Thai Response To Tragedy Vs. Us Response

[Guest endure]

You completely ignore the fact this was a Hurricane not as Tsunami and thus the destruction to infrastructure extends hundreds of miles inland.  Very, very different situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, you think that the pathetic response that the US government is giving is somehow acceptable?

If I'm misunderstanding you... sorry. But it seems that a storm surge is a storm surge. It's merely a matter of degree.

OK, just looking at New Orleans then... this was the city that the news media and the weather agencies said would get hit and they did. I'm not talking about all the damage that went down inland. Look at how mismanaged the rescue process is going in this one city - I'm appauled.

If we didn't have our military fighting for oil, we'd have a few more hands to help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what the National Guard is for dope! What rock have you been under?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, the National Guard is for "dope". I thought that was illegal. I'm guessing that you meant that, "that's what the National Guard is for, dope!" It's called a comma.

So, watching CNN and FOX, I don't see much of the National Guard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A comma? A fcking comma? That is how you respond to my post?

All right English teacher I won't make you defend your statement. It's clear you don't what the National Guard is. So, since English is what you do know, I hear by

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you mean 'hereby' rather than 'hear by'

[chownah]

This is from a Yahoo news article:

"

At one point Friday, the evacuation was interrupted briefly when school buses pulled up so some 700 guests and employees from the Hyatt Hotel could move to the head of the evacuation line — much to the amazement of those who had been crammed in the Superdome since last Sunday.

"How does this work? They (are) clean, they are dry, they get out ahead of us?" exclaimed Howard Blue, 22, who tried to get in their line. The National Guard blocked him as other guardsmen helped the well-dressed guests with their luggage.

"

[aughie]

Not sure what your point is chownah. The order to do this was given by the mayor of NO. There were foriegners amongst the group. There could have been a request from an ambassador to assist some of his people and the mayor agreed to avoid an international incident. Rape and murder have been reported at the SuperDome the last thing the city of NO needs is the foriegn press coming down on it for something like that. It might well have been sound judgement on the part of the mayor.

[BAF]

This is from a Yahoo news article:

"

At one point Friday, the evacuation was interrupted briefly when school buses pulled up so some 700 guests and employees from the Hyatt Hotel could move to the head of the evacuation line — much to the amazement of those who had been crammed in the Superdome since last Sunday.

"How does this work? They (are) clean, they are dry, they get out ahead of us?" exclaimed Howard Blue, 22, who tried to get in their line. The National Guard blocked him as other guardsmen helped the well-dressed guests with their luggage.

"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interestingly, you left out:

the hotel was cleared with priority to make room for police, firefighters and other officials.

and

The Hyatt was severely damaged by the storm.

Edited September 3, 2005 by BAF

[aughie]

That makes even more sense. Thanks BAF.

[Curt]

This is from a Yahoo news article:

"

At one point Friday, the evacuation was interrupted briefly when school buses pulled up so some 700 guests and employees from the Hyatt Hotel could move to the head of the evacuation line — much to the amazement of those who had been crammed in the Superdome since last Sunday.

"How does this work? They (are) clean, they are dry, they get out ahead of us?" exclaimed Howard Blue, 22, who tried to get in their line. The National Guard blocked him as other guardsmen helped the well-dressed guests with their luggage.

"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interestingly, you left out:

the hotel was cleared with priority to make room for police, firefighters and other officials.

and

The Hyatt was severely damaged by the storm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also left out was the fact that the mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin, and some other city officials had been staying there!

The plot thickens..........

[aughie]

The mayor's office was destroyed. The hotel probably has emergency generators to keep operating. So what if he moves in the police and fire dept. to centralize his operations? I think the Hyatt is near the evacuation center.

[thaibebop]

You completely ignore the fact this was a Hurricane not as Tsunami and thus the destruction to infrastructure extends hundreds of miles inland.  Very, very different situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, you think that the pathetic response that the US government is giving is somehow acceptable?

