หลังจากที่ไปถึง...

[aitch]

Hello,

Struggling with this...

Where will you be when i get there ?

หลังจากที่ผมไปถึงที่นั้นแล้วคุณก็จะอยู่ไหนครับ

Where do you think that you will be when I get there ?

หลังจากที่ผมไปถึงที่นั้นแล้วคุณก็คิดว่าจะอยู่ไหนครับ

Looking at...

Thai Reference Grammer (Higbie and Thinsan; Orchid Press; 2002) Chapter 15: Time Words; page 326; Notes on "When"'

"When" in English can be expressed as "after" in Thai if you're talking about two events happening consecutively.

example given: When I get to Cambodia I'll find out how to go to Angkor Wat.

หลังจากที่ไปถึงกัมพูชาแล้วผม(ก็)จะหาทางไปเที่วนครวัด

Situation at hand would be friend to friend, no plans to meet at the same location.

Any insight into that where/when structure would be appreciated though.

aitch

[aitch]

Sorry, I should be looking for two events happening 'simultaneously' not 'consecutively', regrouping...

[Tod Daniels]

While this probably doesnt help you in your questions, I thought it might be of interest never the less;

I would interpret this phrase หลังจากที่ผมไปถึงที่นั้นแล้ว just as an overly wordy way of saying; "After I get there". I think the word แล้ว is tied to ไปถึง and used as a time (or tense) marker denoting something like "once Ive arrived already". I'd leave out the word 'already' in the engrish translation like I did at first. The rest คุณก็จะอยู่ไหน; "Where will you be?" is good.

The other one is quite straightforward using คุณก็คิดว่าจะอยู่ไหน "Where do you think you'll be?" with คิดว่าจะ being a compound construct meaning sort of like "think that (you) will".

I wouldn't have translated the English of either sentence into the order you listed for the engrish meanings.

It's my experience Thai is an event ordered language; things are spoken of sequentially without breaks by order of occurrence. This happens, then after that, that happens, then some outcome. Thats also why youll see Thai stack verbs, one after another in order of occurrence without anything between them.

True I could be splitting hares here, but I'da written it in English as "After I get there, where will you be?" only because that's how the Thai was constructed. Just like the second one I'da translated as "After I get there, where do you think you'll be?" Now would a native speaker understand the other two sentences insofar as I was asking about a location AFTER I arrived? Of course, but did it say that exactly in Thai, dunno.

I think its pretty subjective trying to back translate Thai to engrish, and vice versa. Different people might word it differently and still the essence of the meaning is there.

OFF TOPIC:

I only mention this because recently I took a "translation test" Thai to English for a job interview. Certainly showing up for the test dressed in Levis and a black KISS tour t-shirt showed them I don't think much of "dressing for success" . I mostly wanted to check my ability to understand and back translate Thai into something resembling engrish.

I got dinged (marked down) on every question where I reordered the sentence's sequence of events when writing what I felt the English should really be. Then again, this wasn't a creative translation test, but more a write in English exactly what this says in Thai sort of thingy.

I didnt think it was all that hard of a test and they gave us an HOUR to get thru like a page of maybe 25-30 Thai sentences with them getting progressively longer. Out of the entire group of yuppies who took the test and who obviously (from the way they were dressed), wanted the job FAR more than I did; I was in the top two or three people.

FWIW: Some people didnt even manage to finish it after the entire hour. What made me sad was you were allowed use your mobile phone's dictionary to look up Thai words you didn't know! My phone is way too old to have a feature like that, so I had to 'wing' it, lol. ..

Still good questions. ..

Edited March 28, 2011 by tod-daniels

[Parvis]

I normally try to say everything in as few words as possible. Therefore my "modified" question would be in English:

"When I arrive there, where will you be? - translated into Thai per my limited knowledge:

"เมื่อผมมาถึงที่นั่น - คุณก็จะอยู่ไหน"

Would be very interesting to hear from some of the Thai Linguists on this forum on their recommendations.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Parvis

[aitch]

The Thai System of Writing (Mary Haas) took me at least 8 reads before it really sank in. I love that book. The content, the grind, it's commute friendly and cheap. This book has some of that same feel to it. Even the commute friendly part (on the big side but tough). One more chapter to go. I have been taking examples from TRG and then scanning thru The Lord of the Rings series to see if it will help me give it a go someday. It will.

I blundered into this thread but I am glad that I did now. Good timing before my next read. Tod and Parvis, Thank you.

- I should take it that much of this material should help me understand what it is that I would be simplifying for colloquial Thai.

- เมื่อ and มา. I'm definately in book mode > pull back > big picture > on the spot, closer to what I would actually say kind of thing.

Two pages back (when - in the future), This word 'ถ้า' I think 'if'. The word 'when' i think 'เมื่อ'. The grind part.

Back to the where/when...

Where will you go when it rains ?

เมื่อฝนตกคุณก็จะไปไหน

Where do you go when it rains ?

