Muslim Separatist Group Threaten (news)

[Cheeky Farang]

Thailand 'in secret talks with Muslim separatist group'

By Sebastien Berger, South East Asia Correspondent

(Filed: 29/08/2005)

The Thai government is in secret talks with separatists in the Muslim-majority south in an effort to end an insurgency that has claimed hundreds of lives, a rebel source claimed yesterday.

A spokesman for the Pattani United Liberation Organisation, or Pulo, said the talks had taken place over four days in Lausanne, Switzerland, ending at the weekend.

"The Thais do not want people to know about this," he said.

"Our struggle is for our own people, to get back what is rightfully ours. Pattani belongs to the Malays, just like Malaysia."

Thailand is Buddhist, but its four southern-most provinces were part of an independent sultanate populated by ethnic Malays until it was formally annexed a century ago.

A low-level insurgency has waxed and waned over the decades, but erupted in January last year and more than 800 people have been killed since then.

Until now, Thai authorities have adopted a tough approach, with occasional velvet touches. Eighty people arrested at a demonstration last autumn suffocated to death while being transported to an army camp for interrogation, and a former Thai prime minister has said that an emergency powers decree introduced recently was seen in the south as a ''licence to kill". None of the Bangkok government's draconian measures have stemmed the killing, despite repeated assurances that the ringleaders would be arrested ''soon".

So far the violence has been almost entirely confined to the south, but if the Thai prime minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, continues to be "stubborn", Pulo said it is prepared to mount attacks in Bangkok or tourist destinations such as Phuket or Pattaya.

"Thaksin is my enemy. If he carries on like he is now, it is going to get worse," the Pulo spokesman said.

"I would like to tell Thaksin that we want back what belongs to us."

But he said the group would not espouse suicide bombings and had no connection with al-Qa'eda or its south-east Asian offshoot Jemaah Islamiyah.

He is the first Pulo representative to speak publicly since the insurgency exploded. He claimed that tens of thousands of people were "involved in the struggle" by contributing to it financially, while the insurgents themselves were "prepared to die".

His comments indicate that the insurgency is territorially, rather than religiously, driven, suggesting that a political solution could be possible. Independence, though, would be inconceivable in Bangkok, and Thai authorities have also ruled out regional autonomy.

A Thai government spokesman yesterday denied that talks had taken place.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...29/ixworld.html

[Kerryd]

Thailand 'in secret talks with Muslim separatist group'

By Sebastien Berger, South East Asia Correspondent

(Filed: 29/08/2005)

The Thai government is in secret talks with separatists in the Muslim-majority south in an effort to end an insurgency that has claimed hundreds of lives, a rebel source claimed yesterday.

 

A spokesman for the Pattani United Liberation Organisation, or Pulo, said the talks had taken place over four days in Lausanne, Switzerland, ending at the weekend.

"The Thais do not want people to know about this," he said.

A Thai government spokesman yesterday denied that talks had taken place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds like someone trying to grab some headlines, without any real connection to what is happening (unless he gets emails from his wife's cousin, that has a friend, who heard from someone else about something).

Now he's trying to act like he's a player. Supposed secret meetings in Switzerland ? Interviews with a UK reporter ? Sounds like &lt;deleted&gt; to me.

[meelousee]

If this is not just a headline grabber.

"Our struggle is for our own people, to get back what is rightfully ours. Pattani belongs to the Malays, just like Malaysia."

This would indicate to me that Malaysia is not part of the solution but part of the root of the problem. This whole annex took place 100 years ago, and to claim they want back what is theirs seems they want to separate and 'become' part of Malaysia, would the Malaysian Gov. subscribe to this? Would they welcome this? Do they want just an autonomous state?

The other questions are who governs, who will police, what type of system of government will they have, what legal system? Independent Islamic Republic state, Shar’ia law? Islamic religious police?

Pulo said it is prepared to mount attacks in Bangkok or tourist destinations such as Phuket or Pattaya.

"Thaksin is my enemy. If he carries on like he is now, it is going to get worse," the Pulo spokesman said. "I would like to tell Thaksin that we want back what belongs to us."

Given the complexity of the problem, what would you do? I read a letter to the editor BKK-POST, that gave the "idea to pay them off at the land rate when they were annexed, and allow them to move to Malaysia, or become Thai and stay on in peace. If they want to be Malay move"

If it is a headline grabber, then it is a real bad one that will only serve to make things worse.

