Video Clips Worsen Case Of Detained Thais In Cambodia

[geovalin]

Just when the Dems were looking fairly good for a election victory this happens,the PT should have a field day, and if Abhisit really was in the know then he really wants slapping down by the puppet masters(though probably that's where the orders came from).

Yet another Thai international debacle.

With such Thai PM (Prime Minister and Puppets Master)in Thailand, Hun Sen will win the Nobel Peace Prize.

How could Abisith attend the next ASEAN summit?

Regarding the PT, they indeed miss a leader. The Dem's have at least a leader even if it's...

[Buchholz]

It seems strange that nobody wants to arrest the person who took the video this time - unless he has already been arrested (which at least one newspaper has suggested has happened, by the Cambodians though, not the Thais). Anyway Panich and co could always claim in their defence they were using Google Maps (http://abcnews.go.co...tory?id=9797440)

It was reported in the other local paper that the video was shot by one of those Thais that was arrested.

[phiphidon]

It seems strange that nobody wants to arrest the person who took the video this time - unless he has already been arrested (which at least one newspaper has suggested has happened, by the Cambodians though, not the Thais). Anyway Panich and co could always claim in their defence they were using Google Maps (http://abcnews.go.co...tory?id=9797440)

It was reported in the other local paper that the video was shot by one of those Thais that was arrested.

Agreed, that was what I was alluding to with out being too obvious about the source.

[mkawish]

For those of you who are throwing stones for whatever reasons, you probably were not watching the very first telecast in Thai involving the 7 before and during their arrest.

The govt representative was on a hand phone telling someone at the other end that he and the group were on the thai soil surrounded by Thai farmers and their houses.

Which was entirely different from what was posted on the youtube video.

Someone doctored up the video conversation.

And then there was a lady who was not arrested. The reporter asked her why wasn't she arrested too?

She said in Thai that she was on the last vehicle and could not catch up with others.

She stated that the 7 were definitely still on Thai soil when they were arrested for whatever reason.

The villagers living around that areas also stated that the 7 were on their farmland when the Camb soldiers came after the gruop.

The farmers also said that they have ChaNote (warranty deed) issued by Thailand some fifty years back as evidence of their proprietorship, before the Camb setup their houses in their land which they have had launched multiple complaints to the local soldiers who told them not to be trouble makers.

The local farmers also filed written complaints to the center govt but to date never received any response either.

As far as the first initial report of the arrest of the 7 on Thai tele was concerned it definitely showed that the 7 were still on Thai boundary according to the local Thai farmers who live and work there since their birth.

A point of interest was, during the Cabinet meeting chaired by PM Apisit, when a lady reporter questioned SuThep directly as to--Yesterday, why did you say that the 7 was arrested some 3 kilometers inside Camb boundary?

Suthep sheepishly said, I heard the report from my aides incorrectly yesterday.

How interesting and convenient that was, I thought at the time, for a deputy PM to say something that was totally and absolutely fallacious, empowering the Camb govt to go ahead with the prosecution while there was no ground at all and no reason at all for such incident to happen.

On the contrary, if the Thai govt were in any shape and form at all to deal with any international issue, the Thai PM, Apisit, would immediately announce to the world that the Camb encroached Thai soil and arrested Thai MP and his group, thus amounting to declaring war on Thailand....

What actually happens is, a week after the shameless incident, the Thai PM, Apisit and his able deputy SuThep are still practically begging for the Camb to show mercy and to release the 7 at some point to heighten their cooperation and

Thailand will accept whatever the Camb court would ditch out as punishment....

Oh Thailand, my beloved Thailand.... since whence have thou sunk so lowly and so utterly shamelessly....

Your forefathers and mothers would turn over in their graves....

But I still love you, Thailand, and I believe that there are still many good people and good soldiers in Thailand, who will not suffer injustice and unjustified shame to the n^th degree for too long.... I humbly salute you all....

Edited January 4, 2011 by mkawish

[mkawish]

Why would they enter Cambodia illegally when it is so easy for a Thai to enter Cambodia now. I doubt they would even have to wait in line given their positions. In fact, they now have border crossings for Cambodia/Thai where no passport needs to be shown and you just use a slip of paper.

I'm not asking because I doubt they were in Cambodia but I guess just a)wondering why and b)why they entered illegally

One of the major reasons as to why the 7 was on the surveying mission and this was backed up by the Thai PM Apisit himself this morning was....

Apisit personally authorized his MP to personally find out on site and location

as to some political group's claim that Thailand has already lost the land surrounding the PraVeHarn temple and other stretches of land along the border, to the Camb.

Apisit wanted his MP to go on a fact finding mission to gather actual and personal information to use to defend his stand against the false accusation (he personally believes that the other political agitators are spreading false and untruthful info against his govt to stir up the general populace against him and his govt). Apisit firmly believes reports from his close aides and military reports that it is business as usual along the border and Thai soldiers are still in perfect control along the border).

The political gathering that he wants to disquiet with his own personal fact finding report is scheduled to happen on January 26, 2011.

Whether Thailand has already lost many border control and territorial to the Camb is now apparent to everyone watching local news.

The local farmers who were there during the arrest vouched that the 7 were on Thai soil. As a matter of fact, the 7 were on the Thai farmers' own paddy fields while being arrested by Camb soldiers.

Now, whom are we to believe? Not that it would make any different to Thai messy and shameless politics.

[Thai at Heart]

Looking at this mess, it might be the most feasible thing that Abhisit wants to get rid of this MP, so will leave him in jail in Cambodia.

[Roadman]

Why would they enter Cambodia illegally when it is so easy for a Thai to enter Cambodia now. I doubt they would even have to wait in line given their positions. In fact, they now have border crossings for Cambodia/Thai where no passport needs to be shown and you just use a slip of paper.

