Miguels Done By The Bib Last Night

[Dante99]

it is certainly not 'just one day'. you obviously don't live in Chiang Mai. It happens a number of days a year on Buddhist holdays and Royal Birthdays and this year being an election year we stand to lose two whole weekends business. Let's hope Mr. Suthep is correct in stating that the election will be in June - the depths of the low season. No-one tells our landlady that we don't have to pay rent for the days we don't earn any money. no-one tells the electric company not to charge us for the electricity that runs our freezers which have to be left on even if we close. And most particularly what about our staff? Are we supposed to tell them to go and get their lost wages back from the government? Fat chance! Or do you propose that we pay them even if we don't earn any money? It's not about customers doing without drink for 'just one day' (Although if you're on a 2 week holiday you're likely to be pretty miffed at having to stay in your hotel room for the evening.) It's about small businesses struggling already under the weight of the strong baht and political turmoil, trying to make ends meet.

You should rethink your comment!

If you decide to do business with such laws affecting it you need to accept it or get into something else.

Did you not know about the no alcohol on buddhist holidays, and the fickleness of Thai law to change (no drinking during election days) beforehand?

No, we didn't know! when we opened 5 years ago, under Thai law we were only required to refrain from selling alcohol on the Saturday night before an election and even then there was an assumption that Farang orientated places could serve beer in coffee cups/tea pots etc

Now 5 years later, we can potentially lose 5 nights weekend trade for every election- and that's not just national elections - its every local parish council by-election, plus 4 Buddhist holidays plus 2 Royal birthdays. thats up to half a months lost trade. We run a small business and we work hard at it. We have to keep prices down in this difficult economic climate for our customers. It may be that some large bars and pubs are so fantastically successful that they can afford to close and pay their staff and cover all the costs. But we can't! And many other small businesses can't. We've also lost trade through military coups, SARS, bird Flu, airport closures, various coloured shirts, terrible air quality etc etc...and we're still here. and thriving. There have been some very thoughtful contributions to this thread and some really crass ones. Yours Sir, falls into the latter category.

Yeh, being in business is tough, a lot of problems, got to work hard, be flexible, creative, and very careful about your assumptions. There was one guy in CM who started a business and became successful then he lost a lot of trade because he complained repeatedly about his business problems which were caused by others according to his claims. He lost more trade by complaining than by all the problems. I suppose he is still successful by some measures.

[Loaded]

Thai laws are written by politicians corrupt to an extreme.

Thai laws are enforced by a police force regarded as an organised crime gang by the UN.

Thai laws are upheld by courts that are secretly filmed discussing the verdict before evidence is heard.

To say that Thai laws must be respected is ludicrous.

However, to live and run a business here, heads must be taken out of the ground.

[appropriate]

Thai laws are enforced by a police force regarded as an organised crime gang by the UN.

Ah, that old piece of barstool delusion.

Given the actual statement made (which mentioned neither a country, Thailand or anyother, nor a police force ), those in the judicial system of America are an organised crime gang too.

Edited February 20, 2011 by appropriate

[el jefe]

Knowing the law in Thailand is like knowing the tax code in the US

To say that bar owners should understand the system means you obviously dont have experience with "the system"

My "experience" with "the system" is that almost every other bar and restaurant in the area was closed that night, certainly most on Nimmanhaemin Sois 7, 9, and 11. I'm guessing the owner/manager of Miguel's knew exactly what "the system" was and took her chances. Sometimes you win and make a few baht. Sometimes not. It's not quite as complex as the US tax code.

Edited February 20, 2011 by el jefe

[uptheos]

Knowing the law in Thailand is like knowing the tax code in the US

To say that bar owners should understand the system means you obviously dont have experience with "the system"

My "experience" with "the system" is that almost every other bar and restaurant in the area was closed that night, certainly most on Nimmanhaemin Sois 7, 9, and 11. I'm guessing the owner/manager of Miguel's knew exactly what "the system" was and took her chances. Sometimes you win and make a few baht. Sometimes not. It's not quite as complex as the US tax code.

I'm not surprised considering it was the holiest holiday on the Buddhist calendar.....I think.