[snoophound]

Does Thailand want Pattani?

It was the British who gave it to thailand after all??.

Doubt that would solve the problem,the culture of greed that belief perpetuates will see to that.

If this is not just a headline grabber.

"Our struggle is for our own people, to get back what is rightfully ours. Pattani belongs to the Malays, just like Malaysia."

This would indicate to me that Malaysia is not part of the solution but part of the root of the problem. This whole annex took place 100 years ago, and to claim they want back what is theirs seems they want to separate and 'become' part of Malaysia, would the Malaysian Gov. subscribe to this? Would they welcome this? Do they want just an autonomous state?

The other questions are who governs, who will police, what type of system of government will they have, what legal system? Independent Islamic Republic state, Shar’ia law? Islamic religious police?

Pulo said it is prepared to mount attacks in Bangkok or tourist destinations such as Phuket or Pattaya.

"Thaksin is my enemy. If he carries on like he is now, it is going to get worse," the Pulo spokesman said. "I would like to tell Thaksin that we want back what belongs to us."

Given the complexity of the problem, what would you do? I read a letter to the editor BKK-POST, that gave the "idea to pay them off at the land rate when they were annexed, and allow them to move to Malaysia, or become Thai and stay on in peace. If they want to be Malay move"

If it is a headline grabber, then it is a real bad one that will only serve to make things worse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[opothai]

Given the complexity of the problem, what would you do? I read a letter to the editor BKK-POST, that gave the "idea to pay them off at the land rate when they were annexed, and allow them to move to Malaysia, or become Thai and stay on in peace. If they want to be Malay move"

to simple and a perfect solution,

[george]

Thai government denies secret talks with PULO separatists in South

BANGKOK: -- Deputy Prime Minister and Justice Minister Pol. Gen. Chidchai Vanasatidya Monday denied that the Thai government had sent any officials to secret talks with the Pattani United Liberation Organisation (PULO) in Switzerland last week as reported by a foreign media.

In a first interview with Reuter news agency since violence erupted in the three southern border provinces of Thailand since January 2004, a spokesman for the PULO said his movement and the Thai government had entered secret talks August 24-27 in Lausanne, Switzerland.

"The Thais do not want people to know about this," he was quoted as saying in an exclusive interview.

In the first official reaction to the claim, Pol. Gen. Chidchai spoke to reporters before chairing a meeting of senior security officials here today, denied that Thailand engaged in any such negotiation.

"No government officials were involved in the alleged secret talk. The media should not pay attention to that particular issue as it implicates with national interest and the government is still keeping a close watch on any development," said the deputy prime minister.

Pol. Gen. Chidchai declined to comment further on the PULO claim that they planned to take their fight to Bangkok or to top tourist spots such as Phuket or Pattaya.

He said the government need not issue any official statement to the international community as it is Thailand's internal affair and does not concern others.

Meanwhile, Thailand Army Commander- in- chief Gen. Prawit Wongsuwan reassured the public that there is no need to send additional troops to the Malaysia border provinces in the far South following the threat as security forces are already providing extra care for local people and their property.

So far, Gen. Prawit said, there is no indication of unusal movement on the part of any particular group.

--TNA 2005-08-29

[Anek18]

This stuff angers me how muslim don't want to live in peace with the free world.

I have one solution..send down death squads and show no mercy

Edited August 29, 2005 by Anek18

[singa-traz]

Apparently it's not the first time we hear about Secret Talk:

HEADLINE: Kitti calls for secret talks with militants; Suggests meetings in Sweden or Malaysia

A former Fourth Army commander has suggested that the government have secret talks with core members of the southern insurgency, including Dr Wan Kadir Jehman, the suspected leader of the Bersatu umbrella separatist group.

''The government should set up a working group to conduct secret talks with Dr Wan Kadir and many other separatist leaders under arrest warrants and hiding in a neighbouring country to learn what they want,'' Gen Kitti Rattanachaya said yesterday. 

''The talks could be held in Malaysia or Sweden. The negotiations must be held in secret and results revealed to the media only after the talks bear fruit.''

He said secret talks were held after the arms robbery at the 4th Development Battalion base in Narathiwat's Cho Airong district on Jan 4 last year, but they failed because news was leaked to the media.

Gen Kitti said negotiations were necessary since the separatist movement had step by step plans and the violence was unlikely to come to an end soon.

He estimated the insurgents still had more than 7,000 firearms in stock.

