Meltdown Likely Under Way At Japan Nuclear Reactor

[jfchandler]

NHK now reporting on the Reactor 2's supposed total cooling failure, attributing the info to Japan's nuclear regulators.

Edited March 14, 2011 by jfchandler

[bkkjames]

#fukushima reactor number 2 has lost all coolant according to NHK world news, this is not one of the reactors with earlier problems. ???

(this was a quote from twitter - I guess NHK has the full story?)

Edited March 14, 2011 by bkkjames

[jfchandler]

Wonder why there isnt an independent Japanese agency of some sort overseeing what TEPCO is up to. Seems the IAEA is being kept suitably in the dark.

I believe Japan's equivalent of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission is called NISA... Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency

http://kinkyu.nisa.go.jp/

[animatic]

jfchandler, thanks for all your good efforts.

[jfchandler]

James, if I'm keeping this straight...

Daichi No 1 was the reactor with the original problem and explosion... Then Reactor #3 and its explosion this morning... No. 2 had been reported as reasonably stable up until now... Things change...

Thus far, NHK has nothing on No. 2 on their web site, but they did make a verbal announcement of it a few minutes back on their TV broadcast.

Now Kyodo News web site has same advisory:

Cooling functions lost at Fukushima nuke plant's No.2 reactor.

Kyodo also reporting...according to TEPCO, water levels inside the reactor falling, but still above fuel rods.

Edited March 14, 2011 by jfchandler

[bkkjames]

James, if I'm keeping this straight...

Daichi No 1 was the reactor with the original problem and explosion... Then Reactor #3 and its explosion this morning... No. 2 had been reported as reasonably stable up until now... Things change...

yep, just need number 4 at this plant to go boom and we have a straight flush of the worst kind.

[Crushdepth]

Fukushima is starting to sound like a really good name for this place.

[jfchandler]

TEPCO stock down 23% today, Toshiba and Hitachi stocks, nuclear plant contractors, down about 16% -- NHK

[unblocktheplanet]

I don't think you need to know a microsievert from a milliamp to know in your gut when something's just plain wrong!

Forget about the environment for a minute and the fact that the contaminated, radioactive seawater cooling will be released back into the ocean and live on in all those lovely fish we'll be eating (remember mercury? remember Minamata disease? anybody out there give up fish?).

Let's just talk about the money, the real reason behind nuclear power, however well-intentioned.

How much does a reactor cost? A billion dollars maybe? Now let's look at the number of kilowatt/hours generated and how much electric consumers paid for them. How many years does it take these plants to make a profit? Now, add the cost of 'decommissioning' and clean-up (clearly impossible). And all this nuclear waste will be sealed in place, sitting on exactly the same fault-line. Tell me nuclear power makes any kind of sense.

Five kilos of uranium burned in a coal plant in a year. How many kilos of uranium and plutonium did the Japanese plants consume? How many kilos of waste were left over?

Keiji Nakazawa wrote a ten-volume manga series called Barefoot Gen, translated into English, Thai and many other languages, about his boyhood after the bomb in Hiroshima.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Barefoot_Gen

http://www.amazon.co...akazawa&x=0&y=0

These books should be required reading for every schoolchild in every country so we never make, at least, that mistake again.

There's a reason there has never been a thread so read on ThaiVisa as thing one...

Edited March 14, 2011 by unblocktheplanet

[Crushdepth]

I just saw a report quoting Edano that the blast from reactor 3 has taken out the cooling system for reactor 2. Can't get the link sorry.

[jfchandler]

Kyodo News reporting that Cabinet Sec. Edano says sea water injection to Daichi Reactor No. 2 being planned...

Scratch another reactor... it's headed for being toast.

NHK saying the problem began about 1:25 pm Japan time when all the cooling systems lost power.

NHK also saying nuclear regulators now also warning of hydrogen buildup in the No. 2 reactor and the prospect of an explosion there as well.

Kyodo quotes Edano as saying no change in radiation levels around the plant.

Edited March 14, 2011 by jfchandler

[bkkjames]

I just saw a report quoting Edano that the blast from reactor 3 has taken out the cooling system for reactor 2. Can't get the link sorry.

well that blast from the video I saw was notably larger that the first one so wouldnt surprise me. Now they are releasing the hydrogen (completed) from number 2 :

Japan's Chief Cabinet Secy. says there is an issue with the number 2 reactor at Fukushima 1 nuclear power plant - NHK

Just an issue - understatement of the decade.