[millwall_fan]

The booze ban has in reality, nothing to do with Buddhism, or this being Buddhism's holiest day. Buddhism, to my limited knowledge, preaches the middle way and that only individual action can help one to achieve Nirvana - in effect an imposed alcohol ban is anti-Buddhist. The ban has been rairoaded through by the deputy health minister who has been on an anti booze kick since he was a minister in Thaksin's governmnent. As the ban doesn't effect the ruling elite no-one saw any need to stop him. Buddhism managed for years to observe its holiest day without recourse to compulsory alcohol bans. why does it need one now?

you really should think through these things Uptheos before simply taking an opposite stance for the sake of it! You're points are becoming laughable!

[uptheos]

The booze ban has in reality, nothing to do with Buddhism, or this being Buddhism's holiest day. Buddhism, to my limited knowledge, preaches the middle way and that only individual action can help one to achieve Nirvana - in effect an imposed alcohol ban is anti-Buddhist. The ban has been rairoaded through by the deputy health minister who has been on an anti booze kick since he was a minister in Thaksin's governmnent. As the ban doesn't effect the ruling elite no-one saw any need to stop him. Buddhism managed for years to observe its holiest day without recourse to compulsory alcohol bans. why does it need one now?

you really should think through these things Uptheos before simply taking an opposite stance for the sake of it! You're points are becoming laughable!

[quote)

Busy as usual eh?

[millwall_fan]

Actually we had a night off tonight. The wife went to the Walking street market, and I went for couple of pints at O'Malley's. Then we met up and went to the new 'Tiger Kigdom in Town' before coming back to find a full pub. Which means, yes, thank you, we've had quite a busy evening, Unlike yourself it would seem , whose trembling fingers seem to have been making pointless posts most of the evening. Has the wife got a headache?

[Mapguy]

I appreciate that Millwall has a small business to run, and he has justifiably been quite nervous about that over the past several months of grim economic times, but I am bewildered by a lot of the conversation on this and similar threads to it in the past, usually just after a "long" dry weekend, even a day !!! (I don't buy Millwall's complaint; get on with it, dude! Every country has drinking laws of one sort or other!)

What the heck! I like a drink every day, too. But what's with all the adolescent bitching and moaning? Were you denied cheetos in the school lunch room and can't get over it ?

About the the cheap shots on the BIB, aka "the cops." What are all these pot shot artists doing that they have some nasty insight into BIB behavior? Sounds like school kids complaining about teachers and the headmaster! I have been here a long time, I am not a missionary, certainly not a saint! Never a problem! What's yours ?!

[millwall_fan]

I appreciate that Millwall has a small business to run, and he has justifiably been quite nervous about that over the past several months of grim economic times, but I am bewildered by a lot of the conversation on this and similar threads to it in the past, usually just after a "long" dry weekend, even a day !!! (I don't buy Millwall's complaint; get on with it, dude! Every country has drinking laws of one sort or other!)

What the heck! I like a drink every day, too. But what's with all the adolescent bitching and moaning? Were you denied cheetos in the school lunch room and can't get over it ?

About the the cheap shots on the BIB, aka "the cops." What are all these pot shot artists doing that they have some nasty insight into BIB behavior? Sounds like school kids complaining about teachers and the headmaster! I have been here a long time, I am not a missionary, certainly not a saint! Never a problem! What's yours ?!

Groan! another Nemesis. I'm off to bed

[Tywais]

you really should think through these things Uptheos before simply taking an opposite stance for the sake of it! You're points are becoming laughable!

I found his comment quite valid. But as you said, you have limited knowledge. Might refresh your memory on the Fifth Precept.

According to Bikkhu Bodhi, violating the precept requires an intoxicant, an intention to take an intoxicant, the activity of ingesting the intoxicant, and the actual ingestion of the intoxicant. Taking medication containing alcohol, opiates or other intoxicants for genuine medical reasons does not count, nor does eating food flavored with a small amount of liquor. Otherwise, Theravada Buddhism considers the Fifth Precept to be a clear prohibition of drinking.

To drink liquore hurts only oneself, but selling hurts others and is a violation of the Bodhisattva vows.

Fifth Precept

[millwall_fan]

OK last call: Nothing that you post, Tywais or your link, invalidates what I said: Buddhism does not seek to impose its belief system on others. Your quote applies to Buddhists, not the rest of the population and as it was decided a couple of years ago not to make Buddhism the state religion here, the government should not be seeking to impose Buddhist values on the country as a whole. They can preach it and prospose it, but they shouldn't impose it.