If Dr Wan Kadir insisted on setting up a separate Pattani state, government negotiators could tell him that it was against the constitution and ask him to follow a democratic path by standing for election and pushing his agenda in parliament.

Gen Kitti suggested the negotiation team comprise only a few people led by a high-level official of the Foreign Ministry, National Intelligence Agency or the armed forces.

If it was led by the military, the leader should be a division commander or the spokesman for one of the forces.

Gen Kitti said there was much duplication of work in the current handling of the situation in the South. Military work should be done by the Fourth Army, which should not be led by other people.

He has written a book, Yam Yai Fai Tai (Miscellany of Southern Fire), which gives details of the separatist movement and recommends ways to solve the problem.

In the book, Gen Kitti said the government under Chuan Leekpai made a mistake by changing the terminology for the ''separatist movement'' to ''separatist bandits'' to tone down the perceived degree of violence in 1995.

Then in 1996, the government under Banharn Silpa-archa made another mistake by putting the Southern Border Provinces Administration Centre (SBPAC), led by the interior minister, in charge of the South, replacing the Fourth Army.

In 2001, the government under Mr Thaksin made even more mistakes by abolishing the Civilian-Police-Military Command 43 and SBPAC.

The combined mistakes worked in favour of the separatist insurgency, Gen Kitti said.

Could it be that there is more than just some separatists at work in the South ?

[Kerryd]

I keep hearing about how these poor separatists are discriminated against in the job market and areas like education.

Yet they seem to have the money (and passports) to fly to places like Sweden and Switzerland for secret meetings ?

Pretty sure they aren't staying in low class hotels and eating plain rice while they are there either.

The whole idea that the southern provinces used to be Malay and they want to separate (and rejoin Malaysia ?) because they were annexed 100 years ago is just an excuse.

If no ones buys that excuse, they will come up with another, and keep doing so. It really iritates me, because it seems to be the same thing going on in different parts of the world (Phillippines, Western China, Kashmir, parts of Africa).

This isn't much different than the way communism spread after the 2nd world war, and the motives are much the same, just delete communism and insert religion. Same story (hopefully the same ending as well ? Only time will tell).

[george]

Thailand denies secret talks with Malay rebels

BANGKOK: -- Thailand denied on Monday it held secret talks last week with ethnic Malay rebels from its Muslim far south to try to defuse 20 months of unrest in which more than 800 people have been killed.

"It's totally unbelievable," Defence Minister General Thamarak Isarangura told reporters in reference to a statement by a spokesman for the Pattani United Liberation Organisation (PULO), an ethnic Malay separatist group in southern Thailand.

In his first interview with a major news organisation since violence flared in January 2004, a PULO spokesman told Reuters separatist representatives had met Thai government officials from Aug 24-27 in Lausanne in Switzerland.

He did not give details, other than to say that ageing separatist figurehead Wan Kadir, now in exile in Sweden, was not party to the talks because he was out of touch and "had no way of controlling what is going on in the south".

It was impossible to verify the claims made by the spokesman, who did not want anything about his identity or whereabouts revealed for his own safety. The interview was conducted in Thailand.

Describing himself as a "senior PULO member", the spokesman said he was in regular contact with the movement's leaders -- security permitting. PULO'S leaders were not in Thailand, he said.

More than 800 people have died in shootings and bombings in the southernmost provinces of Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat, where 80 percent of the population are Muslim, ethnic Malay and do not speak Thai as their first language.

FLIRTATIONS

The jungle-clad region, which Pattanis say is the spiritual home of Islam in Southeast Asia, was an independent sultanate until it was annexed by Buddhist Thailand a century ago.

Deputy Prime Minister Chidchai Vanasatidya, who carries day-to-day responsibility for the southern crisis, also denied Thailand had ever spoken to PULO, which was behind a low-level separatist guerrilla campaign in the 1970s and 1980s.

"I emphasize that we never had any negotiations with PULO," Chidchai said.

Despite the denials, Bangkok has flirted with talks with separatist groups in the past, although it is unclear if the two sides have ever met.

In July 2004, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said government officials were holding talks with Wan Kadir in Malaysia, although it is not clear if any meetings took place or what their outcome was.

Proposed talks a month earlier between army officers and Wan Kadir, who ran a separatist coalition called Bersatu, failed to materialise due to opponents inside the government who said negotiations would only give legitimacy to the movement.

