Bangkok Van Crash Girl Released Without Bail

[geriatrickid]

ANYBODY with any common sense would have known she was not going to be held if they read the Thai laws regarding the treatment of minors accused of a crime. They were posted her by a mod. Funny thing is they didn't mention anything about wealth or eliteness and simply made clear that Thailand observed the same types of treatment that are internationally accepted when it comes to minors.

And you are being deliberately disingenuous if you fail to realise that her relative wealth and social position will help to get her the most lenient treatment possible - leniency that may well not be given to those not enjoying her privileges.

The case as quoted by Newermonkey is far from rare - my 15 year-old stepson did 6 months for stealing a motorcycle. Are our families not loving and caring enough to provide a safe home? At very least, neither child left a trail of corpses and grieving families.

Ok, so let's look at your specific case, and give an honest answer.

In respect to this adolescent male;

1. What has been his past behaviour, i.e. good student, any truancy, past offenses?

2. What's the home environment like? Is the parent(capable) of managing/controling the boy? Are the parents able to prevent a reoffense? Is the homelife stable?

3. What services are available to the boy to encourage a change in behaviour? Is there a parent available to watch over the fellow?

4. Did the boy express remorse? Did he apologize to the victims? Did he pay restitution? What was the parent(s) attitude?

5. What was the boy's attitude in court? Was he a smart ass?

6. Would a stint in a juvenile detention center have a positive impact on the boy in terms of learning some respect for others?

In respect to the girl, let's look at some of the answers to the above questions;

1. It will most likely be shown that the girl has a spotless record.

2. Most likely an excellent stable home environment with parents that will keep that girl in line, with a mother that packs a mean backhand.

3. The girl will most likely be sent to specialized counseling and have access to therapy if need be.

4. The girls expressed remorse as best that an adolescent kid can do. The mother went the extra distance and was genuinely distraught and begged for forgiveness.

Rrestitution will be paid.

5. The girl hasb't been in court, but I'm willing to bet that she will grovel, cry and be terrified.

6. Highly unlikely a period in detention would achieve anything better than the shredding she's getting at the hands of her parents.

Another fact to keep in mind is that the theft by the boy was a thought out act and the direct consequence was known: A vehicle would be stolen.

The girl most likely was incapable of appreciating her actions. Do adolescents really think through the consequences of speeding. I know I didn't. Did you at that age?

And now a characteristic of young boys and girls that will provoke anger from some; There is a significant difference between male and adolescent non violent offenders. Most girls if they are caught early enough can be corrected easier than boys. Some boys have skulls as thick as a brick and no amount of threats or reasoning works.

I hope Super Mario the mod shows up with his background in social services and offers his work experiences. There are some other TVFers with experience in social work. If I have it wrong, then I'll be corrected, but that's how I see it. It boils down to a fact of life that boys and girls are quite different.

Your questions follow your previous logic, it's all someone else's fault. you have suggested the van driver may be at fault, you list a whole run of reasons why my stepson is an RRs-hole but assume that none of the above applies to this girl, "1. It will most likely be shown that the girl has a spotless record." Well its got a bloody big red spot now, and blood doesn't wash out easily.

Thank you for the implied slurs on my family, but in reality the major differences in the two families is the level of wealth and social position, and the guilt burden from our children's crimes. I feel none - I didn't encourage my child to steal.

There were no intended slurs. I was relaying how the courts and juvenile justice system works. Yes, the girl screwed up. Yes, she has a blot on her record, but if it is an isolated incident, can one really make a prediction based upon that? However, there are significant differences between an incident involving stupidity and poor judgement and an intent to go out an commit crime with an easily identifiable impact. You raised the issue of the difference in treatment between a 15 year old boy and the girl driver in this case. I gave you an explanation. Did you honestly reflect on my points, or did you simply take it as a personal assault? There are differences between the cases, no matter how much you love your stepson.

[dekbahnnok]

Of course she was gonna get off.. her father owns the largest ind. estate in Thailand (Amata nakorn).. oh.. and he's one of the top police in metropolitan Bkk.

