Is Chiang Mai Generally Safe For Foreigners?

[Diablo Bob]

Wrong side of town? Methinks maybe a different country.....

Motorcycle gangs, well when the Harley groups show up every year, that's the only "Gang" i have seen. I have a hard time visualizing a "Gang" screaming around town on their Honda Click's.

Motogangs no Harleys but young locals on small bikes, after mignight especially west side of town were students are walking after going out etc. Thais call them 'gansters'.

OK, I get it..... the whole city is unsafe becuse of a section of town out by the University has a Honda Click gang swiping purses.

[bangkokcitylimits]

When per motobike from town to Chiang Mai v.v. I survive average 2 x 5 "murder attempts" on 1 day. The roads do Hangdong, to Mae Rim and to Borsang, and parts of the inner ringroad are real killers, glad I don't need them !

ps, this is not me

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Leaving this heavily polluted and dangerous shtihole was the best move ever, also finally released of 24 hours irritated eyes and a sore throat.

Ask locals in Chiangrai what they think of Chiang Mai...

If it was March, they would probably mention the much clearer air. Relatively speaking.

(Chiang Rai suffers even worse than Chiang Mai does during March)

[ramrod711]

I think that the "motorcycle gang ripping off handbags" story came about when a ladyboy couldn't supress her jealousy at seeing a coveted farang's (white person-foreigner) Louis Vuitton Speedy Cube Bag. The story that I heard told that the thief returned and dropped the contents with a shy smile and a sweet wai.

I've been here six weeks and I've been scammed once, at Top's supermarket by the motorbike parking attendant who demanded 35baht (about $1.15US), (there is no such fee--talk about petty theft--it's sort of funny) other than that I feel comfortable walking anywhere--even down dark streets at night.

I've gone through six tanks of petrol in my motorbike and have yet to see a "motorcycle gang." The worst that I have endured was a scowl from a shopkeeper after I looked at a piece of "silk" (it was most likely rayon) and the price went from 10,000 baht, to 4,000 as I said thank you and was leaving.

I have found CM to be one of the nicest, friendliest places on earth, even the neighborhood dogs are polite!

Here's a few examples:

One day, I had left my motorbike parked on the sidewalk at the Tom Yamlai market alongside the Ping river. I intentionally left my helmet (I've come to the conclusion that helmets are rarely stolen) but I accidentally left the keys in the ignition--yikes! Two hours later, the bike was just where I left it. A thousand people must have walked by it and saw that the keys were in it.

Another Saturday I parked my motorbike on the street that the Sunday Market occcurs at around 2pm (with my helmet). What I did not know was that was the street that turned into the Sunday Night Market. I returned later, around 9pm to find the street closed to traffic, full of thousands of people and my bike was not where I left it. I had assumed it had been towed by the police so I started walking to get a ride home and there, in the middle of the throngs of people was my bike, parked in the middle of the road. Amazing...a police officer came over and gave me an escort out of the Night Bazaar. In America the shop owner whose space I had offended would have at a minimum had it towed, probably after trashing it.

Vibe's post is right on! Crossing streets as a pedestrian is about the most dangerous thing to do here. Trying to run makes it worse! The concept is hard to believe but it's true. Crossing busy streets can be deadly and though it may seem odd, moving slowly gives the "cowboy" that just came zooming around the corner on his motorbike room to maneuver around you. The same concept goes for entering traffic on a motorbike--never see an open spot and zoom into it--because there might be a cowboy on a bike going 70mph...

Many condemn CM's drivers but I have found that although the rules of the road are at best "odd" (orange light means go very fast; red light means go faster for 30 seconds, pedestrian red lights are there for decoration only and road direction is really only "suggested" (opposite direction on occasion is ok) and sometimes sidewalks are quite ok to drive on) that CM's drivers are efficient, highly skilled, and where in America actions that would routinely be met with extreme road rage here are simply allowed. The real risk I believe are drunk drivers and foreigners who open their driver side doors without looking, thus impaling a motobike driver. Motorbikes are cheap to rent and absolutely wonderful for getting around on--I would not think of driving a car here though.

I'm a country boy from New Hampshire, USA and I'd rather die than go to New York, or Boston, or LA, but I'm quite happy and feel quite safe here in CM.

a thai friend who's son was just starting residency at a local hospital felt compelled to buy his son a car. he told me that because his son had to work late at night, he was concerned for his safety. it seems that some young men do like to gang up and carry chains that they use to whip people off of their motorbikes. i have lived here for 5 years and never had a problem, but i'm not riding a motorbike early in the a.m.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I never seem to have any problems personally.

About two weeks ago on my bicycle I was waiting for the light by the police box at Rin Kham intersection and laying on the ground was a knuckle duster. I was tempted to pick it and claim it as a souvenir but opted not too.

