Two Thai Detainees Face Additional Charge In Cambodia

[Credo]

It seems reasonable that Panich gets bails.  First, he's been cooperative with the court.  Second, he's pretty high profile and not too hard to keep track of, if they decide to keep track of him.  Finally, there's political wrangling going on, then they have the culpable person, Veera.  For both countries it's a good move.  Cambodia appears fair.  Thailand has a slight concession.  

I am betting that Panich had a good interpreter.  

[rubl]

Lets see if these two hang around long enough to face trial. If it was that easy to get into Cambodia, I am sure there are plenty of ways out. I would presume they are under some kind of house arrest, otherwise, couldn't they just hi-tail it to the Thai embassy?

Granting bail to people who have every desire and probable means to abscond seems to be a very common occurrence in this part of the world. I wonder if Panich can suddenly find a passion for a sporting event somewhere in the world and ask if the Cambodians will let him go see it.

I assume these two freed on bail with condition to remain in Cambodia gave their word of honour. Other conditions may apply (where to stay, where to report frequently, etc.)

To assume they have the desire to abscond is a speculation. Also keep in mind Thai mostly abscond to Cambodia to avoid trials or jail, not visa versa

[Thai at Heart]

Lets see if these two hang around long enough to face trial. If it was that easy to get into Cambodia, I am sure there are plenty of ways out. I would presume they are under some kind of house arrest, otherwise, couldn't they just hi-tail it to the Thai embassy?

Granting bail to people who have every desire and probable means to abscond seems to be a very common occurrence in this part of the world. I wonder if Panich can suddenly find a passion for a sporting event somewhere in the world and ask if the Cambodians will let him go see it.

I assume these two freed on bail with condition to remain in Cambodia gave their word of honour. Other conditions may apply (where to stay, where to report frequently, etc.)

To assume they have the desire to abscond is a speculation. Also keep in mind Thai mostly abscond to Cambodia to avoid trials or jail, not visa versa

Of course believing that they might abscond is speculation. I doubt they would announce it to the court or press before they absconded. If it was me, the thought of running the risk of going to jail in Cambodia, or running back home across the border. Hmmmmmm......... Tough choice.

As I said, presumably they will have to front up to check where they are, that is of course, until they aren't there any more.

Well, as you admit, the path between Thailand and Cambodia for long term residency away from Thailand is a well worn path.

I don't think "word of honour" is applicable in court.

"Do you promise not to run away? Yes, m'lord".

Maybe Scouts honour would count in this sitation. It might have helped with their map reading skills too.

[Credo]

I think the court has reasonable assurances that they abscond.  If they do try and leave, and they may be limited to staying in PP, they risk a lengthy stay in jail.  PP is not close to the border and the risk of getting caught is high--they are foreigners after all.  

I would very roughly compare Panich situation regarding bail with Assange in the UK.  

[rubl]

Of course believing that they might abscond is speculation. I doubt they would announce it to the court or press before they absconded. If it was me, the thought of running the risk of going to jail in Cambodia, or running back home across the border. Hmmmmmm......... Tough choice.

As I said, presumably they will have to front up to check where they are, that is of course, until they aren't there any more.

Well, as you admit, the path between Thailand and Cambodia for long term residency away from Thailand is a well worn path.

I don't think "word of honour" is applicable in court.

"Do you promise not to run away? Yes, m'lord".

Maybe Scouts honour would count in this sitation. It might have helped with their map reading skills too.

With five out of seven still in jail awaiting further trial there, I don't think this type of speculation is appropriate or even useful. Would you leave your friends behind in such a case ?

As for 'word of honour', I consider 'signature under statement' to be of the same nature.

[Buchholz]

I would very roughly compare Panich situation regarding bail with Assange in the UK.

Yes, very nearly identical all the way down the line...

Panich

Bail: $250

Charges: Trespassing

Assange

Bail: $378,000

Charges: Rape, sexual molestation and illegal use of force

.

Edited January 13, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Two Cambodians set free after Thai court gives them 2-year suspended jail term for illegally trespass on Thailand

http://www.mcot.net/cfcustom/cache_page/155518.html

[Credo]

My point isn't a comparison of their legal status it is ONLY about the conditions related to giving them bail. You have two relatively high profile people. Both have about the same 'risk' of flight and both probably could enlist knowledgeable people to enable escape.

