Bangkok Bank

[jfchandler]

I will say, one of the more curious and interesting online banking security measures I've seen is the one that's been implemented by HSBC Bank, at least for their U.S. accounts.... I don't know if their Asia accounts are comparable...

Not only do you have a regular online banking ID and password that you have to use each time with HSBC, but you also have a third phrase/term that must be entered by clicking your mouse to choose the correct characters on a digital on-screen keyboard that shows up on the bank's web log-in page, after you're typed in your user ID...

I can see that as being great for thwarting keylogging and such...since the only thing that can be recorded is mouse clicks, not individual keyboard letter/number keys... But on the other hand, if the user is storing that third phrase in some fashion on their PC or bookmarks or on paper where it can be accessed by others, then it strikes me as being no more secure than the regular ID/password approach.

The one thing I do in particular like about the BKK Bank setup is that anytime I log on, or should anyone else successfully log on using my information, I get an almost immediate email from the bank to my email address of record notifying me that there's been an online access of my account. That's a feature, on the other hand, I wish more U.S. banks would add or at least make available.

[Daveroc]

I was transfered to Singapore for a couple of years and while there I opened a HSBC account, but I still maintained my Bangkok Bank account because I knew I would be coming back.

When I was transfered back I thought I would transfer my HSBC account and close my BKKB account because it doesn't earn interest any way.

They told my I would have to close my Singapore account and open a new HSBC account in Thailand because the regulations were different. When I got here I found that you needed to have a minimum $20,000 US in order to have a interest earning foreigner account, so I gave up on that Idea and just maintained my BKKB account.

So foreigners earning interest is quite a revelation to me. Obviously SOMETHING must have changed that I'm not aware of.

Can anyone clarify?

It could be a minimum amount thing, but I don't think so, at least for my Bangkok Bank accounts as I only keep an average of around $5000 worth of baht (150,000 Baht) in my two Bankgok Bank accounts....transfer more in periodically as needed to maintain that average amount....and I may lower that average amount once I get a US debt card that doesn't charge a foreign transaction fee (I'm working on that...hopefully it's in the mail). But I also know I was getting interest payments on one account when it just had a couple thousand baht in it for about 9 months.

My Bangkok Bank savings account shows the last interest was paid on 17th December. It would appear to be 6 monthly. I note however that if I do not update my passbook regularly, the transactions appear to be bulked rather than showing individual items which may explain why some contributors believe they have not received interest

[ianguygil]

Ian, you blithely dismiss the personal questions process as being ineffective against trojans..that may be...

But I'd say they are effective against the broader threat of people's password and user id being compromised due to the various bad/unsafe computing practices I listed above. In part because the question you're asked and must answer this time is not the same question and answer you'll get next time, and because users don't need to write down or otherwise record those answers in order to remember them, unlike IDs and passwords, which removes a whole layer of risk.

Of course, I guess I'm being presumptious to think that a security safeguard that's been widely implemented throughout the entire U.S. banking industry...and in corporate and government sectors as well -- is something that might have some value... since Bangkok Bank hasn't done anything comparable to protect its user log-in process...

When I worked in government (apart from my time in the news media), our network adminstration required us to regularly change both our log-in user IDs and our passwords, across the entire many thousands of workers enterprise... And we couldn't even go back and use a previously used ID and password...it had to be new every time thru at least four or five cycles... BKK Bank, of course, never requires its customers to change their passwords or IDs.

I'm sure Bangkok Bank knows better, and is more secure with its limited rudimentary measures, than everyone else that's already adopted those additional security measures.

Jon, John, Jonny John Jon....

As usual a hack approach of mixing apples and oranges to confuse the reader. When you worked for the "Department of Hacks" you were an employee not a customer. All companies, especially banks, enforce such restrictions. It is far easier to do so with employees as they tend to have only 1 ID and password (in a competent shop with an Identity Management infrastructure). So forcing them to change is easy and smart business and it is very easy to give them a self service way of resetting their ID from a Bank controlled machine if they forget the new password.

