The Noose May Be Tightening

[Thaiquila]

The only real real difference for us was that it is less expensive to live on or near the beach (we are on Phuket) - that's very important to me. 

Yes, they require a pension for retirement status, but many people (North Americans) can stay in Mexico for six months on a simple entry-type visa.  Most go home to visit family and return.

Chuckie, I totally agree with the spirit of your post. Welcoming retirees who can show a reasonable amount of support is a benefit for many countries. And actions that show hostility towards this "clean industry" smack of xenophobia.

However, I want to comment on the current situation in Mexico. Yes, I agree, it is a worthy alternative to retirement in Thailand, and not only for North Americans.

There are some beach areas that have good infrastructure that are similarly priced or even cheaper than Phuket, Mazatlan being a prime example.

Here is the bad news: for US and Canadian people entering Mexico it is no longer a done deal that you will get a 6 month tourist entry. You can ask, but it is not always being granted. 60 days is the common default. People who do not get the 6 months upon entry are then free to apply for an extension in Mexico, but must prove financial support. And you are subject to the same uncertainty every time you enter. Mexico, like Thailand, is having a crackdown of sorts on "tourist visa walkers." Many people still live in Mexico this way, but there is the constant uncertainty. If the officials see multiple Mexico stamps, they will wonder about your finances, and are probably more likely to not grant 6 months. The alternative is to qualify for a retirement type visa based on a pension. That is an excellent choice for those with pensions (approx over 1200/month) and can lead to more permanent visas. There is no way to qualify for a long term visa in Mexico based on a Mexican bank account or investment income -- you need a pension.

[davidm]

Migrating pensioners are a modern phenomenon, so it will take time for countries to adapt. The reasons behind the migration are fairly obvious: better climate, lower cost of living and preferably most of the amenities and comforts the migrants grew up with. Northern Europeans are migrating to Spain and the cheaper parts of southern Europe by the millions. Housing prices have gone up accordingly as the population has actually risen in some areas. In the near future, we will probably see English mayors and MPs in Spanish towns.

Asia gets comparitively few western pensioners, but will have to make adjustments if it wants to let them in. In the process, some of the rules will go through a series of changes. For example, it's a little strange that a pensioner needs a monthly income twice that of your average working age English teacher even though the cost of living should be lower for a pensioner. On the other hand, who wants to take care of an old foreigner with no visible means of support simply because he or she prefers not to be in their homeland?

My only objection to the new rules is that they are very rarely set by Thais, but rather by Chinese who have taken over the country. They are setting laws that benefit (some of) them. Westerners will be among those who lose out if Thailand's current leaders continue their programme but is this really our fight?

[morphic]

Khun and his ilk display a level of ignorance, stupidity, and ugliness of character that, unfortunately, appear to be to all too common amongst the Chinese-Thai business people and politicians that have come to dominate a country largely populated by charming and decent people. The arguments, poorly articulated by Knun, are entirely lacking in logic or substance. His garbled rubbish seems to be arguing that people should be rejected based, not on how much it costs to live in Thailand (60,000 baht is ample!) but on some measure of success from their own countries. So, in London, for example, if 130,000 baht is the minimum needed for sucessful retirement, then only those with more than that should be allowed to live in Thailand. Otherwise, Thailand would be allowing 'unachievers', who clearly need punishment, to live in comfort. What pathetic nonsense? What an idiot this Khun must be. I imagine him to be a pock marked, orc like, greasy faced little man living in envy and fear of all the big strong Western men he see's with girls that wouldn't touch him with a bargepole, not even if he was financialy sucessful, and definitely not on the 25,000 baht a month he makes on his 60 hour a week job.

No, the thing that is motivating this vile, poisioned little dwarf to spew out his drivel is racism against white Westerners.