If I'm misunderstanding you... sorry. But it seems that a storm surge is a storm surge. It's merely a matter of degree.

OK, just looking at New Orleans then... this was the city that the news media and the weather agencies said would get hit and they did. I'm not talking about all the damage that went down inland. Look at how mismanaged the rescue process is going in this one city - I'm appauled.

If we didn't have our military fighting for oil, we'd have a few more hands to help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what the National Guard is for dope! What rock have you been under?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, the National Guard is for "dope". I thought that was illegal. I'm guessing that you meant that, "that's what the National Guard is for, dope!" It's called a comma.

So, watching CNN and FOX, I don't see much of the National Guard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A comma? A fcking comma? That is how you respond to my post?

All right English teacher I won't make you defend your statement. It's clear you don't what the National Guard is. So, since English is what you do know, I hear by

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you mean 'hereby' rather than 'hear by'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I did. Got happy with the spacebar.

[meelousee]

This is a logistical nightmare major roads into the area are GONE not just damaged or under water. The area is 100,000 square miles of devastation and 500,000 people have had some level of injury or loss of property and or self. The relief takes time they don’t have a star trek transporter that can instantly zap people and supplies where they need to be.

I read here that some folks were shocked at the lack of response, and agreed somewhat and wondered why could or how could this happen. Even if the US military is stretched paper thin due to the quagmire in Iraq and Afghanistan, the resources are available with the exception of heavy lift helicopters.

Then I loaded the maps from http://www.expedia.com/pub/agent.dll?qscr=mmfn and of the path from http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/ I was shocked to learn the eye wall of this storm was just over 20 miles across. With winds gusts to over 150 mph extending out 80 miles. And 75 mph extending out 200 miles? I did not know that just as the first part of Katrina was making land fall it was upgraded from a category 4 to the extremely dangerous category 5, that means 150 mph winds were not gusts but sustained with 200 mph gusts and the whole of the storm 600 miles across. This storm blindsided the relief effort, and in some places they had to just dump truck loads of rock to cross some bridges that were gone. Others had to detour 100 miles just to get into some of the areas.

Just imagine the size of this, Katrina was massive its destructive path was 60 miles wide and 150 miles long. And a turn to the right was not even predicted it, crossed the delta and hit Biloxi Miss. doing so it picked up a 30’ surge in St. Louis bay. I think this was the worst storm in more than 50 years?

If anyone should be ashamed it is the media for drumming up resentment and turmoil in the general public of this world. The media is selling us a bill of goods and show only part of the story this is to get hits for their advertisers and political pea brains that want to attack Bush. The other issues of the levee breach and the cancellation of the upgrade due to finance and FEMA will be the real black eyes. There are better reports on NOAA web site than CNN or FOX. One of them should be of interest where a doctor received the FEMA disaster relief shipments, in them were items for a biological disaster not a hurricane and when he called FEMA to ask “What is this” the reply was “well that is what the book says” thanks mr. bureaucrat

The media should take every dime they are collecting from the advertisers and turn it over to the poor, TV, News Papers and Radio are the ones that need to be pointed out, not the relief effort. IMO they were slow but there are good reasons.

This is what the likes of CNN and FOX are not showing or telling you.

“At approximately 7:10 a.m. EDT, Hurricane Katrina made landfall in southern Plaquemines Parish, La., just south of Buras, as a Category Four hurricane with maximum winds estimated at 140 mph to the east of the center.”

And then

“at 11:45 a.m. EDT when the storm was a Category Five hurricane”

20 miles off the predicted track and the winds are near double. Buras La. is not a story because it is gone there is nothing there but mud.

Can you figure out how a 4 ton truck of supplies can get around this?

view of the river road. Then on the Gulf road we can get what maybe a donkey around this?

All Photos and quotes from ( http://www.noaa.gov/ )

[BAF]

Interestingly, you left out:

the hotel was cleared with priority to make room for police, firefighters and other officials.

and

The Hyatt was severely damaged by the storm.