[elcent]

I can't believe that this was an hydrogen explosion this morning. Hydogenic explosions look different, white smoke and the explosion itself is nearly invisible. This one is different and very serious.

Reactor three mixed with plutonium fuel rods. -

DANGEROUS!!!!

Animatic,

When you downplay the seriousness and misguid the facts to make them look harmless will create more confusion and panic at the end. The Japanese are very cool in handling this disaster. I really admire the people there.

[bkkjames]

NHK World: Number 2 reactor at Fukushima 1 nuclear power plant could explode due to increase of hydrogen.

[ScubaBuddha]

Just changed my flight to BKK through Korea rather than Narita.

Good idea mate. American Airlines website and the lady at the JAL counter (it was a codeshare) said Narita would be open for my connecting flight to LAX on the 12th, so I went ahead and went instead of risking losing my whole flight, which is what I am sure would happen if I tried to cancel it. I was pretty pissed when I arrived to find my flight now canceled and none of the passengers that were boarding when the quake hit had left by the following morning.

Seeing what many Japanese are going through now puts it in perspective though. Sleeping bags were handed out and 1000's of people were sleeping all over the place. I could see damaged buildings and fires in the distance from the runway. Water was dripping from the ceiling in many places around the airport. Flights were allowed to come in, but none were going out. No trains were running, no wifi. Hotels all full. Felt probably a dozen aftershocks. The Japanese seem to all have an app. on their phones which are linked to an earthquake warning system. They all chirp loudly just before another tremor. Brilliant really, but gives one a few tense seconds not knowing if it's another big one coming or what. The only time I was a little nervous is when someone I was speaking to in the states told me that a nuclear reactor just had a melt down. That freaked me out because I had no idea where this reactor was, and if I was downwind of it.

This was the first time I have had to sleep in an airport. Thankfully many restaurants were open, but many were running out of food since the roads were out or packed with traffic. I was 161st on standby to Dallas/Ft Worth later in the day. Didn't make that of course, so I walked around the town of Narita today. Some earthquake damage visable here and there but looked pretty normal for the most part. I love how clean and organized Japan is. Orchestral music piped into the streets in the tourist areas, courteous drivers, and best of all NO TUK TUKS!

Strangely the counter staff at Narita handed out AA phone numbers to call, which I did and got a flight today to JFK. Of course that flight was also late and I missed my connection a second time. I found the right person to kindly complain to and thy gave me a room at the Hilton tonight so I don't have to sleep on the floor a second night, so it's not all bad. I've never been to NY before. Wish I had time to look around. Flight is at 650 to SFO tomorrow. I should have asked to get an afternoon flight. I'll finally be home tomorrow after 84 hours of travel.

[warfie]

Why does the densest seismic network in the world/such an earthquake prone area have Nuclear Reactors.

Of course they need the power it supplies...but still it makes one wonder.

The bigger question is: "Why build nuke reactors anywhere?"

Right now, everyone is fixated on Japanese reactors and the impacts of the earthquakes. Hello! Nuclear is much bigger than that. Any one or group of factors can imperil living things around a reactor. Earthquake is one of many.

In Thailand, the two biggest potential problems for reactors are.

>>>>> lax maintenance and/or lack of top-end technical skills - coupled with slowness to react and/or acting too rashly - to an emergency scenario.

>>>>> take-over or destruction by outside group. Could be southern insurgents (that's where at least one reactor is planned), or could be a future incarnation of the Reds or some similar hot-headed group.

Other problems could include: irresponsible dumping of radioactive trash, not decommissioning the plant when it should be decommissioned, peril to uranium while it makes its long trip from faraway, rising costs of yellowcake, inability or laxness toward doing proper maintenance, things getting stolen (the Thai army gets stuff stolen every month), the list goes on and on.

Nuclear power has drawbacks for myriad reasons. Concentrated solar is cheaper and cleaner and safer.

"Nuclear power has drawbacks for myriad reasons. Concentrated solar is cheaper and cleaner and safer."