What school does she attend? Which disco do her and her friend hang out at? Sounds like the perfect girlfriend although her father could be a problem!

[somtampet]

Of course she was released. Her family is rich and with influencial members. If she were poor then it would be off to the big house with her. Years back a thug from a super rich family in BKK allegedly shot dead a cop infront of 20 witnesses all of whom succumbed to collective amnesia.

As i have said time and time again,the hi-so Bangkok thais are just scum,vermin and parasitic filth

[Nisa]

You mean the same parents that made her an entitled little princess and gave her the keys to a car at 16 ??

Anything in the news to indicate the parents gave her the keys to the car? Actually everything I read says they not know she was driving with a care borrowed from a friend. As for "entitled little princess" comment ... it only seems to show your biased against people who have money and status in society. As has been witnessed by all of us there are kids of all status driving underage in Thailand.

Nisa, I have been reading your posts on this and other threads about this "accident"

and I keep wondering what relation you are to this girl or what personal involvement

you have with her or her family.

Logical thing to wonder considering I am pointing out facts as opposed to many of the posts here that contain information posters have dreamed up to help them vent the rage they have inside them that certainly has nothing to do with this 16 year old girl.

Edit: A perfect example would be the post from "somtampet" above. That is if it is not removed by the mods as so many of the other ignorant and hateful posts have.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Nisa

[dekbahnnok]

Bearing in mind that the car involved in this horrific collision was a Honda. I find the Google ad's attached to this thread (And others) to be in poor taste.

Would the same ad's appear if the subect matter was different?

Christ on a bike..... You have GOT to be kidding? Does it realy matter? Are we to all cast aside any thoughts of Honda whist pondering on the incident? Should Google have placed adverts for the girl in question saying "Its cool to drive underage who cares" I would agree with you but a random, generic Honda advert JUST because the car she was driving was a Honda???

The Honda was a "loaner" she was driving while her BMW was being repaired. What self respecting 'waisaloon' or rich student player would accept a Honda from her rich father!

[dekbahnnok]

Bearing in mind that the car involved in this horrific collision was a Honda. I find the Google ad's attached to this thread (And others) to be in poor taste.

Would the same ad's appear if the subect matter was different?

Christ on a bike..... You have GOT to be kidding? Does it realy matter? Are we to all cast aside any thoughts of Honda whist pondering on the incident? Should Google have placed adverts for the girl in question saying "Its cool to drive underage who cares" I would agree with you but a random, generic Honda advert JUST because the car she was driving was a Honda???

The Honda was a "loaner" she was driving while her BMW was being repaired. What self respecting 'waisaloon' or rich student player would accept a Honda from her rich father!

Ever see Thaksin's son's car from Daddy....a Ferrari...now that is a parental statement!

[cdnvic]

Flames and such have been deleted. Further posts like that can expect to be deleted without further notice.

[ginjag]

Do adolescents really think through the consequences of speeding. I know I didn't. Did you at that age?

How about adults? I doubt any adult considers that their speeding may result in death when the do it. At most they are thinking about getting a ticket and in Thailand you don't have to think too much about that on the tollways. Lets face it, it is a rare adolescent that doesn't believe that all these bad things happen to other people and not them. Many if not most teens having a feeling of invincibility that starts to fade around 18 as the brain goes through changes into adulthood.

Nisa, not long ago the minor, only a young child, 16 ish, cannot have known the outcome of her actions, we should not wish for anything but feel sorry for her, and her family, this is the impression I got from you =apart from all the other walls of defence you threw up. Now "this invincibility starts to fade around 18 as the brain changes to adulthood. Most posters are saying money has got her out of this. Others have not been so lucky-even under 16. the jails are overcrowded with KIDS

I cannot help you with your illogical incomprehension or "impression" of my post(s). As for brain changes at 18; do an internet search or here is a good link to start with http://www.scienceda...60206105011.htm

As for what other posters speculate ... I am not sure what that has to do with anything unless you feel some need to go along with the mob or heard and if so you may want to consider joining the Facebook lynch mob . As for "jails" being overcrowded with "kids" ... please provide a source for this.

