Red-Shirt Rally Alert For Bangkok On Sunday

[lounger]

Why they only warn US citizens... ? And the rest of us are what exactly... ?

I don't even see a warning from the US about this on their website or the link provided in the OP. The last warning was Dec. 19th in regards to the RedShirts ... http://bangkok.usemb...wwc/recent.html

Nor does the state department list any current warnings about travel to Thailand ... http://travel.state....tw/tw_1764.html

I smell an item for the conspiracy theory

US Embassy moves out days before the spring rallies

CNN crtiicised for showing biased anti government footage during rallies

US warnings this weekend inconsistent, indicating lack of official stand.

any more?

[Nisa]

As this topic continues, there's a question I would like to ask.

Does any one really know what the Reds or Yellows are fighting for?

I, like most read this forum and like most follow the press. I also talk to as many people as possible about the situation, but every one has always told me a different side and a different point. Does any one actually have an unbiased view of the problems that are happening now.

They both appear to be fighting for blue's support but because they are both extremists they seem to both have forget when all is said and done they are both orange and that neither will ever be part of blue,

[bubba]

Why they only warn US citizens... ? And the rest of us are what exactly... ?

I don't even see a warning from the US about this on their website or the link provided in the OP. The last warning was Dec. 19th in regards to the RedShirts ... http://bangkok.usemb...wwc/recent.html

Nor does the state department list any current warnings about travel to Thailand ... http://travel.state....tw/tw_1764.html

I smell an item for the conspiracy theory

US Embassy moves out days before the spring rallies

CNN crtiicised for showing biased anti government footage during rallies

US warnings this weekend inconsistent, indicating lack of official stand.

any more?

What?

All embassies, hotels and everyone else along the Wireless Road row shut down regular operations following the red's seizure of Ratchaprasong. So did the people who lived around there, if they had someplace else to stay. The US Embassy shut down operations on 14 May...days AFTER the rally began.

http://intransit.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/14/u-s-travelers-warned-as-bangkok-violence-escalates/

Not sure how criticism of CNN fits into a conspiracy theory.

What was inconsistent around the US embassy warden's message for this weekend? It looked just like all the other warnings issued for rallies, and essentially just said (1) a rally will be happening and (2) you would be best to avoid the area. Makes sense to me. There was no "stand".

But you know, I think maybe the US Navy had something to do with the earthquake that triggered the tsunami back in 2004. Go put on your aluminium hat and google that for a while. It's certain to be more fun.

Edited January 21, 2011 by bubba

[animatic]

As this topic continues, there's a question I would like to ask.

Does any one really know what the Reds or Yellows are fighting for?

I, like most read this forum and like most follow the press. I also talk to as many people as possible about the situation, but every one has always told me a different side and a different point. Does any one actually have an unbiased view of the problems that are happening now.

Even within the ranks of either group few are really sure,

except for a few catch phrases, which buy the actions and words of both sides

are barely understood if at all by anyone who is telling the truth about their motives.

.

[Sonkind]

These <deleted> have no consideration for anyone - and why is it the 8 people burned to death in the Central World arson have never been mentioned in the "91 killed' ??? Red Scum are running amok again and it needs the army to round them up or prevent the blockage of the city. Enough is enough - especially when you live in the towers around the area and cannot get in or sleep due to the insane noise from stages and speakers. When will Thailand wake up?

OH! you must be a yellow shirt. Like the ones that did all the damaggovernment house and to BOTH airports????????????? One thing I can say is GO GET EM REDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really wish you would keep spouting off with false information. First of all, I am in no way a supporter of yellow shirts or the airport seizure, but just to get the facts straight, there was no real physical damage to either airport. Nothing was even stolen from them including duty free. In fact, I had a flight the first day it re-opened, and everything looked completely normal. The check-in agent at TG told me that she had left in haste the day the takeover occurred, forgetting her laptop which she left under the counter. When she returned to work, it was still there.