I'm not asking because I doubt they were in Cambodia but I guess just a)wondering why and b)why they entered illegally

One of the major reasons as to why the 7 was on the surveying mission and this was backed up by the Thai PM Apisit himself this morning was....

Apisit personally authorized his MP to personally find out on site and location

as to some political group's claim that Thailand has already lost the land surrounding the PraVeHarn temple and other stretches of land along the border, to the Camb.

Apisit wanted his MP to go on a fact finding mission to gather actual and personal information to use to defend his stand against the false accusation (he personally believes that the other political agitators are spreading false and untruthful info against his govt to stir up the general populace against him and his govt). Apisit firmly believes reports from his close aides and military reports that it is business as usual along the border and Thai soldiers are still in perfect control along the border).

The political gathering that he wants to disquiet with his own personal fact finding report is scheduled to happen on January 26, 2011.

Whether Thailand has already lost many border control and territorial to the Camb is now apparent to everyone watching local news.

The local farmers who were there during the arrest vouched that the 7 were on Thai soil. As a matter of fact, the 7 were on the Thai farmers' own paddy fields while being arrested by Camb soldiers.

Now, whom are we to believe? Not that it would make any different to Thai messy and shameless politics.

Thats the way I read it as well.

To date what stinks is why the PAD connection is there and the PAD's spokesman statement of Abhisit giving approval for them to be there I suspect is PAD political gain with the PM approval being as you say for his minister and not for scummy groups like PAD.

Having said that when the Ko Towing is done and the Thai Dem PM is back within his party then Abhisit needs to give him a good ass kicking for being there with PAD scum.

[JWJ]

Could this be another twisted plot by the yellow shirts to discredit a sitting PM and paving the way for another coup?

You can't read it in the Thai press but the leaked cables by the US Ambassador re: Thailand and politics are explosive.

The biggest story in 60 years and it's totally being ignored(suppressed) by the local media.

[bangon04]

It's about time that all Thai's recognised and admitted that they deservedly lost the temple and some surrounding land because they invaded two peaceful neighbours (Cambodia and Laos) in 1942 after being equiped by the Japanese with weapons and fighter planes.

France was then under the Vichy government and the only French nationals present in Laos and Cambodia were some 10,000 farmers and other assorted civilians armed with shotguns and the like who obviously stood no chance against a large well equiped Thai army. In 1942 the Thais erected the Victory Monument in Bangkok to celebrate their glorious victory.

Unfortunately, for Thailand Japan was beaten and it was given 24 hours to get out of the seized areas by Mountbatten. Again, unfortunately for the Thailand the team that was appointed to draw the borders after the war were all French cartographers and yes they most probably did make a few sqiggles in the line that they drew as the Cambodian/Thai border (and who could blame them) so Thailand lost the Temple and land and also a few other small areas along the borders.

They have as much chance of getting the Temple back as the Germans have of getting back the German land that Poland took,the Polish land that Russia took or the Japanese islands that Russia took. It's also (I think) only a matter of time before Hun Sen has a cable car for tourists installed at the base of the cliff so he can then, if he wants to, close the Thai entrance to the Temple and the present Thai attitude will hasten that line of thought.,

It's strange but I have never seen this part of Thai history explained so succinctly in the official school textbook.

Maybe if Thai students actually studied more history instead of flag waving and institutionalised sycophancy, they might learn from mistakes.

However, starting a nationalist conflict/cause has always been a favourite tactic to divert attention from internal problems. - like invading Iraq, invading the Falklands, invading France, etc etc etc

[random]

It's about time that all Thai's recognised and admitted that they deservedly lost the temple and some surrounding land because they invaded two peaceful neighbours (Cambodia and Laos) in 1942 after being equiped by the Japanese with weapons and fighter planes.

France was then under the Vichy government and the only French nationals present in Laos and Cambodia were some 10,000 farmers and other assorted civilians armed with shotguns and the like who obviously stood no chance against a large well equiped Thai army. In 1942 the Thais erected the Victory Monument in Bangkok to celebrate their glorious victory.

Unfortunately, for Thailand Japan was beaten and it was given 24 hours to get out of the seized areas by Mountbatten. Again, unfortunately for the Thailand the team that was appointed to draw the borders after the war were all French cartographers and yes they most probably did make a few sqiggles in the line that they drew as the Cambodian/Thai border (and who could blame them) so Thailand lost the Temple and land and also a few other small areas along the borders.

They have as much chance of getting the Temple back as the Germans have of getting back the German land that Poland took,the Polish land that Russia took or the Japanese islands that Russia took. It's also (I think) only a matter of time before Hun Sen has a cable car for tourists installed at the base of the cliff so he can then, if he wants to, close the Thai entrance to the Temple and the present Thai attitude will hasten that line of thought.,

It's strange but I have never seen this part of Thai history explained so succinctly in the official school textbook.

Maybe if Thai students actually studied more history instead of flag waving and institutionalised sycophancy, they might learn from mistakes.

However, starting a nationalist conflict/cause has always been a favourite tactic to divert attention from internal problems. - like invading Iraq, invading the Falklands, invading France, etc etc etc

I mention this is another post, we have an election coming up, we have a lame government that has not been able to win an election for many years, we have evidence coming out about just who was responsible for the deaths the april/may, we have endless broken promises and false promises. There is nothing like a bit of flag waving via a conflict to unite the people.

[whybother]

I mention this is another post, we have an election coming up, we have a lame government that has not been able to win an election for many years, we have evidence coming out about just who was responsible for the deaths the april/may, we have endless broken promises and false promises. There is nothing like a bit of flag waving via a conflict to unite the people.

How are the Democrats doing "a bit of flag waving"? The PAD are protesting AGAINST the government about this.