Also left out was the fact that the mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin, and some other city officials had been staying there!

The plot thickens..........

Exactly, they have been using it as a base for the officials involved in the rescue efforts and intend to keep doing so.

Talk about "thickness"...

Edited September 3, 2005 by BAF

[udon]

Live TV feed from New Orleans

[Curt]

Interestingly, you left out:

the hotel was cleared with priority to make room for police, firefighters and other officials.

and

The Hyatt was severely damaged by the storm.

Also left out was the fact that the mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin, and some other city officials had been staying there!

The plot thickens..........

Exactly, they have been using it as a base for the officials involved in the rescue efforts and intend to keep doing so.

Talk about "thickness"...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"They" were also resposible for the "front-of-the-line" pass.

That's the point.

So many, including the extremely vocal mayor, are calling the response to this disaster a "white v. black", "haves v. have nots" issue.

He seems to know.

One good report from New Orleans: The French Quarter, the original New Orleans, appears to have survived.

[BAF]

"They" were also resposible for the "front-of-the-line" pass.

That's the point.

Point that has already been addressed:

the hotel was cleared with priority to make room for police, firefighters and other officials.

So many, including the extremely vocal mayor, are calling the response to this disaster a "white v. black", "haves v. have nots" issue.

He seems to know.

If I am not mistaken he has been flying around NO in helicopters so he hardly needs a pass to get in front of a line to get on a bus.

Why is it so hard to believe that the hotel, which has so far served as a "close to the action" base, is being cleared to make room for police, firefighters and other officials and keep on being a "close to the action" base?

Anyway, I agree on your comments on his very inappropriate and vocal remarks on "white v. black" and "haves v. have nots" issues.

Especially seeing (as others have already pointed out) that he himself, the mayor of New Orleans, is a black, the police chief is a black and many other officials and big shots are also all blacks.

[Galong]

United States of Shame (from the Op. Ed. section of the NY Times)

By MAUREEN DOWD

Published: September 3, 2005

Stuff happens.

And when you combine limited government with incompetent government, lethal stuff happens.

America is once more plunged into a snake pit of anarchy, death, looting, raping, marauding thugs, suffering innocents, a shattered infrastructure, a gutted police force, insufficient troop levels and criminally negligent government planning. But this time it's happening in America.

W. drove his budget-cutting Chevy to the levee, and it wasn't dry. Bye, bye, American lives. "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees," he told Diane Sawyer.

Shirt-sleeves rolled up, W. finally landed in ###### yesterday and chuckled about his wild boozing days in "the great city" of N'Awlins. He was clearly moved. "You know, I'm going to fly out of here in a minute," he said on the runway at the New Orleans International Airport, "but I want you to know that I'm not going to forget what I've seen." Out of the cameras' range, and avoided by W., was a convoy of thousands of sick and dying people, some sprawled on the floor or dumped on baggage carousels at a makeshift M*A*S*H unit inside the terminal.

Why does this self-styled "can do" president always lapse into such lame "who could have known?" excuses.

Who on earth could have known that Osama bin Laden wanted to attack us by flying planes into buildings? Any official who bothered to read the trellis of pre-9/11 intelligence briefs.

Who on earth could have known that an American invasion of Iraq would spawn a brutal insurgency, terrorist recruiting boom and possible civil war? Any official who bothered to read the C.I.A.'s prewar reports.

Who on earth could have known that New Orleans's sinking levees were at risk from a strong hurricane? Anybody who bothered to read the endless warnings over the years about the Big Easy's uneasy fishbowl.

In June 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, fretted to The Times-Picayune in New Orleans: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."

Not only was the money depleted by the Bush folly in Iraq; 30 percent of the National Guard and about half its equipment are in Iraq.