Not sure if this should be more or less disconcerting than when I see bullet casings on side of canal road.

I imagine if you run with the wrong crowd or seem to find trouble then it's out there.

I grew up just outside Washington D.C. when it was the murder capital of the US and never had any problems. Hard to really gauge danger.

Based on the carnage I have seen though its the traffic accidents that are to be wary of in CM.

Edited January 20, 2011 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[wolf5370]

Well, never had a problem here with crime. My car was hit 5 times ina eyar - all while stationary (once with me in it at a crossing turning right, stopped, when some idiot decided to overtake on the right and hit me - stationary - side on - like a big red saloon side on is hard to see!).

Its the only place I have stumbled about hald cut at 4 am and felt completely safe. Left my crash helmet unlocked on my bike daily - even outside shopping malls. Left stuff on my bike and in the basket when hiring a moped. Left the keys in the lock several time by accident. If I had done any of that at home in London, I can guarantee they would be gone when I got back.

I was waved down by a cop a while back. I was going too fast. He shook his head and told me in Thai "Slow Down" and then waved me on - no fine - no extortion - no ticket.

Some people say they have problems - I think some people would have problems in heaven! I think of all the holiday destinations you could choose Thailand, and in particular the North, is the least likely place for you to walk into violent crime. It will be hot, hummid and maybe still a little smokey (though mostly be over by then - last year I didn't even notice the smog personally!).

However, beware that for a couple of days in April you will be shot at and have bombs thrown at you - especially around Thapae Gate - that's water psitols and water bombs of course!

[jsflynn603]

Chiang Mai has an average of 7 traffic accidents an hour with everyday people killed (source: traffic police) .

The traffic statistics are quite astounding.

Overall Thailand is one of the three worst countries for traffic fatalities in the world (along with China/Korea) states one source but the following map says otherwise and points to Iraq, Iran, Yemen and Angola as being much worse.

See: Road traffic accidents world map - Death - WHO2004.svg (search if you are interested)

Depending upon the source, the rate of traffic deaths run just about 21 per 100,000 people annually. (The Bangkok Post once quoted 40+ but that seems to be an outlier)

Chiang Mai has about 160,000 people so that runs to about 3360 deaths annually. But these deaths do not count deaths that occur in hospital later so the real number is most likely 40-60% higher. This brings us to about 5,000 traffic deaths annually for Chiang Mai (the city, not the entire province) or about 14 deaths per day or about one ever other hour. Yikes.

Close to half the deaths involve accidents where alcohol was an issue. Speed, illegal overtaking illegal passing was a major factor.

Those aged 15-27 were most at risk, double that of those aged 27+.

Seat belt use and helmet use is extremely low. A contributing factor is that there is a poor emergency response especially for dealing with trauma.

Yikes--I already wear a decent helmet for my motorbike, I had better go and install a seat belt on my motorbike too...

Edited January 20, 2011 by jsflynn603

[LJW]

I have lived in Thailand for MANY years, and I have never felt unsafe in Chiang Mai for ANY reason

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I have lived in Thailand for MANY years, and I have never felt unsafe in Chiang Mai for ANY reason

if you haven't had some feelings of being unsafe on the roads then it might be time to consider getting one of those C.A.T. scans

Your self preservation circuit may have come unplugged

[Priceless]

Chiang Mai has an average of 7 traffic accidents an hour with everyday people killed (source: traffic police) .

The traffic statistics are quite astounding.

Overall Thailand is one of the three worst countries for traffic fatalities in the world (along with China/Korea) states one source but the following map says otherwise and points to Iraq, Iran, Yemen and Angola as being much worse.

See: Road traffic accidents world map - Death - WHO2004.svg (search if you are interested)

Depending upon the source, the rate of traffic deaths run just about 21 per 100,000 people annually. (The Bangkok Post once quoted 40+ but that seems to be an outlier)

Chiang Mai has about 160,000 people so that runs to about 3360 deaths annually. But these deaths do not count deaths that occur in hospital later so the real number is most likely 40-60% higher. This brings us to about 5,000 traffic deaths annually for Chiang Mai (the city, not the entire province) or about 14 deaths per day or about one ever other hour. Yikes.

Close to half the deaths involve accidents where alcohol was an issue. Speed, illegal overtaking illegal passing was a major factor.

Those aged 15-27 were most at risk, double that of those aged 27+.

Seat belt use and helmet use is extremely low. A contributing factor is that there is a poor emergency response especially for dealing with trauma.

Yikes--I already wear a decent helmet for my motorbike, I had better go and install a seat belt on my motorbike too...

I'm afraid you need to brush up on your maths If the rate of traffic deaths is 21 per 100,000 people and Chiang Mai has 160,000 inhabitants that would mean ~34 deaths per year in the city, NOT 3,360 like you claim

Incidentally, according to recent reports in the press, there are about 11,000 traffic deaths per year in the whole of Thailand. Much too high but nowhere near what you claim!

