English Proficiency Ranking Of 44 Countries

[oshoshitzu]

Let's make an equally fair comparison of English speaking people living in Thailand for 5 years or more. How many of them speak fluent Thai? You know, enough to actually CONVERSE with Thai people.

I was on a ferry to Koh Samet while sitting beside 3 blokes who were talking steadily amongst each other. It was half an hour before I realized they were actually speaking English. As it turned out they were Cockney Londoners on their first trip to Thailand. I only understood about one out of 10 words they spoke. Hey, but what should I know, I'm only a Canadian.

When my Thai wife first heard Cockneys speak she thought they were speaking Cantonese

[JurgenG]

Let's make an equally fair comparison of English speaking people living in Thailand for 5 years or more. How many of them speak fluent Thai? You know, enough to actually CONVERSE with Thai people.

I was on a ferry to Koh Samet while sitting beside 3 blokes who were talking steadily amongst each other. It was half an hour before I realized they were actually speaking English. As it turned out they were Cockney Londoners on their first trip to Thailand. I only understood about one out of 10 words they spoke. Hey, but what should I know, I'm only a Canadian.

When my Thai wife first heard Cockneys speak she thought they were speaking Cantonese

Thanks to my mother I've quite a good command of French but while visiting friends in Canada I managed to upset a couple of them by insisting to speak in English. It's not that I'm particularly fond of the english language , but I couldn't understand what they were talking about. Even for the few words I understood, the meaning seems to be different from what I've learned.

But nothing worse than my experience in Australia. A good friend of my gf was dating this guy from Auckland and we used to double-date. It was really awkward. I couldn't understand a word of what he was talking about, our conversation were full of really embarassing silences. Even now, I'm always nervous when we go to visit them (they are married and have two beautiful children)

Edited April 4, 2011 by JurgenG

[mark45y]

I was watching the head guy at Buckingham palace on the BBC talk about the upcoming wedding preparations. Absolutely perfect English. Anywhere in the world with no accent he was perfect. Americans would have understood him perfectly, or anyone else. They interviewed some others in the kitchen and their English was filled with accents but not the head man, he was perfect. Whoever he is they need to record him as a model for how all of us should speak when teaching.

[jackr]

I'm amazed that France scored higher than Thailand

And me. Having worked there for 6 months, found the level of proficiency very slack for a first world, EU nation. Much of that is down to envy from the powers that and, of course, 'not wanting to dilute their culture'.

These threads are always interesting, though, in that they immediately bring out the English language/people bashers... like why should we all have to be speaking it. Well, you know what, you don't and if you even find yourselves asking that question, you're either in denial or there's really no hope.

Anyway, even if this list is not very accurate, the point being that Thailand does indeed have a poor grasp of English. Remarking on 'well, can you speak Thai', or similar, is needlessly off-tangent and a waste of bandwidth.

[Max2010]

I think Thais are better at English than this list implies.

I agree with you Farang000999. There is no way in hell Japanese speak better English than Thais. As a resident in Japan, I know for certain that very few Japanese speak English including the Japanese English teachers in public schools!! Chinese students speak much better English than Japanese and yet they are ranked lower than Japan. The only Japanese who speak English fluently are those who have lived abroad or are rich enough to go to international schools in Tokyo. This list does not reflect reality at all. Many people in the Middle East speak English as well yet they are ranked at the bottom, what rubbish!!

Max2010

[SteeleJoe]

FWIW (not a lot):