Nisa, your the only one with logic, near all the posters are incorrect, thats the impression I get, I dont get involved with "the mob" or joining facebook, I dont read law and reference books, on underage "minors". your obsessed with this kids defence. 18 to me is grown up, try telling an 18 year old she's still a kid/minor/child, she will give you a mouthful. its that you changed gear a little from child to adolesent. 18 is classed as a minor-here ok. but as in some places 18 to vote-18 to fight for your country-drive fast cars-old enough to not to respect your parents, (they didn,t know). 18 to get married, go to university, have a family, work in a bar in Pattaya. The juvenile remand centres/jails are teeming with minors=up to 20/21 years. I do apologise if I have a few things wrong but, I dont have a library here.

[Nisa]

The girl in question is 16 years old ... not yet 17 and certainly not 18.

[ginjag]

The girl in question is 16 years old ... not yet 17 and certainly not 18.

Going back to page 4- hoaker said 18..not 16, sorry if I read it wrong, you or no-one else challenged that. There has been so many alterations to the facts on this INCIDENT,( I like to call it not accident,) that I could have missed something. Minor was used, child, juvenile, kid, girl. Next it will be -young woman.

[MaiDong]

And people wonder why Red Shirts are so tired of the way the ruling elite run this country (into the ground).....

They're only tired because they aren't the ones at the top, dumping on their underlings, don't you know how things work...

[marc11864]

For a brief time I wondered why the Reds were so angry and destructive...

[katana]

Something smells about the ownership of the car issue. The honda was supposedly a loaner while another car was being repaired, which was then lent to the girl, and so far the third party has not been identified.

IMHO this is a scam to obscure actual ownership/responsibility. How many garages/workshops have a near new car as a loaner? To make that economically feasible, what sort of repair rates would they have to charge? Where are the (supposedly free) lease and insurance documents?

So far there is no paperwork link to the "friend," even though his/her vehicle is supposedly at the garage for repair. Want to bet that it turns out to be a valueless clunker with a dodgy book, and the friend disappears?

I was thinking the same.

[MaiDong]

For a brief time I wondered why the Reds were so angry and destructive...

See above post

[OzMick]

There were no intended slurs. I was relaying how the courts and juvenile justice system works. Yes, the girl screwed up. Yes, she has a blot on her record, but if it is an isolated incident, can one really make a prediction based upon that? However, there are significant differences between an incident involving stupidity and poor judgement and an intent to go out an commit crime with an easily identifiable impact. You raised the issue of the difference in treatment between a 15 year old boy and the girl driver in this case. I gave you an explanation. Did you honestly reflect on my points, or did you simply take it as a personal assault? There are differences between the cases, no matter how much you love your stepson.

You were relaying how the court system works, but you won't accept that social status has an influence? What is the difference between 3 boys who find a bike with the keys in it, and a girl who is illegally given a car - which is the more intentional crime? Yes, I read your points, and they gave all the wrong reasons for the difference in sentence, and I pity you if you don't understand that it was insulting. I don't love my stepson, I think he is a spoiled little mongrel who thought he could get away with crap because I have more money than your average thai - in that , he is much like the young lady. But, because he is my stepson, I did what was required to help him. Easily identifiable impact? Someone lost the use of his bike for 24 hours, and then wanted it to look like new when it was returned - do i have to compare that to 9 dead?

What does it take to drum into you that her illegal acts had reasonably for-see-able consequences, which did eventuate, but for which she will ultimately avoid reasonable and comparable punishment because of her family.

Edited January 11, 2011 by OzMick

[TheLaughingMan]

It is nice to see that the police used commen sence and treaded the girl like any other suspect would have been. She doesn't deserve to be punished harder because this case has a lot of media attention.

I suppose I was too harsh in my previous criticism of this post? Ok I'll try again. Mario, You feel the girl who killed 9 people has been punished enough because this story is being read and watched by alot of people in the news? Please clarify......

