Back To The Uk

[gerryBScot]

Just thinking ahead and in the event that we decide to return to the UK. We live here in LOS me, UK, a wife and a son, the wife a Filipino national and the boy is a British citizen though born here. We are both teachers. I don't have any assets in the UK beyond some chump change in a bank account; I don't have many assets here either. I take it my son comes in automatically presumably as a British citizen and passport holder. How do I get my wife in and in particular how do I demonstrate that I can support both when at the point of application I don't even have a place to stay in the UK? We have been married for 2 + years and we have all the paperwork. I think I read somewhere that once we can show we have been married 4+ years that my wife is eligible for Indefinite Leave to Remain. I stress we are pretty settled here and not looking to go back but just thinking ahead, I would welcome any advice or comment. Best wishes

[Basil B]

Hi Garry,

No expert but tell you what I know (researched).

Your son has the same right as you with a British Passport.

Yes, if you have been married more than 4 years your wife will be entitled to ILR as long as she is traveling with you or to join you in the UK for the purpose of staying in the UK, she has passed the Life In UK, A1 English test (or has better acceptable qualifications), you have somewhere to live, you can support her, and has been living with you all the time.

More info here:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/IDIs/idischapter8/section1/section1.pdf?view=Binary

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/immigrationrules/part8/spouses_civil_partners/ (read rule 281)

I would also recommend finding out what you maybe entitled to if you have been paying NI (or not).

[7by7]

Couple of points.

Yes, if you have been married more than 4 years your wife will be entitled to ILR

Sorry to be a pedant, but it's actually ILE, Indefinite Leave to Enter, not Remain; one cannot remain in a country if one has not yet entered it!

she has passed the Life In UK, A1 English test

The Life in the UK test and the A1 English test are two different things.

All those applying to settle in the UK as a spouse, partner, fiance etc. must produce, with their application, a certificate to show that they have a basic English ability, but only in speaking and listening. The A1 test is one acceptable way of doing this.

Applicants for ILR or ILE must also have satisfied the Knowledge of Life and Language in the UK requirement (KOL) wether by passing the Lituk test or progressing on an acceptable ESOL with citizenship course. This can only be done in the UK. It is possible to take the test while in the UK, and it will not lapse.

If someone meets all of the requirements for ILE except KOL then they will be issued with ILE subject to KOL. Once in the UK and having satisfied KOL they can then apply for ILR.

For more on this, see Uk Settlement; Spouse Visa Or ILE?

You may also find the following helpful:

Maintenance and accommodation

Settlement; Spouses

New English language requirement for partners

Knowledge of language and life in the UK

All of the above is the situation at present, and is subject to change. Should you decide to move to the UK you should check the requirements at that time.

[gerryBScot]

Hey that is good to know and thanks for the information and links. My wife is an English teacher and is well qualified, probably speaks better English than me so competence in English wouldn't be an issue......... WHat would be the position if I returned in advance to set up home, get employment etc . As always thx.

[7by7]

WHat would be the position if I returned in advance to set up home, get employment etc .

When your wife applies she will need to show that she will be adequately maintained and accommodated without recourse to public funds.

Were you to travel beforehand and find employment and suitable accommodation in the UK before your wife applied it may be easier to satisfy this requirement than if you all travel at the same time.

If you are all coming to the UK at the same time the ECO will take into consideration your and your wife's employment prospects once in the UK and any savings you may have. Financial support from a third party is also acceptable. Accommodation with a third party, such as a family member, is also acceptable, provided there is at least one room for the exclusive use of you and your wife and adequate room for your son without overcrowding. See the maintenance and accommodation link above for more details.

[gerryBScot]

Thanks for that. In the event we try to go back together are there any guidelines about the amount of funds required to satisfy the authorities that we have enough to set up home etc. I expect there won't be a figure but presumably some criteria. Thanks

[7by7]

The courts have determined that it would be inappropriate for an immigrant family to have an income of less than the income support level for a UK family of the same size.

However, this is only guidance and not law.

See the Maintenance and accommodation link provided earlier for more details.

[billd766]

An interesting thought more or less on topic.

What would happen if I were to take my family back to the UK.

Me English

Son Dual nationality

Wife Thai.

When I divorced back in 1999 my wife got the house and everything except my pensions.

Would I have to apply to a local authority for somewhere to life for the 3 of us and would that count.

I am 66 and retired with no intention of returning to live there but just asking the question.

[7by7]

Council housing is on the list of proscribed public funds, so your wife would be ineligible.

However, you and your son (assuming one of his nationalities is British) are eligible. That you were granted a two bedroom flat or house for you and your son and your wife lived there too would not breach the rules.

Having said that, a settlement visa applicant needs to show in their application that they have suitable accommodation in the UK. So, were your wife to submit a settlement visa application saying that you as a family had nowhere to live and were hoping to get council accommodation when you arrived in the UK I expect that it would be refused on accommodation grounds.

But you could, of course, stay with a friend or relative initially and put yourselves on the council waiting list when you arrived.

[gerryBScot]

Good question BillD. Like you I have no immediate wish to go back but I am really just thinking of a worst case scenario. I think we have a great life here, especially with a baby son, which we would struggle to match anywhere in the UK in the absence of significant funds. Just one more point: if we were to return as a family group with no job and no home, what amount of money would we likely need to have in savings to satisfy the immigration people in terms of granting my wife entry.. In real terms I have family who can provide a place to stay in the short term but in the longer term it would be a no-goer. So if we applied on the basis of setting up home, finding work etc, apart from indicating where we are likely to settle, and giving details of our potential employability, work history etc, is there any official guidance on what funds you would need to have to get set up?