[Georgie-Porgie]

Personally, I am not sure that I would have singled out Khun ? on this. I probably would have gone after his "ilk" ( Lepiddoptera ) instead, but I have to congratulate morphic on his latest post: Absolutely brilliant. A strike for the thinking against the non-thinking, and oh so true! Should be preserved in Granite! Engraved on ######'s hard drive forever!

[Khun ?]

Khun and his ilk display a level of ignorance, stupidity, and ugliness of character that, unfortunately, appear to be to all too common amongst the Chinese-Thai business people and politicians that have come to dominate a country largely populated by charming and decent people. The arguments, poorly articulated by Knun, are entirely lacking in logic or substance. His garbled rubbish seems to be arguing that people should be rejected based, not on how much it costs to live in Thailand (60,000 baht is ample!) but on some measure of success from their own countries. So, in London, for example, if 130,000 baht is the minimum needed for sucessful retirement, then only those with more than that should be allowed to live in Thailand. Otherwise, Thailand would be allowing 'unachievers', who clearly need punishment, to live in comfort. What pathetic nonsense? What an idiot this Khun must be. I imagine him to be a pock marked, orc like, greasy faced little man living in envy and fear of all the big strong Western men he see's with girls that wouldn't touch him with a bargepole, not even if he was financialy sucessful, and definitely not on the 25,000 baht a month he makes on his 60 hour a week job.

No, the thing that is motivating this vile, poisioned little dwarf to spew out his drivel is racism against white Westerners.

Regardless what morphic thinks or anyone else. Setting immigration at a reasonable level is most appreciated by many. Anyone who is planning on retiring

to a foreign country with under 60,000 baht would not be of any benefit to themselves let alone a Isan farm girl and the buffalo she may own. If you even have to question why do I need 60,000 or the 50,000 for europeans as the new regulations are suggesting your most likely not going to last a few months

before the whole peasant family has you bagged as a life long income.

Morphic your a moron keep talking. Hope your wearing boots they must be full.

Not that it is any of your business but I make more than 120,000 baht a month off long term investments I have and I am not 50 years old. I also know that maybe some time in life that I may want to live part time in other places besides thailand and most likely the other way around (part time in Thailand) and do it without the grace of others such as family and friends.

It seems so simple for you to always have someone else as your problem.

Grow up and be a man, get over yourself not being able to do it because of someone else.

Thaiquila

Anyway, I think the cliched advice that if you move you should NOT move only because a place is cheap is quite sound. I, like many, am most attracted to Thailand for a complex variety of reasons, and it certainly isn't the cheapest place.

This is way over Morons head that his 60,000 baht will not buy the same 10 years

on. DUH I have this much it will be the same value in 10 years. I can go off to thailand and live with buffalo for ever.

[Khun ?]

Migrating pensioners are a modern phenomenon, so it will take time for countries to adapt. The reasons behind the migration are fairly obvious: better climate, lower cost of living and preferably most of the amenities and comforts the migrants grew up with. Northern Europeans are migrating to Spain and the cheaper parts of southern Europe by the millions. Housing prices have gone up accordingly as the population has actually risen in some areas. In the near future, we will probably see English mayors and MPs in Spanish towns.

Asia gets comparitively few western pensioners, but will have to make adjustments if it wants to let them in. In the process, some of the rules will go through a series of changes. For example, it's a little strange that a pensioner needs a monthly income twice that of your average working age English teacher even though the cost of living should be lower for a pensioner. On the other hand, who wants to take care of an old foreigner with no visible means of support simply because he or she prefers not to be in their homeland?

My only objection to the new rules is that they are very rarely set by Thais, but rather by Chinese who have taken over the country. They are setting laws that benefit (some of) them. Westerners will be among those who lose out if Thailand's current leaders continue their programme but is this really our fight?

DavidM

Great post. You just can't get it through some of these peoples head.