With customers it is far more complex. We do not control them. They have many accounts with many institutions normally, so if each institution forces them to change their password on different dates at different intervals they would have a huge and complex combination to remember (customers should NEVER write their passwords down).

So we do what SCHWAB does (you always love to quote SCHWAB), whereby we send a message to customers reminding them to change their password. SCHWAB does this in a different way in that they take you to a screen which asks if you want to change your password or to keep it for another 6 months. The do not REQURE you to change your password. They give you an option. I do admit I like what they do and we may consider it. Add it to the work plan maybe...

I won't respond to the rest of the rant as it is pointless. I would say, however, that if you call our Contact Center they do ask certain questions for some items and have done for some years. On iBanking we rely on the SMS to the registered phone for strong authentication as I said before as IB is a particular market segment. It is a true 2 factor. Only problem at the minute is it works with Thai phones only and we are looking at that (commercial not a technical consideration).

[ianguygil]

I am not going to keep following this thread. Too busy right now.

If you have any questions please PM me. Thanks

Ian

[jfchandler]

Ian, as has been mentioned by others earlier in this thread, there are any number of U.S. banks that now REQUIRE their CUSTOMERS to change their LOGIN passwords (more common) and/or user IDs (less common) on a fixed time basis... I've got one that requires a password change every 3 months...others that require every 6 months....

Is it a pain.. yes... Do I do it.. yes... Because in fact doing so does improve the security for my accounts, along with a variety of other things I personally do (and don't do) in that regard.

You always like to insist that everything BKK Bank does is best in class and that BKK Bank uses the same international consultants as banks in other countries...

But as plainly is the case, your bank and the other Thai banks simply do not have the same kind of Internet banking security that some other institutions already have deployed....

And I suspect, that's because most of the Thai customer base probably is still more oriented toward bill paying and other activity thru ATM or phone...instead of online... So I can understand that your bank's attention would be more focused in other areas.

PS - I see that you once again are resorting to personal jibes because apparently you can't make a compelling factual argument that will stand on its own... It's a nasty habit that someone who thinks they are a professional really ought to break.

..

Edited January 17, 2011 by jfchandler

[jfchandler]

Earlier, I posted describing yet another online banking security feature that BKK Bank and the others don't use...and I referred to it, perhaps incorrectly, as a "site certificate."

This is where every time you log on, the bank's system presents you with a picture image and phrase that you've personally chosen in online banking, so when you see it you know you're really on your bank's web site...and not some kind of phishing or re-direct scam...

As best as I can tell, different banks have different terms they use to name this security feature. BofA calls it a "Site Key." Another bank I'm familiar with calls it a "Pass Mark". I'm sure other banks have varying names as well, but the principle is the same.. If you don't see your own image and phrase when you log-on, you're not on the REAL web site belonging to your bank...

Maybe Ian will add that one to the growing list of features he's already acknowledged that BKK Bank can improve on, like streamlining the process for user ID changes, allowing One Time Passwords to be sent to non-Thai mobile phones, and improving the bank's current password change prompts...

Edited January 17, 2011 by jfchandler

[mania]

If the original ID is numeric and you are expected to change to what you want I can see a security reason to not allow another change (by a third party gaining access and locking you out of your account while he drains it).

Exactly

[PattayaParent]

Asked me for a Work Permit.

I asked them how all the tourists have bank account with them and just got a smile.

All depends on the branch. In Bangkok I had to show my work permit when i opened a bank account. I opened an account in Surin with Bangkok Bank a few months ago and they only asked for my passport. Maybe check around, you might have better luck with a branch inside Big C, carefoure etc outside of Bangkok.

Main brannch Pattaya, where they have lots of tourists with no work permits and bank accounts so you'd think the staff would know a WP is not needed.

[12DrinkMore]

Interest rates and foreigners.

You can get 1.8% at Krungsri for a 7 month fixed deposit, less tax (I believe 15%)

And SCB offered me 2% for a six month fund account, no tax and automatic transfer to my savings account on maturity.

Not a huge amount, but every little bit counts. No difference, foreigners and Thais.