As for your "go get 'em reds", you sound like you are lowering this to the level of some sort of football game. I guess it would be a re-match though. The Reds did in fact "go get 'em" in May. Look at what they left after their seizure of downtown.

Exactly. LOL it is amazing that facts will always trump ignorance and idiocy. But looking at Diehard60's comment history speaks for itself, amazing how people with nothing to say always use !!!!!!!!! and ????? as to give credit to there misguided opinions.

[oldsailor35]

What's the point of these bi-weekly "rallies"? Do they really think that they are generating support for their cause by being nuisances, disrupting Sunday plans for Bangkokians and visitors, and ruining Sunday business for thousands of working class workers and vendors? They certainly have a right to express their political views, and that could easily be done with thousands of attendees at a suitable location without infringing on others' rights to a normal Sunday for those who choose to work, trade, or enjoy their Sunday otherwise. Good luck in the next Bangkok election, PT.

Suitable location ? i think its past that, these people are frustrated at being kept down, just look at Tunisia and other countries. You can only keep the people down for so long and somethings got to give.

[oldsailor35]

Why they only warn US citizens... ? And the rest of us are what exactly... ?

I believe that bulletin came from the US Embassy in a message to US citizens in Thailand, and it was broadcast publicly for anyone to read. The rest of us are not US citizens, and the US Embassy has no obligation to provide us with any services do they? What country are you from? Does your diplomatic mission provide services for US citizens in Thailand at your country's taxpayers expense?

Exactly, its common sense is'nt it.

[Nisa]

As this topic continues, there's a question I would like to ask.

Does any one really know what the Reds or Yellows are fighting for?

I, like most read this forum and like most follow the press. I also talk to as many people as possible about the situation, but every one has always told me a different side and a different point. Does any one actually have an unbiased view of the problems that are happening now.

Even within the ranks of either group few are really sure,

except for a few catch phrases, which buy the actions and words of both sides

are barely understood if at all by anyone who is telling the truth about their motives.

.

What I believe is pretty certain is that the Reds would not be talking about Democracy if Thaksin's party was in power now regardless of how they came to power. So, the fight for democracy is surely not what they are about. If the circumstances were reversed the yellows would be screaming about democracy. So, the bottom line is you have one group (yellows) that supports the current political party in charge and despises Thaksin those (past/present) that represent Thaksin's crew and the other group (reds) that support Thaksin and his crew and despise the current political group in power.

I personally believe everything else is BS. It has nothing to do with a class struggle or poor or elite. However, I do believe at the very least the Reds would like a Socialist form of government and some even would like to see Thaksin have ultimate rule and law of the land. I also believe those "elities" do want to maintain their power and riches but the only elite I am sure wants to do that at the expense of the poor in Thailand is Thaksin.

With the Yellows pretty much keeping their mouths shut in recent years (they won) it is kind of hard to say what they are currently about beyond not wanting to see any radical changes to status quo. They are also extremely loyal to The King and the reason for their name and choosing the color Yellow.

Somebody else will have to explain why the Reds chose the color Red but it is my guess you just need to look at history/politics to see what Red represents.

I personally believe neither group represents the vast majority of Thais but it seems if you are against one of the groups you are instantly defined as being part of the other.

[SkyHigh]

As this topic continues, there's a question I would like to ask.

Does any one really know what the Reds or Yellows are fighting for?

I, like most read this forum and like most follow the press. I also talk to as many people as possible about the situation, but every one has always told me a different side and a different point. Does any one actually have an unbiased view of the problems that are happening now.

The reds are not happy with the current system : the rich always be richer, the poor will be poor forever.

People tend to think both reds & yellows are the problem. But actually they are not.

The yellows are pro-right. The reds are pro-left. Both can lead the country well if apply the rule appropriately.

It is the extremists on both side who cause the problems.

From what I found on this forum, farangs are more stupid and ignorant than the so called uneducated red.

They seem to believe the reds are paid to stage up rally, bought by Thaksin etc.

