U.S. Navy fires missiles at Libyan air defenses, Obama to speak shortly

[bangkokrick]

FLASH: China expresses regret about military attacks on Libya, calls for stability to be restored to Libya as soon as possible/RT@Reuters

Russia & now China have spoken.....only awaiting India now.

It is one thing for the US & allies to make this move it is another when Russia & China state openly calls for stability.

Add to that Gaddafi's statement that when this is done ( if he is still in power ) Western oil companies will be kicked out of Libya & all oil will be directed from Libya to Russia, China & India

Adds a twist to it?

Going into Libya under the guise of saving the citizens is total bullshit, we all know it's about OIL. It's a shame that the same premise was not considered in Rwanda when 1000s were slaughtered, but then again they don't have any OIL do they!

We are pumping that crude out of Afghanistan, yes sir.

But you are preaching to the choir here. The only one who wants military action in Libya in this thread is Soft George.

You should address your comments to him.

Pumping poppies out of Afghanistan more like. Expressing my views on a public forum is not preaching to the choir, but you apparently are doing the same thing.

It's just a shame that countless lives will be lost during this conflict to depose Gaddafi and no doubt the coalition will be blamed for every one of them. Lets hope that this time it can be concluded in less than 12 years eh!

[tigermonkey]

So here we go again with the right wing Christian crusade. As to the rebels well seems their leaders are part & parcel of the Gaddaffi mob that has had their face pushed out.

The UN now is just a joey to the USA war mongers.

Can anybody tell me why no intervention in other Middle East Countries where the same is going on. How about Saudi ? They seem to be killing enough. The people of Libya are just being used as a porn .

They just never learn fking halfwit murdering USA, UK UN gangsters that is all they are

Thank you for your articuate, reasoned and well-thought out response.

So Obama and Clinton et al are now "right wing" -- this is breaking news! The Arab League is part of a "Christian Crusade" - more breaking news!

There has been no other intervention " in other Middle Eastern Countries" , because no other dictator has hired mercenaries to execute his own people.

" The people of Libya are just being used as a porn" -- I sincerely hope that you meant "pawn" -- I have seen no hint of pornographic coverage of the fighting.

Obviously you are driven by hatred of USA, right wing, Christians, UK and and the UN -- did I miss any ?

I sincerely hope that you are merely trolling . If not you have my sympathy.

[bonobo]

The US refused to allow Treki to travel to New York to take up the post. Treki must present himself in person to the Secretary-General in order to be accredited as his country's new ambassador.

If the US is going to host the UN, then no one on UN work should ever be refused a visa. Period.

Should someone be caught spying or such, take care of it then. But a travel visa fin conjunction with UN duties should never be used as a political tool.

[Steely Dan]

So here we go again with the right wing Christian crusade. As to the rebels well seems their leaders are part & parcel of the Gaddaffi mob that has had their face pushed out.

The UN now is just a joey to the USA war mongers.

Can anybody tell me why no intervention in other Middle East Countries where the same is going on. How about Saudi ? They seem to be killing enough. The people of Libya are just being used as a porn .

They just never learn fking halfwit murdering USA, UK UN gangsters that is all they are

Thank you for your articuate, reasoned and well-thought out response.

So Obama and Clinton et al are now "right wing" -- this is breaking news! The Arab League is part of a "Christian Crusade" - more breaking news!

There has been no other intervention " in other Middle Eastern Countries" , because no other dictator has hired mercenaries to execute his own people.

" The people of Libya are just being used as a porn" -- I sincerely hope that you meant "pawn" -- I have seen no hint of pornographic coverage of the fighting.

Obviously you are driven by hatred of USA, right wing, Christians, UK and and the UN -- did I miss any ?

I sincerely hope that you are merely trolling . If not you have my sympathy.

[zthyadat]

a small, private war by the rednecks.

the un security council should first to calm situation down, and if it doesn't work threaten with gradual pressure, including military

Gaddafi was not prepared to listen and he was murdering his own people. I have been against most of the USA's little ventures (especially when they are acting on their own with coerced partners), but I agree with this one - it isn't just the USA - far from it.

[zthyadat]

So here we go again with the right wing Christian crusade.

Actually, this is mostly coming from the left. Many conservatives are saying it is a big mistake, but Hillary and Obama are insisting on it.