I have never taken the Boddhisttva vows and therefore should not be bound by them. I respect anyone who chooses not to drink and I respect Buddhism too. One of the reasons i respect it is that is doesn't seek to impose its will on non adherants. Why should non Buddhists not have a drink on a Buddhist holiday? and if you think they shouldn't, why did tourism in Thailand manage 30 or 40 glorious years of selling alcohol before someone in the government decided that it was an affront to the religion?

Good night!!

[Mapguy]

Someone once told me that booze and religion don't mix! I think they were right, but not for the reasons they thought!

[Contractor]

OK last call: Nothing that you post, Tywais or your link, invalidates what I said: Buddhism does not seek to impose its belief system on others. Your quote applies to Buddhists, not the rest of the population and as it was decided a couple of years ago not to make Buddhism the state religion here, the government should not be seeking to impose Buddhist values on the country as a whole. They can preach it and prospose it, but they shouldn't impose it.

I have never taken the Boddhisttva vows and therefore should not be bound by them. I respect anyone who chooses not to drink and I respect Buddhism too. One of the reasons i respect it is that is doesn't seek to impose its will on non adherants. Why should non Buddhists not have a drink on a Buddhist holiday? and if you think they shouldn't, why did tourism in Thailand manage 30 or 40 glorious years of selling alcohol before someone in the government decided that it was an affront to the religion?

Good night!!

HI Millwall

Around the globe you will find many societies where the belief system of the majority of the population has found itself formulating common or statute law. Er, UK might be one of them.

I find Thais to be pretty tolerant, and I am sure you can operate your business from any angle. But please learn to respect the fact that you and your views are in the minority to the whole.

You call Buddhism a religion. I think this is the beginning of your misunderstanding.

In any event, you say that your business is "thriving", so it can't all be bad for you.

Good luck.

[Loaded]

Thai laws are enforced by a police force regarded as an organised crime gang by the UN.

Ah, that old piece of barstool delusion.

Given the actual statement made (which mentioned neither a country, Thailand or anyother, nor a police force ), those in the judicial system of America are an organised crime gang too.

http://www.upiasia.com/Human_Rights/2008/03/27/thai_police_are_best_organized_criminals/2369/

[WinnieTheKhwai]

OK last call: Nothing that you post, Tywais or your link, invalidates what I said: Buddhism does not seek to impose its belief system on others. Your quote applies to Buddhists, not the rest of the population and as it was decided a couple of years ago not to make Buddhism the state religion here, the government should not be seeking to impose Buddhist values on the country as a whole. They can preach it and prospose it, but they shouldn't impose it.

I have never taken the Boddhisttva vows and therefore should not be bound by them. I respect anyone who chooses not to drink and I respect Buddhism too. One of the reasons i respect it is that is doesn't seek to impose its will on non adherants. Why should non Buddhists not have a drink on a Buddhist holiday? and if you think they shouldn't, why did tourism in Thailand manage 30 or 40 glorious years of selling alcohol before someone in the government decided that it was an affront to the religion?

Good night!!

Great post Millwall!! Sums it up perfectly.

Also: "[The five Buddhist precepts] are not formulated as imperatives, but as training rules that laypeople undertake voluntarily to facilitate practice."

And if any politician still wants to make these mandatory and enforce them, I suggest they start looking at the fourth one, and look in a mirror: "I undertake the training rule to abstain from false speech." (i.e. lying)

[ThaiPauly]

Had a situation a few years back on a no alcohol day when we had a restaurant near the new Dutch one.

7 pm there is a knock on the office door, two blokes standing there saying "We want whisky" My Wife says, sorry can't serve you alcohol today He snaps back,"I am big Police" and pulls out his ID card. "Don't worry ,you get no trouble if I am here"

What can you do in a situation like that but knuckle under under?

You can say, sorry, NO!

What do you think will happen? He will do something?

Not likely, in my opinion. Nobody is going to give you a problem on this day if you don't provide (or don't have alcohol)

Why? They would just have moved on to the next place and done the same thing, and would probably have at some stage started a vendetta against my wife's restaurant. The guy was a regular customer, but we did not know he was a senior policeman, now if our regular magistrate customer had asked for the same, again there is not much choice but to accommodate them, the upside is of course that you can then serve drinks to everybody as you have "protection", if you didn't we would certainly have pissed off all our regulars, so out came the 7-11 bags with the bottles placed discreetly under the tables...Funny old world!!