[Nisa]

What's the point of these bi-weekly "rallies"? Do they really think that they are generating support for their cause by being nuisances, disrupting Sunday plans for Bangkokians and visitors, and ruining Sunday business for thousands of working class workers and vendors? They certainly have a right to express their political views, and that could easily be done with thousands of attendees at a suitable location without infringing on others' rights to a normal Sunday for those who choose to work, trade, or enjoy their Sunday otherwise. Good luck in the next Bangkok election, PT.

Suitable location ? i think its past that, these people are frustrated at being kept down, just look at Tunisia and other countries. You can only keep the people down for so long and somethings got to give.

Who is keeping them down, why and how are these reds "being kept down"?

Free healthcare? Free Education? Not being charged taxes for anything they buy related to farming or if their income is below $20k (like most in BKK where living expenses are much higher)?

Maybe you are referring to the elites secret doings that are forcing these families to be farmers and not allowing them to come to BKK and start a business or get a job.

I bet all the rich BKK residents wish they had months of free time to spend at the malls downtown as the reds did earlier in the year but I guess their too busy pruning the 1000 baht notes from the money tress they all have growing in their mansions.

[dekbahnnok]

Why do the government keep letting these rallys happen?

Is so that the Red shirts can have a look at see if all the damage they caused is almost fixed? Ahh yes remember that place we burned down!

I think you'll find it's called freedom of expression or just plain freedom !

Sometimes freedom is the right to be stupid.

[oldsailor35]

Oh c'mon, they are only rice farmers and tuk tuk drivers, what do they know about shopping in decent airconditioned shopping malls and whats more what right have they to disrupt these privileges and rights of ours. They should be either working or returned to the country where they belong and not allowed to make a nuisance of themselves.

[Nisa]

From what I found on this forum, farangs are more stupid and ignorant than the so called uneducated red.

They seem to believe the reds are paid to stage up rally, bought by Thaksin etc.

Yes, absolutely crazy to believe they are paid to attend these rallies. The first hand accounts we hear from those being paid to the actual video footage being shown of them being paid to the reds issuing ID cards and confiscating Thai issued ID cards and making protesters prove their attendance daily during the April mob gathering.

We know these hard working farmers working from sun up to sun down with no money walked all the way down from the north to attend the month plus long gathering back in April and ate bugs and tree bark to keep their strength and used cotton they grew on their own to sew those red shirts and communist caps they wore as well as using their own urine a feces to paint Thaksin's pictures on all those posters they carried. And all the clappers they they used to make noise were actually made from their teeth that constantly fall out from lack of nourishment.

You are very naive if you believe the majority of people were not compensated for their participation. Even in the US the major political parties pay people to attend rallies and protests.

[slapout]

Oh c'mon, they are only rice farmers and tuk tuk drivers, what do they know about shopping in decent airconditioned shopping malls and whats more what right have they to disrupt these privileges and rights of ours. They should be either working or returned to the country where they belong and not allowed to make a nuisance of themselves.

Chiang Mai was a lot more peaceful during the Bangkok "sit/live in". Tuk tuks were less of a nuisance by their absences and the purse snatching from motorcycle riders seemed to decrease. I did not even notice the loss of the red baht buses as we have thousands of those and a loss of 500 would clear up parking for the rest of us.

The rice farmers in the villages I visited were doing what they do best , waiting for planting/harvest season. With tourist season winding down the reds may be able to pick up an additional following from this area.

[patjem]

Ref. Red rallies and recent ones also in UK and France.... Our European brothers have had their rallies, made their point, had it publicised.

The Red Bangkok rally situation is more like a scratched repeating record. Everyone's heard their rhetoric and the longer it continues on the same loop, the more people get bored with it.

Self-defeating, if you ask me!

Does anyone know of any offers being made of use of a stadium or similar venue actually being made to them?

[kumsamut]

so lack of knowledge and naive.

is this gov formed by democracy?

hall no!!!

did you know who burn the thing? the military.

knock knock. do you want a link?

[Otis]

Why they only warn US citizens... ? And the rest of us are what exactly... ?