[TAWP]

A few years ago we were told about a foreigner that drove drunk and on Sukhumvit collided with a bike carrying two young girls. He got off at a price of 10k per girl. Where were you outrage then?

Granted he didn't have a name of bloodlines so no expats now again living back home again nor local proganda-machines saw him as a target...

[steffi]

So where is the journalist who's asking questions about

1. What was the car she had a loaner for?

2. Why was it in the garage?

3. Who owns the garage? If they are of legal age why is their name being kept out of it?

3. Who's name is the card registered in?

etc etc?

A few years ago we were told about a foreigner that drove drunk and on Sukhumvit collided with a bike carrying two young girls. He got off at a price of 10k per girl. Where were you outrage then?

Granted he didn't have a name of bloodlines so no expats now again living back home again nor local proganda-machines saw him as a target...

Edited January 12, 2011 by steffi

[tartempion]

She's a juvenile - her 'get out of jail' card (apparently a large piece of the card, anyway, among other pieces).

Unfortunately, most of the juveniles in jail I happen to know were not in possession of a "get out of jail card"

One night, home country, 20 years young, around 1 am we were stopped by the cops for speeding.

When they saw the ID of the driver, son of a famous lawyer, a "get out of jail card" was given.

Edited January 12, 2011 by tartempion

[LomSak27]

Emster23, on 2011-01-11 12:29, said:

And people wonder why Red Shirts are so tired of the way the ruling elite run this country (into the ground).....

They're only tired because they aren't the ones at the top, dumping on their underlings, don't you know how things work...

The locals where I live have been talking about it for days. A Dem/PAD supporter I know stated 'this is what fuels the Reds'. PM Abhisit does not have to do a thing, but he needs to appear to outraged, to be doing something.

[NCFC]

ANYBODY with any common sense would have known she was not going to be held if they read the Thai laws regarding the treatment of minors accused of a crime. They were posted her by a mod. Funny thing is they didn't mention anything about wealth or eliteness and simply made clear that Thailand observed the same types of treatment that are internationally accepted when it comes to minors.

And you are being deliberately disingenuous if you fail to realise that her relative wealth and social position will help to get her the most lenient treatment possible - leniency that may well not be given to those not enjoying her privileges.

The case as quoted by Newermonkey is far from rare - my 15 year-old stepson did 6 months for stealing a motorcycle. Are our families not loving and caring enough to provide a safe home? At very least, neither child left a trail of corpses and grieving families.

Ok, so let's look at your specific case, and give an honest answer.

In respect to this adolescent male;

1. What has been his past behaviour, i.e. good student, any truancy, past offenses?

2. What's the home environment like? Is the parent(capable) of managing/controling the boy? Are the parents able to prevent a reoffense? Is the homelife stable?

3. What services are available to the boy to encourage a change in behaviour? Is there a parent available to watch over the fellow?

4. Did the boy express remorse? Did he apologize to the victims? Did he pay restitution? What was the parent(s) attitude?

5. What was the boy's attitude in court? Was he a smart ass?

6. Would a stint in a juvenile detention center have a positive impact on the boy in terms of learning some respect for others?

In respect to the girl, let's look at some of the answers to the above questions;

1. It will most likely be shown that the girl has a spotless record.

2. Most likely an excellent stable home environment with parents that will keep that girl in line, with a mother that packs a mean backhand.

3. The girl will most likely be sent to specialized counseling and have access to therapy if need be.

4. The girls expressed remorse as best that an adolescent kid can do. The mother went the extra distance and was genuinely distraught and begged for forgiveness.

Rrestitution will be paid.

5. The girl hasb't been in court, but I'm willing to bet that she will grovel, cry and be terrified.

6. Highly unlikely a period in detention would achieve anything better than the shredding she's getting at the hands of her parents.

Another fact to keep in mind is that the theft by the boy was a thought out act and the direct consequence was known: A vehicle would be stolen.

The girl most likely was incapable of appreciating her actions. Do adolescents really think through the consequences of speeding. I know I didn't. Did you at that age?