[random]

I mention this is another post, we have an election coming up, we have a lame government that has not been able to win an election for many years, we have evidence coming out about just who was responsible for the deaths the april/may, we have endless broken promises and false promises. There is nothing like a bit of flag waving via a conflict to unite the people.

How are the Democrats doing "a bit of flag waving"? The PAD are protesting AGAINST the government about this.

read my post again then get back to me. hopefully by then you will understand it, I have re read it and its very clear to me.

[geriatrickid]

For those of you who are throwing stones for whatever reasons, you probably were not watching the very first telecast in Thai involving the 7 before and during their arrest.

The govt representative was on a hand phone telling someone at the other end that he and the group were on the thai soil surrounded by Thai farmers and their houses.

Which was entirely different from what was posted on the youtube video.

Someone doctored up the video conversation.

And then there was a lady who was not arrested. The reporter asked her why wasn't she arrested too?

She said in Thai that she was on the last vehicle and could not catch up with others.

She stated that the 7 were definitely still on Thai soil when they were arrested for whatever reason.

The villagers living around that areas also stated that the 7 were on their farmland when the Camb soldiers came after the gruop.

The farmers also said that they have ChaNote (warranty deed) issued by Thailand some fifty years back as evidence of their proprietorship, before the Camb setup their houses in their land which they have had launched multiple complaints to the local soldiers who told them not to be trouble makers.

The local farmers also filed written complaints to the center govt but to date never received any response either.

As far as the first initial report of the arrest of the 7 on Thai tele was concerned it definitely showed that the 7 were still on Thai boundary according to the local Thai farmers who live and work there since their birth.

A point of interest was, during the Cabinet meeting chaired by PM Apisit, when a lady reporter questioned SuThep directly as to--Yesterday, why did you say that the 7 was arrested some 3 kilometers inside Camb boundary?

Suthep sheepishly said, I heard the report from my aides incorrectly yesterday.

How interesting and convenient that was, I thought at the time, for a deputy PM to say something that was totally and absolutely fallacious, empowering the Camb govt to go ahead with the prosecution while there was no ground at all and no reason at all for such incident to happen.

On the contrary, if the Thai govt were in any shape and form at all to deal with any international issue, the Thai PM, Apisit, would immediately announce to the world that the Camb encroached Thai soil and arrested Thai MP and his group, thus amounting to declaring war on Thailand....

What actually happens is, a week after the shameless incident, the Thai PM, Apisit and his able deputy SuThep are still practically begging for the Camb to show mercy and to release the 7 at some point to heighten their cooperation and

Thailand will accept whatever the Camb court would ditch out as punishment....

Oh Thailand, my beloved Thailand.... since whence have thou sunk so lowly and so utterly shamelessly....

Your forefathers and mothers would turn over in their graves....

But I still love you, Thailand, and I believe that there are still many good people and good soldiers in Thailand, who will not suffer injustice and unjustified shame to the n^th degree for too long.... I humbly salute you all....

Thank you for this version. I have some questions as there are several inconsistencies;

1.And then there was a lady who was not arrested. The reporter asked her why wasn't she arrested too? She said in Thai that she was on the last vehicle and could not catch up with others.She stated that the 7 were definitely still on Thai soil when they were arrested for whatever reason.

It seems odd that if they came all that way and she was in the party, that the others did not wait 5-10 minutes for her to arrive. Why would they just walk off at a brisk pace and leave her behind? If they were on Thai land when arrested, why was there no Thai border security presence? Why was there a lone Cambodian guard? If it was Thai land, I don't think Cambodia would have stationed that kid there.

2. The govt representative was on a hand phone telling someone at the other end that he and the group were on the thai soil surrounded by Thai farmers and their houses. Which was entirely different from what was posted on the youtube video.

Yes it is very different.

Where are these farmers in the video? Are you suggesting the Cambodians recreated the event or removed all of the farmers from the video? Seems unlikely to me. Why did the Thais walk towards the Cambodian border guard? The Cambodian kid really didn't look like he wanted any trouble. Again, where were the Thai border guards?

I have the distinct impression that the border incursion was intentional. There may indeed be some ethnic Thais in the area, but do these people have the right to vote in Thailand? Did they vote last election? Do they pay taxes to Thailand? Who provides the social services such as schooling and vaccinations? Is it Thailand or Cambodia?

I think the people trying to make this event go away are not going to have much luck. PM Abhisit has a mess on his hands. Lucky for him most people are clueless and have no idea of what is going on.

Edited January 5, 2011 by geriatrickid

[termad]

It's about time that all Thai's recognised and admitted that they deservedly lost the temple and some surrounding land because they invaded two peaceful neighbours (Cambodia and Laos) in 1942 after being equiped by the Japanese with weapons and fighter planes.

France was then under the Vichy government and the only French nationals present in Laos and Cambodia were some 10,000 farmers and other assorted civilians armed with shotguns and the like who obviously stood no chance against a large well equiped Thai army. In 1942 the Thais erected the Victory Monument in Bangkok to celebrate their glorious victory.

Unfortunately, for Thailand Japan was beaten and it was given 24 hours to get out of the seized areas by Mountbatten. Again, unfortunately for the Thailand the team that was appointed to draw the borders after the war were all French cartographers and yes they most probably did make a few sqiggles in the line that they drew as the Cambodian/Thai border (and who could blame them) so Thailand lost the Temple and land and also a few other small areas along the borders.

