Muslim Women, Children Shield Marine Killers

[george]

Muslim women, children shield marine killers

BANGKOK: -- Suspected Islamist insurgents avoided capture after torturing to death two Thai marines by beating and stabbing the bound-and-gagged victims behind a human shield of defiant Muslim women and children, horrifying the government and plunging southern Thailand into a fresh security crisis.

Amid the world's most violent Islamist insurgency outside Iraq, angry and confused security forces hunted the elusive killers, described as three or four young men who ran away, leaving the marines' bloodied bodies in Tanyong Limo village.

"They were brutally beaten to death with machetes and sticks, while their hands and legs were tied up, and they were gagged and blindfolded," Lieutenant General Kwanchart Klaharn, commander of the Fourth Army and director of the Southern Border Provinces Peace-building Command, told reporters.

The bodies were locked inside a building near a mosque, prompting security forces to break down a door to gain access before transporting them to a hospital morgue, he said.

The brutality of the killings - coupled with the security forces' failed attempt to negotiate a peaceful resolution to the hostage crisis and the inability of the armed marines to defend themselves - was urgently being examined by politicians, peace activists, army generals and the Thai media.

"We will absolutely not let those two die for nothing. The law is the law," an agitated Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra told journalists after the killings Wednesday during a 19-hour stalemate between troops and villagers in violence-torn Narathiwat province.

"If I could, I would drop napalm bombs all over that village," a distraught Captain Traikwan Krairiksh was quoted in the Bangkok Post as saying after he viewed the bodies of his former subordinates in a pool of blood. "But the fact is, I can never do that. We are soldiers. We must follow the law. We can only take revenge by using the law."

Throughout the stand-off, scores of shouting Muslim women dressed in traditional headscarves stood with children, blocking troops from gaining access to the hostages, and erecting banners that blamed the authorities, including one in Thai that read: "You are in fact the terrorists."

Apparently hoping for a peaceful solution, troops did not attempt a forced rescue. The two experienced marines, armed with a US-supplied M-16 assault rifle and two pistols, were initially captured on Tuesday night when they stopped their vehicle near the village.

Locals blamed them for the drive-by shooting death of two men dining at a nearby tea shop earlier in the night, but authorities later explained that the marines were pursuing the unidentified killers and were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

More than 1,000 people on all sides have died in southern Thailand since January 4, 2004 when the smoldering rebellion flared in a so-called "night of the fires" attack on security forces, including synchronized arson assaults on 21 schools and a massive raid on a military base that netted the rebels hundreds of guns and heavy weapons.

Today, about 100 years after Thailand annexed the mostly ethnic Malay Muslim region, "mujahideen" holy warriors yearn for a separate state ruled by Islamic sharia law in a lush, tropical region where Islamists are waging similar insurgencies in the Philippines, Indonesia and elsewhere.

No one is sure who leads the increasingly sophisticated, disciplined and successful Muslim fighters in southern Thailand. The government blames indigenous rebel groups, allied with local Islamic schools, that are inspired by wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and by Osama bin Laden's call to force non-believers from Muslim territories.

The ongoing violence threatens to inflame strained relations between Buddhist-majority Thailand and Muslim-majority Malaysia, because Bangkok accuses Kuala Lumpur of not doing enough to stop suspected insurgents criss-crossing the porous border.

In July, the government clamped the south under a "state of emergency", in part using Article 17 - granting impunity to security forces so they cannot be prosecuted for killings or other acts while deployed. In August, when asked at a news conference if the decree was "a license to kill", Thaksin held up a toy sign marked with an X and sounded a toy's electronic beep to indicate the question was "not constructive".

Asked if international terrorists were involved in the south, the tense prime minister again held up his X sign and sounded his son's Japanese toy, a move that infuriated the media but which Thaksin defended as a stress-reliever to deal with "heavy" questions during the first of what he called the "PM meets the press" conferences.

Scores of Thai Muslim men are believed to have undergone guerrilla training or religious study in Afghanistan before the Taliban's collapse in 2001, and many returned to southern Thailand shunning the region's popular Sunni Islam - demanding instead the austere, retro-justice of Islam's Wahhabi sect, pushed by Saudi Arabia and Osama bin Laden.