And now a characteristic of young boys and girls that will provoke anger from some; There is a significant difference between male and adolescent non violent offenders. Most girls if they are caught early enough can be corrected easier than boys. Some boys have skulls as thick as a brick and no amount of threats or reasoning works.

I hope Super Mario the mod shows up with his background in social services and offers his work experiences. There are some other TVFers with experience in social work. If I have it wrong, then I'll be corrected, but that's how I see it. It boils down to a fact of life that boys and girls are quite different.

But I think you have missed out on the most important point relevant to this case:

7. Will a severe punishment send out a signal to others who might commit a similar crime in the future?

Isn't this at the core of why everybody is getting so hot under the collar at this incident - that they believe a hiso can be above the law? I;m not arguing the case either for or against a harsh punishment to whomever is found ultimately responsible, but I'm just saying that one of a court's considerations is whether a punishment may or may not have the effect of discouraging others from doing the same. That is the most important issue, in this case, is it not?

[Thai at Heart]

I can't help feeling that despite Thailand apparently having a system modelled on the Western democracies, the one thing it lacks is trial by jury.

Maybe that will be the next step in trying to even up the playing field to make the criminal justice system become more even handed.

[Nisa]

The girl in question is 16 years old ... not yet 17 and certainly not 18.

Going back to page 4- hoaker said 18..not 16, sorry if I read it wrong, you or no-one else challenged that. There has been so many alterations to the facts on this INCIDENT,( I like to call it not accident,) that I could have missed something. Minor was used, child, juvenile, kid, girl. Next it will be -young woman.

News reports have NEVER stated the girl as 18. You may want to consider not selectively believing things you read by posters here. The only time her age came into question in the press is when the young girl stated she was 17 but then it was later explained this is typical because she will be 17 later this year but that the law goes by actual birth date and not just the year. There are just way to many posters who inject fantasy as fact based on no credible information and these have included everything from her making twitter posts, who her father is, the 16-year olds injuries & medical condition, her age, the ownership of the car, the the 16-year olds state of mind, her mothers intentions, the family's wealth, the father's job, the sentencing of this girl (which has happened yet), pay offs ... and on and on.

It is clear that a number of people are choosing to believe untrue things because of their bias and hatred towards all those with power, money or status while other just seem to be incapable of getting of the hate train they get on when they mistakenly believed the stuff coming out from the online lynch mob that formed after this accident before ANY real facts were in.

To date, I have seen nothing to indicate this case has been handled any differently than it would be for any minor involved in the same circumstances where the minor suspect has taken responsibility, doesn't posses a future danger, the actions had no malice, compensation is being offered and the minor has what appears to have a responsible family to take responsibility for her before trial / sentencing.

The police have charged the girl with the deaths and there is nothing to indicate they have done anything to show favoritism towards this 16-year old girl because of the last name she was born to or because of the riches the family may or may not have. The police were not responsible for this girl's not being held before trial but it was the juvi authorities who determined under law that there was no reason to hold the girl. They followed the law as it relates to minors where punishment and incarceration are not the objectives but rather safety and education. Since it appears the girl poses no risk, is not in need of mental help from the state there simply is no reason to hold her prior to any conviction. To add to this, the girl and her family have appeared to do everything a remorseful and responsible family could do to this point but yet people still want to pretend conspiracies abound.

From what we know now she borrowed the car from a friend and that friend got the car from the owner of a garage who lent it to her/him while his/her car was in the shop. It would be nice if we had more information about this but police have said they are investigating this. It may turn out there is something more here but that is simply pure speculation at this point. If the person who lent her the car told the police she thought the 16-year old was older and licensed then maybe that gives this person a pass. Even if the person didn't, I suspect the charge would not be too harsh given that driving w/o a license only carries a 400 baht fine.