Stop working and retiring is not the same. Just because you have a steady income does not mean you are retired, maybe not working. The comforts most westerners grow up with are not a whole lot cheaper in Thailand. I have said it before that the asian region is playing much more of an influence on Thailand

than the use to be western countries (yes we are has beens). These people that think they know so much must be young because they sure do not think that maybe when they get in their 50's and 60's they may want to stay around where they grew up or

family and friends and may just have a thai wife that they would like to accompany them. This whole thing of retiring is so one sided with these people it is like the rest of the world does not exist anymore once they get Thailand in their mind. It is the end all of all ends. They treat it like the first time they fell in love,

that is it for the rest of their life. Maybe a bit Morbid with Butt-Fly brains.

Always having a reason why something or someone else is the reason of their problems. Excuses are like arse most of them stink.

I sure would not want to go home after several years of living in Thailand telling everyone how wonderful I have it and then have to leach off everyone because you only have enough money to stay in Thailand nothing for vacations. Yeah we all know Thailand is a vacation for the rest of our life. We are not Thai, we will never be thai so get over it. If Thailand wanted anyone with a pension or income to be able to stay in Thailand for ever they would give long term visas on arrival but I guess some do not realize this. I guess it would take 5 minutes to think this out.

Then again it would be a good idea to send everyone on welfare to Thailand and cut their pay down to Isan wages, but who will be left to work to pay for welfare.

Happy Kings birthday to all!!!!

[Jeepz]

Well, I guess I should thank Khun for his posts. Not that they are particularly informative or well thought out. They aren't. He's got his ego centric view of the world, but most of us can can be indicted on that one, I suppose. What his blithering replies did, however, was bring some thoughtful responses from other board members. Their input was often insightful. And those are appreciated by myself and others, I am sure!

I learned about problems in Costa Rica I hadn't been aware of. The list of other potential retirement venues was quite interesting and the comments about which ones are really worthwhile makes good reading for the "about to retire" (or "bannished from work" set according to Khun).

Now Khun does have a point that what works now financially won't necessarily work in the future. But that is something that can happen anywhere. Some retiree's have a fixed income that won't change. Others get a cost of living bump occasionally, but it tied to the country they retired from, not where they retire to. But if we all froze at the thought that the sky was going to fall ten years down the road, we'd never get out of bed. Who knows what it will be. Maybe 30 baht to the dollar, but then it may be 100 baht to the dollar. Whatever it is then, it will be dealt with.

So I'm off to work, another blue collar yahoo doing his thing for a couple more years and then, when I get a good shot at it, I'm retiring wherever it makes sense. Uhmm, sense to me. I could give a rat's *** what Khun thinks.

Jeepz

And Merry Christmas to one and all (even Khun!)

[Khun ?]

http://finance.yahoo.com/m5?s=USD&t=THB&a=1&c=3

Jeepz

We really care you retire and you mean not everyone gets the same retirement thanks for telling us.. Oh jeepers weepers. Good synopsis dealing with problems

when it is a bit late when we should of done a little planning and prevention would of worked.

At least you mention that you will retire and not just exist lets hope your better side

will be allowed the visa to where ever you wish. Thanks for your time.

Brains and wisdom is always in need . Then again you may just be one of these people that buy the farm house for the gal and then she puts you out to pasture which happens about as much as not. Sell the house and car put the 800,000 in the bank to get the visa. In a few years time when your currency is down 30%

and the cost is up 20% your once a week night on the town is not so much

of a retirement after all, but then of course you said blue collar, so are you indicating you just have to be there and not work. Now thats a real rats backside

being retired at work. Good To you also.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

'tiz the season to be jolly. Take a rest from the insults please. Merry Christmas.

[Khun ?]

Doc

Sorry and Merry Christmas.

You see some of us have to take it out on the board as we had to stay at work

rather than be in Thailand.

It has been a love to hate week.

Hate Bush, Takisin and Khun

Love Saddam

Only one person who effects my plans and paycheck so all is well that ends well.