Wikileaks has gone cabinet level? OC

[Credo]

Well for those that are sick of the Red Shirt rhetoric, they don't have far to travel to hear the yellow shirt rhetoric.

[truethailand]

Here we go again.

This leave all of us wondering what is the aim of all these rallies? and mostly, why the heck is the gov't doing nothing.

Now we've go both side doing monthly rallies in the heart of Bangkok, wrecking the already fatally bad economy for business in the area.

Totally FUBARed.

I would guess it is to give information and make speeches since their radio. tv stations and websites are still closed by government.

Thumbs up Random.. That made me chuckle. A shining light in that bile known as 'nationous'

[Nisa]

Ref. Red rallies and recent ones also in UK and France.... Our European brothers have had their rallies, made their point, had it publicised.

The Red Bangkok rally situation is more like a scratched repeating record. Everyone's heard their rhetoric and the longer it continues on the same loop, the more people get bored with it.

Self-defeating, if you ask me!

Does anyone know of any offers being made of use of a stadium or similar venue actually being made to them?

You must have a very good heart (I mean that as a compliment) to believe they want to protest anywhere that would not cause problems and inconvenience for those in BKK.

Clearly these people do not want to be heard because they say nothing positive or hopeful for Thailand and they certainly are not looking to gain support by these by weekly crippling of the commercial district. Their intent is clear and that is to cause problems and be a thorn in the side of the government and those in Bangkok they perceive as having more than them (can afford to shop at these malls). Their goal is to create hate and divide Thailand hopefully to the point of such unrest that Thaksin or a puppet of his can rise up and be the saviour.

[bubba]

so lack of knowledge and naive.

is this gov formed by democracy?

hall no!!!

did you know who burn the thing? the military.

knock knock. do you want a link?

Yes, if you make the claim, you have to lay the blame with a link. Go ahead....let's see it.

Just to get things started, here is a video with red shirt leaders urging their followers to burn government building, airports, hospitals, homes, etc. A quote "Go ahead and burn it all, my brothers and sisters.", and;

"I guarantee we will turn the city of Bangkok into a sea of fire!"

By the way, the video opens with Thaksin making a speech before the rally started, saying "We shall enter the city of Bangkok together. And I shall be with you in person!"

Edited January 21, 2011 by bubba

[truethailand]

Judging by the scorn and vitriol constantly directed at the Reds by many expats I can only assume that they enjoy priviledged positions amongst the Bangkok elite.

I feel really sorry for the poor sod who could not get into his luxury apartment because the road was blocked. To be deprived of his aircon, hot water, flush toilet, and satellite TV is criminal behaviour by these dastardly miscreants. Lock them up, throw the key away, better yet call in the army to exterminate them.

And what about the poor sods trying to earn a living? They are the ones that are hurt most.

and u give a rats arse about mainly isaan people, working in Bangkok, losing a crust.

[gemini81]

Oh c'mon, they are only rice farmers and tuk tuk drivers, what do they know about shopping in decent airconditioned shopping malls and whats more what right have they to disrupt these privileges and rights of ours. They should be either working or returned to the country where they belong and not allowed to make a nuisance of themselves.

Chiang Mai was a lot more peaceful during the Bangkok "sit/live in". Tuk tuks were less of a nuisance by their absences and the purse snatching from motorcycle riders seemed to decrease. I did not even notice the loss of the red baht buses as we have thousands of those and a loss of 500 would clear up parking for the rest of us.

The rice farmers in the villages I visited were doing what they do best , waiting for planting/harvest season. With tourist season winding down the reds may be able to pick up an additional following from this area.

so basically you're saying outside of the rally zones, crime greatly decreases. That sounds about accurate to tell the truth! Now all we need is some barbed wire

[gemini81]

so lack of knowledge and naive.

is this gov formed by democracy?

hall no!!!

did you know who burn the thing? the military.

knock knock. do you want a link?

Knock knock. Who is there?

Kumsamut is "not all there."