They have as much chance of getting the Temple back as the Germans have of getting back the German land that Poland took,the Polish land that Russia took or the Japanese islands that Russia took. It's also (I think) only a matter of time before Hun Sen has a cable car for tourists installed at the base of the cliff so he can then, if he wants to, close the Thai entrance to the Temple and the present Thai attitude will hasten that line of thought.,

.......And before all that when the French and British got the land in the first place? Indo China ; French and Malaysia; British. The Japanese campaign was against Western colonisation in favour of there own but reversed the compromises Thailand was forced to make to remain independant, which Mountbatten reversed once again, albeit temporarily after the defeat of Japan. Land borders are a bugger.

Is it a fact that this border defies logic? in that a natural geographical feature makes it unlikely that the temple was on the French side, if not then why would cable car access be needed ?

Because although the the Temple is in Cambodia the entrance to it is in Thailand. In other words if the Cambodians erect a cable car system (which would be a an additional tourist attraction to the Temple itself) they can close the gates on the Thai side and all tourists would have to enter via Cambodia, losing Thailand the money derived from tourists in Thailand travelling to the Temple.

[termad]

It's about time that all Thai's recognised and admitted that they deservedly lost the temple and some surrounding land because they invaded two peaceful neighbours (Cambodia and Laos) in 1942 after being equiped by the Japanese with weapons and fighter planes.

France was then under the Vichy government and the only French nationals present in Laos and Cambodia were some 10,000 farmers and other assorted civilians armed with shotguns and the like who obviously stood no chance against a large well equiped Thai army. In 1942 the Thais erected the Victory Monument in Bangkok to celebrate their glorious victory.

Unfortunately, for Thailand Japan was beaten and it was given 24 hours to get out of the seized areas by Mountbatten. Again, unfortunately for the Thailand the team that was appointed to draw the borders after the war were all French cartographers and yes they most probably did make a few sqiggles in the line that they drew as the Cambodian/Thai border (and who could blame them) so Thailand lost the Temple and land and also a few other small areas along the borders.

They have as much chance of getting the Temple back as the Germans have of getting back the German land that Poland took,the Polish land that Russia took or the Japanese islands that Russia took. It's also (I think) only a matter of time before Hun Sen has a cable car for tourists installed at the base of the cliff so he can then, if he wants to, close the Thai entrance to the Temple and the present Thai attitude will hasten that line of thought.,

It's strange but I have never seen this part of Thai history explained so succinctly in the official school textbook.

Maybe if Thai students actually studied more history instead of flag waving and institutionalised sycophancy, they might learn from mistakes.

However, starting a nationalist conflict/cause has always been a favourite tactic to divert attention from internal problems. - like invading Iraq, invading the Falklands, invading France, etc etc etc

If you want to read up on this just click on Victory Monument Bangkok on your search machine and follow some of the links.

[termad]

I mention this is another post, we have an election coming up, we have a lame government that has not been able to win an election for many years, we have evidence coming out about just who was responsible for the deaths the april/may, we have endless broken promises and false promises. There is nothing like a bit of flag waving via a conflict to unite the people.

How are the Democrats doing "a bit of flag waving"? The PAD are protesting AGAINST the government about this.

Apart from the Foreign Minister how many other members of the Government are Yellow Shirt supporters?

[mkawish]

It's about time that all Thai's recognised and admitted that they deservedly lost the temple and some surrounding land because they invaded two peaceful neighbours (Cambodia and Laos) in 1942 after being equiped by the Japanese with weapons and fighter planes.

France was then under the Vichy government and the only French nationals present in Laos and Cambodia were some 10,000 farmers and other assorted civilians armed with shotguns and the like who obviously stood no chance against a large well equiped Thai army. In 1942 the Thais erected the Victory Monument in Bangkok to celebrate their glorious victory.

Unfortunately, for Thailand Japan was beaten and it was given 24 hours to get out of the seized areas by Mountbatten. Again, unfortunately for the Thailand the team that was appointed to draw the borders after the war were all French cartographers and yes they most probably did make a few sqiggles in the line that they drew as the Cambodian/Thai border (and who could blame them) so Thailand lost the Temple and land and also a few other small areas along the borders.

They have as much chance of getting the Temple back as the Germans have of getting back the German land that Poland took,the Polish land that Russia took or the Japanese islands that Russia took. It's also (I think) only a matter of time before Hun Sen has a cable car for tourists installed at the base of the cliff so he can then, if he wants to, close the Thai entrance to the Temple and the present Thai attitude will hasten that line of thought.,

It's strange but I have never seen this part of Thai history explained so succinctly in the official school textbook.

Maybe if Thai students actually studied more history instead of flag waving and institutionalised sycophancy, they might learn from mistakes.

However, starting a nationalist conflict/cause has always been a favourite tactic to divert attention from internal problems. - like invading Iraq, invading the Falklands, invading France, etc etc etc

GeeWeez

And all this time, I thought....

It was France who terrorized and subsequently colonized Indo China....

You really meant that ....

It was Indo China that invaded France? W O W

Hey, don't get all bended out of shape now, alright?

termad

I disagreed, I would think Thailand would welcome that eventuality to close off the entrance from the Thai territory to the PraVeHarn temple. The current govt is a disgusting shame to Thailand, imho. Even the foot soldiers would know better to never leave their peer behind.... to have almost totally ignored its own PM in the hand of its enemy.... is unforgivable in any language.... shame, shame, shame....

[mkawish]

For those of you who are throwing stones for whatever reasons, you probably were not watching the very first telecast in Thai involving the 7 before and during their arrest.

The govt representative was on a hand phone telling someone at the other end that he and the group were on the thai soil surrounded by Thai farmers and their houses.

Which was entirely different from what was posted on the youtube video.

Someone doctored up the video conversation.

And then there was a lady who was not arrested. The reporter asked her why wasn't she arrested too?

She said in Thai that she was on the last vehicle and could not catch up with others.

She stated that the 7 were definitely still on Thai soil when they were arrested for whatever reason.

The villagers living around that areas also stated that the 7 were on their farmland when the Camb soldiers came after the gruop.