[jfchandler]

With the recent bump up in rates by the Bank of Thailand, I believe I've seen some fixed term deposit accounts being offered by Thai banks now that are paying 2.5%...

[12DrinkMore]

With the recent bump up in rates by the Bank of Thailand, I believe I've seen some fixed term deposit accounts being offered by Thai banks now that are paying 2.5%...

Bangkok Bank offer 2.5% over 3 years, but I think that the interest rates will slowly climb, so locking into three years at the moment I consider to be inadvisable.

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok%20Bank/Web%20Services/Rates/Pages/Deposit%20Rates.aspx

Krungsri at 1.8% annualised return over 7 months is the best deal I've found for my 800k retirement ticket.

[aurelius]

To clarify on the interest rate question..

The rate tables posted by the banks generically refer to "foreigner" or sometimes "non-residents". There is some confusion in the vocabulary used - what is typically being referred to is Non Resident Thai Baht accounts (NRBA) which are a category of accounts intended for recording investments moving in to the country. These accounts are counter service only (no ATM access, no internet) and each and every transaction is documented and reported to the central bank.

However the regular foreigner, although not having Thai residency, does operate a standard bank account which is considered in the same manner as Thais - eligible for interest, and subject to the same tax regulations. Accounts holding 800k would likely be best in a fixed term deposit (subject to tax), but which is also may be eligible for a tax certificate and rebate claim depending on total interest paid, other income etc.

The point about consolidated balance records - if the passbook is not updated - may account for interest credits not being visible. Some banks pay monthly for some accounts, most are still June/Dec, so check with a branch or check online to review the transactions from that period. Assume we are not talking current accounts here which obviously don't pay any interest.

[aurelius]

Asked me for a Work Permit.

I asked them how all the tourists have bank account with them and just got a smile.

All depends on the branch. In Bangkok I had to show my work permit when i opened a bank account. I opened an account in Surin with Bangkok Bank a few months ago and they only asked for my passport. Maybe check around, you might have better luck with a branch inside Big C, carefoure etc outside of Bangkok.

Main brannch Pattaya, where they have lots of tourists with no work permits and bank accounts so you'd think the staff would know a WP is not needed.

If you work, a WP is requested for identification. But it is not a requirement to be working or have a WP to open Internet banking at BKK Bank. Yhe website has info about this.

[yankee99]

Today i received my pin from bkk bank...This is for bualuang ibanking. You can easily go to settings and change your original user ID you get via emai and the 4 digit pin they send to you by post. I am not sure if they have other types of online accounts that do not let you do this..but bualuang ibanking does

[jfchandler]

Yankee, as I recently discovered, and as explained earlier in this thread.... for someone new to I-Banking with BKK Bank, yes, you can log-in using the bank-issued user ID and then go into settings and easily select your own choice for an ID to use for all subsequent log-ins.

HOWEVER, once you've set your own ID for the first time, that link for Change User ID under the Settings menu disappears entirely. And the only way to change your ID again subsequently is to call BKK Bank, and hope you find an online banking staff person knowledgeable enough to know they need to reset your profile, which apparently means basically erasing your self-selected ID...

Then you can go back online, log in again with the original bank issued ID they sent you when you opened the account (which people always should keep), and then select a new personal ID...

[PattayaParent]

Asked me for a Work Permit.

I asked them how all the tourists have bank account with them and just got a smile.

All depends on the branch. In Bangkok I had to show my work permit when i opened a bank account. I opened an account in Surin with Bangkok Bank a few months ago and they only asked for my passport. Maybe check around, you might have better luck with a branch inside Big C, carefoure etc outside of Bangkok.

Main brannch Pattaya, where they have lots of tourists with no work permits and bank accounts so you'd think the staff would know a WP is not needed.

If you work, a WP is requested for identification. But it is not a requirement to be working or have a WP to open Internet banking at BKK Bank. Yhe website has info about this.

I know that, but it seems the majority of staff in Thai banks don't as they tell you 'no WP, no account', even Kasikorn used to when they were Thai Farmer's Bank but they now seem to have trained their staff.