Recent leaflets and word-of-mouth warnings in the south have called for all markets to shut on Fridays, Islam's traditional day of rest, or violators will be beheaded or have their ears chopped off. As a result, many businesses throughout the south have shut during the past several Fridays, either in fear or in sympathy.

A dozen people, mostly Buddhists, have been beheaded in seemingly random attacks in the south in a strategy "copied from the violence in Iraq", according to Thailand's Interior Minister Chidchai Vanasathidya.

Richard S Ehrlich is a Bangkok-based journalist from San Francisco, California. He has reported news from Asia since 1978 and is co-author of Hello My Big Big Honey!, a non-fiction book of investigative journalism. He received a master's degree from Columbia University's Graduate School of Journalism.

--Asia Times 2005-09-23

[The_Moog]

"If I could, I would drop napalm bombs all over that village,"

Thats the end of your military career, mate. Hope you weren't planning on Senior Command.

We can only take revenge by using the law."

His qualifying statement is not much better!

...and as for the author......

Richard S Ehrlich is a Bangkok-based journalist from San Francisco, California. He has reported news from Asia since 1978 and is co-author of Hello My Big Big Honey!, a non-fiction book of investigative journalism.

A watershed book in Thailand ! Pleased to see he's still going.

Edited September 23, 2005 by The_Moog

[britmaveric]

Good on the lad for speaking his mind, and I think his statements were pretty accurate on how you would feel if you were in his situation and just saw your soldiers hacked to death.

End of Career - more likely a new medal for his chest!!!

[The_Moog]

If Britmaveric had been around in the 19th century, he'd been one of the angry mob torching Victor Von Frankenstein's castle.

"Thar' be monsters within, arrr."

[britmaveric]

If Britmaveric had been around in the 19th century, he'd been one of the angry mob torching Victor Von Frankenstein's castle.

"Thar' be monsters within, arrr."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Moog - so torturing and hacking someone w/machete doesnt disturb you? We all say things out of anger, least he was able to say the law must be followed and this was the best course of action for the murderers.

[The_Moog]

Arrest the whole darn village and put them on trial as accomplices. yes.

Anyone in a position of responsibility even uttering the word 'napalm' within earshot of a newspaper is foolish !

The more moderate 2nd half of his quote may be cut out by News Agencies taking that story. Can you imagine if an American officer in Iraq said that.

I'd be interested to hear what our ex-military correspondents here feel.

[khall64au]

Where does the author get his facts? There are so many different versions of the events. His "napalm" quote was quoted from a Bangkok Post article and may have already been distorted from the original quote.

A well constucted story. But what of the accuracy?

[davethailand]

Good on the lad for speaking his mind, and I think his statements were pretty accurate on how you would feel if you were in his situation and just saw your soldiers hacked to death.

End of Career - more likely a new medal for his chest!!! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed

[howler]

Arrest the whole darn village and put them on trial as accomplices. yes.

Anyone in a position of responsibility even uttering the word 'napalm' within earshot of a newspaper is foolish ! 

The more moderate 2nd half of his quote may be cut out by News Agencies taking that story. Can you imagine if an American officer in Iraq said that.

I'd be interested to hear what our ex-military correspondents here feel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Beeing ex-military...and currently working in Iraq, Id like to comment on this.

First mentioning "napalm" was a mistake I'm sure he wishes he could take back. But only because it was said in "earshot" of the press. If he, or any body else who has ever had to deal with these fanatics, had thier way....they'd be dropping allot more than napalm on them. This kind of thing will never stop, the absolute hatred within these people...and the acts against humanity that they are willing to carry out are boundless. Have you ever seen an actual be-heading? Not one of those sanctioned by the state...but one carried out in a secret location, with a dull blade? I for one wish that this man and many ohters were finally set free to do what needs to be done!

[Butterfly]

Once again, the poor muslims are being victimized for a war they didn't start. And once again, when the "bully" is losing, he is "blaming" the victims for his mistakes.

[britmaveric]

Once again, the poor muslims are being victimized for a war they didn't start. And once again, when the "bully" is losing, he is "blaming" the victims for his mistakes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[sbk]

Poor muslims didn't start it? Are you serious? Do you know anything about the history of the separatist movement in the South? Do you know anybody from the South and have any idea what the living conditions are like for moderate muslims who just want to live in peace??? Do you know how many innocent teachers have been killed? How many schools have been bombed? The latest upsurge in violence is only an increase in violence that has been going on in the deep south for at least 30 years.