The farmers also said that they have ChaNote (warranty deed) issued by Thailand some fifty years back as evidence of their proprietorship, before the Camb setup their houses in their land which they have had launched multiple complaints to the local soldiers who told them not to be trouble makers.

The local farmers also filed written complaints to the center govt but to date never received any response either.

As far as the first initial report of the arrest of the 7 on Thai tele was concerned it definitely showed that the 7 were still on Thai boundary according to the local Thai farmers who live and work there since their birth.

A point of interest was, during the Cabinet meeting chaired by PM Apisit, when a lady reporter questioned SuThep directly as to--Yesterday, why did you say that the 7 was arrested some 3 kilometers inside Camb boundary?

Suthep sheepishly said, I heard the report from my aides incorrectly yesterday.

How interesting and convenient that was, I thought at the time, for a deputy PM to say something that was totally and absolutely fallacious, empowering the Camb govt to go ahead with the prosecution while there was no ground at all and no reason at all for such incident to happen.

On the contrary, if the Thai govt were in any shape and form at all to deal with any international issue, the Thai PM, Apisit, would immediately announce to the world that the Camb encroached Thai soil and arrested Thai MP and his group, thus amounting to declaring war on Thailand....

What actually happens is, a week after the shameless incident, the Thai PM, Apisit and his able deputy SuThep are still practically begging for the Camb to show mercy and to release the 7 at some point to heighten their cooperation and

Thailand will accept whatever the Camb court would ditch out as punishment....

Oh Thailand, my beloved Thailand.... since whence have thou sunk so lowly and so utterly shamelessly....

Your forefathers and mothers would turn over in their graves....

But I still love you, Thailand, and I believe that there are still many good people and good soldiers in Thailand, who will not suffer injustice and unjustified shame to the n^th degree for too long.... I humbly salute you all....

Thank you for this version. I have some questions as there are several inconsistencies;

1.And then there was a lady who was not arrested. The reporter asked her why wasn't she arrested too? She said in Thai that she was on the last vehicle and could not catch up with others.She stated that the 7 were definitely still on Thai soil when they were arrested for whatever reason.

It seems odd that if they came all that way and she was in the party, that the others did not wait 5-10 minutes for her to arrive. Why would they just walk off at a brisk pace and leave her behind? If they were on Thai land when arrested, why was there no Thai border security presence? Why was there a lone Cambodian guard? If it was Thai land, I don't think Cambodia would have stationed that kid there.

2. The govt representative was on a hand phone telling someone at the other end that he and the group were on the thai soil surrounded by Thai farmers and their houses. Which was entirely different from what was posted on the youtube video.

Yes it is very different.

Where are these farmers in the video? Are you suggesting the Cambodians recreated the event or removed all of the farmers from the video? Seems unlikely to me. Why did the Thais walk towards the Cambodian border guard? The Cambodian kid really didn't look like he wanted any trouble. Again, where were the Thai border guards?

I have the distinct impression that the border incursion was intentional. There may indeed be some ethnic Thais in the area, but do these people have the right to vote in Thailand? Did they vote last election? Do they pay taxes to Thailand? Who provides the social services such as schooling and vaccinations? Is it Thailand or Cambodia?

I think the people trying to make this event go away are not going to have much luck. PM Abhisit has a mess on his hands. Lucky for him most people are clueless and have no idea of what is going on.

my dear respected geriatrickid

The entire video including the presence of villagers should be some 4+ minutes long. The edited and doctored video appearing on YouTube is sniped to 1+ minute leaving out as usual many interesting and interrelated names, faces and backgrounds.

What seems more important is....

This is what is at stake.... hope you'll like the attachment just as much.... get back to me thereafter, if you like.

....While a 2001 MOU between Thailand and Cambodia outlined an agreed framework to settle the maritime dispute, progress has been slow as political tensions between Cambodia and Thailand have remained fragile since 2003 when the Thai embassy and Thai owned businesses were attacked in Cambodia. Subsequent tensions over the disputed border demarcation near the Preah Vihear temple have also meant that substantive talks remain elusive.

While there were periods where relations thawed and talks to resolve the dispute held, the Thai cabinet at the end of 2009 voted to scrap the 2001 MOU. This has added further uncertainty as to how talks may proceed in future....

In 2008, Thai foreign minister Noppadon Pattama was forced to resign after a court ruled he had violated the constitution after the government supported Cambodia's moves to have Preah Vihear World Heritage listed. In the ensuing scandal the entire cabinet was threatened with possible impeachment.

A number of diplomatic and military sources in Thailand have suggested that discussions on the maritime border issue cannot truly begin until some compromises have been reached on the temple issue.

Any talk of settling the maritime disputes generally leads to accusations of 'selling out', especially from the Thai side, where compromises on the Preah Vihear issue are seen as a trade-off for additional economic benefit from the Cambodian's in the OCA.

Revenue sharing

The issue of revenue sharing was a key problem identified by both Thai and Cambodian sources.

Both countries have presented competing proposals in earlier talks. Cambodia proposes dividing the disputed area in a checkerboard fashion, creating at least 14 different blocks. Revenues and management of the blocks would be shared equally on a 50/50 basis.

The main Thai counter-proposal is that the disputed area be divided into three strips running north-south, with the revenue from the central area to be shared equally on a 50/50 basis. The share from the outer areas would be weighted in favour of the country adjacent to that area, approximately 80/20 to Thailand on the western side of the OCA and 80/20 to Cambodia on the eastern side of the OCA..... so on and so forth....

There is definitely a secret deal going on between and among the significant players, Thai-Camb-Oil and Gas companies, unknown to general Thai public....

This entire article is too long and clumsy. It will disinterest and bore many readers, imho.

