Thai Work Permit Key To 14Year Slave Ordeal Of Ukrainian Man: DSI

[Jirapa]

Sometimes, it's hard to know whether to laugh or cry.

Just under 1,800 Baht a month isn't it?

I think most members do not read the article,they just start commenting ?

This case is about:1/ a slave.....asked to show his workpermit????????

2/ a factory "employing"slaves without workpermits????

3/ un unpaid slave doing unpaid labor without WP?

4/ a slave factory allergique to WP and payouts??????????

5/ r u still here????????

No - I read it just fine thank you.

Like I say - hard to know whether to laugh or cry. At both the DSIs statements and yours.

I shall explain for those that cannot see where this is headed...

This is the start of the process to allow the factory owner to get off without as much as a slap on the wrist.

It'll end up being settled as a misunderstanding about work permits. More info will soon come out about salaries actually being held by the employer to give to their employee when the pesky WP issue got cleard up. Of course they weren't enslaving him, they needed his passport for the WP issue but they couldn't pay him as he didn't have his WP. They just held the money for him.

All charges will be dropped and we won't get news of that when it occurs.

What for 14 years? Even if they were holding his passport for his WP application that would mean that they took on the responsibility to get the WP paperwork signed and sorted which can be done in a day at the regional office! 300000B suggests he was paid "poorly" for the duration of one work permit so where are the other 13 years of WPs? "Oh we forgot to put the application in!" Yeah right and don't believe the testimony made by his Burmese refugee coworkers as they'll say anything to keep the boss man happy as they don't want to loose there jobs and be sent home. It's called duress! Owner might not go to prison but he'll have some heavy penalties to pay and compensation. If Human Trafficking sticks he's going down!

[TheGhostWithin]

So it's the foreigner's fault for working without at WP . Somehow I know that this would be the case.

Sorry I don't get you? The factory has been charged with hiring a foreigner without a work permit and not paying him. He's been charged for nothing and they're looking into charging the factory for human trafficking. Get your facts right!

Both you and he are looking at two different sides of the glass. I understand your logical point of view, the factory owner is being charged (possibly, nothing is confirmed).

What Otherstuff was stating, is that it is a light penalty for a very serious and horrific sounding situation for the Ukranian man. The attitude by some Thais, and an issue for many years from the Thai government, is that Farangs are dispensible, and maybe even worth less than a Thai. The process of getting a visa, the laws surrounding ownership of business and property are testiment to this issue. Here, you are not even allowed to apply for a job without a work permit. Employing smoeone without a work permit is a crime and the business would be fined heavily, the worker deported.

The DSI have basically said that the Farang deserved not to be paid, because he had no work permit. I am sure, someone as highly skilled as it sounds he is (he is some sort of engineer if I recall from the original story) would not enjoy working without a permit. Ask many English teachers, whose employers also refuse to get work permits for them (to avoid cost, or because they already employ too many foreigners vs thai ratio). Are they also in the wrong? They are providing the work of the same quality with or without the permit, it is the employer who is:

a) employing the person without a permit, and ;

not following their own countries laws in giving the farang the opportunity to work legally

For too long, the Thai establishment has been taking advantage of Farang who love the culture.. I wonder if that is why now Thailand is shrinking in popularity (it is, no matter what any government group will tell you), and Vietnam, Cambodia and the Phillippines are growing. Go figure. I love Thailand, but I do not love the way that some are cheated by the government.

[jbrewer]

something tells me we will never find out the truth

[pedro01]

The DSI have basically said that the Farang deserved not to be paid, because he had no work permit.

BINGO !!

[Derifo]

So it's the foreigner's fault for working without at WP . Somehow I know that this would be the case.

And that will always be the case here.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Sometimes, it's hard to know whether to laugh or cry.

Just under 1,800 Baht a month isn't it?

I think most members do not read the article,they just start commenting ?

This case is about:1/ a slave.....asked to show his workpermit????????

2/ a factory "employing"slaves without workpermits????

3/ un unpaid slave doing unpaid labor without WP?

4/ a slave factory allergique to WP and payouts??????????

5/ r u still here????????

Is "allergique" an allergy you get in France?????????

[Jirapa]

So it's the foreigner's fault for working without at WP . Somehow I know that this would be the case.

Sorry I don't get you? The factory has been charged with hiring a foreigner without a work permit and not paying him. He's been charged for nothing and they're looking into charging the factory for human trafficking. Get your facts right!

Both you and he are looking at two different sides of the glass. I understand your logical point of view, the factory owner is being charged (possibly, nothing is confirmed).

What Otherstuff was stating, is that it is a light penalty for a very serious and horrific sounding situation for the Ukranian man. The attitude by some Thais, and an issue for many years from the Thai government, is that Farangs are dispensible, and maybe even worth less than a Thai. The process of getting a visa, the laws surrounding ownership of business and property are testiment to this issue. Here, you are not even allowed to apply for a job without a work permit. Employing smoeone without a work permit is a crime and the business would be fined heavily, the worker deported.

The DSI have basically said that the Farang deserved not to be paid, because he had no work permit. I am sure, someone as highly skilled as it sounds he is (he is some sort of engineer if I recall from the original story) would not enjoy working without a permit. Ask many English teachers, whose employers also refuse to get work permits for them (to avoid cost, or because they already employ too many foreigners vs thai ratio). Are they also in the wrong? They are providing the work of the same quality with or without the permit, it is the employer who is:

a) employing the person without a permit, and ;

not following their own countries laws in giving the farang the opportunity to work legally

For too long, the Thai establishment has been taking advantage of Farang who love the culture.. I wonder if that is why now Thailand is shrinking in popularity (it is, no matter what any government group will tell you), and Vietnam, Cambodia and the Phillippines are growing. Go figure. I love Thailand, but I do not love the way that some are cheated by the government.