Analysts said that even if a meeting had taken place, it was too premature to see it as the beginning of the end of the violence, which has alarmed foreign governments and investors.

"It is not inconceivable that somebody with links to PULO in Europe might have held talks in Switzerland with somebody with links to the Thai government," said Anthony Davis of Jane's Intelligence Review.

"However, even if that did happen, does this amount to negotiations, or even preparatory negotiations, on the future of the far south? I don't think so," he said.

--Reuters 2005-08-29

[joe beets]

This isn't much different than the way communism spread after the 2nd world war, and the motives are much the same, just delete communism and insert religion. Same story (hopefully the same ending as well ? Only time will tell).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Er, not so fast there.

North Korea claims they have nukes.

Do you think they're bluffing?

How badly do you want to find out?

Communism isn't quite dead yet, and the death throes could get real messy.

Just sayin'.

jb

[Nam Kao]

But the liberals insist they are peaceful

[singa-traz]

Looks like it's not the first time, the Army do not have the same view in how to share the pie ... I mean, resolve the conflict in the South.

http://xenothai.com/news.php?id=57

Talks with Wan Kadir postponed / June 01, 2004

 

The planned political dialogue in Singapore between Thai officials and separatist Bersatu leader Wan Abdul Kadir Che Man has been indefinitely postponed, following strong opposition from Deputy Prime Minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh.

An informed military source said yesterday Gen Chavalit, who is in charge of national security, was much disturbed by reports that two army colonels would represent army commander-in-chief Gen Chaisit Shinawatra in discussions with Mr Wan Kadir, while Gen Chaisit makes an official visit to Singapore on June 5.

"Gen Chavalit discussed the issue with the defence minister, saying he wanted to call off the planned talks,'' the source said.

Defence Minister Chettha Thanajaro bowed to the deputy prime minister's wish even though he had been hopeful the informal chat would prove useful in helping bring some positive change to the security situation in the deep South, said the source.

The defence minister saw no justification why informal discussions should not be held with the Bersatu leader, since this would be the beginning of a road to peace and development in the Muslim-dominated southernmost provinces, a senior defence officer said.

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, bypassing Gen Chavalit, had earlier told Gen Chettha, the defence minister, to begin a dialogue with the Bersatu chief.

"We are quite surprised by the strong opposition from Gen Chavalit. He was not happy when he heard a senior government official [the army commander]was to be involved in the talks,'' said the officer.

[JemJem]

This stuff angers me how muslim don't want to live in peace with the free world.

I have one solution..send down death squads   and show no mercy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gees...the racism/bigotry and hatred expressed by some posters here makes the fascism of groups like Aryan Nation seem tame....sad ! Very sad !

Coming to the original topic...I doubt very much that a significant number of Southern people support terrorist groups like Pulo. Unfortunately, the terrorists intimidate the locals via various means and therefore, most of these locals do not cooperate with the authorities.

Regards,

Jem

[sriracha john]

This stuff angers me how muslim don't want to live in peace with the free world.

I have one solution..send down death squads   and show no mercy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They tried that in Tak Bai with the military transport trucks.... it doesn't work...

[Bangkok Barry]

Pol. Gen. Chidchai declined to comment further on the PULO claim that they planned to take their fight to Bangkok or to top tourist spots such as Phuket or Pattaya.

He said the government need not issue any official statement to the international community as it is Thailand's internal affair and does not concern others.

How are threats to bomb or attack tourist areas an 'internal affair' that doesn't concern others????

[Indo-Siam]

As I understand it, there is a "grand plan" by certain well-funded Muslims around the world to create a global "Caliphate" - basically seeking to attain world dominance. As I understand it, should this Caliphate take over, it is bad news for all non-Mulisms - as in: convert of perish. We are talking about extreme intolerance of conflicting ideas.