[The_Moog]

Have you ever seen an actual be-heading? Not one of those sanctioned by the state...but one carried out in a secret location, with a dull blade?

Have you seen one live? Can you tell us about it.

I've seen lots on Ogrish.com. The most explicit are the Chechen ones. In the Iraqi ones the victim is kneeling and usually falls over out of camera shot.

Edited September 24, 2005 by The_Moog

[Pakboong]

It was alot more fun in the old days demonizing the communists. Ah yes, a little civil unrest to keep our world on edge. Keeping in mind of course that enemies, real or imagined, are essential to our existence.

[JustAnotherFarang]

I am one of many who believe that what we read in the media is not always an accurate portrayal of the situation and with regards to the situation in the south, my suspicion and that of my thai colleagues is that there is a great deal of "black ops" taking place whilst the region remains under military control. The killings of monks, teachers and other innocents just seems to draw the ire of the "buddhists" in Thailand and maybe this is the overall aim of those who move in the shadows............divide the people and then conquer the enemy when public support is overwhelming.

It was stated that the villagers attacked the 2 soldiers because they where seen earlier participating in a "drive by" shooting and although I cannot assume that that is the case, there may well be some credence in that account which would explain why the villagers, men and women, would take the law into their own hands. They know full well that if the 2 soldiers had been involved in criminal activities, they are in fact unable to be prosecuted under the draconian laws that the South has to endure right now.

So for all those with anti muslim sentiments, stop to consider that maybe, just maybe, your conscience and thoughts are being manipulated by the mass media through smoke and mirrors and that there is a lot more to be read into this escalating situation if only you could step on through the looking glass. Those on the outside looking in really dont know anything and those looking from the inside, out are too afraid to speak out individually for fear of retaliation and worse.........

JAF as in Just another farang, UK born and bred

[sbk]

Actually, I have my information from a Muslim man who is from Pattalung. He had to leave. He was told that if he didn't join the movement he would be killed, if he did join then they would pay him a nice wage. He chose to leave as the did not want to get involved in trouble. This is a hardworking family man who only wants to live a peaceful life with his wife and son. I do not have anti-Muslim sentiment, I do, however, have a very bad feeling about people who insist on forcing their way of life onto everyone else (ie telling local businesspeople in the south that they are not allowed to work on Saturday and killing anyone, Muslims included, who is found working). Yes, there are "black ops" by the govt, just as there are killings on the other side too. Doesn't make the govt right and it doesn't make the separtists right either.

[Pakboong]

Actually, I have my information from a Muslim man who is from Pattalung. He had to leave. He was told that if he didn't join the movement he would be killed, if he did join then they would pay him a nice wage. He chose to leave as the did not want to get involved in trouble. This is a hardworking family man who only wants to live a peaceful life with his wife and son.  I do not have anti-Muslim sentiment, I do, however, have a very bad feeling about people who insist on forcing their way of life onto everyone else (ie telling local businesspeople in the south that they are not allowed to work on Saturday and killing anyone, Muslims included, who is found working). Yes, there are "black ops" by the govt, just as there are killings on the other side too. Doesn't make the govt right and it doesn't make the separtists right either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There may be several governments involved and they may not be the ones to which you refer. Understanding the world position on this helps one understand what appears on the surface. Defining an enemy is big business and is not played overtly. The billions at stake will always make it so. IMO the only crime in this is ignorance coupled with failure to look beyond what appears obvious.

[Butterfly]

Have you ever seen an actual be-heading? Not one of those sanctioned by the state...but one carried out in a secret location, with a dull blade?

Have you seen one live? Can you tell us about it.

I've seen lots on Ogrish.com. The most explicit are the Chechen ones. In the Iraqi ones the victim is kneeling and usually falls over out of camera shot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have the Chechen one on file but couldn't watch it. Too gross. I don't mind the Japanese Fecal Porn (Tub Girls, Goatse etc...) but this I know I can't watch. I was told the sound of the guy when screaming was horrible. The Iraqi video could be fakes with the final kill being done later, a setup by the Mossad or the CIA to piss off the American public. Orange suits ? please give me a break

[Butterfly]

It was alot more fun in the old days demonizing the communists.  Ah yes, a little civil unrest  to keep  our world on edge. Keeping in mind of course that enemies, real or imagined, are essential to our existence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep. How convenient. When they are done with the Muslims, who else will it be ? Christians, Jewish have been "victimized" already so they will need a new "bitch" real soon. What about Aliens ? the possibilities would be endless.