I am trying to make sense of your jibberish, and I think you're saying the military set it all up? the rubberneckers didn;t do it? That wasn't red shirts I saw with my own eyes trying to burn down bkk bank? you're beyond clueless, you weren't here when it happened one can notice.

[gemini81]

so lack of knowledge and naive.

is this gov formed by democracy?

hall no!!!

did you know who burn the thing? the military.

knock knock. do you want a link?

Knock knock. Who is there?

Kumsamut is "not all there."

I am trying to make sense of your jibberish, and I think you're saying the military set it all up? the rubberneckers didn;t do it? That wasn't red shirts I saw with my own eyes trying to burn down bkk bank? you're beyond clueless, you weren't here when it happened one can notice.

[truethailand]

Judging by the scorn and vitriol constantly directed at the Reds by many expats I can only assume that they enjoy priviledged positions amongst the Bangkok elite.

I feel really sorry for the poor sod who could not get into his luxury apartment because the road was blocked. To be deprived of his aircon, hot water, flush toilet, and satellite TV is criminal behaviour by these dastardly miscreants. Lock them up, throw the key away, better yet call in the army to exterminate them.

Please do us a favor and show us any quotes coming from this red demonstration that indicates they are protesting for more opportunity for the poor in this country. Back in April they wanted an immediate disbandment of the current government and stated clearly that NOTHING that there was nothing Abhsist could do to change this position They also refused the offer to hold elections early at the end of last year Now they are gathering for the release of jailed leaders who led them to a slaughter and/or to remember the outcome of their violent and lawless siege of BKK back in April.

Lets not pretend they want anything else then what they clearly state and what their actions clearly show

Please speak up for all the inequality but do yourself a favor and don't pretend these reds speaks for the betterment of Thailand Nor should you hate those who have worked hard to make a good life for themselves or have resentment for this who have been lucky in terms of their wealth.

Very well put, Nisa. The poor farmers as well as the urban poor have a legitimate cause, and I fully support that cause. What I do not support is a counter-elite group of wealthy businessmen and politicians who have hoodwinked those people into believing that they represent anything that will elevate their freedom or quality of life. Can anyone cite even one specific example that the Thaksinistas have provided regarding policies or programmes that would do anything for the people they supposedly represent? All I ever heard from those weeks on Red Stage was vitriol and foul language. I truly feel sorry for those poor people who were duped and have suffered as a result.

I would also suggest that any poster here who defends the Thaksinista/red shirt mob has been equally hoodwinked, but perhaps even more pathetically as they should have the education and means to see through it - much more so than a poor Isaan farming family who had to work hard to feed a family and could not afford the luxury of finishing school, let alone complete their studies at Chiang Mai's elite Montfort College.

maybe this is the reason the poor are so easily led

Recently released data from Thailand show clearly the relationship between poverty and education. According to the National Economic and Social Development Board, of the total number of poor people in 2002, 94.7 per cent had received only primary education or less. A further 2.8 per cent had lower secondary education, 1.7 per cent had upper secondary, 0.48 per cent had vocational qualifications and 0.31 per cent had graduated from universities. Thailandกฏs poor are overwhelmingly uneducated. They also tend to be rural and living in large families.

And who has allowed the education system to remain this way for decades..only those that will benefit from people being too thick to question what they do... This is maybe one of the things they believe they are fighting to change

[Nisa]

Judging by the scorn and vitriol constantly directed at the Reds by many expats I can only assume that they enjoy priviledged positions amongst the Bangkok elite.

I feel really sorry for the poor sod who could not get into his luxury apartment because the road was blocked. To be deprived of his aircon, hot water, flush toilet, and satellite TV is criminal behaviour by these dastardly miscreants. Lock them up, throw the key away, better yet call in the army to exterminate them.

Please do us a favor and show us any quotes coming from this red demonstration that indicates they are protesting for more opportunity for the poor in this country. Back in April they wanted an immediate disbandment of the current government and stated clearly that NOTHING that there was nothing Abhsist could do to change this position They also refused the offer to hold elections early at the end of last year Now they are gathering for the release of jailed leaders who led them to a slaughter and/or to remember the outcome of their violent and lawless siege of BKK back in April.