[sabaijai]

I'd like to expand on Thaiquila's comments on living long-term in Mexico. I had an FM-3 in Mexico for three years, so I know what the requirements are. It's a broad category that includes not only retirees but anyone who wants to stay long-term and can show means of support (other than working in Mexico of course). In order to get the FM-3 or inmigrante rentista visa, you just need to show a bank statement once a year, just like in Thailand. When last I checked, you need the equivalent of $1500 a month to qualify. You didn't actually have to show evidence of a monthly income, just a yearly bank statement pro-rated to that amount.

After five years on an FM-3 you can convert to permanent residency (inmigrante) relatively easily. The first five years of inmigrante status are probationary, after which it's permanent. Many of my friends there - including my ex-wife - have received PR, and in fact I don't know anyone who was eligible who was turned down. Unlike in Thailand you don't have to have lived in Mexico with a work permit to be eligible for PR.

So the regs for Mexico are, by and large, easier than for Thailand. That's the upside. However I generally found immigration officials, as well as most other Mexican govt bureaucrats, much less friendly than their Thai counterparts. There were occasional exceptions, officials who were helpful and friendly to an extreme even. But by and large trips to gov't offices in Mexico were, for me, like a trip to the dentist for a root canal. Applying for a Mexican driver's license was a nightmare of many, many return visits for things as simple as getting a photo (they wouldn't accept photos taken outside the office). In Thailand, by comparison, my experiences with Thai gov't offices have been brelatively painless.

As for the 180-day tourist visa, I just returned from a trip to Mexico in November, and I received the standard 180 days at the border, no questions asked.

[Thaiquila]

In order to get the FM-3 or inmigrante rentista visa, you just need to show a bank statement once a year, just like in Thailand. When last I checked, you need the equivalent of $1500 a month to qualify. You didn't actually have to show evidence of a monthly income, just a yearly bank statement pro-rated to that amount.

As for the 180-day tourist visa, I just returned from a trip to Mexico in November, and I received the standard 180 days at the border, no questions asked.

Thanks for the clarifications and insights about Mexico. I will keep this brief because I don't think this thread is really about non-Thai visa issues, though someone might want to start a new thread about this.

A couple of points on Mexico:

-- The Mex Peso has been stable and WEAK against the dollar, unlike most every other currency, so thats a big plus.

-- I believe you are correct, the current visa requirment is about 1500 month, and it floats based on an arcane formula tied to a multiple of mininum wage in Mexico City

-- The bank account showing proof of support, from my understanding, must show a FLOW of money (for example, a regular monthly deposit), not only a juicy total.

-- I have heard Mex immigration officials temperament varies based on region

-- Yes, many people get a 6 month entry stamp, but there is a lot of info out there saying many do not get the entire 6 months. Also, as an interesting parallel to the Thai visa walker controversy, it is technically against the rules to merely leave the country every 6 months and then reenter for a new tourist visa, though many do and have for years. This does seem to be more problematical; who knows, maybe it is a game being played between Mex Pres Fox and Bush over issues related to Mexican nationals in the US. Or maybe Fox and Thaksin had a chat!

[Thaiquila]

A couple of responses to Khun (or should we call him Khun Jai Dhum):

I think you need to get to Thailand on holiday, get some nice, relaxing massages, and enjoy the nightlife. Or perhaps, find another line of work that you don't hate so much that doesn't make you so bitter.

You need to chill, dude!

If people want to retire or even retire early with less money than you think is rational, really, what skin is it off your uptight ass? So they crap out, and you get to gloat. Sounds like thats what you live for anyway, so you should be ENCOURAGING it. Instead, you really sound jealous and you really sound like you HATE your workaholic life.

Some other food for thought on retirement:

A huge percentage of people wait too long to retire thinking they don't have enough money or aren't old enough, and then they die before they retire. Were they smart to wait?

The truly wise and lucky among us don't even think about retirement, or care to, because their work gives them joy, satisfaction, and meaning. Hey, this isn't me, maybe next life.