/ Priceless

[LJW]

I have lived in Thailand for MANY years, and I have never felt unsafe in Chiang Mai for ANY reason

if you haven't had some feelings of being unsafe on the roads then it might be time to consider getting one of those C.A.T. scans

Your self preservation circuit may have come unplugged

I have driven here for 26 years, never an accident, never feeling unsafe on the roads here

If you feel unsafe on the road here, stay out of my way!

[Sparkles]

I have lived in Thailand for MANY years, and I have never felt unsafe in Chiang Mai for ANY reason

Try driving on Hang Dong Rd at 8am or 5pm, and in addition try making, a u turn,you might just change your mind !

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I drive on the Hang Dong road every day around that time. What's wrong with it? There's traffic lights and even some traffic police around to help things move along.

I guess nobody remembers when that road was single carriageway.. Now that was interesting. No U turns of course, everyone just turned everywhere.

Edited January 20, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Sparkles]

I drive on the Hang Dong road every day around that time. What's wrong with it? There's traffic lights and even some traffic police around to help things move along.

I guess nobody remembers when that road was single carriageway.. Now that was interesting. No U turns of course, everyone just turned everywhere.

There are only 2 sets of traffic lights between Samoeng turn off and Airport Plaza. If you come onto the highway,go south for a 100 metres or so to make a u turn to get to Chiang Mai its a nightmare with anything up to a dozen cars and twice that number of motor bikes all with the same intention of doing a u'ee. Police directing traffic ? great idea ! we have seen one in the last month but we have seen 2 seperate accidents in the last fortnight with motor cycles upended into the curb with riders being loaded into ambulances. Are we talking about the same road ?

[nikster]

That's what I figured, but my husband started to get pretty concerned getting these daily e-mails with "death and destruction and turmoil" as the main news-makers.

Interestingly, the news stories we get from the USA here are also about death, destruction and turmoil. Some dude shooting people at random in Arizona, <deleted>. If I went by news reports then i'd never visit any country, because 'news about faraway places' almost by definition is about death and destruction. Otherwise it wouldn't be news, I guess.

Accurate news would be:

999,999 pages of "noodle vendor was nice to his customers today - again!" and similar items.

Then 1 page where somebody got murdered.

Only such a newspaper wouldn't just be unwieldy, it would also not sell any copies. So it gets reduced to just the 1 murder story, and people snap it up.

That's how it is for news world-wide. For unbiased, accurate, and up to date information, I go to the sports section. Everything else is BS.

[elektrified]

One day, I had left my motorbike parked on the sidewalk at the Tom Yamlai market alongside the Ping river. I intentionally left my helmet (I've come to the conclusion that helmets are rarely stolen) but I accidentally left the keys in the ignition--yikes! Two hours later, the bike was just where I left it. A thousand people must have walked by it and saw that the keys were in it.

Consider yourself dam_n lucky. Motorcycle theft is rampant here!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I drive on the Hang Dong road every day around that time. What's wrong with it? There's traffic lights and even some traffic police around to help things move along.

I guess nobody remembers when that road was single carriageway.. Now that was interesting. No U turns of course, everyone just turned everywhere.

There are only 2 sets of traffic lights between Samoeng turn off and Airport Plaza.

There are three: Rachapruek Rd, Middle Ring Underpass, and the Small road to the airport (where Tesco is). And then finally Airport Plaza intersection of course.

If you come onto the highway,go south for a 100 metres or so to make a u turn to get to Chiang Mai its a nightmare with anything up to a dozen cars and twice that number of motor bikes all with the same intention of doing a u'ee. Police directing traffic ? great idea ! we have seen one in the last month but we have seen 2 seperate accidents in the last fortnight with motor cycles upended into the curb with riders being loaded into ambulances. Are we talking about the same road ?

Guess so.. I don't do too many U turns on it though. Can't you avoid a U turn, or do it at the next set of traffic lights even if it means driving a couple hundred meters more? (Would depend where exactly you hit the Hang Dong road.)

[millwall_fan]

Chiang Mai is one of the safest places in the world. The only thing you need to watch on safety is some of the posters on this forum.

Ever been in Chiang Mai ? I really wonder...

Chiang Mai has an average of 7 traffic accidents an hour with everyday people killed (source: traffic police) . I had 3 accidents myself all due to stupid driving of locals, 2 times were a lucky escape. At night motorcycle gangs are ripping handbags of ladies shoulders. Leaving this heavily polluted and dangerous shtihole was the best move ever, also finally released of 24 hours irritated eyes and a sore throat.

Ask locals in Chiangrai what they think of Chiang Mai...

The good thing, Thai cities have no ghetto's where you feel unsafe. The only time some idiot tried (failed) to mug me was in my own city, Amsterdam.

