Western Women Are Happier Blind?

[Boo]

[sanmig]

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't they recently run an article advocating "intelligent design" over evolution?

Yes, you are wrong. And no, you can't come up with any facts to make any argument. The world is real.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Re-read the wikipedia article bud. Or, perhaps, i should say, read it for the first time.

No wonder people say things to you. It isn't about the age difference at all!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What?

Newscientist.com never ran any article advocating intelligent design. Wikepedia has nothing to do with that. Show me the article on newscientist.com. I read newscientist.com all the time and would remember if they ever took such a silly stance. Show me wrong, but don't show me Wikepedia. Google cashes pages, so if they ever ran such an article, find it. Silly person.

[tripperj]

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't they recently run an article advocating "intelligent design" over evolution?

Yes, you are wrong. And no, you can't come up with any facts to make any argument. The world is real.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Re-read the wikipedia article bud. Or, perhaps, i should say, read it for the first time.

No wonder people say things to you. It isn't about the age difference at all!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Boo]

sanmig, If you can't handle an argument then don't start one & if someone doesn't agree with you, do not start name calling.

Your argument is all over the place, you have no original thought of your own, as the first post was a copy from another board & another poster.

You are now spouting scientific texts as the basis of your argument (whatever it is) you complain that western women look down on you as you are older than your girlfriend then say thay you prefer younger women to older women yourself, so who is the hypocrite here? You can't have it both ways, people look down on you but then you are also looking down on them, so you deserve it IMO as you obviously feel superior to women.

You then complain to me about using the nature argument then try to use it yourself in quoting these scientific texts about how women can't read maps. I mean really, is there an original thought anywhere in your head?

If there isn't then please don't post again, my patience with you is wearing thin, we usually ban these posts immediately & ban the person posting them as well but I decided to give you a chance,my mistake.

[sbk]

Pardon me, Wikipedia is not google, it is an online encyclopedia. Coming up with "facts" does not in anyway make your attitude less bigoted and ugly.

You started out being incredibly nasty towards western women (hence the title) and then continued on to show your true colors: anti-women in general. You insult half the populations intelligence by saying that women (note you did not say Western Women or Thai women) are almost incapable of thinking individually.

I say again, if you had posted similar tripe about Thai people or Black people you would clearly be a racist. So, why do you think that it is somehow acceptable since your bigotry is targeted against women?

[sanmig]

Pardon me, Wikipedia is not google, it is an online encyclopedia. Coming up with "facts" does not in anyway make your attitude less bigoted and ugly.

You started out being incredibly  nasty towards western women (hence the title) and then continued on to show your true colors: anti-women in general. You insult half the populations intelligence by saying that women (note you did not say Western Women or Thai women) are almost incapable of thinking individually.

I say again, if you had posted similar tripe about Thai people or Black people you would clearly be a racist.  So, why do you think that it is somehow acceptable since your bigotry is targeted against women?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I get the feeling that if I reply to you or Boo I will be banned.

[Boo]

not if it makes sense unlike your last 16 posts.

[alaina]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to say that partners shouldn't be equal, but that if a man or woman chooses to be financially dependent, that submissive role has a whole context around it. Men and women are encultured with different ideas of entitlement. Women think that pussy is money, and a real man will fork up one way or another. That's fine, if that attitude comes with it's proper flip side of forking over power as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's funny how people often get what they expect from life.

If you are comfortable thinking of a relationship in terms of trading sex and cooking for money that's your prerogative. It's easy to quantify and then put into a cost-benefit ratio.

I think it is discomforting to say the least and dehumanizing no matter what the terms used to put people in close relationships into this formula.

Perhaps some women want more options than being told that they supply these services and that's their job. Women who want more and can't have it also often put unhealthy demands on their families to live vicariously through. Even if a woman "can't read a map" she isn't necessarily stupid. At least if a woman has an option other than housewife, the women who become housewives are more likely to want that.

So women in some places are winning the right to want more. Some men are sophisticated enough to see that it isn't a threat to them. Yes, it makes things more complicated. Jobs, chores, money and sex are all more complicated than they used to be in this arrangement.