[meemiathai]

The Iraqi video could be fakes with the final kill being done later, a setup by the Mossad or the CIA to piss off the American public. Orange suits ? please give me a break 

And ghosts exist too!

If u want to post jokes pls post them in the jokes section.

[The_Moog]

In terms of art direction and cinematography, the Chechen one is the top video, as the executioner keeps his foot on the neck of the condemned man.

Consequently he keeps still when they're cutting his head off and doesn't wriggle around whingeing and screaming.

Did you notice that before the head-severing, they just jab the knife slightly into his cheek. He winces sharply and that seems to bother him far more than having his noggin cut off.

[JemJem]

(ie telling local businesspeople in the south that they are not allowed to work on Saturday and killing anyone, Muslims included, who is found working).

Dear Sbk, just a little correction... that must be 'Friday', not 'Saturday'.......Friday is the so-called 'Muslim holy day'.

Let's hope that common sense and humanism will prevail in the South...this might not happen any time soon but let's be optimistic.

Cheers,

Jem

[JemJem]

Gees.........some of you guys are really SICK........writing about the terrible beheadings of people in such a manner...you seem to have enjoyed watching such stuff.....SICK !

Jem

[JustAnotherFarang]

Gees.........some of you guys are really SICK........writing about the terrible beheadings of people in such a manner...you seem to have enjoyed watching such stuff.....SICK !

Jem

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed, please keep your gory recollections to yourself please, some of us cared never to see or hear such heinous detail. Its morally repugnant

JAF

Worse still, the 2 members discussing those incidents are senior members and not just some trolls looking to sensationalize their posts. You would think they would know the rules of decorum on this forum

Edited September 24, 2005 by JustAnotherFarang

[The_Moog]

decorum on this forum

(That rhymes, you should be the Forum Poet)

Actually, morbid fascination with death has been going on since the Tyburn hangings and Madame Guillotine.

Public Executions I believe are still carried out in Saudi Arabia.

Pattaya City News is another site dealing in existential reality.

[JustAnotherFarang]

decorum on this forum

(That rhymes, you should be the Forum Poet)

Actually, morbid fascination with death has been going on since the Tyburn hangings and Madame Guillotine.

Public Executions I believe are still carried out in Saudi Arabia.

Pattaya City News is another site dealing in existential reality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, you are right, but alas the ghouls who watched the guillotines fall did not have video cameras to record it for your pleasure and morbid delectation.

Maybe you should hop on a plane to Saudi, nothing quite like a live show to whet your salacious appetite......

[Pie Boy]

In terms of art direction and cinematography, the Chechen one is the top video, as the executioner keeps his foot on the neck of the condemned man.

Consequently he keeps still when they're cutting his head off and doesn't wriggle around whingeing and screaming.

Did you notice that before the head-severing, they just jab the knife slightly into his cheek. He winces sharply and that seems to bother him far more than having his noggin cut off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did anybody else find this post funny?

Oh moog your a wonderful poster.

[The_Moog]

Thanks, and welcome to the Fan Club, but it wasn't actually meant to be funny.

More a wry dig against those (military) who were giving the wink yesterday to a napalm attack on the southern village.

The Royals in Thailand (notably Queen Sirikit) advocate a peaceful solution, and for 24 hours the Government always agrees to the undeniable common sense of that approach. Then resorts to its usual strongarm tactics.

Edited September 24, 2005 by The_Moog

[Totster]

Thanks, and welcome to the Fan Club, but it wasn't actually meant to be funny.

More a wry dig against those who were gleefully giving the wink yesterday to a napalm attack on the southern village.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's just lost on some people eh moog !!

totster

[khall64au]

In terms of art direction and cinematography, the Chechen one is the top video, as the executioner keeps his foot on the neck of the condemned man.

Consequently he keeps still when they're cutting his head off and doesn't wriggle around whingeing and screaming.

Did you notice that before the head-severing, they just jab the knife slightly into his cheek. He winces sharply and that seems to bother him far more than having his noggin cut off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did anybody else find this post funny?

Oh moog your a wonderful poster.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I must admit I almost fell out of the tree... coming from the mouth of Pooh Bear and all