Ron Fournier of The Associated Press reported that the Army Corps of Engineers asked for $105 million for hurricane and flood programs in New Orleans last year. The White House carved it to about $40 million. But President Bush and Congress agreed to a $286.4 billion pork-filled highway bill with 6,000 pet projects, including a $231 million bridge for a small, uninhabited Alaskan island.

Just last year, Federal Emergency Management Agency officials practiced how they would respond to a fake hurricane that caused floods and stranded New Orleans residents. Imagine the feeble FEMA's response to Katrina if they had not prepared.

Michael Brown, the blithering idiot in charge of FEMA - a job he trained for by running something called the International Arabian Horse Association - admitted he didn't know until Thursday that there were 15,000 desperate, dehydrated, hungry, angry, dying victims of Katrina in the New Orleans Convention Center.

Was he sacked instantly? No, our tone-deaf president hailed him in Mobile, Ala., yesterday: "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."

It would be one thing if President Bush and his inner circle - Dick Cheney was vacationing in Wyoming; Condi Rice was shoe shopping at Ferragamo's on Fifth Avenue and attended "Spamalot" before bloggers chased her back to Washington; and Andy Card was off in Maine - lacked empathy but could get the job done. But it is a chilling lack of empathy combined with a stunning lack of efficiency that could make this administration implode.

When the president and vice president rashly shook off our allies and our respect for international law to pursue a war built on lies, when they sanctioned torture, they shook the faith of the world in American ideals.

When they were deaf for so long to the horrific misery and cries for help of the victims in New Orleans - most of them poor and black, like those stuck at the back of the evacuation line yesterday while 700 guests and employees of the Hyatt Hotel were bused out first - they shook the faith of all Americans in American ideals. And made us ashamed.

Who are we if we can't take care of our own?

[Narachon]

United States of Shame (from the Op. Ed. section of the NY Times)

By MAUREEN DOWD

Published: September 3, 2005

Shirt-sleeves rolled up, W. finally landed in ###### yesterday and chuckled about his wild boozing days in "the great city" of N'Awlins.

Great Article!

Maureed Dowd is a good columnist... Too bad I only read the Times at work, wish I had the paper here....

I want to know what the Banned word was.....

[meelousee]

United States of Shame (from the Op. Ed. section of the NY Times)

By MAUREEN DOWD

Published: September 3, 2005

Stuff happens.

(shortened for space)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good story, some of it I agree with and the rest was more or less true but the facts were left out.

Like the morgue is flooded it is full of water.

The bad stuff like rape, murder and looting kind of make you sic. Although the Mayor said most of the looting was folks trying to survive. I hope he is right, but why steal a TV there won’t be any electricity for some time and the pawn shops won’t be opening very soon either.

I especially like the "Who on earth could have known" those statements are like an incitement list it's a fact that hindsight is an exact science.

It is like this president to fu0k up something, every business he has ever started ended in catastrophic failure.

I just feel sad that the folks in New Orleans are having such a tough time, and it makes you wonder why MAUREEN DOWD would write a story "United States of Shame Stuff happens” at a time like this. I guess the NY Times is still stinging from the last snafu they pulled. They just had to point their grubby finger at someone.

I hope more people will focus on the human side of what has occurred, the plight of the poor of New Orleans is a sad sight indeed. And not focus on Mr. Bush and his insane failures again.

Edited September 4, 2005 by meelousee

[lovejoy]

United States of Shame (from the Op. Ed. section of the NY Times)

By MAUREEN DOWD

Published: September 3, 2005

Shirt-sleeves rolled up, W. finally landed in ###### yesterday and chuckled about his wild boozing days in "the great city" of N'Awlins.

Great Article!

Maureed Dowd is a good columnist... Too bad I only read the Times at work, wish I had the paper here....

I want to know what the Banned word was.....

i googled the authers name and found the banned word

is there a list of banned words or something?