Call it sentimental, but some people want is a mutually respectful, loving relationship that allows both people to be the humans they are. Not ATMs, not maids, not willing bodies. Complicated may be worth it for them, and if you want everybody's tolerance on your attitude why not be tolerant of others'.

Want what you want, but understand that some women don't find the type of guy who's attitude is, "womens fer screwin' and cookin', mens fer workin' and drinken'" at all cute. Some other woman may put up with that but I still can find it sad.

I don't know why in Thailand you feel so upset by such a small minority. It's not like we hand out flyers and have secret meetings to undermine these relationships. If the OP was originally yours, I'd tell you to tell any Thai women that doesn't like talking to Western women to not talk to them. Really, my First Graders learned this last week.

Things for (Thai) women in Thailand may change and it will likely to be from Western influence and money. But foreign women are such a minority that if it's anybody's influence and money, it's men’s.

[sanmig]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it is discomforting to say the least and dehumanizing no matter what the terms used to put people in close relationships into this formula. 

So women in some places are winning the right to want more.  Some men are sophisticated enough to see that it isn't a threat to them. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course women and men should expect and demand equality. And I don't think women should assume any role. What I was trying to say was that if a partner decides to be financially dependent, that has an effect on the power dynamics of the relationship. Relationship is give and take, so if a partner takes money, generally they will want to supply something in return. If the woman chooses not to work, she will usually assume some other way to contribute her efforts to the household. I would resent a relationship where this were not so.

Edited September 10, 2005 by sanmig

[gintOnic]

My head is still spinning from trying to read that....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I assume you have done reading the post - could you help to summarize them in to one line for me?

gintOnic

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can summarise for you.

Its says blah blah blah i hate women, blah blah blah, they think i am fat and ugly, blah blah blah, why doesnt anyone like me, blah blah blah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

daleyboy, thanks for the summary you are soOooOoo kind !!

But do women really always have such thoughts? I don't think it is the fat or ugliness but must be the blah blah blah that chase them away? We all know women prefer talking to listening!

gintOnic

Edited September 10, 2005 by gintonic

[alaina]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it is discomforting to say the least and dehumanizing no matter what the terms used to put people in close relationships into this formula. 

So women in some places are winning the right to want more.  Some men are sophisticated enough to see that it isn't a threat to them. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course women and men should expect and demand equality. And I don't think women should assume any role. What I was trying to say was that if a partner decides to be financially dependent, that has an effect on the power dynamics of the relationship. Relationship is give and take, so if a partner takes money, generally they will want to supply something in return. If the woman chooses not to work, she will usually assume some other way to contribute her efforts to the household. I would resent a relationship where this were not so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've been in a position of working while my ex was unemployed and I made the money. I'd leave and come home ten hours later to find not even one butt cheek moved an inch from in front of the computer. My first thought was, "What's wrong?" My second thought was, "Why aren't you doing anything with your life, what is wrong!" Then I'd cook dinner and talk about therapy.

My concern was the foremost thing. If I was tired after working, I'd ask for help. This can break a relationship because being with somebody who does nothing becomes, "Why am I weighting my life down with somebody who is not helping them self." Someone who does nothing and has no life isn't particularly interesting to chat with over dinner either.

"I'm not getting a return on my investment" is not a way I think is healthy in a relationship. Loving and helping who we can because it's the right thing to do and is good for everybody.

[alaina]

My head is still spinning from trying to read that....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I assume you have done reading the post - could you help to summarize them in to one line for me?

gintOnic

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can summarise for you.

Its says blah blah blah i hate women, blah blah blah, they think i am fat and ugly, blah blah blah, why doesnt anyone like me, blah blah blah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

daleyboy, thanks for the summary you are soOooOoo kind !!

But do women really always have such thoughts? I don't think it is the fat or ugliness but must be his blah blah blah that chase them away?

gintOnic

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This thread is getting better and better for quotables! So simple and yet so insightful.

[gintOnic]

daleyboy, thanks for the summary you are soOooOoo kind !! 