Edited January 5, 2011 by mkawish

[geriatrickid]

For those of you who are throwing stones for whatever reasons, you probably were not watching the very first telecast in Thai involving the 7 before and during their arrest.

The govt representative was on a hand phone telling someone at the other end that he and the group were on the thai soil surrounded by Thai farmers and their houses.

Which was entirely different from what was posted on the youtube video.

Someone doctored up the video conversation.

And then there was a lady who was not arrested. The reporter asked her why wasn't she arrested too?

She said in Thai that she was on the last vehicle and could not catch up with others.

She stated that the 7 were definitely still on Thai soil when they were arrested for whatever reason.

The villagers living around that areas also stated that the 7 were on their farmland when the Camb soldiers came after the gruop.

The farmers also said that they have ChaNote (warranty deed) issued by Thailand some fifty years back as evidence of their proprietorship, before the Camb setup their houses in their land which they have had launched multiple complaints to the local soldiers who told them not to be trouble makers.

The local farmers also filed written complaints to the center govt but to date never received any response either.

As far as the first initial report of the arrest of the 7 on Thai tele was concerned it definitely showed that the 7 were still on Thai boundary according to the local Thai farmers who live and work there since their birth.

A point of interest was, during the Cabinet meeting chaired by PM Apisit, when a lady reporter questioned SuThep directly as to--Yesterday, why did you say that the 7 was arrested some 3 kilometers inside Camb boundary?

Suthep sheepishly said, I heard the report from my aides incorrectly yesterday.

How interesting and convenient that was, I thought at the time, for a deputy PM to say something that was totally and absolutely fallacious, empowering the Camb govt to go ahead with the prosecution while there was no ground at all and no reason at all for such incident to happen.

On the contrary, if the Thai govt were in any shape and form at all to deal with any international issue, the Thai PM, Apisit, would immediately announce to the world that the Camb encroached Thai soil and arrested Thai MP and his group, thus amounting to declaring war on Thailand....

What actually happens is, a week after the shameless incident, the Thai PM, Apisit and his able deputy SuThep are still practically begging for the Camb to show mercy and to release the 7 at some point to heighten their cooperation and

Thailand will accept whatever the Camb court would ditch out as punishment....

Oh Thailand, my beloved Thailand.... since whence have thou sunk so lowly and so utterly shamelessly....

Your forefathers and mothers would turn over in their graves....

But I still love you, Thailand, and I believe that there are still many good people and good soldiers in Thailand, who will not suffer injustice and unjustified shame to the n^th degree for too long.... I humbly salute you all....

Thank you for this version. I have some questions as there are several inconsistencies;

1.And then there was a lady who was not arrested. The reporter asked her why wasn't she arrested too? She said in Thai that she was on the last vehicle and could not catch up with others.She stated that the 7 were definitely still on Thai soil when they were arrested for whatever reason.

It seems odd that if they came all that way and she was in the party, that the others did not wait 5-10 minutes for her to arrive. Why would they just walk off at a brisk pace and leave her behind? If they were on Thai land when arrested, why was there no Thai border security presence? Why was there a lone Cambodian guard? If it was Thai land, I don't think Cambodia would have stationed that kid there.

2. The govt representative was on a hand phone telling someone at the other end that he and the group were on the thai soil surrounded by Thai farmers and their houses. Which was entirely different from what was posted on the youtube video.

Yes it is very different.

Where are these farmers in the video? Are you suggesting the Cambodians recreated the event or removed all of the farmers from the video? Seems unlikely to me. Why did the Thais walk towards the Cambodian border guard? The Cambodian kid really didn't look like he wanted any trouble. Again, where were the Thai border guards?

I have the distinct impression that the border incursion was intentional. There may indeed be some ethnic Thais in the area, but do these people have the right to vote in Thailand? Did they vote last election? Do they pay taxes to Thailand? Who provides the social services such as schooling and vaccinations? Is it Thailand or Cambodia?

I think the people trying to make this event go away are not going to have much luck. PM Abhisit has a mess on his hands. Lucky for him most people are clueless and have no idea of what is going on.

my dear respected geriatrickid

The entire video including the presence of villagers should be some 4+ minutes long. The edited and doctored video appearing on YouTube is sniped to 1+ minute leaving out as usual many interesting and interrelated names, faces and backgrounds.

What seems more important is....

This is what is at stake.... hope you'll like the attachment just as much.... get back to me thereafter, if you like.

....While a 2001 MOU between Thailand and Cambodia outlined an agreed framework to settle the maritime dispute, progress has been slow as political tensions between Cambodia and Thailand have remained fragile since 2003 when the Thai embassy and Thai owned businesses were attacked in Cambodia. Subsequent tensions over the disputed border demarcation near the Preah Vihear temple have also meant that substantive talks remain elusive.

While there were periods where relations thawed and talks to resolve the dispute held, the Thai cabinet at the end of 2009 voted to scrap the 2001 MOU. This has added further uncertainty as to how talks may proceed in future....

In 2008, Thai foreign minister Noppadon Pattama was forced to resign after a court ruled he had violated the constitution after the government supported Cambodia's moves to have Preah Vihear World Heritage listed. In the ensuing scandal the entire cabinet was threatened with possible impeachment.

A number of diplomatic and military sources in Thailand have suggested that discussions on the maritime border issue cannot truly begin until some compromises have been reached on the temple issue.

Any talk of settling the maritime disputes generally leads to accusations of 'selling out', especially from the Thai side, where compromises on the Preah Vihear issue are seen as a trade-off for additional economic benefit from the Cambodian's in the OCA.

Revenue sharing

The issue of revenue sharing was a key problem identified by both Thai and Cambodian sources.