The UK giving Assange bail probably runs about the same risk as Cambodia giving Panich bail.

[Buchholz]

The other three Thais, not charged with espionage, are expected to be released on bail today according to a report in the other paper.

[webfact]

Cambodian Court Denies Bail for 5 Thais

The Cambodian court has denied bail for the five remaining Thais being held by Cambodian authorities. The Foreign Ministry reveals that they will submit appeals immediately.

-- Tan Network 2011-01-14

[webfact]

THAI-KHMER RELATIONS

No bail for remaining five Thais

By The Nation

A Cambodian court on Friday refused to free on bail five Thais remaining in a Phnom Penh on immigration charges.

There is high expectation this morning the court will grant bail to some Thais after two of them were freed on bail on Thursday. The two were Democrat MP Panich Vikitsreth and Naruemol Chitwaratana of the People's Network Against Corruption and Santi Asoke network.

Thai Foreign Ministry's spokesman Thani Thongpakdi told reporters that the five's lawyers have already submitted an appeal against the refusal. The Court is expected to rule next week.

Meanwhile Thai prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva told reporters that he is already informed of the latest development. "I already assign Thai embassy and legal team to take care of the matter. They will try their best to help the Thais," said Abhisit.

Among the suspects remaining in jail is Veera Somkwamkit, leader of Thailand Patriots Network, a splinter group of yellow shirts; People's Alliance for Democracy.

Panich and Naruemol was freed on the conditions that they must not leave the country, give 1 million Cambodian riels (about Bt10,000) each as bail bond and must be ready to appear at court upon receiving a summons.

Veera and his secretary are facing charge of spying, in additional of illegal entry as Cambodia is not happy with Veera who was last year arrested in Cambodia on the same charge.

Meanwhile Thai Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya said he would raise the issue with his Khmer counterpart Hor Nam Hong when they meet in an Asean meeting in Indonesia this weekend.

Kasit said Thai embassy in Phnom Penh and the defense lawyers are seeking to help the other five detainees as fast as possible, adding Panich and Naruemol are now staying at the embassy, and their families will visit them there.

"The foreign ministry is doing its best to help the seven Thais without giving priority to any particular person among them," Kasit said, following criticism over the release of the Democrat MP.

The ministry has used various channels to coordinate the issue since the first day, both informally and formally, stated the minister, adding that any action which will improve the situation will be done, such as the release of Cambodians detained by the Thai Immigration Office.

-- The Nation 2011-01-14

[webfact]

Cambodian court rejects bail bids for five Thais detained in Phnom Penh

BANGKOK, Jan 14 -- The Cambodian court on Friday rejected bail bids for five Thais detained in Phnom Penh after granting bail for two of them Thursday, including Democrat lawmaker Panich Vikitsreth, MP for Bangkok, according to Foreign Ministry Information Department of Information Director General Thani Thongphakdi.

Mr Thani said the ministry was informed by the Thai embassy in Phnom Penh that the court has denied bail bids without giving any reason and the legal team for the Thai detainees immediately resubmitted the request and the results is expected to be known by next week as court normally takes five days for consideration.

The bail request had earlier submitted to the court on Monday.

Mr Thani also said that Cambodia's Interior Ministry had agreed in principle to allow an adviser to the Thai Partiots Network, former senator Karun Sai-ngam, and a legal team from the network, to visit the five detained Thais at Phnom Penh's Prey Sar Prison.

The time and date of the visit would be set later, he said.

The network team and the legal team have not met as the Cambodian lawyers were not ready to meet, Mr Thani said, adding that if the network legal team wanted to join the Cambodian lawyers to help the Thais, they must receive approval from the Cambodian Lawyers Council.

The director general said Mr Panich and Ms Naruemol Chitwaratana of the People’s Network Against Corruption and Santi Asoke networks who were granted bail Thursday were still staying at the Thai embassy in Phnom Penh but if the they wanted to stay elsewhere it was possible as the court only barred them from leaving Cambodia.

The seven were arrested Dec 29 by the Cambodian authorities for illegal entry into in Banteay Meanchey province.

The detainees face two initial charges -- illegal entry into the Cambodian kingdom, with possible punishment of three to six months jail and deportation, and also trespass into a Cambodian military zone, punishable by three to six months jail and Bt7,500-15,000 in fines.