But do women really always have such thoughts? I don't think it is the fat or ugliness but must be his blah blah blah that chase them away? 

gintOnic 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This thread is getting better and better for quotables! So simple and yet so insightful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If it is so then why it gave you such sad face? :D

gintOnic

Edited September 10, 2005 by gintonic

[alaina]

If it is so then why it gave you such sad face? 

gintOnic

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because I'm so beclempt. Talk amongst yourselves...

[thaibebop]

Pardon me, Wikipedia is not google, it is an online encyclopedia. Coming up with "facts" does not in anyway make your attitude less bigoted and ugly.

You started out being incredibly  nasty towards western women (hence the title) and then continued on to show your true colors: anti-women in general. You insult half the populations intelligence by saying that women (note you did not say Western Women or Thai women) are almost incapable of thinking individually.

I say again, if you had posted similar tripe about Thai people or Black people you would clearly be a racist.  So, why do you think that it is somehow acceptable since your bigotry is targeted against women?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I get the feeling that if I reply to you or Boo I will be banned.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe that in itself says something?

[Mr. Farang]

"Everything in life has two qualities  (1)  The quality which makes something "attractive" or "unattractive" and (2) the "penalty" one pays for either being "attracted" or "unattracted" to something.  This is true for beauty, youth, education, money, status, power, health - indeed every quality.

Once again, respect for you communication ability, Mr. Falang. You took a vast and complicated subject and distilled it into a simple, easy to understand and to remember image. Is that an original idea? It was helpful to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for your kind words. The origin of the idea in my post(s) is the Buddha, summarized in Pali texts on the subject of "attachment". The Buddha taught his followers that "like" and "dislike" are both attachments to mental formations, and both forms of attachments cause suffering. For example, when a person strongly "likes" something (any object, person, place, thing, idea, etc.) , then they suffer when they lose (or are far away),. from the object of their desire. Likewise, when someone strongly "dislikes" something, they suffer when they are close to that object. So, both "like" and "dislike" are the same facets of clinging and attachment - suffering because you "like" and suffering because you "dislike" are the same.... suffering.

The Buddha also taught that, every "object" (of attachment) has two qualities (1) the quality which makes something attractive (sorry, I forgot the Pali word for this... somthing like "atsatta" and (2) the "penalty" we pay for "clinging" to that object (sorry, also forgot the exact Pali form of this concept, somethink like the "attinnawa") . People who practice Insight Meditation begin to readily see these two qualities in all things people are "attached to"... and then after this Insight is developed, one begins to see this readily in everyday life. The result is that "clinging" begins (naturally) to dissolve as wisdom and insight are developed.

I refrain from discussing (these Buddhist concepts) further in this thread, as there are surely many people in this thread who care very little about dusty *old* Pali texts and the teachings of the Buddha. On the other hand, when we are discussing concepts relative to Thailand, it is very hard to distinguish the day-to-day culture and the influences of thousands of years of Buddhist thought. I kindly advise people that if they truly want to understand Thailand, they must understand two things, at a minimum (1) the language and (2) Theravada Buddhism - it is simply not possible to understand the many facets of Thai culture without both pillars, or foundations.

For example, in Thailand, it is considered a "weakness" to be overly attached to beauty and form, whereas respect for elders (and teachers) is considered very, very important. In the West, the values are almost opposite, where elders are abandoned for youth and the "Madison Avenue" culture of video and beauty dominate. It does not surprise me to hear people from the West talk distainfully about older people, it is how they are "wired" to think. On the other hand, Thai culture is traditionally "wired" differently.

For many this is a complex subject.... and I think it is best for me not to "hijack" the current social order in this thread with Buddhist wisdom. My response is simply to show the proper respect for the origin of (the ideas in) my (earlier) post in this thread and to graciously give thanks to the person (the Buddha) who is the true origin of this insight - in response to your kind query.

Edited September 11, 2005 by Mr. Farang

[The Man]

Great reply Mr. Falang!