One of nuclear powers big advantages is that, unlike solar, it works at night, and when it is most needed. Power generation is a "use it or lose game" as there are very limited means of storing generated power - and the 2 peak load periods are before and after when solar is capable of supplying energy.

Storage systems such as batteries and flywheels hold miniscule amounts of energy compared to that required - the only practical method is pumping water uphill and dropping it through a hydro-station when required as in the aussie Snowy Mountains scheme, which again is tiny in comparison to Japan's o/night and peak load requirements.

So, if you like solar, you have 3 problems to overcome:

Where to put the solar panels and dams in a densely populated country?

What happens to the dams in a major earthquake?

How long will your govt stay in office after the entire population sits around in the dark freezing their tits off when the next typhoon comes along?

Further question.

What happens to if there is an explosion or a fire in a factory that produce solar panels after an earth quake. What is the environmental impact? Solar panel are not that clean, a lot of nasty chemical shit is used to produce them and a lot of toxic chemicals are inside them. They are hazardous waste.

Solar Energy Firms Leave Waste Behind in China

http://www.washingto...8030802595.html

Are solar panels the next e-waste?

http://www.guardian....r-panels-ewaste

Photo-voltaic panels are not the only option... not even the best option... google Stirling solar

[jfchandler]

James, NHK is talking about the prospect of another hydrogen gas explosion involving the external building... not a reactor explosion... Similar to what already occurred with Reactors 1 and 3... whatever those were.

NHK World: Number 2 reactor at Fukushima 1 nuclear power plant could explode due to increase of hydrogen.

Edited March 14, 2011 by jfchandler

[bkkjames]

James, NHK is talking about the prospect of another hydrogen gas explosion... not a reactor explosion... Similar to what already occurred with Reactors 1 and 3... whatever those were.

NHK World: Number 2 reactor at Fukushima 1 nuclear power plant could explode due to increase of hydrogen.

yep - just think we should rename the the title of this thread to another meltdown

[jfchandler]

Photo-voltaic panels are not the only option... not even the best option... google Stirling solar

Guys, please don't resume that discussion in this particular thread... particularly with page long quotes and two line comments.

The subject of this thread is problems with Japan's earthquake and tsunami damaged nuclear reactors.

Edited March 14, 2011 by jfchandler

[jfchandler]

Well, the good news is...at some point, they'll run out of nuclear plants to fail...

Japan has, as I recall, more than 50 nuclear plants across the country.... Fortunately, thus far, the problems seem to be limited to the Fukushima Daichi (serious) and Daini (less serious) ones.

James, NHK is talking about the prospect of another hydrogen gas explosion... not a reactor explosion... Similar to what already occurred with Reactors 1 and 3... whatever those were.

NHK World: Number 2 reactor at Fukushima 1 nuclear power plant could explode due to increase of hydrogen.

yep - just think we should rename the the title of this thread to another meltdown

[jfchandler]

Kyodo News:

Gov't trying to resume injection of seawater to No. 3 reactor: Edano

Guess that means it had stopped after this morning's explosion, though the officials hadn't said that before...

Also reports Edano saying the fuel rods in Reactor No. 2 are heading toward being exposed out of their cooling water...

Edited March 14, 2011 by jfchandler

[elcent]

just had another, closer look at the explosion. There's some hydrogen involved but other factors, probably due to plutonium, play a role in this explosion. It looks as if the damage in the core was higher than the one in unit 1. It's different to the first explosion and the situation may get out of control within hours.

[jfchandler]

For those keeping score:

Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station:

Units 1 to 3: shutdown due to earthquake (but all 3 with cooling system problems)

Units 4 to 6: outage due to regular inspection (prior to the earthquake)

Here's what TEPCO had last said yesterday about Reactor No. 2

* Unit 2: Reactor has been shut down and Reactor Core Isolation Cooling system has been injecting water to the reactor. Current reactor water level is lower than normal level, but the water level is steady. After fully securing safety, we are preparing to implement a measure to reduce the pressure of the reactor containment vessels under the instruction of the national government. To do so, we operated the vent valve and completed the operation at 11:00AM, Mar 13.