Veera Somkwamkid, leader of the Thai Patriots Network, and his secretary Ratree Pipattanapaiboon, however, face additional spying charges on top of illegal entry and trespassing into a Cambodian military area, which has been already heard.

The government prosecutor alleged that they had gathered security information that could pose a severe threat to Cambodian security.

In a related development, Chaiwat Sinsuwong, leader of the Thailand Patriots Network, said on Friday that the group decided not to rally at Thai-Cambodian border in Aranyaprathet district, Sa Kaeo province as earlier planned, explaining that the network still waits and see reaction of local residents whether or not they will cooperate with the group in investigating and inspecting illegal business activities on the border.

He said that local residents had already provided information on illegal business3w to the network during the previous meeting in the area.

Meanwhile, Mr Chaiwat also said that a legal team from the Thailand Patriots Network led by Karun met with Mr Veera.

The group also threatened to mobilise supporters at the Ministry of Defence, aiming to oust Defence Minister Gen Prawit Wongsuwan whom they accused of acknowledging that the seven were on Cambodian territory when arrested. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-01-14

[webfact]

Deputy PM Denies Prisoner Swap Deal to Bail Release of Two Thais

The deputy prime minister in charge of national security has denied that the bail release of MP Panich Vikitsreth and Narumol Chitvarattana was brought about by a prisoner-swap deal.

Deputy Prime Minister in Charge of National Security, Suthep Thaugsuban, has denied that the bail release of MP Panich Vikitsreth and Narumol Chitvarattana was the result of yesterday's release of a number of Cambodian prisoners in Thailand.

Suthep claimed it is merely a coincidence that the legal process for the Cambodians was completed during this time, leading some people to believe it was related to the bail release of the two Thais.

The deputy prime minister also said it's expected that both Panich and Narumol will be prohibited from leaving Cambodia, citing that the Thai court has ordered the same thing for red-shirt leader Veera Musikapong.

Suthep also said the bail release of the two Thais is a good sign, especially for the remaining five Thai citizens who are still in the Cambodian prison.

He denied having talked with Panich after his release and said the status of the Bangkok MP has not yet been discussed within the Democrat Party.

When asked about the protest conducted by the Thai Patriots Network at the Government House and the Foreign Ministry, Suthep responded that the protesters have the right to hold demonstrations, but must act within the law.

Meanwhile, it is a responsibility of the police to ensure that traffic in the protest areas is not affected.

The deputy prime minister also discounted the Network's plan to hold a rally near the Cambodia border, saying no one can pressure the government into closing the border, and most Thai people are still satisfied with the administration's way of helping the detained Thais.

-- Tan Network 2011-01-14

[gatorsoft]

I would very roughly compare Panich situation regarding bail with Assange in the UK.

Yes, very nearly identical all the way down the line...

Panich

Bail: $250

Charges: Trespassing

Assange

Bail: $378,000

Charges: Rape, sexual molestation and illegal use of force

.

Buchholz:

Although we clearly have different opinions and are on different sides of the issue, I must give credit where credit is due. Your arguments are thoughful and well crafted, with a nice touch of sarcasm. It is enjoyable to verbally joust with you. I certainly cannot accuse you of simply stating your opinions without any logical backup.

Good job to keep a spirited and thoughful discussion going!

Gatorsoft

[Buchholz]

I would very roughly compare Panich situation regarding bail with Assange in the UK.

Yes, very nearly identical all the way down the line...

Panich

Bail: $250

Charges: Trespassing

Assange

Bail: $378,000

Charges: Rape, sexual molestation and illegal use of force

.

Buchholz:

Although we clearly have different opinions and are on different sides of the issue, I must give credit where credit is due. Your arguments are thoughful and well crafted, with a nice touch of sarcasm. It is enjoyable to verbally joust with you. I certainly cannot accuse you of simply stating your opinions without any logical backup.

Good job to keep a spirited and thoughful discussion going!

Gatorsoft

Likewise.

Personally, it's refreshing, and unfortunately all too rare on this forum, that we can do so without flames and name-calling or re-writing of actual past events.

Getting over those two hurdles always seems so difficult.