Both countries have presented competing proposals in earlier talks. Cambodia proposes dividing the disputed area in a checkerboard fashion, creating at least 14 different blocks. Revenues and management of the blocks would be shared equally on a 50/50 basis.

The main Thai counter-proposal is that the disputed area be divided into three strips running north-south, with the revenue from the central area to be shared equally on a 50/50 basis. The share from the outer areas would be weighted in favour of the country adjacent to that area, approximately 80/20 to Thailand on the western side of the OCA and 80/20 to Cambodia on the eastern side of the OCA..... so on and so forth....

There is definitely a secret deal going on between and among the significant players, Thai-Camb-Oil and Gas companies, unknown to general Thai public....

This entire article is too long and clumsy. It will disinterest and bore many readers, imho.

Thank you for the additional information. The version I saw on the telly with Thai commentary was similar to the youtube link. I genuinely do believe that these Thais intentionally crossed the border. Although I appreciate your additional information, it really isn't germane to the current incident. That doesn't mean you don't raise valid points, however, I believe this was a crude provocation.

[CLCAsia]

my dear respected geriatrickid

The entire video including the presence of villagers should be some 4+ minutes long. The edited and doctored video appearing on YouTube is sniped to 1+ minute leaving out as usual many interesting and interrelated names, faces and backgrounds.

What seems more important is....

This is what is at stake.... hope you'll like the attachment just as much.... get back to me thereafter, if you like.

....While a 2001 MOU between Thailand and Cambodia outlined an agreed framework to settle the maritime dispute, progress has been slow as political tensions between Cambodia and Thailand have remained fragile since 2003 when the Thai embassy and Thai owned businesses were attacked in Cambodia. Subsequent tensions over the disputed border demarcation near the Preah Vihear temple have also meant that substantive talks remain elusive.

While there were periods where relations thawed and talks to resolve the dispute held, the Thai cabinet at the end of 2009 voted to scrap the 2001 MOU. This has added further uncertainty as to how talks may proceed in future....

In 2008, Thai foreign minister Noppadon Pattama was forced to resign after a court ruled he had violated the constitution after the government supported Cambodia's moves to have Preah Vihear World Heritage listed. In the ensuing scandal the entire cabinet was threatened with possible impeachment.

A number of diplomatic and military sources in Thailand have suggested that discussions on the maritime border issue cannot truly begin until some compromises have been reached on the temple issue.

Any talk of settling the maritime disputes generally leads to accusations of 'selling out', especially from the Thai side, where compromises on the Preah Vihear issue are seen as a trade-off for additional economic benefit from the Cambodian's in the OCA.

Revenue sharing

The issue of revenue sharing was a key problem identified by both Thai and Cambodian sources.

Both countries have presented competing proposals in earlier talks. Cambodia proposes dividing the disputed area in a checkerboard fashion, creating at least 14 different blocks. Revenues and management of the blocks would be shared equally on a 50/50 basis.

The main Thai counter-proposal is that the disputed area be divided into three strips running north-south, with the revenue from the central area to be shared equally on a 50/50 basis. The share from the outer areas would be weighted in favour of the country adjacent to that area, approximately 80/20 to Thailand on the western side of the OCA and 80/20 to Cambodia on the eastern side of the OCA..... so on and so forth....

There is definitely a secret deal going on between and among the significant players, Thai-Camb-Oil and Gas companies, unknown to general Thai public....

Thank you for the additional information. The version I saw on the telly with Thai commentary was similar to the youtube link. I genuinely do believe that these Thais intentionally crossed the border. Although I appreciate your additional information, it really isn't germane to the current incident. That doesn't mean you don't raise valid points, however, I believe this was a crude provocation.

The original article quoted above, which I authored, can be found at:

http://www.clc-asia.com/analysis/the-struggle-between-thailand-and-cambodia-over-oil-and-gas-resources/

While you are right that the article isn't really related to the current incident, it does delay the eventual 'endgame' which both countries ultimately would like, that is a proper settlement to the maritime border and the shared exploitation of the oil and gas resources which lie beneath.

In terms of 'deals' being done between the two sides - well it is pretty safe to say there are no current deals. When both sides get back to talking about this issue - and that is a long way off - the same isses that are mentioned in my article on revenue sharing will be the sticking points. In my opinion the issue will be settled when there is a greater economic need to do so. At the moment, oil and gas doesn't rate as highly on the radar of Cambodia's political elite, and Thailand can make do with its resources in the Gulf, LNG imports and gas exploration in the north east of the Thailand where there are some small but promising resources.

Regards

Chris Larkin

Managing Director

CLC Asia

www.clc-asia.com

[termad]

For those of you who are throwing stones for whatever reasons, you probably were not watching the very first telecast in Thai involving the 7 before and during their arrest.

The govt representative was on a hand phone telling someone at the other end that he and the group were on the thai soil surrounded by Thai farmers and their houses.

Which was entirely different from what was posted on the youtube video.

Someone doctored up the video conversation.

And then there was a lady who was not arrested. The reporter asked her why wasn't she arrested too?

She said in Thai that she was on the last vehicle and could not catch up with others.

She stated that the 7 were definitely still on Thai soil when they were arrested for whatever reason.

The villagers living around that areas also stated that the 7 were on their farmland when the Camb soldiers came after the gruop.

The farmers also said that they have ChaNote (warranty deed) issued by Thailand some fifty years back as evidence of their proprietorship, before the Camb setup their houses in their land which they have had launched multiple complaints to the local soldiers who told them not to be trouble makers.

The local farmers also filed written complaints to the center govt but to date never received any response either.

As far as the first initial report of the arrest of the 7 on Thai tele was concerned it definitely showed that the 7 were still on Thai boundary according to the local Thai farmers who live and work there since their birth.