Average TOEFL iBT Score by Country

Afghanistan - 71/120 Albania - 78/120 Albania - 78/120 Algeria - 75/120 Angola - 67/120 Argentina - 94/120 Armenia - 82/120 Austria - 97/120 Azerbaijan - 74/120 Bahrain - 76/120 Bangladesh - 82/120 Belarus - 87/120 Belgium - 97/120 Benin - 64/120 Bhutan - 85/120 Bolivia - 80/120 Bosnia and Herzegovina - 84/120 Botswana - 84/120 Brazil - 86/120 Bulgaria - 87/120 Burkina Faso - 65/120 Cambodia - 68/120 Canada - 91/120 Chad - 71/120 Chile - 83/120 China - 76/120 Colombia - 81/120 Congo - 61/120 Congo - 72/120 Costa Rica - 93/120 Cote D'Ivoire - 66/120 Croatia - 92/120 Cuba - 78/120 Cyprus - 78/120 Czech R. - 91/120 Denmark - 100/120 Dominican Republic - 80/120 Ecuador - 84/120 Egypt - 80/120 El Salvador - 86/120 Estonia - 96/120 Ethiopia - 76/120 Faroe Islands - 87/120 Finland - 97/120 France - 88/120 French Polynesia - 80/120 Gabon - 71/120 Gambia - 59/120 Georgia - 80/120 Germany - 96/120 Ghana - 76/120 Greece - 88/120 Guatemala - 79/120 Guinea - 68/120 Honduras - 85/120 Hong Kong - 81/120 Hungary - 91/120 Iceland - 95/120 India - 90/120 Indonesia - 79/120 Iran - 77/120 Iraq - 74/120 Israel - 94/120 Italy - 88/120 Jamaica - 79/120 Japan - 67/120 Jordan - 76/120 Kenya - 76/120 Kosovo - 74/120 Kuwait - 67/120 Kyrgyzstan - 81/120 Lao - 60/120 Latvia - 87/120 Lebanon - 81/120 Liberia - 68/120 Libya - 64/120 Lithuania - 87/120 Luxembourg - 99/120 Macao - 70/120 Macedonia - 85/120 Madagascar - 78/120 Malaysia - 88/120 Mali - 57/120 Mauritania - 62/120 Mauritius - 94/120 Mexico - 86/120 Moldova - 85/120 Monaco - 83/120 Mongolia - 75/120 Montenegro - 83/120 Morocco - 77/120 Mozambique - 66/120 Myanmar - 70/120 N. Korea - 75/120 Nepal - 77/120 Netherlands - 101/120 Netherlands Antilles - 80/120 Nicaragua - 84/120 Niger - 69/120 Nigeria - 78/120 Norway - 94/120 Oman - 66/120 Pakistan - 88/120 Palestine Territories - 70/120 Paraguay - 84/102 Philippines - 88/120 Poland - 88/120 Portugal - 96/120 Puerto Rico - 88/120 Qatar - 61/120 Reunion - 89/120 Romania - 93/120 Russia - 85/120 Rwanda - 69/120 S. Korea - 81/120 Saudi Arabia - 62/120 Senegal - 65/120 Serbia - 86/120 Sierra Leona - 69/120 Singapore - 99/120 Slovakia - 88/120 Slovenia - 95/120 Somalia - 69/120 South Africa - 97/120 Spain - 88/120 Sri Lanka - 81/120 Sudan - 72/120 Syria - 76/120 Taiwan - 74/120 Tajikistan - 67/120 Tanzania - 66/120 Thailand - 74/120 Togo - 68/120 Tunisia - 77/120 Turkey - 77/120 Turkmenistan - 80/120 UAE - 64/120 Uganda - 80/120 Ukraine - 84/120 United Kingdom - 93/120 Uruguay - 93/120 USA - 86/120 Uzbekistan - 76/120 Venezuela - 84/120 Viet Nam - 70/120 West Bank - no data Yemen - 67/120 Zambia - 86/120 Zimbabwe - 89/120

EDIT:

Whoa! That came out all funky, format wise. oh, well it's not really useful enough to bother with trying to fix it. Never mind.

Edited April 4, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[toybits]

Just been to Cambodia last month and found that there seems to be more Cambodians that speak decent English. Thais should get worried. Too bad Cambodia did not make the list either. Nor did the Philippines, Malaysia, Burma or Singapore. Wonder why?

[Jingthing]

I make a point of asking Thais if they speak English before speaking to them in English with anything more than simple words. In my experience, 9 times out of 10, after they say YES, and then I speak a moderate level sentence, I get a total blank stare in response. I guess they don't know how to say, a little.

[SteeleJoe]

Just been to Cambodia last month and found that there seems to be more Cambodians that speak decent English. Thais should get worried. Too bad Cambodia did not make the list either. Nor did the Philippines, Malaysia, Burma or Singapore. Wonder why?

How much you want to bet that English First doesn't run any language schools there? That'd be my first guess.