If you imagine that any President of the US since FDR has been anything resembling a leftie, then your definition of left is only relative to being left of America's right. The democrats are conservatives and the Republicans are ultra-conservatives.

[chachachacha]

So here we go again with the right wing Christian crusade. As to the rebels well seems their leaders are part & parcel of the Gaddaffi mob that has had their face pushed out.

The UN now is just a joey to the USA war mongers.

Can anybody tell me why no intervention in other Middle East Countries where the same is going on. How about Saudi ? They seem to be killing enough. The people of Libya are just being used as a porn .

They just never learn fking halfwit murdering USA, UK UN gangsters that is all they are

Thank you for your articuate, reasoned and well-thought out response.

So Obama and Clinton et al are now "right wing" -- this is breaking news! The Arab League is part of a "Christian Crusade" - more breaking news!

There has been no other intervention " in other Middle Eastern Countries" , because no other dictator has hired mercenaries to execute his own people.

" The people of Libya are just being used as a porn" -- I sincerely hope that you meant "pawn" -- I have seen no hint of pornographic coverage of the fighting.

Obviously you are driven by hatred of USA, right wing, Christians, UK and and the UN -- did I miss any ?

I sincerely hope that you are merely trolling . If not you have my sympathy.

Another right wing support post of support for murder. As to no other nation has hired mercinaires Bahrian ? Also you are so pathetic in your support that you want to point out a spelling error ,how sad is that ,but then oly to be expected of a thying that supports murderers

Sad Sad Sad

The Arab league have been bought with the promise to support their murderous Kingdoms with weapons . I am driven by the fact that right wing always want war & never learn nothing

Maybe you should learn by the past as opposed to spelling sad thing. Also give your false sympathy to your sad little self .

ITS TIME TO PLAY THE MUSIC ON THE MUPPET SHOW TONIGHT

Edited March 20, 2011 by bonobo
removed profanity

[chachachacha]

So here we go again with the right wing Christian crusade.

Actually, this is mostly coming from the left. Many conservatives are saying it is a big mistake, but Hillary and Obama are insisting on it.

If you imagine that any President of the US since FDR has been anything resembling a leftie, then your definition of left is only relative to being left of America's right. The democrats are conservatives and the Republicans are ultra-conservatives.

Exactly & the same can be said of the UK now . The Lib Dems & Cons in bed together. Labour is more right wing than Thatcher was

[bonobo]

Post what you want, but let's leave off the profanity. Further posts which resort to using profanity will be deleted in their entirety.

[zthyadat]

$112 MILLION WASTED OVERNIGHT

when the dust settles and the new muslim regime backed by Al Qaeda is in control, these insurgents will spit on their new found friendship with the western allies, as the infidels they see us as

this is a major blunder by all the parties involved, they should have left it well alone and let this civil war work itself out.........

I worked in Libya for 6 years for Gaddafi and his regime on his personal pet project the Great Mad Man Made River. Be sure that the people behind the uprising are definitely not Al Qaeda or Muslim Fanatics. The only Libyans that appear to be anything like Al Qaeda are the ones shown waving green flags and shouting long live Gaddafi in Green Square. Remember that Saif-Islam recently let alot of Al Queda detainees out of prison, who swore allegience to him and are probably fighting for him not for the other side.

I can tell you from personal experience, that Gaddafi rules by fear, everyone is scared of him, I kept a low profile. 10 Bulgarian nurses were sentenced to death by firing squad although we all knew they were innocent of all charges. Another friend, Max Goldi, who was Country Director of ABB was jailed just for being Swiss, in retalliation for the arrest of Hannibal Gaddafi in a Swiss hotel when he had beaten up his servants. Subsequent to that Gaddafi suggested to teh UN that Switzerland be broken up and divided between Italy, France and Germany.

Originally, two sons, Saadi and Saif-Islam had the idea to introduce Democracy, to promote Tourism and to turn Libya into another Dubai withh Zwara being modelled on Monte Carlo with Casinos, hotels and a harbour for luxury yachts. To do this they persuaded Gaddafi to retire but instead he agreed to step down as leader if he was given the position of President of the United States of Africa, and they proceeded to pay a number of the Africa States considerebale sums to support this. The idea was that he would step down in September 2009, the 50th anniversary of the revolution. In the end the African states did not all support this and so Gaddafi refused to step down and relinguish power.