Edited January 16, 2011 by gerryBScot

[7by7]

Your question is answered in the Maintenance and accommodation guidance linked to earlier; have you not read it?

The part relevant to your question is MAA4 Maintenance: General requirements

There is no explicit minimum figure for what represents sufficient maintenance. If dependants of the main applicant are going to accompany him / her to the United Kingdom, resources must be available for the whole family unit to be maintained.

The ECO should bear in mind the position taken by the UK Asylum and Immigration Tribunal (UKAIT):

In 2006, the UKAIT in UKAIT 00065 KA and Others (Pakistan), strongly suggested that it would not be appropriate to have immigrant families existing on resources that were less than the Income Support level for a British family of that size.

More information is available on the British & Irish Legal Information Institute website (BAILII)

If it is more likely than not that the total amount that the applicant and sponsor will have to live on will be below what the income support level would be for a British family of that size, then it may be appropriate to refuse the application on maintenance and accommodation grounds.

[billd766]

Good question BillD. Like you I have no immediate wish to go back but I am really just thinking of a worst case scenario. I think we have a great life here, especially with a baby son, which we would struggle to match anywhere in the UK in the absence of significant funds. Just one more point: if we were to return as a family group with no job and no home, what amount of money would we likely need to have in savings to satisfy the immigration people in terms of granting my wife entry.. In real terms I have family who can provide a place to stay in the short term but in the longer term it would be a no-goer. So if we applied on the basis of setting up home, finding work etc, apart from indicating where we are likely to settle, and giving details of our potential employability, work history etc, is there any official guidance on what funds you would need to have to get set up?

In my case I am 66 and retired with no chance of further income.

It seems as though my son and I would be allowed to stay but my wife would not.

Does this not breach the UK governments promises of not breaking up families? It would certainly cause a problem with the EU rules and regulations.

I remember seeing something on a BBC news website a while ago which describes people of my age living solely on pensions as officially poor.

However as I have no intention of returning it was a passing thought.

7by7

said

Your question is answered in the Maintenance and accommodation guidance linked to earlier; have you not read it?

The part relevant to your question is MAA4 Maintenance: General requirements

Yes I have read it but there is no information as to the actual amount of income required only general vague requirements.

[gerryBScot]

Thanks very much to everyone for your assistance. I feel a lot clearer. Bill doesn't the European Convention on Human Rights family life, which presumably includes being together with your spouse, a right . How would that work in the event you had to go back. I've still got a few years of work in me I hope and I do like it here. But good to know my route out if needed and some of the likely obstacles and solutions. As always thanks.

[Basil B]

Thanks very much to everyone for your assistance. I feel a lot clearer. Bill doesn't the European Convention on Human Rights family life, which presumably includes being together with your spouse, a right . How would that work in the event you had to go back. I've still got a few years of work in me I hope and I do like it here. But good to know my route out if needed and some of the likely obstacles and solutions. As always thanks.

I would like to think so, but if they can enforce the A1 English test then it seems not.

One thing for sure Cameron made an election pledge to reduce migration to the UK and he is trying his best, I suspect that there will be many obstacles put in the way of applicants for settlement visas to reduce to numbers, many may fall when challenged at European level but will take years to reach there giving him a few years of reduced numbers, when his rules are overturned by the European Court, he then can blame Europe.

Edited January 16, 2011 by Basil B

[7by7]

7by7

said

Your question is answered in the Maintenance and accommodation guidance linked to earlier; have you not read it?

The part relevant to your question is MAA4 Maintenance: General requirements

Yes I have read it but there is no information as to the actual amount of income required only general vague requirements.

This is because, as the guidance says, there is no minimum figure. Each case is judged on it's own merits.

Which is right and proper. For example; property prices and rents in London and the Home Counties are much higher than the rest of the UK. It would be unfair to refuse an applicant who intended to live in Newcastle because they couldn't afford a property in London.

Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights says

1.Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

2.There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

The immigration law of a signatory state falls under the exceptions in Para 2.

Of course, that law must be applied fairly, and in the UK settlement applicants, among others, have the right of appeal up to and including the European Court.

[billd766]

7by7

said

Your question is answered in the Maintenance and accommodation guidance linked to earlier; have you not read it?

The part relevant to your question is MAA4 Maintenance: General requirements

Yes I have read it but there is no information as to the actual amount of income required only general vague requirements.

This is because, as the guidance says, there is no minimum figure. Each case is judged on it's own merits.

Which is right and proper. For example; property prices and rents in London and the Home Counties are much higher than the rest of the UK. It would be unfair to refuse an applicant who intended to live in Newcastle because they couldn't afford a property in London.

Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights says

1.Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

2.There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

The immigration law of a signatory state falls under the exceptions in Para 2.

Of course, that law must be applied fairly, and in the UK settlement applicants, among others, have the right of appeal up to and including the European Court.

Thanks for that.

I never thought about the difference in rental prices.

There was a bit on BBC Live news about some families were getting income support because they lived in an area of London where they received 2,000 GBP per week to live there.

That's much more than I receive in a month of state pensions.