Lets face it L, double standards are alive and well in LOS

[uptheos]

Actually we had a night off tonight. The wife went to the Walking street market, and I went for couple of pints at O'Malley's. Then we met up and went to the new 'Tiger Kigdom in Town' before coming back to find a full pub. Which means, yes, thank you, we've had quite a busy evening, Unlike yourself it would seem , whose trembling fingers seem to have been making pointless posts most of the evening. Has the wife got a headache?

You can feel free to say whatever you like to me or about me.

However, can you please explain the disparaging remark regarding my wife?

[uptheos]

Actually we had a night off tonight. The wife went to the Walking street market, and I went for couple of pints at O'Malley's. Then we met up and went to the new 'Tiger Kigdom in Town' before coming back to find a full pub. Which means, yes, thank you, we've had quite a busy evening, Unlike yourself it would seem , whose trembling fingers seem to have been making pointless posts most of the evening. Has the wife got a headache?

You can feel free to say whatever you like to me or about me.

However, can you please explain the disparaging remark regarding my wife?

I'm waiting.

[uptheos]

Actually we had a night off tonight. The wife went to the Walking street market, and I went for couple of pints at O'Malley's. Then we met up and went to the new 'Tiger Kigdom in Town' before coming back to find a full pub. Which means, yes, thank you, we've had quite a busy evening, Unlike yourself it would seem , whose trembling fingers seem to have been making pointless posts most of the evening. Has the wife got a headache?

You can feel free to say whatever you like to me or about me.

However, can you please explain the disparaging remark regarding my wife?

I'm waiting.

Still waiting.

[appropriate]

Thai laws are enforced by a police force regarded as an organised crime gang by the UN.

Ah, that old piece of barstool delusion.

Given the actual statement made (which mentioned neither a country, Thailand or anyother, nor a police force ), those in the judicial system of America are an organised crime gang too.

http://www.upiasia.c...criminals/2369/

Thank you for proving my point.

This is the UN statement/definition:

(The UN) defines an organized crime group as involving at least three people acting in concert over a period of time "with the aim of committing one or more serious crimes or offences… in order to obtain… a financial or other material benefit."

So the UN infer that the judicial system of America is an organized crime gang!

Of course the more simple and bitter may not be able to look past that big juicy, delusional heading.

[No1]

There is no right to an unrightful act. We should rather complain that the police works with double-standards.

I doubt it's smart to open a business here anyway: low income, lack of legal security and legal compliance, high corruption. I guess every Thai would be glad to have a chance to open a business in Western markets.

[uptheos]

Actually we had a night off tonight. The wife went to the Walking street market, and I went for couple of pints at O'Malley's. Then we met up and went to the new 'Tiger Kigdom in Town' before coming back to find a full pub. Which means, yes, thank you, we've had quite a busy evening, Unlike yourself it would seem , whose trembling fingers seem to have been making pointless posts most of the evening. Has the wife got a headache?

You can feel free to say whatever you like to me or about me.

However, can you please explain the disparaging remark regarding my wife?

I'm waiting.

Still waiting.

Still waiting.

[lannarebirth]

The booze ban has in reality, nothing to do with Buddhism, or this being Buddhism's holiest day. Buddhism, to my limited knowledge, preaches the middle way and that only individual action can help one to achieve Nirvana - in effect an imposed alcohol ban is anti-Buddhist. The ban has been rairoaded through by the deputy health minister who has been on an anti booze kick since he was a minister in Thaksin's governmnent. As the ban doesn't effect the ruling elite no-one saw any need to stop him. Buddhism managed for years to observe its holiest day without recourse to compulsory alcohol bans. why does it need one now?

you really should think through these things Uptheos before simply taking an opposite stance for the sake of it! You're points are becoming laughable!

Probably something to do with the 5 precepts that Buddhists are encouraged to practice.