Two of my Libyan bosses, who had been working with these two sons to replace the old regime and establish a Democratic state, fell foul of Gaddafi and fled to Egypt in 2009, to join the opposition. Many of the younger generation have studied and travelled abroad and are into pop music, parties, and many other western persuits, which are not allowed in Libya, although Gaddafi and his sons hold rave parties even with Beyonce paying $2 Million to perform, whilst 26% of the youth have no job. Tourism is continually held back by the old Regime although Libya has the most stunning Roman and Greek buildings still standing including a whole city at Leptcis Magna. The people of Zwara, Al Zawiyah are Berber and are related to the Tunisians and the Lebanese, being decendents of the ancient Phoenicians.

Alot of them studied in the UK, Germany and the USA, and since 2006 when Gaddafi allowed them to have internet, have been communicating with the the outside World, and they realise that they are amongst the poorest people in the world despite Libya having earnt US$32.4Billion last year in oil money. That is US$5million per Libyan. This is what has caused them to seek to remove Gaddafi and seek a Western style democracy. Remember that Bengahzi was part of Cyrenia in the Ancient Greek Empire and the Greeks invented Democracy. These guys are definitely not Al Qaeda.

You had me right with you there until the part about wealth distribution. With a population of 6.5 million people, $32 billion comes to just under $5,000 per person, not $5 million

[WarpSpeed]

Not one country on the UN security council objected.

Not all voted for it either.

a no-fly zone and other measures to protect civilians with 10-to-0 vote, with five abstentions - China, Russia, Germany, Indian and Brazil.

The U.N. action bans all flights in Libyan airspace in order to protect civilians.

At the end of the day it was a civil war.

If a civil war was taking place in a western country how would they react to an outside power stepping in & destroying their air defense systems?

If the no fly zone is to be touted as a protection of civilians then the forces being directed at Libya should not be one sided.

As it stands now it looks as if the rebels are being backed by this action.

If successful....Will the rebel forces then be the new installed regime? Will the forces that now help them be happy with that or does a designated puppet need to be installed?

Does not look good IMO

Their non vote was a vote.. Just as mine was when Obama was elected, and Bush and Clinton, etc..

Any one who hasn't been hiding under a rock and just surfaced like a cockroach to bash the U.S. would know that you need to abolish their tracking and defensive capabilities first to safely implement (relatively speaking) a no fly zone and this entire action was headed by the British and the French (amazingly) and not the U.S. who actually expressed misgivings but of course it's the U.S. instigating once again just out of being good allies...

People always use to comment on how ineffective and impotent the UN was as it never acted but merely threatened and now that they are actually enforcing their resolutions it's still not satisfactory to the bleeding hearts who are usually of a certain ilk and nationality I might add..

[chachachacha]

Not one country on the UN security council objected.

Not all voted for it either.

a no-fly zone and other measures to protect civilians with 10-to-0 vote, with five abstentions - China, Russia, Germany, Indian and Brazil.

The U.N. action bans all flights in Libyan airspace in order to protect civilians.

At the end of the day it was a civil war.

If a civil war was taking place in a western country how would they react to an outside power stepping in & destroying their air defense systems?

If the no fly zone is to be touted as a protection of civilians then the forces being directed at Libya should not be one sided.

As it stands now it looks as if the rebels are being backed by this action.

If successful....Will the rebel forces then be the new installed regime? Will the forces that now help them be happy with that or does a designated puppet need to be installed?

Does not look good IMO

Their non vote was a vote.. Just as mine was when Obama was elected, and Bush and Clinton, etc..

Any one who hasn't been hiding under a rock and just surfaced like a cockroach to bash the U.S. would know that you need to abolish their tracking and defensive capabilities first to safely implement (relatively speaking) a no fly zone and this entire action was headed by the British and the French (amazingly) and not the U.S. who actually expressed misgivings but of course it's the U.S. instigating once again just out of being good allies...

People always use to comment on how ineffective and impotent the UN was as it never acted but merely threatened and now that they are actually enforcing their resolutions it's still not satisfactory to the bleeding hearts who are usually of a certain ilk and nationality I might add..