[Lodestone]

FWIW (not a lot):

Average TOEFL iBT Score by Country

EDIT:

...

Whoa! That came out all funky, format wise. oh, well it's not really useful enough to bother with trying to fix it. Never mind.

Average TOEFL iBT Score by Country

Rank Country Score (out of 120)

1 Netherlands 101

2 Denmark 100

3 Luxembourg 99

4 Singapore 99

5 Austria 97

6 Belgium 97

7 Finland 97

8 South Africa 97

9 Estonia 96

10 Germany 96

11 Portugal 96

12 Iceland 95

13 Slovenia 95

14 Argentina 94

15 Israel 94

16 Mauritius 94

17 Norway 94

18 Costa Rica 93

19 Romania 93

20 United Kingdom 93

21 Uruguay 93

22 Croatia 92

23 Canada 91

24 Czech R. 91

25 Hungary 91

26 India 90

27 Reunion 89

28 Zimbabwe 89

29 France 88

30 Greece 88

31 Italy 88

32 Malaysia 88

33 Pakistan 88

34 Philippines 88

35 Poland 88

36 Puerto Rico 88

37 Slovakia 88

38 Spain 88

39 Belarus 87

40 Bulgaria 87

41 Faroe Islands 87

42 Latvia 87

43 Lithuania 87

44 Brazil 86

45 El Salvador 86

46 Mexico 86

47 Serbia 86

48 USA 86

49 Zambia 86

50 Bhutan 85

51 Honduras 85

52 Macedonia 85

53 Moldova 85

54 Russia 85

55 Bosnia-Herz. 84

56 Botswana 84

57 Ecuador 84

58 Nicaragua 84

59 Paraguay 84

60 Ukraine 84

61 Venezuela 84

62 Chile 83

63 Monaco 83

64 Montenegro 83

65 Armenia 82

66 Bangladesh 82

67 Colombia 81

68 Hong Kong 81

69 Kyrgyzstan 81

70 Lebanon 81

71 S. Korea 81

72 Sri Lanka 81

73 Bolivia 80

74 Dominican Rep. 80

75 Egypt 80

76 Fr. Polynesia 80

77 Georgia 80

78 Neth. Antilles 80

79 Turkmenistan 80

80 Uganda 80

81 Guatemala 79

82 Indonesia 79

83 Jamaica 79

84 Albania 78

85 Albania 78

86 Cuba 78

87 Cyprus 78

88 Madagascar 78

89 Nigeria 78

90 Iran 77

91 Morocco 77

92 Nepal 77

93 Tunisia 77

94 Turkey 77

95 Bahrain 76

96 China 76

97 Ethiopia 76

98 Ghana 76

99 Jordan 76

100 Kenya 76

101 Syria 76

102 Uzbekistan 76

103 Algeria 75

104 Mongolia 75

105 N. Korea 75

106 Azerbaijan 74

107 Iraq 74

108 Kosovo 74

109 Taiwan 74

110 Thailand 74

111 Congo 72

112 Sudan 72

113 Afghanistan 71

114 Chad 71

115 Gabon 71

116 Macao 70

117 Myanmar 70

118 Palestine Terr. 70

119 Viet Nam 70

120 Niger 69

121 Rwanda 69

122 Sierra Leona 69

123 Somalia 69

124 Cambodia 68

125 Guinea 68

126 Liberia 68

127 Togo 68

128 Angola 67

129 Japan 67

130 Kuwait 67

131 Tajikistan 67

132 Yemen 67

133 Cote D'Ivoire 66

134 Mozambique 66

135 Oman 66

136 Tanzania 66

137 Burkina Faso 65

138 Senegal 65

139 Benin 64

140 Libya 64

141 UAE 64

142 Mauritania 62

143 Saudi Arabia 62

144 Congo 61

145 Qatar 61

146 Lao 60

147 Gambia 59

148 Mali 57

149 West Bank no data

[SteeleJoe]

Hey, thanks.

[JurgenG]

Average TOEFL iBT Score by Country

Who gives a dam_n about TOEFL besides the hopeless losers who're looking for a job in Khao San Road ?

I've more respect for people picking fruits in Australia than for those looking for a teaching job in Thailand.

People who did both know why.