[Buchholz]

The other one charged with espionage, however, has potential for being a super covert spy....

Look, here she's got a camera!! She must be filming the inner workings of a secret air base hidden somewhere in the E.U. as a warm-up exercise for her black ops in Cambodia. She's also wearing black to help conceal her disallowed presence.

They let this "spy" free and all the other tresspassers, but are holding on to Veera...

Cambodian court frees on bail more Thais

A Cambodian Court on Tuesday freed on bail four of five remaining Thai detainees who are charged with trespassing into Cambodian soil late last year.

Court denied bail request for Veera Somkwamkit, leader of Thai Patriots Network, who is also accused of spying.

The four were Samdin Lertbutr, Tainae Mungmajon, Kitponthorn Chusnasevee and Ratree Pitpattanapaibul. Ratree is also accused of spying.

The decision left Veera who was charged with trespassing last year remain in jail.

Veera told reporters before the trial that the accusations were groundless as he was on the Thai soil when he was arrested on December 29 last year.

Democrat MP Panich Vikitsreth and Naruemon Jitrawarattana were the first two Thais granted the bail. The conditions were that they remained in Cambodia and were ready to report to authorities when summoned.

-- The Nation 2011-11-18

[Buchholz]

Cambodian Court to Hand Down Verdict on 7 Thais Feb 1

It has been announced that the Cambodian court will hand down its verdict on charges brought against seven Thai nationals arrested along the Thai-Cambodian border on February 1.

The Thai Foreign Minister is set to hold a press conference on the issue today at 2 P.M.

-- Tan Network 2011-01-19

[Buchholz]

Feb 1 Set for Cambodian Court's Verdict on 7 Thais' Case

The Cambodian court has scheduled 7.30 A.M. on February 1 to deliver its ruling on the case against seven Thais arrested for alleged border trespassing.

The Thai ambassador to Phnom Penh has confirmed that the Cambodian court will deliver its verdict on the case against the seven Thais on February 1 at 7.30 A.M.

Five of the seven were charged with illegal entry and violation of a military zone while two others faced an extra charge of espionage.

The Thai Foreign Ministry confirms it will move ahead to help the seven. Currently, the group's lawyer is conferring with the judge presiding over this case whether he can submit an appeal for bail for Veera Somkwamkid, the only one remaining in detention, right away.

The six who were released on bail are now staying at the Thai ambassador's residence in Phnom Penh. The conditions for their release include a 7,500 baht bond, a ban on leaving Cambodia, and their reporting to the court when the judge calls for it.

As for a speculation that the seven will seek to change their lawyer, there has been no official request from them yet. However, some have expressed a desire to have lawyers from the Thai Patriots Network work with the present legal team to help in the case.

The Thai Foreign Ministry said that can be done, but the new lawyers will have to seek permission from the Cambodian Lawyers Council themselves.

-- Tan Network 2011-01-19

[webfact]

Foreign Ministry: No confirmation on Cambodian border case trial date

BANGKOK, Jan 19 - There is no official confirmation available after Bangkok media reported Cambodia's Appeal Court is set to give a verdict February 1 on a case in which seven Thais charged for trespassing on Cambodian territory, a Thai Foreign Ministry spokesman said on Wednesday.

Thani Thongpakdi, the ministry spokesman, said the ministry so far has not yet received official confirmation of a trial date.

A team of Thai physicians led by Consular Affairs Deparment's Deputy Director-General Madurapochana Ittarong have visited all six Thai detainees released on bail at the Thai embassy in Phnom Penh and all are in good health, with one having caught a cold, he said.

Regarding a move of the Thai Patriots Network which has offered to act as a lawyer for any of the seven who might need, Mr Thani said the Cambodian Lawyers Association objected to the move. Therefore only a Cambodian lawyer is allowed to represent them in fighting the case, Mr Thani said, noting that no one among the seven asked for a change of lawyer and some of them have simply asked to have a Thai lawyer to join their Cambodian counsel.

The ministry spokesman made his remarks after Karun Saingam and Nattaporn Toprayoon of the Thai Patriots Network, a an ultra-nationalist movement, visited all six Thai nationals released on bail at the Thai embassy in Phnom Penh and offered them legal assistance to fight their case, including Veera Somkwamkid, the only one still being held at Prey Sar prison.