Mass State MURDER never sits well with me

[Lite Beer]

Libya's Gaddafi tells state TV western air raids amount to terrorism/RT@REUTERSFLASH

[Moonrakers]

People always use to comment on how ineffective and impotent the UN was as it never acted but merely threatened and now that they are actually enforcing their resolutions it's still not satisfactory to the bleeding hearts who are usually of a certain ilk and nationality I might add..

Good call WS.

You're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't. I think stopping a man from using warplanes against its own people is a no-brainer. Those accusing the UN of mass murder are are misdirecting their frustrations at the wrong person/people.

My beef is the hypocrisy. Why do the people of Libya get help and not the people of Burma, for example?

Of course, my question is a rhetorical one. No need to answer.

[WarpSpeed]

Mass State MURDER never sits well with me

Can you clarify who's point you're siding with before I respond? Kind of hard to tell.. Can't tell if you're suggesting the UN mandate condones mass murder or if you're flaming Gadaffi's action as mass murder the latter of which would actually be the proper impression..

Edited March 20, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Lite Beer]

Libyan leader Kadhafi: Libya's people are armed & ready to defeat western forces attacking the nation, in televised audio message Sun/AFP./RT@marisa_nt

[WarpSpeed]

People always use to comment on how ineffective and impotent the UN was as it never acted but merely threatened and now that they are actually enforcing their resolutions it's still not satisfactory to the bleeding hearts who are usually of a certain ilk and nationality I might add..

Good call WS.

You're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't. I think stopping a man from using warplanes against its own people is a no-brainer. Those accusing the UN of mass murder are are misdirecting their frustrations at the wrong person/people.

My beef is the hypocrisy. Why do the people of Libya get help and not the people of Burma, for example?

Of course, my question is a rhetorical one. No need to answer.

I agree there does seem to be fair bit of hypocrisy and it is my concern too, one of the primary members that abstained is a prime example of that... But what to do? You kind of have to apply one of life's lessons when you're overwhelmed and do triage to get anything accomplished...

Why Libya and not Bahrain, Yemen? Like you said, rhetorical..

Edited March 20, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[zydeco]

Who has killed more civilians? Gaddafi in putting down an armed rebellion in his own country? Or the United States in all its strikes against civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan? Maybe that No Fly Zone should have been put in force over America, instead of Libya.

[Moonrakers]

Who has killed more civilians? Gaddafi in putting down an armed rebellion in his own country? Or the United States in all its strikes against civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan? Maybe that No Fly Zone should have been put in force over America, instead of Libya.

I see what you did there!

You use Gadaffi's influence in one country and then take the U.S.'s influence in many countries and then combine the two, incomparable variables, as a single argument.

[WarpSpeed]

Who has killed more civilians? Gaddafi in putting down an armed rebellion in his own country? Or the United States in all its strikes against civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan? Maybe that No Fly Zone should have been put in force over America, instead of Libya.

Moot point and irrelevant. Why don't we just go back to the Revolutionary war <deleted>, the French intervened in that one too and there's still anamosity over it ..

Edited March 20, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Ulysses G.]

So here we go again with the right wing Christian crusade.

Actually, this is mostly coming from the left. Many conservatives are saying it is a big mistake, but Hillary and Obama are insisting on it.

If you imagine that any President of the US since FDR has been anything resembling a leftie, then your definition of left is only relative to being left of America's right.

Well, I admit that Jimmy Carter is a little to the right of Mao if that is what you mean.

Edited March 20, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[sirchai]

a small, private war by the rednecks.

the un security council should first to calm situation down, and if it doesn't work threaten with gradual pressure, including military

WASHINGTON, D.C. (BNO NEWS) -- The U.S. Navy on Saturday evening fired several Tomahawk cruise missiles at Libyan air defenses, U.S. media reported, and President Barack Obama is expected to make a statement soon.

<deleted>'s going on with the world police? What about the collateral damage?:jap:

Edited March 20, 2011 by sirchai

[powderpuff]

If you imagine that any President of the US since FDR has been anything resembling a leftie, then your definition of left is only relative to being left of America's right. The democrats are conservatives and the Republicans are ultra-conservatives.

Except for Barack Hussein Obama who is a disciple of Lenin & Marx.

Left Red - call it what you like.