I hear much sympathy among "do-gooders" for the poor down-trodden Muslims in the South. Well, two things I read made deep impressions upon me:

1) The OIC (Organization of Islamic Conference) sent an inspection team to southern Thailand earlier this year. After looking around and talking to the locals, they left. Before they left, they made a formal statement, basically announcing that they had concluded that the problems in Southern Thailand could not possibly have any connection to any religious antagonisms, BECAUSE THE SOUTHERN THAI MUSLIMS WERE BEING TREATED BETTER BY THEIR GOVERNMENT THAN MUSLIMS IN MANY OTHER (Islamic?) COUNTRIES. See: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?p...8-6-2005_pg4_12

2) I read another report (which I can no longer find on the Internet) that reported about a translation of a PULO "game plan" document - I believe it was recovered in Malaysia by Malaysian intelligence service - and it basically laid out the master plan for driving the Buddhist population out of the Pattani area. The plan was simple: Use "terroristic" violence against Buddhist teachers, adminstrators, and students to such a degree that Buddhist parents would be unwilling to continue sending their children to school. As no parents will accept having their children receive no schooling, the Buddhist population would be forced to relocate. Quite literally, this was a plan for "ethnic cleansing" - the expulsion of Buddhists from their homes by violent means. PULO openly advocates ethnic cleansing - and yet those words never appear in the mainstream media.

I understand that it is only a small minority of extremist Muslims who openly advocate violence and extermination of all non-believers. But I have liitle respect for all the "moderate Muslims" who are too "frightened" to reign in their own mad-dog bretheren. What I understnad fairly well is how naiive these"moderate Muslims" are - because I'm pretty certain that if the extremists ever succeed in annihilating the non-Islamic population of the earth, the very next thing they are going to do is exterminate the moderate Muslims - because the moderates are not "righteous" enough.

Religious fundamentalism - whether Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, or whatever - is universally evil in my book - because fundamentalism is intolerant of other viewpoints.

I do not practice Buddhism, but I have a lot of admiration for this faith - for the simple reason that it seems to be very tolerant and embrasive of alternate viewpoints.

Over the next 50 years, I suspect that we will hear much less about al Qaeda, and much more about "the Caliphate". And we will do so in the context of watching World War III fully unfold - the battle between Islam, and the rest of mankind. I shudder at the thought of how much blood will be shed as a result.

Indo-Siam

[singa-traz]

As I understand it, there is a "grand plan" by certain well-funded Muslims around the world to create a global "Caliphate" - basically seeking to attain world dominance.  As I understand it, should this Caliphate take over, it is bad news for all non-Mulisms - as in:  convert of perish.  We are talking about extreme intolerance of conflicting ideas.

I hear much sympathy among "do-gooders" for the poor down-trodden Muslims in the South.  Well, two things I read made deep impressions upon me:

1)  The OIC (Organization of Islamic Conference) sent an inspection team to southern Thailand earlier this year.  After looking around and talking to the locals, they left.  Before they left, they made a formal statement, basically announcing that they had concluded that the problems in Southern Thailand could not possibly have any connection to any religious antagonisms, BECAUSE THE SOUTHERN THAI MUSLIMS WERE BEING TREATED BETTER BY THEIR GOVERNMENT THAN MUSLIMS IN MANY OTHER (Islamic?) COUNTRIES.    See: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?p...8-6-2005_pg4_12

2)  I read another report (which I can no longer find on the Internet) that reported about a translation of a PULO "game plan" document - I believe it was recovered in Malaysia by Malaysian intelligence service - and it basically laid out the master plan for driving the Buddhist population out of the Pattani area. The plan was simple:  Use "terroristic" violence against Buddhist teachers, adminstrators, and students to such a degree that Buddhist parents would be unwilling to continue sending their children to school.  As no parents will accept having their children receive no schooling, the Buddhist population would be forced to relocate.  Quite literally, this was a plan for "ethnic cleansing" - the expulsion of Buddhists from their homes by violent means.  PULO openly advocates ethnic cleansing - and yet those words never appear in the mainstream media.

I understand that it is only a small minority of extremist Muslims who openly advocate violence and extermination of all non-believers.  But I have liitle respect for all the "moderate Muslims" who are too "frightened" to reign in their own mad-dog bretheren.  What I understnad fairly well is how naiive these"moderate Muslims" are - because I'm pretty certain that if the extremists ever succeed in annihilating the non-Islamic population of the earth, the very next thing they are going to do is exterminate the moderate Muslims - because the moderates are not "righteous" enough. 

Religious fundamentalism - whether Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, or whatever - is universally evil in my book - because fundamentalism is intolerant of other viewpoints. 

I do not practice Buddhism, but I have a lot of admiration for this faith - for the simple reason that it seems to be very tolerant and embrasive of alternate viewpoints. 

Over the next 50 years, I suspect that we will hear much less about al Qaeda, and much more about "the Caliphate".  And we will do so in the context of watching World War III fully unfold - the battle between Islam, and the rest of mankind.  I shudder at the thought of how much blood will be shed as a result.