[aughie]

You can't say ###### or ###### or poontang

Well maybe you can say poontang

[Jomtienwow]

The tsunami is more of an earthquake related event, versus a hurricane event which science now can predict quite accurately, with plenty of warning. If you live in an earthquake zone, you know it can happen any second, but you never have warning, so all you can do is be prepared for it, you can't hope to leave the zone if it hits you. (Unless, you have a good tsunami warning system which Thailand unfortunately lacked at the time.)

This great hurricane was tracking for New Orleans and people had two days warning. There was a major failure of government not to get more people out before the event. The New Orleans newspaper the Times Picayune had predicted this exact event, with the levees breaking and with many thousands of people left in the city, most of these people were not capable of getting out and government was not there to offer them a way.

If you look at a map, you have to conclude the location makes sense commercially, being that the great Mississippi river runs to the sea there. Red beans and rice will live again, rational or not, it might take a decade, but New Orleans will rise again.

Edited September 4, 2005 by Jomtienwow

[meelousee]

The tsunami is more of an earthquake related event, versus a hurricane event which science now can predict quite accurately, with plenty of warning. If you live in an earthquake zone, you know it can happen any second, but you never have warning, so all you can do is be prepared for it, you can't hope to leave the zone if it hits you. (Unless, you have a good tsunami warning system which Thailand unfortunately lacked at the time.)

This great hurricane was tracking for New Orleans and people had two days warning. There was a major failure of government not to get more people out before the event. The New Orleans newspaper the Times Picayune had predicted this exact event, with the levees breaking and with many thousands of people left in the city, most of these people were not capable of getting out and government was not there to offer them a way.

If you look at a map, you have to conclude the location makes sense commercially, being that the great Mississippi river runs to the sea there. Red beans and rice will live again, rational or not, it might take a decade, but New Orleans will rise again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree, they had the time but did not take the chance, thats why I looked up all the stuff on NOAA, it has a link to USGS & ACE and there is a clear warning about any hurricane hitting N.O. above a cat.#3. Bad part it is 5 years old, to me there is not much of an excuse so they knew 5 years ago if a cat#4 was on the way the people had to leave. They even had time to line up Amtrac, and several other modes to move the poor folks out in time, The govenor should have to answer some tough questions. NOAA gave the warning right?

[chownah]

Not sure what your point is chownah.  The order to do this was given by the mayor of NO. There were foriegners amongst the group.  There could have been a request from an ambassador to assist some of his people and the mayor agreed to avoid an international incident.  Rape and murder have been reported at the SuperDome the last thing the city of NO needs is the foriegn press coming down on it for something like that.  It might well have been sound judgement on the part of the mayor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, helping out the well-dressed guests of a luxury hotel instead of the poor people living in h3ll is probably very sound judgement.

[Curt]

The hotel guest example only illustrates how the politicians speak out of both sides of their mouths.

A couple busloads of tourists and high rollers won't make a lick of difference in the situation.

The reporters isolate individual incidents.

There are tens of thousands of individual disasters resulting from Katrina.

And to those affected, few will see beyond their situation.

Their situation is the disaster.

In this thread, we are concentrating on New Orleans.

This city is just one of many affected.

The area devastated by Katrina actually covers an area about the size of Great Britain.

Hundreds of thousands are homeless.

The fed's role is assistance to local governments.

The city, county and state governments have local knowledge, authority and responsibility.

[Steve2UK]

United States of Shame (from the Op. Ed. section of the NY Times)

By MAUREEN DOWD

Published: September 3, 2005

Shirt-sleeves rolled up, W. finally landed in ###### yesterday and chuckled about his wild boozing days in "the great city" of N'Awlins.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great Article!

Maureed Dowd is a good columnist... Too bad I only read the Times at work, wish I had the paper here....

I want to know what the Banned word was.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was "h*ll" - and rhymes with bell...........

