Thai Writing

[Nouf]

Looking for some help, although i am sure this will apply to most that are trying to read and write Thai

Firstly is there information on the internet on the new Thai script, as i am pulling my hair trying to work out the new signs, is there a reference somewhere??

Secondly, does anyone have any tips other that actually trying to remember every single word for the start and endings

The various TH,CH, KH, & S sounds at the beginning of a word and likewise the endings, ie N T, K & P etc

I am tring to write what i hear, and getting the endings wrong, although it sounds correct its not the correct spelling, and other than actually trying to remember every word (which i think Thai children are doing at school) i am at a loss to try and find something to work with, reading it seems is easier than spelling

Is there general consonants that are used, i know น is used fro most N endings, but trying to get an idea on what the common start letters are and what the common endings are, or find a system that helps me remember

Thanks

[pjclark1]

Many Thais don't know the correct ending letters either, but they can read the correct spellings.

As a lady once told me, you write Thai like a farm worker!

PS

Quite a lot of 'n' endings have raw rua ร instead of naw noo น

For example

kuan = should do = ควร

[dvc]

Sounds like you're all over the place. You need some graded lessons to follow. My suggestion is to follow the reading portions of each lesson at:

http://www.lyndonhil...i/CONTENTS.html This is the entire text of the book, 'Fundamentals of the Thai Language'. This is how I learned to read and write, and it worked. However, you'll need the sounds of each consonant and vowel, recorded to a CD or MP3 player. There's no point learning to read and write if you don't have the sounds correct. I can't stress the importance of this enough. You could also ask a Thai native speaker to read out the sound of each symbol and then (you) repeat what you hear. This is probably a more cumbersome way of doing it...better to use a recording of a native Thai speaker.

There's a tone rules table, in PDF format, attached to this post. I recommend you download it as you'll need it towards the end of reading writing lessons.

Firstly, is there information on the internet on the new Thai script, as i am pulling my hair trying to work out the new signs, is there a reference somewhere??

I'm interested to know about the, "new Thai script". Exactly what are you referring to?

Tone Rules Table.pdf

Edited January 18, 2011 by dvc

[Peppy]

There is no "new Thai script"--I think that must be a misunderstanding or mis-statement of some sort. There was an effort in the 1940's to reform Thai spelling and whittle down consonants and their respective sounds to a one-one relationship, but it only lasted about two years--the only part of it that stuck was the use of ค instead of ฅ, and ข instead of ฃ. The script itself, of course, remains the same.

As for how to remember what words are spelled with what letters, the best advice I can give is read, read, read! By seeing words over and over again, you should be able to get a sense of what's right and what's wrong when you're writing--just like with English vowels.

[Nouf]

Sounds like you're all over the place. You need some graded lessons to follow. My suggestion is to follow the reading portions of each lesson at:

http://www.lyndonhil...i/CONTENTS.html This is the entire text of the book, 'Fundamentals of the Thai Language'. This is how I learned to read and write, and it worked. However, you'll need the sounds of each consonant and vowel, recorded to a CD or MP3 player. There's no point learning to read and write if you don't have the sounds correct. I can't stress the importance of this enough. You could also ask a Thai native speaker to read out the sound of each symbol and then (you) repeat what you hear. This is probably a more cumbersome way of doing it...better to use a recording of a native Thai speaker.

There's a tone rules table, in PDF format, attached to this post. I recommend you download it as you'll need it towards the end of reading writing lessons.

Firstly, is there information on the internet on the new Thai script, as i am pulling my hair trying to work out the new signs, is there a reference somewhere??

I'm interested to know about the, "new Thai script". Exactly what are you referring to?

Hi, thanks for your reply

I got not issues with the sounds or rules, infact i found them quite easy to understand, the issue i have is trying to work out the actual correct letter on the start or ending of a letter, ie the T or P sound or CH sound etc on the start of a word

For example the Kh sound has 4 letters to use

example ฆ่า & ค่า

I thought there might be a system that i could try and learn, other than completey trying to remember loads of spellings,

Yes even the Thais i know have issues trying to remember which goes where, yet they can read it, which is the issue i have, i can read a word and work it out from the context of the story line or paragraph

The thai script, i guess i called it "new" if you see a new signs these days its not like what i am being taught or learnt, ie if you pick up a leaflet in a store like Siam Paragon, its got letters that although they are thai text, they are not something i have seen much before when i was learning to read and write

So at some stage these letters changed to some format that thais understand, but i have yet to read up much about them

I got a leaft about a condo, and there are letters that are not what i have seen

So is there a script for these???

The obvious example, is that you look at the letter น but on a leaflet it looks like a U

i picked up a leafet about True internet, i like to use stuff like this to practice reading

Thanks

Edited January 18, 2011 by Nouf

[LazyYogi]

The only real system to make it easier to remember which of the many "TH", "KH", "S" letters etc. to use is to have studied Sanskrit before studying Thai.