What is better? 5 years of enjoying retirement with lots of money, or 20 years of a retirement lifestyle where money is still a concern. Isn't this a personal decision with no right answer?

[Khun ?]

It is called childs play.

People that see something that they do not agree with make snide personal attacks for lack of any good reply. Charming they are, edge them on a bit and the real them appears. See them bumming around thailand all the time asking where is the cheapest border run or the cheapest something is.

Either way have a good holidays. I enjoy my work, just waiting for new visa laws

to take effect. There should be some real bargains to be had. I do not take any of this serious anyway.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Get some new year cool pills willya ? Happy New Year

[sabaijai]

I never had to show a 'flow' of money to Mexico, and neither did any FM3-ers I knew, across a fairly wide range of places (Todos Santos, BCS; Mexico DF; Puebla; San Miguel; Jalapa). However on the initial FM3 application I did list monthly incomes, just never followed them.

I'm sure you're right about civility of officials varying by region. But I didn't find the slowness varied at all .

I really feel sorry for expats who have businesses in Mexico, because if local immigration officials catch you so much as sweeping the floor at your place of business, whether a shop, restaurant or real estate brokerage, you can lose your work permit. Very strict, Mexico, about work categories. Again I'm sure this varies by region, but was a common complaint by those doing business in Mexico. They don't have any mechanism like the BOI here, either, whereby you can streamline a lot of the paperwork if you start your own business. Very few folks I knew doing business in Mexico lasted longer than five years. Come to think of it, the average in Thailand is probably not much better, but probably for reasons other than the bureaucracy.

I lived half the year in Thailand and half the year in Mexico for several years. I wanted to like Mexico, but it was always such a relief to be back in Thailand, so much more easy-going, efficient, clean .... (long list). I suppose people are 'born' to prefer one place over another, but I do think, from an overall, point-by-point, convenience-of-living perspective, Thailand has it all over Mexico. The one glaring exception being the ease of obtaining permanent residency.

One comment from my Thai girlfriend after she'd been in Mexico her first time, after about three weeks travel:

"Why is it that Mexico has four times the per-capita income of Thailand but looks four times poorer, is twice as dirty, and twice as expensive?" I had to chuckle, as she nailed it.

[naka]

Given his unearned income ( Grandma's will ? ) Khun should invest in some commas, quotation marks, grammar lessons etc.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Mightn't this be totally off topic Naka ? Or is an attempt to inflame ?

[Thaiquila]

People that see something that they do not agree with make snide personal attacks for lack of any good reply.

See them bumming around thailand all the time asking where is the cheapest border run or the cheapest something is.

... just waiting for new visa laws

to take effect. There should be some real bargains to be had. I do not take any of this serious anyway.

There should be some real bargains to be had.

Well, if you can't stand the heat, order your food aow mai phet.

Busted, sorry I do regret lowering myself to the level of personal insults, though you really have to admit, Mr. Khun is rather crafty at BAITING people to react.

So, in the spirit of the season, truce, peace on earth, good wheels for man (hey, pretty good for a non-Christian, eh?)

A few substantive points on Mr Khun's post:

I was talking in the context of retirees being legally allowed long visas based on reasonable finances for within Thailand, not based on what would buy a fabulous retirement on Park Avenue in New York.

I was not talking about impoverished people who have been doing 30 day walkess for years. On the walkees, I am on the side of tolerance, one really does not know the situation or life history of anyone, and you have to think sooner or later, they will be squeezed to another place or worse. Live and let live.

Regarding, how some people are always looking for bargains. Isn't that the nature of capitalism, for there to be different economic levels? Isn't that healthy? If there weren't lots of cheap folks, prices would not be under any pressure. Otherwise, there would no poor people for rich people to hire at slave wages and National Geographic would be out of business.