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/03/opinion/...ticle_popular_1

While you're on the NY Times site, you might want to look at the photos from Day Five - particularly the shots of evacuees at the airport:

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/khtml/2005...RM_FEATURE.html

While Dubya was stood on the tarmac spinning to the media, about 200 yards away inside the building were rows of evacuated stretcher cases laid out on the floor and on the baggage carousels. It's just dumbfounding how he could come and go without spending at least a few minutes with them. Difficult to think of any other national leader who could behave like that in a comparable situation.

[Mr. Farang]

New Orleans paper rips federal response

Times-Picayune: Everybody at FEMA should be fired

NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- New Orleans' largest newspaper printed a blistering editorial in Sunday's edition under the headline "An Open Letter to the President," criticizing the federal government's response to Hurricane Katrina.

The Times-Picayune -- which abandoned its headquarters and temporarily ceased its print publication last week -- called on every Federal Emergency Management Agency official to be fired, "Director Michael Brown especially."

"Our people deserved to be rescued," the editorial said. "No expense should have been spared. No excuses should have been voiced. Especially not one as preposterous as the claim that New Orleans couldn't be reached."

The editorial joined other voices criticizing the governmental response to the disaster. Criticism has come from people affected on the ground as well as from politicians of both parties, including New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin. (Full story)

Aaron Broussard, the president of Jefferson Parish in New Orleans, broke down in tears Sunday as he recounted how a colleague's mother drowned awaiting rescue from a nursing home.

"Everyday, she called and she said, 'Are you coming, son? Is somebody coming?' " Broussard told NBC's "Meet the Press."

"And he said, 'Yeah, mama, somebody's going to get you.

"'Somebody's coming to get you on Tuesday.

"'Somebody's coming to get you on Wednesday.

"'Somebody's coming to get you on Thursday.

"'Somebody's coming to get you on Friday,' and she drowned Friday night."

"Nobody's coming to get her. The secretary's promised, everybody's promised; they've had press conferences. I'm sick of the press conferences.

"For God's sake, shut up and send us somebody."

The secretary to whom Broussard referred, Michael Chertoff of the Department of Homeland Security, on Sunday rejected criticism of his agency's work.

"This was not just a hurricane; it was a hurricane that was followed by a flood," Chertoff told CNN's "Late Edition."

"It was unprecedented and, I think, that created a challenge that, frankly, overwhelmed a lot of people -- state and local folks. We had people on the ground who were pre-positioned," he said, citing 50 Coast Guard helicopters as an example.

Chertoff said federal authorities "moved as rapidly as we could," and added that he, too, was frustrated that the pace of the response was not quicker.

"The fact of the matter is: It's never enough when there are still people suffering," he said.

"But there's also a tremendous amount of credit to be given: to the folks in the Coast Guard and the FEMA people and the state and local rescue people and, ultimately, the National Guard and the military, in rising to the challenge of this really unprecedented catastrophe."

Democrat to submit FEMA bill

Also Sunday, the top Democrat on the House Department of Homeland Security Committee blasted the federal government for its response.

"It was too little, too late," said Rep. Bennie Thompson, a Mississippi Democrat. "We missed the mark."

Thompson said the blame can be traced to the merger of the Federal Emergency Management Agency with the Homeland Security Department, when domestic preparedness "took a back seat" to preparing for terrorist attacks.

More recovery assets should have been stationed in a region where they could have been moved in to the affected area as soon as the storm had passed, he said.

"At the end of the day, somebody has to be held accountable," Thompson said.

Rep. John D. Dingell said he will introduce legislation Tuesday that would remove FEMA from the Department of Homeland Security and make it, instead, an independent agency headed by a Cabinet-level executive reporting directly to the president.

"While listening to the wounded, broken souls who have emerged from the devastation of Hurricane Katrina, I can clearly see that FEMA has lost its way," the Democrat from Michigan said in a written statement.

The mayor of Hattiesburg, Mississippi, said major problems still existed there.

Though 50 trucks carrying water and ice are stationed in Mississippi's Camp Shelby, FEMA has refused to release them, Mayor Johnny DuPree said.