Precept 5: I undertake the training rule to abstain from fermented drink that causes heedlessness

[millwall_fan]

The booze ban has in reality, nothing to do with Buddhism, or this being Buddhism's holiest day. Buddhism, to my limited knowledge, preaches the middle way and that only individual action can help one to achieve Nirvana - in effect an imposed alcohol ban is anti-Buddhist. The ban has been rairoaded through by the deputy health minister who has been on an anti booze kick since he was a minister in Thaksin's governmnent. As the ban doesn't effect the ruling elite no-one saw any need to stop him. Buddhism managed for years to observe its holiest day without recourse to compulsory alcohol bans. why does it need one now?

you really should think through these things Uptheos before simply taking an opposite stance for the sake of it! You're points are becoming laughable!

Probably something to do with the 5 precepts that Buddhists are encouraged to practice.

Precept 5: I undertake the training rule to abstain from fermented drink that causes heedlessness

I think Tywais has already mentioned the 5 precepts Lannarebirth. And I have no issue with that, but as your post clearly illustrates, this is a vow taken by Buddhists and I'm sure many Buddhists choose to adhere to precept

number 5. Buddhism is also a religion or faith or belief system that preaches tolerance toward others who do not follow their beliefs. To enforce a ban on alcohol on non adherants of the faith could therefore be described as anti Buddhist.

Being of much weaker fibre than a Buddhist I enjoy getting 'heedless' sometimes.....as ahem....do a large number of Buddhists in this country.

[uptheos]

Actually we had a night off tonight. The wife went to the Walking street market, and I went for couple of pints at O'Malley's. Then we met up and went to the new 'Tiger Kigdom in Town' before coming back to find a full pub. Which means, yes, thank you, we've had quite a busy evening, Unlike yourself it would seem , whose trembling fingers seem to have been making pointless posts most of the evening. Has the wife got a headache?

You can feel free to say whatever you like to me or about me.

However, can you please explain the disparaging remark regarding my wife?

I'm waiting.

Still waiting.

[millwall_fan]

Actually we had a night off tonight. The wife went to the Walking street market, and I went for couple of pints at O'Malley's. Then we met up and went to the new 'Tiger Kigdom in Town' before coming back to find a full pub. Which means, yes, thank you, we've had quite a busy evening, Unlike yourself it would seem , whose trembling fingers seem to have been making pointless posts most of the evening. Has the wife got a headache?

You can feel free to say whatever you like to me or about me.

However, can you please explain the disparaging remark regarding my wife?

I'm waiting.

Still waiting.

It's like dealing with an eight year old

OK. There was nothing disparaging about my comment toward your wife, I was merely enquiring after her health. If she has taken any offence by it, it will be because of the spin you have placed on my comments as per usual.

Mrs Uptheos: I apologise if i offended you, I trust you are in fine health. Why don't you tell your husband to come to the Red Mango tonight for their quiz and If he does I'll bring a box of chocolates for you. To demonstrate the esteem in which I hold you for putting up with Uptheos as a hubby.

Happy now Uptheos?

[Loaded]

Thai laws are enforced by a police force regarded as an organised crime gang by the UN.

Ah, that old piece of barstool delusion.

Given the actual statement made (which mentioned neither a country, Thailand or anyother, nor a police force ), those in the judicial system of America are an organised crime gang too.

http://www.upiasia.c...criminals/2369/

Thank you for proving my point.

This is the UN statement/definition:

(The UN) defines an organized crime group as involving at least three people acting in concert over a period of time "with the aim of committing one or more serious crimes or offences… in order to obtain… a financial or other material benefit."

So the UN infer that the judicial system of America is an organized crime gang!

Of course the more simple and bitter may not be able to look past that big juicy, delusional heading.

You are the only person who has linked or inferred that the UN's definition refers to the US police force but you call me delusional. My statement and link only refer to Thailand's police force.

[ThaiPauly]

A very fine gesture Millwall Fan.

I really hope that Uptheos takes you up on it.

But I have my doubts

It's uptoyou Uptheos, prove me wrong

BTW, it's really good to see one publican supporting another's event

[Gonzo the Face]

A very fine gesture Millwall Fan.

I really hope that Uptheos takes you up on it.

But I have my doubts

It's uptoyou Uptheos, prove me wrong

BTW, it's really good to see one publican supporting another's event

To quote of of Chiang Mai's greatest thinkers...... [did i spell that right?]

" I'm Waiting "

doancha just luv sporting debates....