In answer to Boo's question, a 25 year old woman is going to be much more attractive to me than a 50 year old woman, all other things being equal.  At this point I'm generally no longer interested in dating older women.  Perhaps I now put too much emphasis on age, for who I am personally attracted to.  I have had several serious relationships with women from 11 to 18 years older than me though.  At the age of 34 my fiance was 45.  At age 29 my girfriend was 48.  At age 24 my then wife was 12 years older. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah man, you are so rite!! those young woman are so cute, i gotta get me one every time, innit I like yur stile, who needs older ones when young one everywere

dat Sanmik man goes were it is alright, he is like good you no! he has got those prioritys rite

everytime I go to any bar, its the yung ones i like a lot, same price to

mind you, if his wife was so old, wat the ###### is he going on about, like he cares??

I fink he is just a bar boy at heart, giving all those thai cuties wat they want, hahaha, munny innit

like he is inteligent to, talks like a propper geezer like, and nos what life is about

so respect man, and keep those yung ones in the cash

[The Gentleman Scamp]

A bitter and long winded rant that is probably based on a few negative experiences.

Cheer up mate, there are some fantastic women out there, western and otherwise, and the ones who make assumptions about expats and who can't contribute anything more than gossip or decorative conversation are not worth giving a monkeys toss about.

So there.

[SiamOne]

A bitter and long winded rant that is probably based on a few negative experiences.

Cheer up mate, there are some fantastic women out there, western and otherwise, and the ones who make assumptions about expats and who can't contribute anything more than gossip or decorative conversation are not worth giving a monkeys toss about.

So there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sounds true, although what is a monkeys toss like?

[thaibebop]

Great reply Mr. Falang!

In answer to Boo's question, a 25 year old woman is going to be much more attractive to me than a 50 year old woman, all other things being equal.  At this point I'm generally no longer interested in dating older women.  Perhaps I now put too much emphasis on age, for who I am personally attracted to.  I have had several serious relationships with women from 11 to 18 years older than me though.  At the age of 34 my fiance was 45.  At age 29 my girfriend was 48.  At age 24 my then wife was 12 years older. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah man, you are so rite!! those young woman are so cute, i gotta get me one every time, innit I like yur stile, who needs older ones when young one everywere

dat Sanmik man goes were it is alright, he is like good you no! he has got those prioritys rite

everytime I go to any bar, its the yung ones i like a lot, same price to

mind you, if his wife was so old, wat the ###### is he going on about, like he cares??

I fink he is just a bar boy at heart, giving all those thai cuties wat they want, hahaha, munny innit

like he is inteligent to, talks like a propper geezer like, and nos what life is about

so respect man, and keep those yung ones in the cash

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh Boy.

[Dragonman]

A bitter and long winded rant that is probably based on a few negative experiences.

Cheer up mate, there are some fantastic women out there, western and otherwise, and the ones who make assumptions about expats and who can't contribute anything more than gossip or decorative conversation are not worth giving a monkeys toss about.

So there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sounds true, although what is a monkeys toss like?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's quick, and you don't want to have your face too close to him.

[thedude]

A question;

If there was a charming, clever, wonderful attractive women of 50 & a young, attractive, clever & charming women of 25, who would the average 50y/o man choose??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Older women want a partner to take care of them, but also want to continue with their former life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, that was succinct and accurate. Yeah, I had the same experience with my older ex fiance. She wanted me to take care of her and to play house, but told me that she felt too old to uproot herself and travel with me. My new GF would go anywhere with me. It seems that Asian women understand the whole package of being dependent better than western women, who want the best of both chivalry and emancipation. The Asian women I've known did better with the gestalt of playing house, and found their power and generosity comfortably within that limited role. For instance my girlfriend expresses her devotion to our relationship with the way she chops vegetables. She never asks me to help her. Her little chopping motions fill our house with love, and you can feel her respect for our shared love in her share of our mutual endeavor. My ex wife wanted me to earn all the money and share in all her chores, as if housework was a political statement. Not to say that partners shouldn't be equal, but that if a man or woman chooses to be financially dependent, that submissive role has a whole context around it. Men and women are encultured with different ideas of entitlement. Women think that pussy is money, and a real man will fork up one way or another. That's fine, if that attitude comes with it's proper flip side of forking over power as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sanmig....those words, they are so beautiful, "...my girlfriend expresses her devotion to our relationship with the way she chops vegetables. She never asks me to help her. Her little chopping motions fill our house with love..."

that is the most richly descriptive, sentimental and evocative passage i've read in TV in a long time, if not ever. like a scene from an arthouse movie.

dude, that is such, poetry.

thanks.

