. I drove with them twice, at 500 a pop, and the second time I had him stop halfway at a gas station and waited 3 hours for a friend to come get me. Many of them have removed the seat belts. Now I fly from Trat to BKK.

Fortuneately, we are not in CA which sounds like a lawyers paradise. I did suggest you read some of the earlier posts, some advice you have ignored, which contributes to even more errors in your post.

Firstly I will disagree with your statement about MOST western countries. As I understand it, if you are driving illegally, and any one of unlicenced, under-age or speeding would do) then the initial response is that you are at fault unless there is contrary evidence. It certainly applies in NSW, and the other 2 Aus states where I have held licences.

Secondly, you continue to bundle the van driver with reckless drivers, when in fact there has been several posts indicating the SHE was nothing of the sort.

Thirdly, I didn't claim that the van made an abrupt lane change (something a professional driver is hardly likely to do at highway speed in a mini-van full of people), the claim of the honda driver was that she made an "unsafe lane change" - evidence that is likely to be as exculpatory as it is biased.

I am not a thai criminal lawyer, but I will ask you - given the circumstances of a 2 year -under-age, unlicenced driver who admits speeding and is involved in an accident where 9 people end up on a slab, what would that driver be charged with in CA? Can a rich and powerful daddy get you off?

" So how can they justify filing charges?" More likely, how can they justify NOT filing charges.

[Nisa]

it might help if you read at least some of the earlier posts, then you might guess differently.

"So how can they justify filing charges?" The honda driver is 16, driving under-age, unlicenced, without insurance (due to previous 2 offences), admits speeding, and claims that she flashed her lights but the van made an unsafe lane change. If she had braked instead of trying to force her way through, 9 people would most probably be alive. But she's hi-so and they were mere wannabe's, let's give her an <deleted> medal.

Simply because she is w/o a license or insurance does not warrant charging her with the deaths in any western country. Speeding does not warrant the charges either. I am not familiar with the law in Thailand but in California, where I was a cop for twenty years, she must clearly display driving in a manner that she was aware she could cause the deaths, and so far no evidence of that has appeared anywhere.

If, in fact, as you state above, the van driver made an abrupt lane change, the accident is his fault, even if she was speeding. She can be charged with everything else, but not homicide - at least in the States.

But maybe you are a Thai criminal lawyer?

As for you Neverdie, the mini-bus drivers from Trad to Pattaya and Bangkok, are by almost all accounts, maniacs who can not stop changing lanes, and switching from slamming on the brakes and accelerating. I drove with them twice, at 500 a pop, and the second time I had him stop halfway at a gas station and waited 3 hours for a friend to come get me. Many of them have removed the seat belts. Now I fly from Trat to BKK.

Fortuneately, we are not in CA which sounds like a lawyers paradise. I did suggest you read some of the earlier posts, some advice you have ignored, which contributes to even more errors in your post.

Firstly I will disagree with your statement about MOST western countries. As I understand it, if you are driving illegally, and any one of unlicenced, under-age or speeding would do) then the initial response is that you are at fault unless there is contrary evidence. It certainly applies in NSW, and the other 2 Aus states where I have held licences.

Secondly, you continue to bundle the van driver with reckless drivers, when in fact there has been several posts indicating the SHE was nothing of the sort.

Thirdly, I didn't claim that the van made an abrupt lane change (something a professional driver is hardly likely to do at highway speed in a mini-van full of people), the claim of the honda driver was that she made an "unsafe lane change" - evidence that is likely to be as exculpatory as it is biased.

I am not a thai criminal lawyer, but I will ask you - given the circumstances of a 2 year -under-age, unlicenced driver who admits speeding and is involved in an accident where 9 people end up on a slab, what would that driver be charged with in CA? Can a rich and powerful daddy get you off?

" So how can they justify filing charges?" More likely, how can they justify NOT filing charges.

Your ongoing logic has no logic outside a science fiction movie about time travel and effecting future/past events by our actions. Van driver was driving illegal too as she was not wearing a seatbelt. We have also not heard anything yet as if her and/or her company had the proper licenses to transport people. In either case she should have not been on the road driving illegally and if she wasn't the accident would not have happened according to your posted logic that you have stated numerous times.

Also, driving without a license doesn't make you automatically at fault in Thailand and I don't believe there is an additional charge for driving underage. There is a law that states you need to be a certain age to acquire a valid license so there is no reason to add another law stating it is illegal to drive under a certain age since one needs a license to drive. So, you past statements about her being charged with both crimes of driver underage and w/o a DL are in all likely hood illogical and why you (and not the police) are the only one mentioning charging her with both things.