"They're sitting down there right now because one person from FEMA won't make the call to say, 'Release those trucks,' " he said.

Two-thirds of residents of the southern Mississippi city have no power, and that figure was 100 percent for three-and-a-half days, he added.

He said FEMA representatives did not arrive in Hattiesburg -- 95 miles from New Orleans -- until Saturday.

"People from all over America have come in to help us," he said. "But the people who get paid to do this haven't done what I think they should have done."

"It could have been done a lot better," said Rep. William Jefferson, a Louisiana Democrat.

He said firefighters who had traveled to New Orleans to help relieve over-stretched counterparts had not been put to use. Authorities still "can't find ways to integrate firefighters offering help from other states," he said.

Rep. Bobby Jindal, a Louisiana Republican, added, "I think there's plenty of blame to go around at the state and federal levels."

But, he told CNN, "It's not the time to blame; it's time to make sure somebody's in charge."

Commander: 'This hurts to the heart'

The military commander in charge of the relief efforts, Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, defended the response time of authorities, saying they moved as quickly as possible, although he wished they could have moved faster.

"This hurts to the heart. And I can tell you that myself from walking the streets of New Orleans and seeing the people," he told CNN. "If we could have done it faster ... it would have been done. This is America. This is why we have one of the best militaries in the world, but it took time to get there."

Chertoff came to the defense of Brown, the FEMA director.

"On Saturday, he was on TV telling people in New Orleans they have to take it seriously, they've got to start to move to protect themselves," said Chertoff, who is Brown's boss.

Chertoff noted that Brown led FEMA's response to four hurricanes in Florida last year.

"I think anybody who lived through 2004 went through a crucible of training that is really remarkable," he said.

The secretary said disaster planners have long had a problem getting people to evacuate. He did not address the fact that lack of money, lack of transportation and physical problems prevented many from following the order to flee.

"I am concerned people, perhaps, didn't take it seriously enough up front."

But the time for self-criticism is not now, when life-saving work remains to be done, he said.

"We're going to go back and look at all of this after-action, when we have time, but I've got to emphasize something: We are still in the middle of an emergency," Chertoff said.

Asked about President Bush's comment Thursday to ABC News that, "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees," Chertoff defended his boss.

"I think that did catch people by surprise," the secretary said. "I don't think anybody has seen that kind of massive breach -- in fact, multiple, massive breaches."

Scientists, federal officials and others had predicted for decades the potential for a Katrina-like disaster, with levees breaking and water swamping New Orleans, most of which sits below sea level.

Chertoff said FEMA is not equipped to send large numbers of people to help during a disaster.

Instead, he said, "FEMA basically plugs in to the existing state and local infrastructure. What happened here was, essentially, the demolishment of that state and local infrastructure and, I think, that really caused a cascading series of breakdowns."

The lessons from Katrina may result in a change in the way FEMA responds to such emergencies, moving from playing a supportive role to playing a more central role, he said.

Asked whether the government could have done a better job, he responded, "I think, when we go back and look at this, we're going to see a lot of things we put in place worked well; there are some things which did not work well."

Source - Times-Picayune: Everybody at FEMA should be fired

[udon]

The radio interview with mayor Ray Fagin is a classic.

It's the 1st time I've heard an American pollie tell it like it is....!

Mayor Ray Nagin's voice cracked with anger and anguish Thursday night in an interview with New Orleans radio station WWL-AM. (Hear the mayor tell feds to 'get off their asses' -- 12:09.)

Ray Fagin

Transcript if you have a poor connection.

Edited September 5, 2005 by udon

[calibanjr.]

Does anyone doubt that at least some of the money that had been requested (and denied) for shoring up the levee has ended up in the pockets of Bush's cronies (Halliburton, et. al.) as part of the fleecing in Iraq.