Edited September 12, 2005 by thedude

[sanmig]

A bitter and long winded rant that is probably based on a few negative experiences.

Cheer up mate, there are some fantastic women out there, western and otherwise, and the ones who make assumptions about expats and who can't contribute anything more than gossip or decorative conversation are not worth giving a monkeys toss about.

So there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The OP was a reply to a stickmanbangkok.com submission by a woman, who expressed some ideas I've heard a bagillion times. I admit, it was long winded and rambling. But I enjoy trying to get my thoughts in order by writing, so the effort was worth it, to me. And as a member of community earth, putting out my two cents isn't just nothing, if they are decent cents. Maybe one person will think about gossiping less and thinking about why they have the beliefs they do before rushing out to change someone else's. I thought that the line about the difference between gossip and conversation was worth expressing. If no one is touched, I tried, and I enjoy trying. Being succinct and cogent will take more practice.

[sanmig]

sanmig....those words, they are so beautiful, "...my girlfriend expresses her devotion to our relationship with the way she chops vegetables.  She never asks me to help her.  Her little chopping motions fill our house with love..."

that is the most richly descriptive, sentimental and evocative passage i've read in TV in a long time, if not ever.  like a scene from an arthouse movie.

dude, that is such, poetry.

thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the word appreciation, Dude.

I never considered wifely duties as anything meaningful until after watching her for a few months. The way she takes care of me IS meaningful. I still encourage her to read and maybe take some dancing or cooking classes, maybe go back to school if she is up for it, but I have a new feeling for housekeeping. I had never seen anyone express love and care through it; do it because they want to. It is like giving a massage - some people are so great at it because they love to give in that way. The act becomes meaningful in the care and attention and generosity that it expresses. I have never seen this attitude towards sweeping and washing and cooking and ironing in anyone else.

And she is very comfortable being submissive. I mean that in the best possible way. Her being submissive is not a role or act nor does it diminish her. I play submissive to her also, often, and it feels like I'm being her love-slave; another flavor of love. Generally though, I'm the older father figure, and she wants and needs the firm hand. I had never understood that equality in all things is not always the best and only way to relate with a mate. Now I'm certain it is not; balance is what is important.

Edited September 12, 2005 by sanmig

[girlx]

i started to read this topic but gave up after getting halfway through the list of fallacies and stereotypes about western women by the OP... so i won't even bother to read through or try and refute them, i think they speak for themselves.

[sanmig]

The Buddha also taught that, every "object" (of attachment) has two qualities (1) the quality which makes something attractive (sorry, I forgot the Pali word for this... somthing like "atsatta"  and (2) the "penalty" we pay for  "clinging" to that object (sorry, also forgot the exact Pali form of this concept, somethink like the "attinnawa") .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've done a lot of Buddhist practice and study, but I don't recall coming across the idea that there are specific penalties for specific types of desire. I can imagine for instance that a desire for wealth often brings with it being overwhelmed by the wealth creation machine you have to whore yourself to. I gave up 8 years of my life to constantly thinking about and striving for wealth. People put in long work hours in order to be able to afford a vacation that they need because of the long work hours. Living cheaper can free up a lot of the demand for money and give more time, and ultimately pleasure.

Being attracted to beauty? I suppose I'm less able to be sexually attracted to the ugly, and that is my penalty. Ha ha. That is only partly a joke - desire is to be transcended, not eliminated, is my understanding. Desire is a good thing - or at minimum has many positive aspects, if it is not wholly identified with. And I don't just mean that desire for enlightmenment is good. Sexual desire can also be of benefit to oneself and others. Obviously my Buddhist background is Tantric, but the thoughts are just observations of the things I've learned and the ways I've changed being positively influenced by desire.