Indo-Siam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting ...

Point 1, you refer to a statement from OIC that said ... "they had concluded that the problems in Southern Thailand could not possibly have any connection to any religious antagonisms,... " and Point 2, you then argue that it is a religious war ???

I wonder what your muslim friends think of your opinion ?

"And we will do so in the context of watching World War III fully unfold - the battle between Islam, and the rest of mankind."

Waow ...

But again, maybe you are right, and the JMJ in Germany last month may have been just a big recruitment event for the WWIII ...

[seonai]

A very interesting topic indeed, Indo Siam's comments and fears reiterate my own. I worry so much that this is going to escalate into war. Knowing Thailand's reputation for 'curbing' any activity that does not conform to what is the 'norm' here... I wonder what the Thai government will do next? We can't be one sided about this... I am Scottish but I have never fought for a seperate Scotland. And yet many of my counrtymen do.

I just worry so much about lack of education amongst the young and how they could easily be 'indoctrinated' into fighting for a free state. Know what I mean????

And.... Indo Siam, I agree that this 'war' against non Muslims is getting so big that it is absolutely frightening. I think I have said before that even on the small Muslim island where I live, there are about 2,000 males who, at the drop of a hat would probably fight to defend their religion. And that's in an area that is really quiet and normally peaceful. Underneath though, faith, often blind faith, is prevailant.

Scary Stuff.

Seonai

[wilko]

This stuff angers me how muslim don't want to live in peace with the free world.

I have one solution..send down death squads   and show no mercy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Be like them then??

[Indo-Siam]

singa-traz -

I don't know - English may not be your first language. I wrote that two things I read had made deep impressions upon me. I did not say that the two things agreed with one another, or supported a single argument.

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[Galong]

Thai TV could be part of the problem. If you watch it, you'll see (or think) that most Thais have a big house, a light-skinned skinny wife or girlfriend, a Benz and slaves - oops, I mean servants that they can abuse at will.

If I lived down in the Deep South and was a young man with a future that looks like, well-- hmmm, I can be a fisherman or a rubber tapper-- I'd be pissed off too. I'd want all the crap the rest of the country gets.

Thai TV is as bad or worse than American TV. It's eroding traditional Thai culture and values. This has spread all the way to the southernmost border now.

I wonder how many of the religious fighters are acutally wanting more material goods??

Does this all go back to the education or lack of education that Thai school offer??

[Kerryd]

Another BBC interview with a "former" insurgent, regarding the problems in the south:

South Thailand: Behind the bombs

From that article:

"The ordinary southern Thais don't really want anything, but the people who've studied higher education in Malaysia want the land back. They want Pattani state back," he said, referring to the independent Islamic Sultanate of Pattani that had been part of British Malaya and was then incorporated into Thailand around 100 years ago."

"Sunai Phasuk of Human Rights Watch thinks that, for the newer radicalised insurgents, religion is far more important.

"Separatism used to be the priority, and religion followed after that, but with these new groups it's in reverse order - the new fighters seem to want to purify the area," he said."

Some people suggest that the government take a softer, more conciliatory stance towards the insurgents/militants/terrorists/separatists/what ever they are called today.

Yet, when those same groups make no concessions of their own, and continue the violence, they don't receive the same criticism. When they stick to a "our way or the highway, all or nothing" attitude, nothing bad seems to be said about them (by the people who advocate a "softer" approach, the Human Rights organizations, the more liberal media).

Why is it that so many people are so quick to criticize anything the government proposes (or does), yet they are so silent about the actions of the insurgents/militants/terrorists/separatists ?

[wilko]

Another BBC interview with a "former" insurgent, regarding the problems in the south:

South Thailand: Behind the bombs

From that article:

"The ordinary southern Thais don't really want anything, but the people who've studied higher education in Malaysia want the land back. They want Pattani state back," he said, referring to the independent Islamic Sultanate of Pattani that had been part of British Malaya and was then incorporated into Thailand around 100 years ago."

"Sunai Phasuk of Human Rights Watch thinks that, for the newer radicalised insurgents, religion is far more important.

"Separatism used to be the priority, and religion followed after that, but with these new groups it's in reverse order - the new fighters seem to want to purify the area," he said."

Some people suggest that the government take a softer, more conciliatory stance towards the insurgents/militants/terrorists/separatists/what ever they are called today.