:jap:

At first I thought this was your zany Dutch humour, but from your subsequent posts it's clear you mean it!!

Are you sure you haven't been ripped off by a bargirl at any stage? or found out your TGF is already married? or mistakenly gone to bed with a lady boy? Because other than that, your views seem way over the top!

Sure there is some trouble between Thais around Chaing Puak and one or two other areas, and the Katoeys can be a pain as ThaiPauly says, but the OP's question is whether Chiang Mai is safe and apart from a traffic problem, which let's face it most modern cities have got and small numbers of local kids having the occasional brawl - again, tell me the town on this planet where that doesn't happen! and a pollution problem that is seriouso for aobut 6 or 7 weeks in March and April, This is a very safe city to live in, both in terms of the locals who live here and expat community. And I live I one of the 'Danger Zones' - Loi Kroh Rd!

[kjhbigv]

I have lived here 3 years, in town and out of town....I ride a bike and drive a car daily in and around the city at all hours and never seem to have a problem....never had a problem at all....it's all about observation, anticipating and adapting to the road conditions.

Once you accept and understand the 'rules' it's fine, you get used to (and are expecting) cars and bikes coming at you on the wrong side of the road etc etc!

I think a lot of westerners expect the same degree of driving standards as the west.....but hey....we are not in the west! Personally, I prefer driving here than when I lived in East London, everything is kind of predictable, if you use your senses!

As for Chiang Mai being safe.....never had any grief and I spend a lot of time down Loh Kroh at all hours! The only grief I ever see is p**ssed up westerners either fighting with each other or being completely obnoxious to a Thai and then they get hit with a shoe or something.....I should add only in girly bars!

The rest of Chiang Mai is a lot safer than most large towns in the UK with regards to personal safety and theft etc.

[sfokevin]

I have no fear of being assaulted or bothered here by anyone - One of the safest and friendliest places on earth in that regard...

The one caveat I would make - Watch the traffic!!!...

Realize that they drive on the opposite side of the road here - so if you cross a street look to your opposite way FIRST!... Also realize that the driver is sitting on the opposite seat in the car and many have tinted windshields that do not allow you to make eye contact with an oncoming driver...

Also do not assume (As in the West) that you as a pedestrian walking on a crosswalk, driveway or SIDEWALK have the right of way!!!... :jap:

Edited January 20, 2011 by sfokevin

[thrilled]

The one guy talked about chiang mai having alot of auto accidents.Like new york don't have any.

Chiang mai,the biggest problem there is there are to many foreigners there.They have just about ruined the city.About 10 or 15 years ago you could buy things at low prices,not anymore.Prices are around the same as bangkok ,maybe some things are more expensive.But safety,it is A safe city.

[drfang]

to the Op,

yes chaing mai is a perfectly safe place to live in or visit. March is a bit dirty, and April is HOT, hopefully it wont be as bad as last year, when i Boiled. The traffic rules , or more likely ,customs get a bit of getting used to. But if you are not planning on hopping one a bike you dont have to worry. i have not heard of much or any violence against ferang visitors here, its certinally not endemic. A few cases of drunk ferang in Thar peah road, where the girly bars are, getting into strife over disputed check bins, or fights over girls. i have been visiting CM for 12 years, and have lived here now for over 2 years, and, am pleased to say that I have never had a single problem. CM is a great city, loads of history to explore, great places to eat, both Thai and ferang, for all budgets. Dress well, wash often,not like a smelly backpacker, learn a few Thai phrases, behave with quiet dignity, and you will have a wonderfull visit.

All the best,

DrF

[wolf5370]

Well there you go. You ask about it being safe - from a violence angle - and all anyone comes up with is the dangers of the roads - so that should pretty much answer you question.

[MacWalen]

For me it is super safe. Spent a lot of time in CM and never a slightest problem. As good as it gets.

[GUANO]

How safe is it though? Three pages safe?

[rakchaingmai]

If you go looking for trouble you will find if you don't you won't thats the rule all over the world.

[richard10365]

It's as safe as any place else. Just remember, if you stick your hand in a fire, you will get burned. Don't do anything stupid and you should be ok.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

How safe is it though? Three pages safe?

Yeah. The main issue may be that it's so safe it's actually boring. This may be why tourist numbers are down.. why go to Chiang Mai? Ultra safe, ultra boring. It's like a cheaper version of Zurich.

We are silently jealous of places like Pattaya, where at least stuff happens, occasionally.

[Yelly]

WOWOWOW! Well, it looks as if it's exactly how I assumed it to be in Chiang Mai. We know about the burn season, the heat, Songkran (will be missing it by a hair), and traffic, and if that's the worst...BRING IT ON!

[realthaideal]

Depends who you date while here. For the new people, watch yer wallets.