Do you have a link to the law in Australia that makes a driver automatically at fault if they are violating any traffic law? I did a couple quick Google searches and couldn't find the law.

Bottom line is the girls license has nothing to do with the cause of the accident unless you want to go back further in history as maybe a driver ran a red light causing her to be delayed as her light turned from Green to Red. Had that driver not done that then the girl would not have been at that place and time to get into an accident.

At this point what would seem logical to the average person is to believe what the girl has stated and that is the accident would not have happened or been as bad if she was not speeding.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

You know, her body language in the photo certainly is indicative of a certain attitude, but I am tired of people who think everything is black and white and that stereotypes are an aid in coming to a correct conclusion.

My guess is that they are both guilty. They were both driving too fast and trying to "be first". Minibus drivers are - typically- just as every bit bad drivers as 16 year olds. They keep their transmissions centered over the lines that divide the lanes and drive like maniacs, making it frustrating for other drivers. Probably a bit of, yep, I know it's hard to believe, face-saving driving at play here.

The police/investigators have repeatedly stated that the video evidence is inconclusive and "experts" (if there are any in LOS) have conflicting conclusions. So how can they justify filing charges?

it might help if you read at least some of the earlier posts, then you might guess differently.

"So how can they justify filing charges?" The honda driver is 16, driving under-age, unlicenced, without insurance (due to previous 2 offences), admits speeding, and claims that she flashed her lights but the van made an unsafe lane change. If she had braked instead of trying to force her way through, 9 people would most probably be alive. But she's hi-so and they were mere wannabe's, let's give her an <deleted> medal.

Simply because she is w/o a license or insurance does not warrant charging her with the deaths in any western country. Speeding does not warrant the charges either. I am not familiar with the law in Thailand but in California, where I was a cop for twenty years, she must clearly display driving in a manner that she was aware she could cause the deaths, and so far no evidence of that has appeared anywhere.

If, in fact, as you state above, the van driver made an abrupt lane change, the accident is his fault, even if she was speeding. She can be charged with everything else, but not homicide - at least in the States.

But maybe you are a Thai criminal lawyer?

As for you Neverdie, the mini-bus drivers from Trad to Pattaya and Bangkok, are by almost all accounts, maniacs who can not stop changing lanes, and switching from slamming on the brakes and accelerating. I drove with them twice, at 500 a pop, and the second time I had him stop halfway at a gas station and waited 3 hours for a friend to come get me. Many of them have removed the seat belts. Now I fly from Trat to BKK.

Fortuneately, we are not in CA which sounds like a lawyers paradise. I did suggest you read some of the earlier posts, some advice you have ignored, which contributes to even more errors in your post.

Firstly I will disagree with your statement about MOST western countries. As I understand it, if you are driving illegally, and any one of unlicenced, under-age or speeding would do) then the initial response is that you are at fault unless there is contrary evidence. It certainly applies in NSW, and the other 2 Aus states where I have held licences.

Secondly, you continue to bundle the van driver with reckless drivers, when in fact there has been several posts indicating the SHE was nothing of the sort.

Thirdly, I didn't claim that the van made an abrupt lane change (something a professional driver is hardly likely to do at highway speed in a mini-van full of people), the claim of the honda driver was that she made an "unsafe lane change" - evidence that is likely to be as exculpatory as it is biased.

I am not a thai criminal lawyer, but I will ask you - given the circumstances of a 2 year -under-age, unlicenced driver who admits speeding and is involved in an accident where 9 people end up on a slab, what would that driver be charged with in CA? Can a rich and powerful daddy get you off?

" So how can they justify filing charges?" More likely, how can they justify NOT filing charges.

Also .. If what you are saying is true regarding 2 providences in Australia .. that hardly negates the term of "most western countries"

Because there are "posts" about the van driver we should believe them when the only accident witness statements we heard related to the van driver making unsafe lane changes you choose to believe those "posts" (actually only know 1 poster) that claim to have taken this van before and the women smiled and drove good. You are so quick to believe the girl when she says she was speeding but completely dismiss her stating the van driver was making unsafe lane changes and came into her lane as she was passing.

Your comments about "professional drivers" is almost comical, if not for the topic, when you apply it to the typical van driver in Thailand.

Your comments (along with your previous posts) about "powerful daddy" clearly show you are the one with biased beliefs about and that relate to something the girl driver has and had no control of.

[cdnvic]

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