Mr Veera is leader of the network, and he was denied bail.

Mr Veera, also a key activist of the "Yellow Shirt" movement, was additionally charged with espionage for attempting to gather information that could affect national defence, an offence punishable by up to 10 years in jail.

The Thai foreign ministry spokesman said the ministry is willing to provide any necessary help whatever decision Mr Veera might take whether or not to file an appeal for bail at the Supreme Court.

The seven Thais, including the ruling Democrat Party MP Panich Vikitsreth, were arrested in Cambodia on Dec 29 for illegal entry and trespassing on a military area, charges that carry a maximum combined sentence of 18 months in prison.

Meanwhile, the Thai Patriots Network supporters issued a statement denouncing the police for using unnecessary force during the arrest of two of their leading members--Chaiwat Sinsuwong and Somboon Thongburan--for their alleged roles in 2008 airport seizures by the Yellow Shirt movement or the People's Alliance for Democracy.

The arrest took place shortly after Mr Chaiwat and Mr Somboon led supporters in presenting a petition to the king asking for his help for the seven Thais.

The network supporters vowed to prolong their protest at Government House and to join forces with their arch rivals, the Red Shirt movement, to fight for what they called a common cause in winning back the contested territory along Thai-Cambodian border.

The network however agreed to a police request to unblock two lanes of the road near Government House for traffic during rush hour in the morning and evening from Thursday onward. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-01-19

[Buchholz]

Cambodian Court Suddenly Summons Thais on Bail

Earlier this morning, the Cambodian court unexpectedly summoned the Thais arrested in Cambodia to appear in court later this afternoon. Five of the seven Thai citizens detained in Cambodia who were granted bail have been unexpectedly summoned to appear in the Cambodian court at 2 P.M. today.

According to the court's bail agreement, the Thai citizens cannot leave the country and must appear in court immediately once ordered. Veera Somkwarmkid, a leader of the Thai Patriotic Network, and his secretary, Ratree Pipatanapaiboon, are not among those summoned.

Secretary to the Foreign Minister Chavanond Intarakomalyasut said the ministry has no knowledge on whether the court will give its final verdict on the five Thai citizens today. The ministry will hold a press briefing to clarify at a later time.

It has been reported by the Phnom Pehn Post that the court will make a decision on the case on February 1. Deputy Attorney General of the Cambodian Court Sok Ruen has also confirmed that the verdicts will be handed out as originally scheduled.

Prior to this, Cambodian Foreign Minister Hor Namhong said the Cambodian government will not interfere with the court proceeding on the case.

-- Tan Network 2011-01-21

[Buchholz]

Border Residents Watch for Ruling in 7 Thais Case

Si Sa Ket residents living near the Thai-Cambodian border want to see a positive end to the issue of Cambodia's arrests of seven Thais for alleged trespassing on its territory so that the border trade will revive.

Vendors at the Thai-Cambdoian border pass in Si Sa Ket's Phusing district were still waiting for the Cambodian court 's ruling on five of seven Thais charged with border trespassing scheduled this afternoon.

Residents at the Thai-Cambodian border in Si Sa Ket said they wanted the matter to end positively so as to revive the active trade atmosphere in the area.

Army personnel still maintain stringent security measures in the border area and continue to warn the residents there against encroaching on the Cambodian soil.

Meanwhile, commander of the Second Army Region, Lieutenant General Thawatchai Samutsakorn, yesterday led members of the House committee on foreign affairs to gather information on the Thai-Cambodian border disputes at Wat Kaew Sikha Khiri Sawara near the Preah Vihear Mountain.

Thawatchai said the border situation is still normal and cooperation between troops of the two countries is going on as usual.

He said military presence of the two countries around Wat Kaew Sikha Khiri Sawara has already been reduced from some hundreds on each side to only five.

The move followed an agreement during a recent meeting of the two countries's prime ministers.

He said Cambodians living around the temple have already moved from the disputed land while most of those entering the area are tourists who come in a small number of 20 to 30 a day.

He also suggested the border demarcation process be put on hold if its outcome can incite misunderstanding between the peoples of the two countries, but reiterated the army will not allow infringement on the country's sovereignty.

-- Tan Network 2011-01-21

[webfact]

topic continues:

Five Thais on trial in Cambodia over border case

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