I am curious for you to clarify your point about waiting for visa bargains. Are you capable of clearly explaining what exactly you mean by that? From all I have read, the visa requirements are trending towards more expensive, not more cheap, so what do you mean?

[Thaiquila]

I never had to show a 'flow' of money to Mexico, and neither did any FM3-ers I knew, across a fairly wide range of places.

I suppose people are 'born' to prefer one place over another ...

It just feels wrong to go on about Mexico on a thai visa site, however,

-- thanks for correcting me, I will have to look into more details on FM3 visa applications if I ever want to do that, just in case you know, I have a friend who has social security pension of 1200 plus can generate over 300 a month in investment withdrawals (just by withdrawing a set percentage of her invested nest egg), do you think they would approve that, seeing as she dosesn't have the 1500 a month in income?

-- I totally agree that liking one country over another is really a matter of temperament, and I also like Thailand a lot better than Mexico.

I read some book once that talked about how when people do the grand Asia tour, some like this country, and some like that country, and what it says about their personality. Forget the book title though, oh well.

[strawberry]

living in Thailand

I've been here since 1991, came for a holiday, met a nice lady tried taking her back home but she fretted over her family so we came back. for me it was 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

i get a pension which nets me 65,000 to 70,000 a month and I comfortably support a Thai family. When I die my wife gets gets 75% of that, for a small village woman thats more than enough plus 8000 for my daughter. Of course I'm talking baht not dollars.

I'm one of the good guys, don't drink don't smoke don't break the law, seem to be respected by most of the Thai folks (and Chinese Thai's ) I spend one and a half hours a week at school helping the Thai english teacher with pronunciation. I'm not payed for that and don't expect to be. I support a wife and 3 school kids.

Its not easy living here but I committed myself to the family and I put up with difficulties because of that commitment. Fair dinkum it would be a whole lot easier living back in my home country.

I'm not the only good guy living here in Thailand, there are thousands of us. We are not paedophiles we don't hang around bars. We look after our families. We don't break the Thai laws.

What pisses me off is that there seems to be a lot of Thai people that gtet us mixed up with the horny tourist guys that come to Thailand to deflower the pretty Thai girls, ( bad bastards )

Of course the pretty Thai girls are supplied by Thai citizens.

I would appreciate it if the Thai government would recognise the difference how about some points fo rgood behaviour.

Merry Christmas Joe Strawberry

[chuckie]

I agree with those who suggest this is a forum about Thailand, but comparisons to other places, with good factual date, will help us all assess where we are and how we are doing.

Anyway, Sabaijai notes from his girlfriend: "Why is it that Mexico has four times the per-capita income of Thailand but looks four times poorer, is twice as dirty, and twice as expensive?" I had to chuckle, as she nailed it.

In fact, from http://siakhenn.tripod.com/capita.html you'd find the following data:

Mexico: purchasing power parity - $9,100 (2000 est.)

Thailand: purchasing power parity - $6,700 (2000 est.)

Most people on the board will know that PPP helps you compare income to cost of living - so in fact Mexico has almost 36% more income per capita.

I too prefer Thailand, but it is useful for people to continue to be aware of what is out there in the world.

My understanding for the FM3 was that for a while some people did have to demostrate income, but they only recycled money through their accounts - there was never a requirement as there is here - to demonstrate where the money came from.

Enjoy the holidays in Paradise!

[Khun ?]

Common sense will always prevail over someone who is book smart.

Being good in english will pay about 40,000 baht a month in Thiland

if you find it you could not manage a career before you got there.

Why waste the energy if you would of used your abilities on other

things other than reading lonely planet you might of been able to get the best of both worlds. Career management and a interest in financing long term goals are much more important.

If the new visa laws are enforced many foreigners may have to take what they

can get on condos, vehicles memberships at golf courses and whatever else before that long awaited trip back home to start over again. In the first 2 or 3 years of the crack down lets see how many continue to give advise and weasel

their way through like before.