Yet, when those same groups make no concessions of their own, and continue the violence, they don't receive the same criticism. When they stick to a "our way or the highway, all or nothing" attitude, nothing bad seems to be said about them (by the people who advocate a "softer" approach, the Human Rights organizations, the more liberal media).

Why is it that so many people are so quick to criticize anything the government proposes (or does), yet they are so silent about the actions of the insurgents/militants/terrorists/separatists ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, ignore the problem for 100 years and then stack 'em all up in pickup trucks...that'll solve the problem!

Edited August 31, 2005 by wilko

[Kerryd]

Yeah, ignore the problem for 100 years and then stack 'em all up in pickup trucks...that'll solve the problem!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly what I was talking about.

I suppose the best solution then would be to allow these groups to continue beheading people, murdering teachers, monks and other "soft" targets, bombing shops that are audacious enough to open on Fridays, and comitting numerous other crimes ?

Yeah, that'll work.

But what will you say if one morning (shortly after h*ll freezes over) the Thai government suddenly gives these people complete independance. But the violence doesn't stop. In addition to a little in-country "purification", suddenly the violence starts up in the areas that border this new nation ? Using the same justification that they are using now ?

Then what ? Bend over and let them stick it to you again, and again ? When do you finally say enough is enough ?

When it's your family that are the victims of one of these groups ? When it's your home or business that gets bombed ?

When do you draw the line ?

[Galong]

"Sunai Phasuk of Human Rights Watch thinks that, for the newer radicalised insurgents, religion is far more important.

"

Religion is more important... I can just see it, in a far and distant land, during a time when men were men and camels got flowers for their birthdays, a bunch of Arabs sitting around a campfire in the desert laughing about some of the stuff they were writing down... "let's see, I know, let's tell them that if they die for our cause, they'll get a bunch of virgins in the afterlife." Wow, I can't believe that the folks who wrote the bible didn't think of that one.

Maybe they had ugly women. I've seen paintings of the Virgin Mary and I don't think I'd want to get stuck with dat!

[sriracha john]

For those that believe the Deep South troubles are solely ones caused by those promoting a Separatist state or that it is solely rooted in Islam are woefully

under-informed.

There are multiple, multiple factors involved... and the government's response has been woefully inadequate by not taking these multiple factors into consideration in their attempts to come to a peaceful resolution.

Not that long ago, the government didn't even recognize ANY separatists existed and blamed the entire problem on "bandits."

Edited August 31, 2005 by sriracha john

[wilko]

Yeah, ignore the problem for 100 years and then stack 'em all up in pickup trucks...that'll solve the problem!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly what I was talking about.

I suppose the best solution then would be to allow these groups to continue beheading people, murdering teachers, monks and other "soft" targets, bombing shops that are audacious enough to open on Fridays, and comitting numerous other crimes ?

Yeah, that'll work.

But what will you say if one morning (shortly after h*ll freezes over) the Thai government suddenly gives these people complete independance. But the violence doesn't stop. In addition to a little in-country "purification", suddenly the violence starts up in the areas that border this new nation ? Using the same justification that they are using now ?

Then what ? Bend over and let them stick it to you again, and again ? When do you finally say enough is enough ?

When it's your family that are the victims of one of these groups ? When it's your home or business that gets bombed ?

When do you draw the line ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it in for me....well you anyway.

i suppose you used to talk that way about the "commies"

[sriracha john]

"Sunai Phasuk of Human Rights Watch thinks that, for the newer radicalised insurgents, religion is far more important.

"

Religion is more important... I can just see it, in a far and distant land, during a time when men were men and camels got flowers for their birthdays, a bunch of Arabs sitting around a campfire in the desert laughing about some of the stuff they were writing down... "let's see, I know, let's tell them that if they die for our cause, they'll get a bunch of virgins in the afterlife." Wow, I can't believe that the folks who wrote the bible didn't think of that one.

Maybe they had ugly women. I've seen paintings of the Virgin Mary and I don't think I'd want to get stuck with dat!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Belittling and berating any religion isn't going to solve anything...

It only fuels the fire of hatred... and there already seems to be more than enough of that already on all sides...

Edited August 31, 2005 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

I do, however, agree with your assessment on the impact that Thai TV plays, galong.

It's also apparent for similar reasons along the borders with Laos and Cambodia that receive the signal with the people in those countries.

Economic frustration certainly plays a major role.

Edited August 31, 2005 by sriracha john