Sanskrit has a wider range of sounds, and all those letters were originally pronounced differently.

So then you have to be able to recognize the Sanskrit roots that the Thai words are based off of, and it is easier to remember the correct spelling.

[Puschl]

The thai script, i guess i called it "new" if you see a new signs these days its not like what i am being taught or learnt, ie if you pick up a leaflet in a store like Siam Paragon, its got letters that although they are thai text, they are not something i have seen much before when i was learning to read and write

The keyword here is 'font' (compare Times New Roman versus Lucida Handwriting for 'Roman' characters).

The 'modern' style thai fonts are indeed difficult to read. Doug Cooper has written a very helpful article on the subject (font comparison, what characteristics are important in recognizing the characters). See also this TV thread.

[bmore99]

The keyword here is 'font' (compare Times New Roman versus Lucida Handwriting for 'Roman' characters).

The 'modern' style thai fonts are indeed difficult to read. Doug Cooper has written a very helpful article on the subject (font comparison, what characteristics are important in recognizing the characters). See also this TV thread.

Since I started writing with a handwriting similar to the 1.05_tushand font, I can also read most commercial fonts. Both do the same, they leave out all unnecessary curls. I can now even read what Thai people write.

For download http://www.f0nt.com/ (1.05_tushand in on page 60)

[Nouf]

The thai script, i guess i called it "new" if you see a new signs these days its not like what i am being taught or learnt, ie if you pick up a leaflet in a store like Siam Paragon, its got letters that although they are thai text, they are not something i have seen much before when i was learning to read and write

The keyword here is 'font' (compare Times New Roman versus Lucida Handwriting for 'Roman' characters).

The 'modern' style thai fonts are indeed difficult to read. Doug Cooper has written a very helpful article on the subject (font comparison, what characteristics are important in recognizing the characters). See also this TV thread.

Thats exactly what i am after, it actually makes sense scanning the PDF, i am going to go out over the weekend and take photos of signs, then sit down and work through those with the PDF

Many thanks

[CNXman2551]

The "Thai-English/English-Thai Dictionary With Classifiers and Tones for English Speakers" compiled by Benjawan Poomsan Becker and Chris Pirazzi, published by Paiboon Publishing includes the different fonts for the Thai consonants; the begninning sound and ending sound, if there is one; and many other features that make this a good resource for me. I refer to it when I see a font I do not recognize and it has not failed me yet.

Edited January 23, 2011 by CNXman2551

[Richard W]

I got not issues with the sounds or rules, infact i found them quite easy to understand, the issue i have is trying to work out the actual correct letter on the start or ending of a letter, ie the T or P sound or CH sound etc on the start of a word

For example the Kh sound has 4 letters to use

example ฆ่า & ค่า

I thought there might be a system that i could try and learn, other than completey trying to remember loads of spellings,

At the start of a syllable:

k => ก

kh low, rising => ข

kh mid, high, dead falling => ค/ฆ. ค is overwhlemingly commoner.

kh live falling => Percentage rule is ค with mai ek. For a lot of words spelt with low consonant plus mai ek, the etymologically correct spelling is high consonant plus mai tho. ฆ่า and เฒ่า are egregious examples.

Note that there are only three choices for /kh/.

Similar rules apply for initial /ch/ and /ph/. For the dentals, the occurrences of Indian retroflex (oral) stops (ฎ ฏ ฐ ฑ ฒ) just have to be learnt. Apart from these exceptions, the rules for /th/ again depend on the tones.

As a general rule, Indic-only consonants do not occur with tone marks. The exceptions are mistaken etymologies and the effect of syllable final ห์ (which can work back into compounds, e.g. เสน่หา).

For final consonants, it may be worth remarking that Indic loans don't end in ด or บ, and that no Thai word ends in ผ or ฉ.

Lazy Yogi mentioned knowing Sanskrit as a way of knowing the spellings. Unfortunately, many of Sanskrit's phonological laws are of very limited use, especially as Indic /a/ is sometimes dropped in the middle of a word. RUKI has very limited use, for one is still left with a choice between ศ and ษ. There is the rule that a nasal has the same place of articulation as the following stop consonant, so that sometimes helps you to choose how to write /n/, as in บัณฑิตย์. Another rule is that adjacent stop consonants must have the same voicing in Indic languages, so either they are both high or middle or both are low. Furthermore, only the second can be aspirated in Indic, so high or the second low consonant in Thai. There is, I believe, a rule in Sanskrit and Pali that dental and retroflex stops may not occur together in a cluster - this may occasionally help.

One Sanskrit rule that works fairly well (in Indic loans) is that any /n/ occurring later than ร or ษ in a word must be ณ unless a dental, palatal or retroflex consonant intervenes. A notable exception is ทรมาน - the ร is unetymological!

Finally, there is a tendency for final /n/ to spelt ญ in Khmer loans to mark the word as being of Khmer origin - the final consonant in Khmer tends not to be ญ!