[ianguygil]

...For me internet banking is set up with a user name emailed and a password sent via thai mail system. I have never received my password via the mail...

...None seemed to know about opening a online account via ATM...

This is exactly the same thing that happened to me. I received my user name but never received the password. I waited for months until I eventually just lost interest.

I never heard anything about opening a online account via ATM. Maybe I should try that. Does anyone know how it's done?

I could probably go back to the bank and repeat the entire process but it will probably take months again, with no guarantee that it will ever work.

I've had a Bangkok Bank account for about 12 years and apart from this online banking fiasco I've been quite happy with they're service.

TimTang,

I am really sorry for not responding to this before.

You can find all the details on how do register for iBanking on our website.

Here is the link to the specific page in English -

http://www.bangkokbank.com/online%20banking/for%20personal/ibanking/how%20to%20apply/pages/apply%20via%20atm.aspx

Again, apologies for not responding sooner, my friend just pointed it out that I had not answered you. If you have any problems please PM me. I just had dropped this thread as I did not want to get back into the rantings of Mr Chandler who has insulted me a great deal in past encounters and I have no patience for ranting.

I hope this works. Feel free to let me know if you have problems. We have thousands of people doing this now so it seems to be pretty straight forward.

Ian

[jfchandler]

Thanks again for yet another unsolicited personal attack, Ian... I always know I can count on you to deliver...

It seems I always want to talk about banking and what Thai banks do and don't do, and compare their practices and policies with banks elsewhere (which you of course hate, because it shows BKK Bank's shortcomings... And then you always want to respond with personal attacks...

So I guess I should add, wasn't that you I saw picking up the garbage in the big green truck on my soi last night???

I just had dropped this thread as I did not want to get back into the rantings of Mr Chandler who has insulted me a great deal in past encounters and I have no patience for ranting.

Ian

Your definition of "ranting" of course being anyone who dares to question how Thai banks or BKK Bank in particular do their business or to suggest that they have a variety of ripoff policies aimed at Thais and farangs alike.

Edited January 19, 2011 by jfchandler

[wolf5370]

I asked for online banking. He said it's easier to set-up via the ATM.

I walked outside, fired up my new ATM card, and 3 minutes later...online banking.

if their policy hasn't changed in the last few weeks u might soon receive a note to show them your work permit

to continue with iBanking.

I've had iBanking since they started doing it - never been asked for a work permit. Openned it with my passport, letter of recommendation from a customer, letter of residency from the embassy and 20k. Added iBanking later when they started doing it at the same time I upgraded my ATM card for a Be1st debit card.

[Tywais]

This topic has turned into petty bickering and repetition. Let others have a chance to voice their opinions please.

As for myself, I have had an account with BB for over 25 years and iBanking pretty much since its inception. I've seen regular, positive changes in both functionality and security over time. Feedback recommending features/security are welcome as is personal experiences. Constantly saying the same thing isn't.

They even supply personal touches, at least for me as I have Exclusive Membership card, as my BB rep came to my office to personally give me a New Year's gift compliments of the bank.

[ianguygil]

Thank you to wolf5370 and Tywais for the feedback on the service.

I posted on another thread around New Year that we are more than happy to receive feedback, positive and negative, as long as it is in a constructive and polite form.

We are most definitely interested in ideas for improvement. Many people on this site are tech savvy and use other services in other countries, US, UK, Oz etc. So when you have time, please post or PM me and I will see if we can add it to the work list. I think most reasonable people understand the need to do these things in "releases" so that all changes can be tested and we can ensure that we have not introduced any "nasties" by mistake.

Please always remember that this is Thailand, that our primary responsibility is to serve the interests of the nation. So you will never get ideas from me of how to work around the rules and regulations. Please also remember that we are a commercial enterprise. We strive to have delighted customers, expats included.

And if any of you have a problem with any of our services you can PM me, post first if you want, and I will put you in touch with the people who can actually fix operations problems (I am not on the Operations side, I am IT and Strategy).

Thanks,

Ian

Edited January 19, 2011 by ianguygil

[livram]

ianguygil;

Thank you for the link on how to set up iBanking via ATM. It seems that setting up iBanking via ATM does NOT require a work permit. However, the Bangkok Bank website for iBanking states that a work permit is required.