A point of interest was, during the Cabinet meeting chaired by PM Apisit, when a lady reporter questioned SuThep directly as to--Yesterday, why did you say that the 7 was arrested some 3 kilometers inside Camb boundary?

Suthep sheepishly said, I heard the report from my aides incorrectly yesterday.

How interesting and convenient that was, I thought at the time, for a deputy PM to say something that was totally and absolutely fallacious, empowering the Camb govt to go ahead with the prosecution while there was no ground at all and no reason at all for such incident to happen.

On the contrary, if the Thai govt were in any shape and form at all to deal with any international issue, the Thai PM, Apisit, would immediately announce to the world that the Camb encroached Thai soil and arrested Thai MP and his group, thus amounting to declaring war on Thailand....

What actually happens is, a week after the shameless incident, the Thai PM, Apisit and his able deputy SuThep are still practically begging for the Camb to show mercy and to release the 7 at some point to heighten their cooperation and

Thailand will accept whatever the Camb court would ditch out as punishment....

Oh Thailand, my beloved Thailand.... since whence have thou sunk so lowly and so utterly shamelessly....

Your forefathers and mothers would turn over in their graves....

But I still love you, Thailand, and I believe that there are still many good people and good soldiers in Thailand, who will not suffer injustice and unjustified shame to the n^th degree for too long.... I humbly salute you all....

Thank you for this version. I have some questions as there are several inconsistencies;

1.And then there was a lady who was not arrested. The reporter asked her why wasn't she arrested too? She said in Thai that she was on the last vehicle and could not catch up with others.She stated that the 7 were definitely still on Thai soil when they were arrested for whatever reason.

It seems odd that if they came all that way and she was in the party, that the others did not wait 5-10 minutes for her to arrive. Why would they just walk off at a brisk pace and leave her behind? If they were on Thai land when arrested, why was there no Thai border security presence? Why was there a lone Cambodian guard? If it was Thai land, I don't think Cambodia would have stationed that kid there.

2. The govt representative was on a hand phone telling someone at the other end that he and the group were on the thai soil surrounded by Thai farmers and their houses. Which was entirely different from what was posted on the youtube video.

Yes it is very different.

Where are these farmers in the video? Are you suggesting the Cambodians recreated the event or removed all of the farmers from the video? Seems unlikely to me. Why did the Thais walk towards the Cambodian border guard? The Cambodian kid really didn't look like he wanted any trouble. Again, where were the Thai border guards?

I have the distinct impression that the border incursion was intentional. There may indeed be some ethnic Thais in the area, but do these people have the right to vote in Thailand? Did they vote last election? Do they pay taxes to Thailand? Who provides the social services such as schooling and vaccinations? Is it Thailand or Cambodia?

I think the people trying to make this event go away are not going to have much luck. PM Abhisit has a mess on his hands. Lucky for him most people are clueless and have no idea of what is going on.

my dear respected geriatrickid

The entire video including the presence of villagers should be some 4+ minutes long. The edited and doctored video appearing on YouTube is sniped to 1+ minute leaving out as usual many interesting and interrelated names, faces and backgrounds.

What seems more important is....

This is what is at stake.... hope you'll like the attachment just as much.... get back to me thereafter, if you like.

....While a 2001 MOU between Thailand and Cambodia outlined an agreed framework to settle the maritime dispute, progress has been slow as political tensions between Cambodia and Thailand have remained fragile since 2003 when the Thai embassy and Thai owned businesses were attacked in Cambodia. Subsequent tensions over the disputed border demarcation near the Preah Vihear temple have also meant that substantive talks remain elusive.

While there were periods where relations thawed and talks to resolve the dispute held, the Thai cabinet at the end of 2009 voted to scrap the 2001 MOU. This has added further uncertainty as to how talks may proceed in future....

In 2008, Thai foreign minister Noppadon Pattama was forced to resign after a court ruled he had violated the constitution after the government supported Cambodia's moves to have Preah Vihear World Heritage listed. In the ensuing scandal the entire cabinet was threatened with possible impeachment.

A number of diplomatic and military sources in Thailand have suggested that discussions on the maritime border issue cannot truly begin until some compromises have been reached on the temple issue.

Any talk of settling the maritime disputes generally leads to accusations of 'selling out', especially from the Thai side, where compromises on the Preah Vihear issue are seen as a trade-off for additional economic benefit from the Cambodian's in the OCA.

Revenue sharing

The issue of revenue sharing was a key problem identified by both Thai and Cambodian sources.

Both countries have presented competing proposals in earlier talks. Cambodia proposes dividing the disputed area in a checkerboard fashion, creating at least 14 different blocks. Revenues and management of the blocks would be shared equally on a 50/50 basis.

The main Thai counter-proposal is that the disputed area be divided into three strips running north-south, with the revenue from the central area to be shared equally on a 50/50 basis. The share from the outer areas would be weighted in favour of the country adjacent to that area, approximately 80/20 to Thailand on the western side of the OCA and 80/20 to Cambodia on the eastern side of the OCA..... so on and so forth....

There is definitely a secret deal going on between and among the significant players, Thai-Camb-Oil and Gas companies, unknown to general Thai public....

This entire article is too long and clumsy. It will disinterest and bore many readers, imho.

Thank you for the additional information. The version I saw on the telly with Thai commentary was similar to the youtube link. I genuinely do believe that these Thais intentionally crossed the border. Although I appreciate your additional information, it really isn't germane to the current incident. That doesn't mean you don't raise valid points, however, I believe this was a crude provocation.

I think that you are quite correct especially (as reported in the other newspaper) the seven drove through a Thai checkpoint and refused to obey commands to stop, at least that's the border guards story. However, when asked why they didn't chase after the seven the border guards said that they suddenly found that none of their motorcycles would work! - it was a planned incursion designed to cause a political row.