Just barely making it month to month regardless of where you are is just

being a prisoner of your own doing and shows how smart you really are.

Taking advise on how you can continue to weasel your way through life is in lonely planet guide. Some day we all wish we had done things differently

so why not start when your young. Continuing to look for solutions how

you can just get by may be a conveniece you can least afford.

Each time someone shakes the tree of your dreams will you fallout.

Average life for most of us is 70, so no need to be careless and hasty.

Haste makes waste. Thailand is not going anywhere no time soon.

I find it interesting on how these failures like to give advice but then of course misery loves company. Anyways best said is vacation until you can manage

a decent life abroad and stay out of the way of busses. You will probably see 70

with ease and comfort. It does not take a brain surgeon to tell you where best to make your money. It is most likely not in Thailand no matter how bad you want to rush off and live the life. It is better laughing all the way to the bank than it is to the border. Either way good luck I would rather sit and drink my beers laughing at how smart these people really are. The last laugh is best. Please use the for sale section on the board. I may be buying.

[Khun ?]

living in Thailand 

I've been here since 1991, came for a holiday, met a nice lady tried taking her back home but she fretted over her family so we came back. for me it was 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

i get a pension which nets me 65,000 to 70,000 a month and I comfortably support a Thai family. When I die my wife gets gets 75% of that, for a small village woman thats more than enough plus 8000 for my daughter. Of course I'm talking baht not dollars.

I'm one of the good guys, don't drink don't smoke don't break the law, seem to be respected by most of the Thai folks (and Chinese Thai's ) I spend one and a half hours a week at school helping the Thai english teacher with pronunciation. I'm not payed for that and don't expect to be. I support a wife and 3 school kids.

Its not easy living here but I committed myself to the family and I put up with difficulties because of that commitment. Fair dinkum it would be a whole lot easier living back in my home country.

I'm not the only good guy living here in Thailand, there are thousands of us. We are not paedophiles we don't hang around bars. We look after our families. We don't break the Thai laws.

What pisses me off is that there seems to be a lot of Thai people that gtet us mixed up with the horny tourist guys that come to Thailand to deflower the pretty Thai girls, ( bad bastards )

Of course the pretty Thai girls are supplied by Thai citizens.

I would appreciate it if the Thai government would recognise the difference how about some points fo rgood behaviour.

Merry Christmas    Joe Strawberry

Strawberry your a good man may Bhuda continue to bless you with many days of happiness. Congats on sticking it out to get the pension.

If you are american you may want to check about your wife getting 80%. I think there is a law that she must live at least 5 years in The USA. At least a person who

would need to know this told me.

[KevinN]

I might as well get in on this as I have seen some things that I cannot agree with.

I lived in Mexico for a number of years and was married to a Mex. and had an FM3,But I was not real happy in Mexico,,to many thieves,even when you went to the market,you might come home and your butane bottles might be stolen and if you were going away for 2 days with your family,then you had to have someone in your house all the time you were gone or you would lose everything you had.

I was pulled out of my sleeping bag on the beach on a fishing trip and robbed of all my money,wallet,tools,food,fishing gear and everything that was in my pickup by 3 Mexicans [one of which was a federaly] with guns.

another time,my brother and I went into the mountains on a prospecting trip for 3 days,when we came back to ensenada his apartment in a court apt. complex had been robbed of close to $8,000 worth of electronic and other gear and even all his cloths were gone,the police caught the guys,but turned them loose because they couldn't find my brother that day, and refused to give back anything because they didn't have everything that he said was missing.

I do not care much for the inconsistency in the law enforcement here but the Mexican police are just to ###### crooked for me,every time a Mex cop seen a GRINGO, you knew it was gonna cost you a bribe, and was not only on the local level but all the way to the prez.

[Khun ?]

Given his unearned income ( Grandma's will ? ) Khun should invest in some commas, quotation marks, grammar lessons etc.