Is a WORK PERMIT required for iBanking? or not?

I don't want to set up iBAnking if it just going to be canceled. I have been in Thailand 19 years but have never had a work permit.

[garycm]

I wouldn't quite agree with the OP's assessment... I'd instead say BKK Bank has its share of problems, just like most other places around these parts...

Let me give one recent personal example. As an existing BKK Bank account holder with their online banking, I decided after some time that I wanted to change my user ID for online banking... Easy right? Not quite...

When I first setup my account some years back, I was issued by the bank a long number as an initial user ID for online banking. And, I assume like most people, I immediately changed the number to something of a personal ID for me, and had been happily using the same ID I'd chosen until lately, when I decided I wanted to change it... And there began the problems...

Started with the normal thing you might do...went into the settings of their online banking menu...looking for link to change user ID... None to be found.. Link for changing password, but no link for user ID at all... First attempt fails...

Next step...go into my local branch and talk to the staff at the account desk, thinking as is usual with BKK Bank, I'd need to fill out some paper forms along with providing my passport and bank book... First check with a lady officer... she's not sure how to do it... muddles around a bit... and finally passes me to a second, male officer... Second attempt fails...

Next step.. male officer tells me in decent English that I can change the ID myself online in online banking. I assure him I've looked and see no such link... He insists and finally offers to show me on his own PC by logging onto his BKK Bank account while I watch... He does...muddles around in the settings menu...can't of course find any user ID link... So he then gets on the phone... Third attempt fails...

Next step...after some time... and several phone calls to other staff elsewhere in the bank, he finally gets off the phone and asks if I have the original number the bank issued me when I set up online banking... I said yes..I have it at home.. He tells me the only way to access (see) the user ID change link in the settings menu is to log on using not my own online banking ID, but use the number in place of my ID... OK..fair enough, take that advice and go home and try it... Of course, it doesn't work. Fourth attempt fails...

Next step... get on the phone again, this time with BKK Bank's online banking support desk...and reach a female CSR who's obviously clueless... I won't bore everyone with all the details of what she told me..most of which was wrong... But her advice included using the number as the login ID and my bank PIN (instead of the password) to log-in.. Try that and various other things she's suggested... None of them work.. Fifth attempt fails...

By this point, I'm getting more than a bit exasperated... Ask to speak with her supervisor...who turns out to be a decent and apparently knowledgeable sort... After retracing some of the various and failed steps and efforts already recounted above... she finally says...OK... we need to "reset our system" so you can log-in with your original number as log-in ID... Wait a couple minutes...she comes back on the line and presto... log in successfully with the original bank number and my regular password...

Now, throughout the entire process and all the prior staff I'd spoken with, no one had said anything about needing to "reset" their system or done so, until I finally got to this last woman... As best as I can gather from her, once you've chosen your own online banking ID, in order to then go back and use the original bank issued ID number instead, they apparently need to kind of erase your own self selected ID out of the system... And then once you've logged on successfully with the original bank # ID, the link comes up in the settings menu allowing you to once again pick your own online banking ID...

All in all, the process from start to finish took some hours of my time and all the various contacts listed above... When I pointed out to the lady supervisor in the end that most other banks I've dealt with make it easy to change user IDs online once the user has verified their identity by successfully logging onto online banking (usually it's just a link to choose similar to BKK Bank's link for changing passwords), I got silence as a response... No comment from the bank folks about that...

All I can say is... changing an online banking ID shouldn't take the better part of a day, multiple phone calls and a visit to the local branch... And people really ought to change their online banking IDs periodically just as a security measure... But apparently, that's all lost on BKK Bank...

Hi, so is your on line banking working now? i used it but every now and thenwhen I log in, it says wrong password. Have to call BKK them give me a new password and it works 2 times. Next time same text, wrong pasword. I called them 4 times in 2 months and every so and then the same problem. I gave up.

