More Translation Into Thai Needed

[Parvis]

Please translate "We do not see things as they are - but as we are"

[a51mas]

.................

Edited January 21, 2011 by a51mas

[Parvis]

เราจะร่วมรักสามัคคี = we are one

same meaning as yours.

Tx - it is similar - BUT -----. As I read your comment it means approximately "together in Harmony".

What I would like is the meaning of how "our perspective determines what we personally see - rather than what is actually there". Therefore nothing to do with Harmony but rather relating to the disharmony that may be caused by our perspective.

"We do not see things as they are - but as we are"

Edited January 21, 2011 by Parvis

[Peppy]

เราไม่ได้มองสิ่งต่าง ๆ อย่างที่มันเป็น แต่เรามองสิ่งต่าง ๆ อย่างที่เราเห็น

http://dungtrin.com/mag/?15.kumkom

[a51mas]

เราจะร่วมรักสามัคคี = we are one

same meaning as yours.

Tx - it is similar - BUT -----. As I read your comment it means approximately "together in Harmony".

What I would like is the meaning of how "our perspective determines what we personally see - rather than what is actually there". Therefore nothing to do with Harmony but rather relating to the disharmony that may be caused by our perspective.

"We do not see things as they are - but as we are"

yes, I was wrong and tried to edit the post, but you were too fast for me.

So, you only see what you want to see (illusion), Is that what you mean?

[Peppy]

Here's an interesting discussion on the quote and what it means... http://th.answers.ya...13003838AALjq74

Edited January 21, 2011 by Peppy

[Parvis]

Yes "a51mas" - "the illusions we see - or are trained to see - forms our personal reality" - is more or less what I meant. I am looking for a similar short proverb in Thai.

Peppy described it well (are you Thai??) - now I am trying to "shorten" into a "philosophically poetic form".

Edited January 21, 2011 by Parvis

[Peppy]

Peppy described it well (are you Thai??) - now I am trying to "shorten" into a "philosophically poetic form".

No, I'm not Thai actually... but I'm working on it, linguistically at least.

I should note that that wasn't even my own translation... I googled for "We do not see things as they are, but as we are" and found it was a quote from Anais Nin--so then I searched for "อนาอิส นิน คำคม" ["Anais Nin quotations"] and found the link I posted with the translation (it's the last quote on that page).

Personally, I think you'll have trouble shortening it--it's quite "philosophically poetic" just as it is IMO.

[Parvis]

Peppy described it well (are you Thai??) - now I am trying to "shorten" into a "philosophically poetic form".

No, I'm not Thai actually... but I'm working on it, linguistically at least.

I should note that that wasn't even my own translation... I googled for "We do not see things as they are, but as we are" and found it was a quote from Anais Nin--so then I searched for "อนาอิส นิน คำคม" ["Anais Nin quotations"] and found the link I posted with the translation (it's the last quote on that page).

Personally, I think you'll have trouble shortening it--it's quite "philosophically poetic" just as it is IMO.

Actually - re-reading your quote in Thai I would have thought that the "correct" ending should be "young ti row pen" (not - young ti row hen) - since what we see "hen" is determined by - what/who we are - "pen" (which then gives it the "philosophically poetic form" - but not yet in short).

Peppy please correct me (and the reasons) - However I have only been an active Thai Student for less than 2 years - therefore certainly not an expert..

Edited January 21, 2011 by Parvis

[Peppy]

Actually - re-reading your quote in Thai I would have thought that the "correct" ending should be "young ti row pen" (not - young ti row hen) - since what we see "hen" is determined by - what/who we are - "pen" (which then gives it the "philosophically poetic form" - but not yet in short).

Peppy please correct me (and the reasons) - However I have only been an active Thai Student for less than 2 years - therefore certainly not an expert..

Indeed, that's how it's translated in the second link I gave (http://th.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100513003838AALjq74) where the OP's question is "จริงไหมว่า เราไม่ได้เห็นสิ่งต่าง ๆ อย่างที่มันเป็น แต่เรามองสิ่งต่าง ๆ อย่างที่ตัวเราเป็น?"

I suppose the phrasing in the first link deviates slightly from what would be a literal translation in that it states "We see things not as they are, but as we see them to be" (เรามองสิ่งต่าง ๆ อย่างที่เราเห็น).

Is there a difference?

[a51mas]

I can't think of any proverb that match the phrase, but there is a phrase often use มองในมุมที่แตกต่าง

= see thing in a different perspective (point of view), ie: half empty/half full. Does it makes sense at all.

[Parvis]

Peppy for me there IS a difference - in exact meaning and "philosophically poetical style". To make this clearer I change English (in words - but not meaning) to:

"We do not observe things according to the way they are - but we observe things according to the way we are"

เราไม่ได้มองสิ่งต่าง ๆ อย่างที่มันเป็น แต่เรามองสิ่งต่าง ๆ อย่างที่เราเป็น

Your "We see things not as they are, but as we see them to be" is not identical (but very similar) to the above - both English and Thai.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Parvis

[a51mas]

Hi. Peppy

Thank you for the link, I have this phrase hidden somewhere in my head that I couldn't come up with it yesterday, but it pop up this morning and the phrase is "มองตัวเขาแต่เห็นตัวเรา" = we look at peoples (didn't see them as they are) but only see our traits in them..........what do you think, Is it compatible with OP's offered.

Edited January 21, 2011 by a51mas

[Parvis]

Hi. Peppy

Thank you for the link, I have this phrase hidden somewhere in my head that I couldn't come up with it yesterday, but it pop up this morning and the phrase is "มองตัวเขาแต่เห็นตัวเรา" = we look at peoples (didn't see them as they are) but only see our traits in them..........what do you think, Is it compatible with OP's offered.

Quite compatible - I think - on a "personal level (not all encompassing)". Short - "philosphically poetic" - not explaining all detail.

"Look at him/her but see yourself."

Except "ตัวเอง" may be a more "potent" ending.

Tx

Edited January 22, 2011 by Parvis

[a51mas]

I didn't create this phrase by myself, it's an ordinary phrase used in daily conversation by Thais.

As for using "ตัวเอง" it's would be OK in other situations, but in this case, intended for it to rhyme, and "ตัวเอง" would not makes it more effective than already is.

A lot of Thai proverbs don't come with much details, whichever the words left out would be easily pick up if one is an advance level student.