Naka

I would have to agree with you. I could do much better (even if I do type with one finger) if I wanted to. I guess reading tech manuals for most of the last 30 years did not help. Fact being I still help my parents out with retirement funds. I do not know any relatives that even know someone with money let alone get left a will. Maybe the house I bought my parents to retire to, will be sold when they are gone and for a good profit at that. I learned by watching others fail, it has been one of the best educations anyone could get. I find it easier trying not be like a failure than trying to be like someone that reached success. I scratced teaching english for money off my list, or even spending time learning it better. After all there is more people that use english, that are not good at it, now days. I do have a photographic memory and try to remember all Thai signs that are in English and use it when possible. I hope you plan on staying in Your ENGLISH language country because the stress could be to much on you. Capital gains are a nice way

of getting income even easier than teaching english. Stock markets open have to leave you to your english book. Good readen to you.

[sabaijai]

Mexico: purchasing power parity - $9,100 (2000 est.) 

Thailand: purchasing power parity - $6,700 (2000 est.)

Most people on the board will know that PPP helps you compare income to cost of living - so in fact Mexico has almost 36% more income per capita.

I know the difference between ppp and gnp and was purposely referencing the latter.

At any rate the ppp figs you quoted support my point, that the Thais (and those lucky to be resident in Thailand) have much more purchasing power relative to their raw gnp/capita than do their Mexican counterparts. To wit, Thais are paid four times less than Mexicans on average, yet suffer only 36% less purchasing power (by your figs).

Or:

Raw per capita income for Mexico is roughly US$8000, but actual ppp is a bit lower

Raw per capita income for Thailand isroughly US$2000, but actual ppp is much higher.

While I was living in Mexico I found it difficult to understand how locals could get by on their meagre incomes, considering the generally high cost of living. Of course Mexico by comparison has much less arable land per capita than Thailand. Food self-sufficiency has always been a great advantage for the kingdom.

On a much more subjective level, as much as expats in Thailand like to sit around and moan about the situation here, the 'moaning level' among expats in Mexico is way higher. I'd say that fully half the expats I met who lived in Mexico regretted having taken up residence there. However certain folks - a minority in my experience - really love the place. Of those that love living in Mexico, I know of almost none who have ever been to Asia or who have any desire to visit Asia. Yet virtually all my expat friends in Thailand have travelled somewhere in Latin America. I think that says a lot about the average international experience of non-immigrant expats living in Thailand vs those living in Mexico (at least 90% of whom are American).

And that's all I have to say on Mexico vs Thailand.

[Thaiquila]

OK, thanks Mr. Khun, you have explained (though not clearly) what you mean by how you hope to benefit by waiting for the visa increases.

This is understandable and a quite standard capitalist practice -- buy distressed property (whether stocks, condos, etc.) to get bargains and make profits. We are all playing that big circle of change, sometimes we are the buyers, sometimes we are the sellers.

I think your strategy is interesting. You won't win the Nobel prize though.

A comment on the concept of averages. If the average life expectancy is 70, that means a huge percentage of people will die before 70. Like they say, a recession if when you are unemployed, and a depression is when I am (now, that is 100 percent unemployment). So people who are planning their retirement will do best to ignore life expectancy statistics and take a cold, hard look at their own health, and this includes disease histories of their immediate family. There are websites available that ask a bunch of questions, and give you an answer. If you find that your life expectancy is shorter than you would like, that is an important factor (in addition to money) as to when to choose to retire.

Regarding your disdain and failure to value English language skills, well, it looks like the voters of the US will be agreeing with you about that in the next presidential election.

Its good that you like to laugh a lot, as I hear this is very good for life expectancy.

Cheers.

[shemmy]

Hey what's the situation on people that enter the country with old bad stamps in there pass. arethey stillgetting arested? what's the end result in these cases how much fine or time?

[Georgie-Porgie]

shemmy, You would probably get more responses if you started a new thread (click on new message) for this question.