[jfchandler]

Gary, once I spent half of a day working my way thru a half dozen clueless BKK Bank staff members in central Bangkok (not out in the sticks) who didn't know how to correctly handle my simple request to change my user ID, I finally found one bank employee who did, and she fixed everything in about 5 minutes time. After that, I had my new user ID and everything has been working fine ever since with my online banking.

In my experience, BKK Bank's online banking system itself usually works pretty well, although they were a bit slow to make their online banking log-in process smoothly compatible with other browsers besides Internet Explorer, but that seems to have been straightened out now. Unfortunately, it seems the staff who have to do the human transactions aren't nearly as efficient as the technology available to them and the bank's customers.

As to the problem you relate, that sounds pretty strange, and I've never experienced anything like that... Can't imagine what would be causing that... Unless someone else has access to your online banking log-in and is resetting your password. Maybe TV member Ian here, who has some connection to BKK Bank, can suggest some ways to try to resolve your problem.

I'm assuming you're already thought about the simple things... like the fact that passwords usually are case sensitive, so you want to make sure you don't have the caps lock key turned on by mistake, or things like that.

[mania]

Is a WORK PERMIT required for iBanking? or not?

No work permit is required to open ibanking

I think we are very lucky to have ianguygil here answering questions.

I do not see any other reps from any other Thai bank doing teh same.

Thanks ianguygil !

[ianguygil]

ianguygil;

Thank you for the link on how to set up iBanking via ATM. It seems that setting up iBanking via ATM does NOT require a work permit. However, the Bangkok Bank website for iBanking states that a work permit is required.

Is a WORK PERMIT required for iBanking? or not?

I don't want to set up iBAnking if it just going to be canceled. I have been in Thailand 19 years but have never had a work permit.

I am in California on business this week, so my responses will be delayed. Sorry.

No, Work Permit is helpful but not required.

Please see this link

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Online%20Banking/For%20Personal/iBanking/FAQ/Pages/Services%20and%20Application.aspx#3#

Bottom line is if you've a resident Baht account you can have Bualuang iBanking. From the site link above ""*Only foreign nationals with a resident Baht account holding a non-immigrant visa along with a valid work permit or certificate of residence are eligible to apply for Bualuang iBanking."

PM me if you need some help please.

Thanks,

Ian

[ianguygil]

Is a WORK PERMIT required for iBanking? or not?

No work permit is required to open ibanking

I think we are very lucky to have ianguygil here answering questions.

I do not see any other reps from any other Thai bank doing teh same.

Thanks ianguygil !

Thanks for the positive feedback. I do this in my spare time to try to help out and it is always nice to know it is appreciated.

[jfchandler]

On a policy basis, that detail below would appear to exclude most farang retirees in Thailand from access to BKK Bank's online banking.

Retirees generally cannot have a work permit, since work is not allowed under non-imm retirement visas and retirement extensions of stay. And, certificates of residence issued by the Thailand Revenue Department pertain to people who are filing income tax returns in Thailand.

Please see this link

http://www.bangkokba...lication.aspx#3#

Bottom line is if you've a resident Baht account you can have Bualuang iBanking. From the site link above

"*Only foreign nationals with a resident Baht account holding a non-immigrant visa along with a valid work permit or certificate of residence are eligible to apply for Bualuang iBanking."

[Tywais]

And, certificates of residence issued by the Thailand Revenue Department pertain to people who are filing income tax returns in Thailand.

Not sure why you are referring to the Revenue Department as certificate of residence can be obtained from either ones Embassy/Consulate or from immigration. The WP works as the certificate of residence, aka address verification. Same requirements for getting a Thai driver's license.

A residence certificate is a document made by immigration to certify where a foreigner lives. That document can be used for many things: getting a Thai driver's license buying a car, getting a bank account. Any place that will request a proof of where you live. Embassies can also require that document to show that you live in Thailand

Source: Thailaw Online

[jfchandler]

Tywais, this is the Certificate of Residence that I am familiar with...

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/21978.0.html

If there are other versions that BKK Bank will accept, I'd happily stand corrected...

Maybe Ian can clarify just which versions BKK Bank will accept and issued by whom...