Rubbish you have to have to been accepted for employment first by a company then you apply for the work permit and don't start the job until you have one. Usually the company or school will do that for you so it's simple administration and most applicants are accepted so long as they are skilled workers with experience or the right qualifications. Of course you can apply for a job without a WP otherwise how would so many foreign teachers and expats get jobs here applying from abroad. There not going to buy a work permit without knowing which field they'll be working in nor without the guarantee of a job. That would be like pissing in the wind!

Getting a visa is easy if you have a business here or a wife so why should Thailand be handing out open ended visas to ferrang who want to spend their lives here on holiday with a limited budget? That's the same all over the world as most countries have a limit on the length of stay for tourist visas! We're not Thai this is not our country and if we don't meet the immigration requirements then we have to leave and come back later which so long as we don't break any laws we're always welcome to come back.

I'm in my 40s, married twice to Thais, have been here for 10 years, not rich but can prove an income of at least 40000B a month and I've always been welcomed with open arms by immigration as have my ferrang mates who own businesses here.

[Tokay]

Jesus. Poor guy.

They take his passport, threaten to kill him, and because of this his work visa expires and is kept a slave, only to have the courts rule that HE was in the wrong.

Amazing Thailand.

[leebeeUK]

Yes, the case will be dropped. Yes, owner & worker are both loopy. I'm sure the family missed him and I'm sure that there is more facts than fiction here but somehow fiction is always a better read! So forget the facts and just enjoy the FICTION that surrounds the alleged enslavement of this guy. Good make a good film me thinks? Title U Cranuim held captive. (Sub title - plenty of bone but where is thye brain?)

Think that's pretty much it really!! Everybody concered are bonkers!!! Meanwhile everyone one here's getting all irate and typically high-horsed and 'poor little farang guy' about some story which just doesn't ring from anyone's point of view, anyway, so why bother? ('Anyone for a 14 year factory shift? wibble!')

[dighambara]

So it's the foreigner's fault for working without at WP . Somehow I know that this would be the case.

Of course it's the foreigner that have to get his documents in order before starting work! Some companies assist in getting the work permit, but it is certainly not their task to get a permit.

Place of work must provide documents so that worker can obtain neccessary documents for work permit, but if a worker does not have a work permit then it is the EMPLOYERS responsibility to NOT let them work.

Bottom line= no work permit no work full stop.

Yes it must be like that.

As far as I understand, there is no link between PAY and WORK permit. Pay is a matter between you and your boss or organisation to which you volunteer your time. What is clear is that you cannot work without a WP.

The question remains; why did he work? Both he and his employer knew he had no WP. I guess from what we read that if he didn’t work he didn’t eat. So the employer did force him to work.

The employer is culpable.

The worker in this case must be loony or chained if he couldn’t get away.

The last line says it all. No Passport, go to Embassy and tell them the story. In such cases most embassies will allow citizens fugitive status. The US Embassy has been known to reissue passports and intercede to sent the citizen home.

However, if chained or jailed at the factory to work for food, then the above scenario is useless.

[TAWP]

The DSI have basically said that the Farang deserved not to be paid, because he had no work permit.

BINGO !!

It doesn't matter, DSI has nothing to do with labour issues and have no say in regards to back-pay of salary. It is up to the labour court and they will grant you full back-pay no-matter if you have a WP or not. They really don't care, as WP isn't a labour issue.

So - no, no bingo.

[Jirapa]

Jesus. Poor guy.

They take his passport, threaten to kill him, and because of this his work visa expires and is kept a slave, only to have the courts rule that HE was in the wrong.

Amazing Thailand.

Who's ruled he was in the wrong? It hasn't even gone to court yet and it looks like his employers will be going to court as they've been charged on 2 counts and possibly a third for People Trafficking and he hasn't been charged with anything. Can you lot read?

[HC82]

I never understand these withholding of passport claims. That is a crime. All he has to do is go to the police and say 'they have my passport' and the police would contact them and force them to give it back - or arrest them.

You always hear this in forced labor claims and its <deleted>.

[cMe2]

I wonder if he is owed any sick pay and/or holiday pay?

[moskito]

Sometimes, it's hard to know whether to laugh or cry.

Just under 1,800 Baht a month isn't it?

so what does he want? Its close to 5.-Baht/hour

with financial penaltys this high its worthwhile

[TAWP]

I never understand these withholding of passport claims. That is a crime. All he has to do is go to the police and say 'they have my passport' and the police would contact them and force them to give it back - or arrest them.

You always hear this in forced labor claims and its <deleted>.

It might be a crime in for example the UK but is it a crime in Uganda? Peru? Indonesia?

And don't expect everyone else to know.

[MaiChai]

welcomed with open arms by immigration? wow, i have never had that; did they give you hugs and kisses too? I thought you were just a number?

[metisdead]

Some nonsensical off topic posts have been removed.

[tombkk]

So it's the foreigner's fault for working without at WP . Somehow I know that this would be the case.

Of course it's the foreigner that have to get his documents in order before starting work! Some companies assist in getting the work permit, but it is certainly not their task to get a permit.

Well, it is. Sorry to disappoint you, but the work permit will be applied for by the company after they have accepted you for work. This is certainly different from other countries. Welcome to Thailand.