Edited April 4, 2011 by JurgenG

[SteeleJoe]

TOEFL not TEFL. 2 completely different things.

"The Test of English as a Foreign Language, or TOEFL, evaluates the ability of an individual to use and understand English in an academic setting."

And by the way, I'm sure it's very satisfying to be all superior and such and understand your reliance on trite stereotypes and all, but plenty of highly qualified teachers -- including many with graduate and post grad degres in education and experience in the finest schools abroad -- also have TEFL qualifications. Any language school I'd be willing to send my kids to (if they weren't already bilingual) would have teachers with TEFL training.

EDITED FOR FORMAT AND TYPOS

Edited April 4, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[SteeleJoe]

I've more respect for people picking fruits in Australia than for those looking for a teaching job in Thailand.

Personally i don't generally judge people -- or grant or withold respect for them -- based on their jobs (as long as said jobs are legal and ethical): I'm sure there are plenty of fruit-pickers worthy of respect. Odds are that applies to folks looking for teaching jobs in Thailand.

[appropriate]

Would probably be a lot higher if they used bargirls instead of university students.

[Oberkommando]

I think Thais are better at English than this list implies.

I don't.

[SteeleJoe]

I think Thais are better at English than this list implies.

I don't.

Nor do I, necessarily (hard to say with any real accuracy as I certainly haven't been everywhere on the list. )

And I base this on decades of experience with Thais from a wide array of socio-economic levels (including the otherwise highly educated) and many, many of them in service industries or other jobs where English language skills are relevant . Moreover as one ho has hired and/or trained Thais (university graduates) I've had the opportunity to get to know the people who are some of the big providers of TEFL teachers (international concerns run by highly qualified and professional people) and have talked at length about their business and the Thais' English language skills in general.

[Moonrakers]

Average TOEFL iBT Score by Country

Who gives a dam_n about TOEFL besides the hopeless losers who're looking for a job in Khao San Road ?

I've more respect for people picking fruits in Australia than for those looking for a teaching job in Thailand.

People who did both know why.

I think you have just said a great deal about yourself with those comments.

I am no teacher and I never never will be, but I do know of plenty of honest and hard-working teachers out there.

[Moonrakers]

I think Thais are better at English than this list implies.

I don't.

Me neither

[JurgenG]

I think Thais are better at English than this list implies.

I don't.

Me neither

Who cares

_

Edited April 4, 2011 by JurgenG

[Moonrakers]

I think Thais are better at English than this list implies.

I don't.

Me neither

Who cares

_

Well that told me, didn't it.

Wibble

[SteeleJoe]

Well that told me, didn't it.

I bet his dad can beat up your dad!

[Thakkar]

There's no doubt that knowing more languages, and a major global language like English in particular, is socially rewarding, intellectually stimulating and economically profitable. The subject of English proficiency is a perennial topic in Asia, eliciting much hand-wringing. Smarter people than I have had something like this to say on the subject:

Learning a language is a big investment in effort, time and money. Non-English speakers will not learn it merely for the convenience of English speakers like us. While it would certainly be nice if more people were better at English (including native speakers themselves), people will weigh learning it against other uses for their limited rescources. English proficiency is a function of need and every economy has the exact proficiency that employers are willing to pay for.

[SteeleJoe]

Learning a language is a big investment in effort, time and money.

Absolutely.

Non-English speakers will not learn it merely for the convenience of English speakers like us.

Of course not! Nor should they.

While it would certainly be nice if more people were better at English (including native speakers themselves), people will weigh learning it against other uses for their limited rescources.

Indeed.

...every economy has the exact proficiency that employers are willing to pay for.

I don't buy that at all. (If it only it were so simple -- just pay some money and presto chango your workforce can speak English well!)

Thais study English for years and years in school. Quite often they take more than one course at language schools (often provided by their employer). This has been so for a long time. But still they so often don't have the skills that their employers want or need. (I personally have known many an otherwise well educated and successful Thai who had hit a ceiling because of his lack of proficiency in English -- and at 35 or older here he/she is working a 50 hour week AND attending classes at a pre-intermediate level, making very slow progress --because indeed it takes quite a while to make real progress especially to the level required)

[IanForbes]

I wonder who would speak better English... The Thai bar girls working in Pattaya or the academic Thais working in a Bangkok office?