เมื่อฝนตกคุณก็ไปไหน

Where did you go when it rained ?

เมื่อฝนตกคุณก็ไปไหนมา

Where is an elf, when you need one ?

เอ็ลฟ์อยู่ไหนเมื่อต้องการคน

This is how it would come out without cross checking.

[tgeezer]

Quote

Struggling with this...

Where will you be when i get there ?

หลังจากที่ผมไปถึงที่นั้นแล้วคุณก็จะอยู่ไหนครับ

Where do you think that you will be when I get there ?

หลังจากที่ผมไปถึงที่นั้นแล้วคุณก็คิดว่าจะอยู่ไหนครับ

Looking at...

Thai Reference Grammer (Higbie and Thinsan; Orchid Press; 2002) Chapter 15: Time Words; page 326; Notes on "When"'

"When" in English can be expressed as "after" in Thai if you're talking about two events happening consecutively.

example given: When I get to Cambodia I'll find out how to go to Angkor Wat.

หลังจากที่ไปถึงกัมพูชาแล้วผม(ก็)จะหาทางไปเที่วนครวัด

Situation at hand would be friend to friend, no plans to meet at the same location.

Any insight into that where/when structure would be appreciated though. Quote

How is Angkor Wat spelt?

I feel that after in both Thai and English shows a relationship. The location of the 2nd person isn't related in the same sense, so although after is used in English by some people when is better. Compare after with the opposite word before; the 1st person could equally well ask that. I suppose that after means 1st person expects to have to find the 2nd person, whereas before assumes that the 2nd person will wait so that they might meet, but the actual situation requires that the 1st person knows where the 2nd person will be when he arrives.

The example referring to research after arrival means not before arrival, and again in English you could say when I arrive, but you would mean after, the reference says that in Thai หลังจาก is used for consecutive events. Whether that is true or not, it seems to me to be a simple case of showing time past( action accomplished,) just like แล้ว but also shows the relationship between two statements(situation changed).

เมื่อผมมาหา(คุณ) คุณจะรอทีไหน Where will you wait for me?

หลังจากผมมาอยู่ในบ้านแล้วคุณจะพักที่ไหน After I move-in where will you stay.

Where will you be after I arrive? if you use หลังจาก it seems a daft question, the answer is 'we will be together after you arrive'.

I am sure a grammarian can explain what I mean.

[tgeezer]

Quote

Struggling with this...

Where will you be when i get there ?

หลังจากที่ผมไปถึงที่นั้นแล้วคุณก็จะอยู่ไหนครับ

Where do you think that you will be when I get there ?

หลังจากที่ผมไปถึงที่นั้นแล้วคุณก็คิดว่าจะอยู่ไหนครับ

Looking at...

Thai Reference Grammer (Higbie and Thinsan; Orchid Press; 2002) Chapter 15: Time Words; page 326; Notes on "When"'

"When" in English can be expressed as "after" in Thai if you're talking about two events happening consecutively.

example given: When I get to Cambodia I'll find out how to go to Angkor Wat.

หลังจากที่ไปถึงกัมพูชาแล้วผม(ก็)จะหาทางไปเที่วนครวัด

Situation at hand would be friend to friend, no plans to meet at the same location.

Any insight into that where/when structure would be appreciated though. Quote

How is Angkor Wat spelt?

I feel that the location of the 2nd person in 'where will you be after I get there' isn't what is required; although after is used in English by some people when is better.

The example referring to research after arrival means not before going, and again in English you could say when I arrive in Cambodia. The reference says that in Thai หลังจาก is used for consecutive events. Whether that is true or not, it seems to me to be a simple case of showing the time period after arrival ถึงแล้ว. which is not what is required in this case.

เมื่อผมมาหา(คุณ) คุณจะรอทีไหน Where will you wait for me?

หลังจากผมมาอยู่ในบ้านแล้วคุณจะพักที่ไหน After I move-in where will you stay.

If you say หลังจาก the answer to the question 'Where will you be after I arrive?' is, 'we will be together after you arrive'.

[tgeezer]

This long unedited post No.6 of mine is an error, hopefully it can be removed.

Edited April 3, 2011 by tgeezer

[aitch]

The idea for the thread is coming from a situation where the day I plan on arriving is not certain but the month has been pegged (January). My friend may be in Thailand or one of three other countries for a university program (two month stints). I want to ask the same question and then see how the answer changes as that arrival date nears (hypothetical to more concrete).

For that, I am inclined to use Parvis' suggestion with คิดว่า: "เมื่อผมมาถึงที่นั่น คุณก็(คิดว่า)จะอยู่ไหน".

I am sure a grammarian can explain what I mean.

Unfortunately my foundation of English grammer is not so good and it has affected my ability to Learn Thai.

Thanks for mapping that explanation out tgeezer, It is very helpful.

[GarryP]

ตอนที่ผมไปถึง คุณจะอยู่ไหน perhaps