In reality, what we have seen happen in the case is that this 16-year old has faced more than a typical 16-year old would face in this situation. Her name has been published (illegally) and likely released by the police (illegally). She and her family have received numerous threats, have had at least one person break into her hospital room and have seen all sorts of lies being spread globally about this girl including that after the accident she immediately found it funny people died and tweeted about it. Had the media and/or police followed the law, her name would not have been released and like other minors would not need to have their mistakes as a youth follow them into adulthood in terms of being labeled by others forever.

The facts are (as we know them) is that this girl broke minor Thai laws (speeding & no license) but it resulted in horrific consequences. She needs to be held accountable per the law, as they relate to her being a minor, and to date we have seen authorities do just that beyond the release of her name. It is just illogical to believe this girl had any intent to harm anybody by her actions and there is simply no reason at all to believe she or her family are evil.

None of us here are the victims of the accident or their immediate family and have no right to speak for them or pretend we know what they want when it comes to "justice" for this 16-year old. However, based on knowledge of Thais, I suspect they don't wish the girl to be incarcerated but would feel much better about seeing their own family improved financially as a way to honor their lost family member and believe something good came from their death in terms of helping the family ... as is such a strong and respected belief here.

[Nisa]

I can't help feeling that despite Thailand apparently having a system modelled on the Western democracies, the one thing it lacks is trial by jury.

Maybe that will be the next step in trying to even up the playing field to make the criminal justice system become more even handed.

Agree ... kind of. A trial by jury and one's peers is obviously the way to go for a fair trial BUT the problem is that in places like America the law has become so complex that you must have a lawyer interpret it. I suspect it is the same here. Even the constitution makes statements that appear to be clear to the average person but instead of changing these rights to fit modern times the lawyers & courts have put all sorts new meanings, exclusions and extensions to these laws. My point is that an average jury member can easily be manipulated by fancy lawyers. In addition, juries (in the US) are not allowed to consider punishment which takes greatly away from the human element of having your peers judge you. An example would be that somebody is charged with a crime that carries a minimum 10-years in prison and the jury must decide innocent or guilt and no in between. They may feel that the person did indeed break the law but no to the extent of a 10-year punishment (maybe only 6-months) but they cannot consider and are often unaware of the maximum punishment. Many times you here juries after sentencing shocked at the sentence and stating they would not have voted guilty if they had known what the sentence would be. Having a jury decide guilt but not punishment in many ways is not at all being judged by your peers.

I guess my point is that a jury system does seem like the best approach but it is far from a perfect system. In the US we also have a supreme court that makes rulings and interpretations on the laws which is all a jury can consider ... did the person beyond a reasonable belief break the law. And even after the jury we have panels of judges lawyers can go to to have the jury verdict thrown out. So, again it all comes back to lawyers (who become judges) being the ones who decide the law and being the ones who are able to understand it.

Edit: And even in the case, not sure a jury system would work since the laws regarding minors are usually not based on innocence or guilt and they are not entitled to a jury trial .... at least in the states I am aware of in the US.

Edited January 12, 2011 by Nisa

[ginjag]

The girl in question is 16 years old ... not yet 17 and certainly not 18.

Going back to page 4- hoaker said 18..not 16, sorry if I read it wrong, you or no-one else challenged that. There has been so many alterations to the facts on this INCIDENT,( I like to call it not accident,) that I could have missed something. Minor was used, child, juvenile, kid, girl. Next it will be -young woman.

News reports have NEVER stated the girl as 18. You may want to consider not selectively believing things you read by posters here. The only time her age came into question in the press is when the young girl stated she was 17 but then it was later explained this is typical because she will be 17 later this year but that the law goes by actual birth date and not just the year. There are just way to many posters who inject fantasy as fact based on no credible information and these have included everything from her making twitter posts, who her father is, the 16-year olds injuries & medical condition, her age, the ownership of the car, the the 16-year olds state of mind, her mothers intentions, the family's wealth, the father's job, the sentencing of this girl (which has happened yet), pay offs ... and on and on.

It is clear that a number of people are choosing to believe untrue things because of their bias and hatred towards all those with power, money or status while other just seem to be incapable of getting of the hate train they get on when they mistakenly believed the stuff coming out from the online lynch mob that formed after this accident before ANY real facts were in.