[SteeleJoe]

I wonder who would speak better English... The Thai bar girls working in Pattaya or the academic Thais working in a Bangkok office?

Personally, I reckon...

Fluency? Ability to effectively communicate? Most bargirls.

Accuracy? Maybe a draw verbally though most office workers could probably do better on a written test. (Mind you, there's obviously a wide range of people who are "office workers" - and I'm not sure what you mean by "academic Thais".)

[appropriate]

Ones that can add 5+7 without removing their shoes and socks.

[Thakkar]

...every economy has the exact proficiency that employers are willing to pay for.

I don't buy that at all. (If it only it were so simple -- just pay some money and presto chango your workforce can speak English well!)

Admittedly, I'm over-symplyfying. But incentives do matter. And of course, even given sufficient incentives, things won't change overnight. The pay difference between an English-fluent competent engineer and an English-adequate competent engineer would have to be quite substantial for the latter to invest in English education. As things stand, it's more productive and easier to invest in upgrading ones engineering skills, or even schmoozing one's way up the career ladder.

Thais study English for years and years in school. Quite often they take more than one course at language schools (often provided by their employer). This has been so for a long time. But still they so often don't have the skills that their employers want or need. (I personally have known many an otherwise well educated and successful Thai who had hit a ceiling because of his lack of proficiency in English -- and at 35 or older here he/she is working a 50 hour week AND attending classes at a pre-intermediate level, making very slow progress --because indeed it takes quite a while to make real progress especially to the level required)

By age 35, sadly, it may be too late for him/her as by now there would be other demands on their time, like family.

Even in Hongkong, more time and effort is spent teaching English in schools than any other subject, and, as in Thailand, with dismal results. Unlike Asian languages that I'm familiar with, English grammar is notoriously difficult to get a handle on without full immersion learning. I should know, because it wasn't until age eight, soon after arriving in HK, that I learned the English alphabet and went on to struggle for years before finding that English groove. I became fluent in Cantonese long before I became fluent in English. This is mainly because, in HK, I was surrounded by Cantonese speakers, but had little opportunity to engage with English speakers.

Is all that time and resource expended teaching English—ultimately for the most part, ineffectually—a foolish waste? I think so. The stress, boredom and feelings of failure among the majority of kids who fail to learn is palpably damaging and scars them with an inferiority complex that English speakers are somehow smarter simply by virtue of knowing English.

Sure, English proficiency is a desirable goal. But, as you've noted, the current system—whether it be schools or workplace incentives—isn't working. With schools, I don't know the solution but I know that doubling down on what's not working can't be it. In the workplace, I strongly believe that a large enough incentive at the right time (that being fresh graduate hires, who, at that age, have the required time, drive and aptitude) would spur greater English proficiency.

But would it be worth it for employers? I think most employers have decided that it wouldn't. They've decided that good enough is good enough. Of course, that doesn't stop them from complaining ad nauseam and demanding that governments invest more and more money in English education.

[PattayaParent]

Hey, but what should I know, I'm only a Canadian.

No meed to apologise for that, we forgive you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuY3oLmzkjE

[PattayaParent]

USA isn't on the list either, I remember when USA had a lower literacy rate than Philippines and Philippines doesn't even make the top 44!

Uhh, news flash!! The O/P's post is NOT about literacy, but about proficiency in engrish. Must be your second language huh? Keep up with those ESL classes they'll pay off .. Just joking. :jap: .. ..

Actually in outright literacy in their native language Thailand is pretty close to the top 'o the heap, far ahead of the US or UK. Although I'm more than a little suspect of any figures or stats which come from the government.

I do find it strange that the Phillipines doesn't make the top 44 in engrish proficiency as they're far more adept at speaking engrish than I've seen err heard around these parts. Then again, maybe they were exempt and considered a native engrish speaking country in this instance.

Are you sure 'drunk' isn't an honest to goodness second language . I hear it spoken all the time here by foreigners and Thais alike!

Ahhhhhhhh, English PROFICIENCY, no wonder USA didn't make it on the list.:jap:

I hear (and read) quite a lot of Farangs speaking fluent bullsh*t at times too.