Fukushima Daini Nuclear Power Station:

Units 1 to 4: shutdown due to earthquake

At present, we [TEPCO] have decided to prepare implementing measures to reduce

the pressure of the reactor containment vessel (partial discharge of air containing radioactive materials) in order to fully secure safety.

These measures are considered to be implemented in Units 1, 2 and 3 and accordingly, we have reported and/or noticed the government agencies concerned.

*

Edited March 14, 2011 by jfchandler

[bkkjames]

just had another, closer look at the explosion. There's some hydrogen involved but other factors, probably due to plutonium, play a role in this explosion. It looks as if the damage in the core was higher than the one in unit 1. It's different to the first explosion and the situation may get out of control within hours.

I agree that these explosions look quite a bit different but I think you would agree that there is no blueprint for these. Perhaps we should wait for number 2 to explode in the coming minutes / hours before making a call?

[webfact]

The cooling function of Unit 2 was stopped,following blast at Unit 3.Prepare to inject sea water into Unit 2 now! /RT @RynnerleinCFCx:

[jfchandler]

More bad news,,,as if there is any good news to report:

Kyodo News - U.S. military helicopter measures radiation, U.S. aircraft carrier to suspend aid activities.

*

[jfchandler]

The New York Times

Navy Says 17 Americans Were Treated for Contamination

By THOM SHANKER

Published: March 14, 2011

WASHINGTON — American Navy officials in Japan said early Monday that 17 military personnel who had been aboard three helicopters assisting in the earthquake relief effort had been exposed to low levels of contamination.

Cmdr. Jeff A. Davis, a spokesman for the American Seventh Fleet in Japan, said the Navy personnel — who apparently had flown through a radioactive plume from a damaged nuclear power plant — had been ordered to dispose of their uniforms and to undergo a decontamination scrub that had successfully removed radioactive particles.

"They received very, very low levels of contamination," Commander Davis said in a telephone interview from Japan early Monday.

MORE: http://www.nytimes.c...14military.html

Edited March 14, 2011 by jfchandler

[jfchandler]

A bit more from the NYT:

The helicopter crew members had landed aboard the U.S.S. Ronald Reagan, a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier whose on-board sensors had indicated that the warship, too, had been exposed to airborne contamination at very low levels. The helicopter crew members were tested individually with hand-held radiation monitors.

The carrier and its strike group were operating about 100 miles northeast of the damaged power plant at the time, but the helicopters had flown closer to assist in relief missions near Sendai, the city that bore much of the brunt of the tsunami after Friday’s earthquake.

The Ronald Reagan and other American warships have now sailed to areas where they will not be in the path of radiation carried in the wind.

“As a precautionary measure, U.S.S. Ronald Reagan and other U.S. Seventh Fleet ships conducting disaster-response operations in the area have moved out of the downwind direction from the site to assess the situation and determine what appropriate mitigating actions are necessary,” Commander David said.

[elcent]

here you can see images with before/after slider. (works also with IE)

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,750653,00.html

The US has withdrawn their ships from current position in Fukushima because of higher radioctivity measured by "USS Ronald Reagan" 160 km off the coast

[jfchandler]

The New York Times

A Look at the Mechanics of a Partial Meltdown

By HENRY FOUNTAIN

Published: March 13, 2011

The difference between a partial meltdown and a full meltdown at a nuclear plant is enormous, both in the degree of damage and in the potential release of radiation, experts in nuclear power said.

Multimedia

Interactive Feature

The Crippled Japanese Nuclear Reactors

A partial meltdown, like those suspected at two reactors in northeastern Japan over the weekend, may not necessarily mean that any of the uranium fuel in the core has melted, experts said. The fuel rods may be only damaged, a portion of them having been left uncovered by cooling water long enough to crack, allowing the release of some radioactive elements in the fuel.

But in a full meltdown — which could occur within hours if all cooling water was lost and the rods became completely uncovered — melting is all but guaranteed, as thousands of fuel pellets fall to the bottom of the reactor and heat themselves into a molten pool at several thousand degrees Fahrenheit.

While it is considered highly unlikely that a full meltdown would result in a nuclear chain reaction, experts said, such lava-like fuel might breach the reactor's pressure vessel and then its containment, leading to widespread release of radioactivity.

MORE: http://www.nytimes.c...14meltdown.html

Edited March 14, 2011 by jfchandler