[LaoPo]

The utter nonsense I sometimes read here on TV is truly amazing....it's like if a mixture of Star Wars and fairy tales became reality

Some members have a fascinating imagination

LaoPo

[beechguy]

Who has killed more civilians? Gaddafi in putting down an armed rebellion in his own country? Or the United States in all its strikes against civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan? Maybe that No Fly Zone should have been put in force over America, instead of Libya.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/10/world/asia/10afghanistan.html?_r=1u

If you really want to bitch about civilian casualties, maybe you should complain about the Taliban, Al Qaeda, etc. But no need to let the facts get in the way is there?

[sbk]

lets make sure we keep this civil and drop pointless bickering, thanks

[zydeco]

Who has killed more civilians? Gaddafi in putting down an armed rebellion in his own country? Or the United States in all its strikes against civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan? Maybe that No Fly Zone should have been put in force over America, instead of Libya.

http://www.nytimes.c...stan.html?_r=1u

If you really want to bitch about civilian casualties, maybe you should complain about the Taliban, Al Qaeda, etc. But no need to let the facts get in the way is there?

Yessiree, pard. I man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

[beechguy]

Who has killed more civilians? Gaddafi in putting down an armed rebellion in his own country? Or the United States in all its strikes against civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan? Maybe that No Fly Zone should have been put in force over America, instead of Libya.

http://www.nytimes.c...stan.html?_r=1u

If you really want to bitch about civilian casualties, maybe you should complain about the Taliban, Al Qaeda, etc. But no need to let the facts get in the way is there?

Yessiree, pard. I man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

Yeah well, that article says the anti-government forces are responsible for 75% of the civilian casualties in Afghanistan as an example, but none of these guys ever comment on that, excuse me if I doubt their concern or sincerity.

[bangkokeddy]

As for boots on the ground.... As Gaddafi & supporters are in the cities how else will they be removed from power?

I will put money on the fact there will be boots on the ground

At that point when the civilians who support Gaddafi are armed to defend their city...will they then be transformed from civilians to enemy combatants?

Just wish it did not go this way.

For dead civilians Gadaffi will be blamed and accused of using human shield.

if civilians dare to fight back they will be called 'insurgents'.

[flying]

Their non vote was a vote.. Just as mine was when Obama was elected, and Bush and Clinton, etc..

Any one who hasn't been hiding under a rock and just surfaced like a cockroach to bash the U.S. would know that you need to abolish their tracking and defensive capabilities first to safely implement (relatively speaking) a no fly zone and this entire action was headed by the British and the French (amazingly) and not the U.S. who actually expressed misgivings but of course it's the U.S. instigating once again just out of being good allies...

People always use to comment on how ineffective and impotent the UN was as it never acted but merely threatened and now that they are actually enforcing their resolutions it's still not satisfactory to the bleeding hearts who are usually of a certain ilk and nationality I might add..

Since you quoted me in your reply I can only assume your reply is directed at me.

As such I will point out that I live in the US, vote & pay taxes. (ie: do not live under a rock )

That a US citizen who votes & pays taxes I am not under any obligation to agree with foreign policy.

In fact as a US citizen that is our right to voice our dissatisfaction with it as 63% of Americans do.

As for your remark about military policy & the need to destroy others air defense to enforce a rule BEFORE any infractions of that rule...

Again while that may be military policy it does not mean Americans need to agree with it.

It is not unlike saying.....The rule of Murder says you cannot murder

So we will now destroy your property/ability to defend yourself and or life in order to safely police you so that you do not commit murder

As to your comment....

still not satisfactory to the bleeding hearts who are usually of a certain ilk and nationality I might add..

Again it assumes that Americans did in fact call for resolution...Did we? Polls show otherwise

The most striking early-survey finding: A whopping three-quarters of Americans--74 percent--said the United States should "leave it to others" to attempt to resolve the situation in Libya, according to a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll conducted last week.

Similarly, a Pew Research Center poll conducted last week found that 65 percent of respondents think the United States doesn't have the responsibility to do something about the fighting in Libya, compared with 27 percent who responded that it does.

More worrying for the U.S. administration: More than three-quarters of respondents in the Pew poll (77 percent) said they oppose the United States bombing Libyan air defenses.

Certain ilk & nationality?? Lets leave your racial preferences out of it. As America is a melting pot of nationalities it is your comment that speaks volumes of anti-Americanisms

Edited March 20, 2011 by flying