Does anyone doubt that far fewer people would have died if the LA and AL Guard units that are in Iraq, were at home, where they should be, given the mandate of the "National Guard"

The question I'm waiting to hear voiced by ANYONE in the media:

Given the heinously incompetent reaction to this predictable natural disaster we saw coming on radar for days, how would this administration's vaunted "Homeland Security Department" have reacted to a terrorist attack (say a dirty bomb and blowing the levee) with no foresight or time to react at all?

DD

[udon]

Could someone explain the pecking order in US police and or Sheriff's depts.

It's a bit confusing for outsiders when we read of "deputies" deserting.

Are they part-time cops?

Maybe Ray23 could explain.

Thanks.

[chownah]

Could someone explain the pecking order in US police and or Sheriff's depts.

It's a bit confusing for outsiders when we read of "deputies" deserting.

Are they part-time cops?

Maybe Ray23 could explain.

Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the US most law inforcement is administered by local gov't. Traditionally the term 'police' was used for law enforcement officers of cities and towns and the term 'sheriff' was used for law enforcement officers of counties....police serve more urban areas and sheriffs served more rural areas....a 'deputy' is short for 'deputy sheriff' which is like a lower rank of sheriff and a deputy sheriff will have a sheriff as his/her boss. In the last 30 years or so there has been a change in demographics in the US so that now there are large 'bedroom' communities that have grown around urban areas and these huge neighborhoods are not contained in any city or town....they have no city administration to provide fire dept's or police dept's so now some counties have created county police forces to patrol these areas.

The exact details and structure varies from state to state, city to city, and county to county because the laws governing these law enforcement agencies are state, city, and county laws, not federal laws. The State of Louisiana (New Orleans is in Louisiana) is different in that it has Parishes (I think) which I think are like counties...but I am not familiar with their system so I'm hoping someone who knows specifically about Louisiana will come on board and fill us both in. Louisiana is very different because the French colonized Louisiana and developed the city of New Orleans before they sold it to the US and so it has inherited the French administrative system and I believe that its the only state in the US that has this history.

Edited September 5, 2005 by chownah

[Galong]

Given the heinously incompetent reaction to this predictable natural disaster we saw coming on radar for days,  how would this administration's vaunted "Homeland Security Department" have reacted to a terrorist attack (say a dirty bomb and blowing the levee) with no foresight or time to react at all?

DD

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You hit an extremely important nerve. What if?? What if G W had to deal with a dirty bomb? Gee, he has such a great track record that I'm sure he'd call daddy and figure out a way to make himself look competent

It seems like the items I listed in my original posting are becoming realities. The reality still is that they had warning and the MANAGEMENT failed to draw up a plan or initiate an existing plan in a timely and professional manner.

The likes of jrincon17 who said, "you know we are better off here without people like you . You actually made me sick. Focker" Hmm, he/she should read more news. I am finding news from many sources that are all questioning the response to the disaster by the government (local, state and federal). One interesting article I read this morning is from Japan. Check out http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=8&id=348159 This article really puts the race issue to the front of the tragedy.

There seems to be many differnt news sources all now realizing that the handling of the rescue was not timely and was not fair.

And jrincon17 also said, "Is there a way to ban him for being so stupid ?" Man, who is this person? Why can't he/she understand that there are these things call opinions and opposing views. Ban me from expressing my view?? Who are you, the Prime Minister?

I now wonder how much face has the US gov lost in the eyes of the international community over this mismanaged tragedy?

Again, I am NOT disrespecting the rescuers and individuals who are doing their absolute best to help those in need. My heart goes out to all of them. They are the heros in this horrific disaster.

[calibanjr.]

Holy cow! The first person of note I've seen ask the question I've been asking turns out to be bat-shit crazy Newt!

"I think it puts into question all of the Homeland Security and Northern Command planning for the last four years, because if we can't respond faster than this to an event we saw coming across the Gulf for days, then why do we think we're prepared to respond to a nuclear or biological attack?" said former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.