To date, I have seen nothing to indicate this case has been handled any differently than it would be for any minor involved in the same circumstances where the minor suspect has taken responsibility, doesn't posses a future danger, the actions had no malice, compensation is being offered and the minor has what appears to have a responsible family to take responsibility for her before trial / sentencing.

The police have charged the girl with the deaths and there is nothing to indicate they have done anything to show favoritism towards this 16-year old girl because of the last name she was born to or because of the riches the family may or may not have. The police were not responsible for this girl's not being held before trial but it was the juvi authorities who determined under law that there was no reason to hold the girl. They followed the law as it relates to minors where punishment and incarceration are not the objectives but rather safety and education. Since it appears the girl poses no risk, is not in need of mental help from the state there simply is no reason to hold her prior to any conviction. To add to this, the girl and her family have appeared to do everything a remorseful and responsible family could do to this point but yet people still want to pretend conspiracies abound.

From what we know now she borrowed the car from a friend and that friend got the car from the owner of a garage who lent it to her/him while his/her car was in the shop. It would be nice if we had more information about this but police have said they are investigating this. It may turn out there is something more here but that is simply pure speculation at this point. If the person who lent her the car told the police she thought the 16-year old was older and licensed then maybe that gives this person a pass. Even if the person didn't, I suspect the charge would not be too harsh given that driving w/o a license only carries a 400 baht fine.

In reality, what we have seen happen in the case is that this 16-year old has faced more than a typical 16-year old would face in this situation. Her name has been published (illegally) and likely released by the police (illegally). She and her family have received numerous threats, have had at least one person break into her hospital room and have seen all sorts of lies being spread globally about this girl including that after the accident she immediately found it funny people died and tweeted about it. Had the media and/or police followed the law, her name would not have been released and like other minors would not need to have their mistakes as a youth follow them into adulthood in terms of being labeled by others forever.

The facts are (as we know them) is that this girl broke minor Thai laws (speeding & no license) but it resulted in horrific consequences. She needs to be held accountable per the law, as they relate to her being a minor, and to date we have seen authorities do just that beyond the release of her name. It is just illogical to believe this girl had any intent to harm anybody by her actions and there is simply no reason at all to believe she or her family are evil.

None of us here are the victims of the accident or their immediate family and have no right to speak for them or pretend we know what they want when it comes to "justice" for this 16-year old. However, based on knowledge of Thais, I suspect they don't wish the girl to be incarcerated but would feel much better about seeing their own family improved financially as a way to honor their lost family member and believe something good came from their death in terms of helping the family ... as is such a strong and respected belief here.

Here we go again-madam defense councel.You still and always believe posters think she/her family are evil, was you at the scene, your the only one who seems to know everything about it. Most of all your the one who's keeps referring to the words like incarcerated,evil,hang em high, you are the one that stated Thais will be quite happy with the money.B/S-- So you think there is no favouritism here. Take your blindfolds off. Would you seriously be honored by someone giving YOU money to improve your finances, if your academic son (example) got plowed up by some minor as you put it. if so the money erases the death/ or softens it....Will you please step back a little and have some feeling for the dead. I am not evil, I don't belong to the hang em high brigade, but I have feelings, on both sides. This passion for her defence is unreal. Most of your posts are legally correct, your feeling for the other side don.t shine very well--ref to the happy to be paid to help finances.

[Nisa]

But I think you have missed out on the most important point relevant to this case:

7. Will a severe punishment send out a signal to others who might commit a similar crime in the future?

Isn't this at the core of why everybody is getting so hot under the collar at this incident - that they believe a hiso can be above the law? I;m not arguing the case either for or against a harsh punishment to whomever is found ultimately responsible, but I'm just saying that one of a court's considerations is whether a punishment may or may not have the effect of discouraging others from doing the same. That is the most important issue, in this case, is it not?

I could be wrong but I don't believe this is a allowed to be considered in a juvenile hearing. Remember in a typical juvenile hearing the identity of the minor is protected and not sure about here but for this reason the press isn't allowed to be part of the hearing.