Lets not pretend they want anything else then what they clearly state and what their actions clearly show

Please speak up for all the inequality but do yourself a favor and don't pretend these reds speaks for the betterment of Thailand Nor should you hate those who have worked hard to make a good life for themselves or have resentment for this who have been lucky in terms of their wealth.

Very well put, Nisa. The poor farmers as well as the urban poor have a legitimate cause, and I fully support that cause. What I do not support is a counter-elite group of wealthy businessmen and politicians who have hoodwinked those people into believing that they represent anything that will elevate their freedom or quality of life. Can anyone cite even one specific example that the Thaksinistas have provided regarding policies or programmes that would do anything for the people they supposedly represent? All I ever heard from those weeks on Red Stage was vitriol and foul language. I truly feel sorry for those poor people who were duped and have suffered as a result.

I would also suggest that any poster here who defends the Thaksinista/red shirt mob has been equally hoodwinked, but perhaps even more pathetically as they should have the education and means to see through it - much more so than a poor Isaan farming family who had to work hard to feed a family and could not afford the luxury of finishing school, let alone complete their studies at Chiang Mai's elite Montfort College.

maybe this is the reason the poor are so easily led

Recently released data from Thailand show clearly the relationship between poverty and education. According to the National Economic and Social Development Board, of the total number of poor people in 2002, 94.7 per cent had received only primary education or less. A further 2.8 per cent had lower secondary education, 1.7 per cent had upper secondary, 0.48 per cent had vocational qualifications and 0.31 per cent had graduated from universities. Thailandกฏs poor are overwhelmingly uneducated. They also tend to be rural and living in large families.

And who has allowed the education system to remain this way for decades..only those that will benefit from people being too thick to question what they do... This is maybe one of the things they believe they are fighting to change

Sounds like a cause worth fighting for but I never heard of a Red gathering to promote better eduction but more importantly Thailand guarantees 12 years of free education (thru upper secondary) and by law 9 years of education is mandatory.

EDIT: I also believe Thailand has one of the highest literacy rates in Asia as well as having one of the highest percentage of the total budget dedicated to education. It should also be noted that Thaksin did a lot to help the poor in areas of Education & Healthcare and the these areas continue to be improved since his leaving office.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Nisa

[truethailand]

Its not the time spent at school, its what you do when you are there... the quality of teaching, facilities etc and all of that givesThais no chance to excel. Put a Thai child in an average western school and the chance are that he will be far better educated than if you left the same child in a village school in Thailand. Papers from the highest educational establishments here carry little weight outside of Thailand.

[Emptyset]

The real cynic in me believes that Central World is being targeted not because of the clientelle they serve, but owing to a vendetta between the red shirt paymaster (who denies he knows the red shirts one minute then very publicly calls into them the next) and the owners of Central World.

Why do you think they're "targeting" it? They're still rallying there for symbolic reasons, it's not to "target" anyone. That's what any red will tell you if you ask them, anyway. Unless you're referring back to the arson, then you're certainly right. I don't know if your average red shirt knows about that, but the initial mob that started the fire must've done it for that reason (and then obviously the armed men that did the bulk of the damage were sent specifically to teach the Chirathivat family a lesson).

Anyway, as soon as they get some results from the investigation into the crackdown and an election, then I imagine rallies there might be just once a year "remembrance" type things.

[Nisa]

Its not the time spent at school, its what you do when you are there... the quality of teaching, facilities etc and all of that givesThais no chance to excel. Put a Thai child in an average western school and the chance are that he will be far better educated than if you left the same child in a village school in Thailand. Papers from the highest educational establishments here carry little weight outside of Thailand.

This is an entirely different issue unless we now want to claim the reds are fighting for better education for all of Thailand. Bottom line is Thailand is not a Western Nation and has not yet reached the status of being a First World Country and it makes no sense to compare its education to a First World Country. It would be fair to consider how much it has improved over the last decade and the continued goals and progress being made.