[Nisa]

The girl in question is 16 years old ... not yet 17 and certainly not 18.

Going back to page 4- hoaker said 18..not 16, sorry if I read it wrong, you or no-one else challenged that. There has been so many alterations to the facts on this INCIDENT,( I like to call it not accident,) that I could have missed something. Minor was used, child, juvenile, kid, girl. Next it will be -young woman.

EDIT: removed due to length ... original post above

Here we go again-madam defense councel.You still and always believe posters think she/her family are evil, was you at the scene, your the only one who seems to know everything about it. Most of all your the one who's keeps referring to the words like incarcerated,evil,hang em high, you are the one that stated Thais will be quite happy with the money.B/S-- So you think there is no favouritism here. Take your blindfolds off. Would you seriously be honored by someone giving YOU money to improve your finances, if your academic son (example) got plowed up by some minor as you put it. if so the money erases the death/ or softens it....Will you please step back a little and have some feeling for the dead. I am not evil, I don't belong to the hang em high brigade, but I have feelings, on both sides. This passion for her defence is unreal. Most of your posts are legally correct, your feeling for the other side don.t shine very well--ref to the happy to be paid to help finances.

Please show me anywhere in my post I have said something to indicate your accusations of my thoughts or feelings.

As to your question of what would satisfy me ... that is irrelevant since I am not a family member of the dead and as I made clear their wishes should try to be honored not us outside observers. The majority of the families of those who died have met with the family and 16-year old and have accepted the token compensation being offered by the family. I have not heard one screaming for incarceration or harsh punishment for this girl or her family but if they do, I will support their feelings as what helps them better deal with their grief is what is important ... not what a bunch of westerners believe is justice.

Edit: re: "madam defense councel." ... one shouldn't make assumptions based on a cartoon avatar (I haven't assumed you are a nobody for lack of one). A lot of the people here seem to want to believe things that are simply not true or have no credible basis to believe and I have largely tried to point out these facts much to the the anger of people determined to find ways to escape reality to support their beliefs and rage.

Edited January 12, 2011 by Nisa

[Mario2008]

It is nice to see that the police used commen sence and treaded the girl like any other suspect would have been. She doesn't deserve to be punished harder because this case has a lot of media attention.

I suppose I was too harsh in my previous criticism of this post? Ok I'll try again. Mario, You feel the girl who killed 9 people has been punished enough because this story is being read and watched by alot of people in the news? Please clarify......

That is a clear misrepresentation of what I said. I said she doesn't need to be punished harder because of all the attention.

I'm saying she deserves justice and not "justice" by a mob with disregard of the law that wants to hang her high without a trail.

Also, as in most western countries, the main aim of the juvenile criminal justice system is not to punish but to correct the behavior to help them become a decent member of society. Many youths make mistakes, sometimes even serious ones, but become model citizens in later live. Especially after becoming 21-23 they settle down.

I wonder if the accident wasn't caused by a 16 year old girl if the outrage would have been just as high.

[Mario2008]

But I think you have missed out on the most important point relevant to this case:

7. Will a severe punishment send out a signal to others who might commit a similar crime in the future?

Isn't this at the core of why everybody is getting so hot under the collar at this incident - that they believe a hiso can be above the law? I;m not arguing the case either for or against a harsh punishment to whomever is found ultimately responsible, but I'm just saying that one of a court's considerations is whether a punishment may or may not have the effect of discouraging others from doing the same. That is the most important issue, in this case, is it not?

The deterrent from (stiff) punishment is minor. When people commit a crime, they do that because they think they will not get caught. The best deterrent for crime is a very high chance of getting caught. And in this case the problem is that in Thai society it seems to be OK to drive without a license. When caught you just give 100 or 200 baht and are on your way again. That is what needs to be fixing.

[random]

A simple question to all of you people defending this reprobate.

If your child/loved one was killed as a result of this accident would you be happy with a pay off or would you want justice to be done, and the reprobate responsible put behind bars?