DSI Wants Red-Shirt Leaders Back In Jail For Violating Bail Conditions

[bf2002]

Who cares!!!

Seriously, are you a thai national? can you vote?

you only concerns should be how and what said politicians might or might not improve or maintain your ability to stay and/or visit Thailand, own any RE here (if you do or want to one day), and/or enjoy whatever you come to thailand for (and trust me, I know there are many many reasons people come here outside of the nightlife, both of which Thaksin and the current PM are making very difficult).

In the other paper today that most intelligent and perceptive commentator, Vorani Vanijaka, covers this issue.Your criticism of Thaksin while reasonable is I think a bit wide of the mark.His statement was in fact (pause for the usual suspects to choke on their own vomit)... admirable and should be taken seriously by all sides.Of course he has ulterior motives - which politician doesn't but if he wants to appear presidential (ie unbiased and above the fray) that is surely a good thing.The more telling criticism is that Thaksin was as bad as any other scummy politician in throwing LM charges around left, right and centre when he was in power.

Vorani's main point is that abuse of LM by politicians is the ultimate form of disrespect, and should be punished accordingly.At the moment there are no consequences for abuse of the law.

While it would be good if politicians, and non-politicians, stopped abusing (and even using) the LM laws, a statement like that coming from Thaksin is a bit hard to take at face value.

[phiphidon]

Does anybody, apart from Tharit, know what the alleged offences are? Presumably we'll find out when he pushes charges on Monday? How many times is it now has he tried to get bail revoked? A man on a mission.

No. That is one of the problems with the LM laws. The details of the offense can't be reported, otherwise the reporter would also be charged with LM.

You just have to take their word for it.

Thank you, my point exactly.

Then your point in reply to my post above is different than what I was referring to. I was not referring to the LM charges, but the condition of the bail not to be involved in provoking unrest.

Sorry, Bucholz, like Thaksin, this isn't all about you. Is your name in any of the posts above (apart from the one post you've erroneously inserted)? No. I was replying to whybother, if that's ok by you.

[johncat1]

It would be nice to see people accused of terrorism in jail and the cases to move forward. Arisaman is only about 12 months late turning himself in after all

The Reds are obviously just playing delaying tactics, Because they believe they will regain power and can then drop all charges against " Their own "

[jayboy]

Strange, I didn't find Yoshiwara's post unintelligible in the least. I also didn't see any reason for the ad hominem attack on his use of English. What he said was quite clear.

It seems your Latin needs brushing up since you don't seem to understand apparently what is an ad hominem attack.

If the disjointed and obscure post under reference is clear to you well done.Don't bother to explain it however.

[whybother]

Who cares!!!

Seriously, are you a thai national? can you vote?

you only concerns should be how and what said politicians might or might not improve or maintain your ability to stay and/or visit Thailand, own any RE here (if you do or want to one day), and/or enjoy whatever you come to thailand for (and trust me, I know there are many many reasons people come here outside of the nightlife, both of which Thaksin and the current PM are making very difficult).

I care. I can't vote. I have an opinion. I am allowed to discuss my opinion on this forum.

My concerns are not just for myself, but also for my girl friend, her family and our friends.

I also have some influence on the government through business groups and foreign chambers of commerce ... yes, very little influence, but the groups do get to meet ministers and discuss issues, which do sometimes lead to improvements.

If you only care about yourself and your ability to stay here, and you don't have friends and family, and you don't have any opinions or influence, then it sucks to be you.

[Buchholz]

Sorry, Bucholz, like Thaksin, this isn't all about you. Is your name in any of the posts above (apart from the one post you've erroneously inserted)? No. I was replying to whybother, if that's ok by you.

It's Buchholz.

Your post was a reply to my post.

His post was a reply to your post.

It's not that difficult to follow.

I was just clarifying that my post was on the other aspect and not about LM, which you apparently thought it was about, eg. your "that's my point."

But that's ok. No big deal. Certainly no need to get snippity.

.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

DSI submits evidence to Attorney General for court decision on revoking bail

DSI submits evidence to Attorney General for court decision on revoking bail for nine UDD leaders who addressed Red Shirt rally with content insulting to monarchy.

-- TNA 2011-04-18

[yoshiwara]

My little humour clearly failed. When I said Thaksin wanted to appear presidential, I didn't intend as in presidential style. The man has no style....though seeing him as 'admirable', to 'be taken seriously' in his little foray does seem to have impressed at least one red apologist. No, what Thaksin is doing is sending a message to his troops by pushing up against the boundaries for the red supporters at the same time as seemingly rising above the fray. Presidents are presidential. The subtext is there. Dog whistle politics. Nothing to do with being diplomatic. Some forum red supporters really are naive.

Your obsessive hatred of Thaksin has, not for the first time, caused you to lose focus and the last part of your post is simply unintelligible even taking into account English seems not to be your first language.I don't recall anybody stating Thaksin personally was admirable.It was his statement under reference that was admirable for reasons that Khun Vorani discussed in his article in the other paper, freely accepting the dubious motivation and hypocrisy involved.I commented that it was a great pity Abhisit had not made such a statement since there is good reason to believe he shares Thaksin's views on this subject (even though he is not innocent of playing political games with LM).

One of the finest activities at a funfair is shooting the row of ducks. Sometimes, once they have all gone down there is a big 'Ping!' noise and then you get the prize of a big fluffy toy. The ping! noise and ducks all in a row when arguing with the red fans is when the magic words 'Your obsessive hatred of Thaksin' comes up. I'll have the pink teddy bear please.

[jayboy]

My little humour clearly failed. When I said Thaksin wanted to appear presidential, I didn't intend as in presidential style. The man has no style....though seeing him as 'admirable', to 'be taken seriously' in his little foray does seem to have impressed at least one red apologist. No, what Thaksin is doing is sending a message to his troops by pushing up against the boundaries for the red supporters at the same time as seemingly rising above the fray. Presidents are presidential. The subtext is there. Dog whistle politics. Nothing to do with being diplomatic. Some forum red supporters really are naive.

Your obsessive hatred of Thaksin has, not for the first time, caused you to lose focus and the last part of your post is simply unintelligible even taking into account English seems not to be your first language.I don't recall anybody stating Thaksin personally was admirable.It was his statement under reference that was admirable for reasons that Khun Vorani discussed in his article in the other paper, freely accepting the dubious motivation and hypocrisy involved.I commented that it was a great pity Abhisit had not made such a statement since there is good reason to believe he shares Thaksin's views on this subject (even though he is not innocent of playing political games with LM).

One of the finest activities at a funfair is shooting the row of ducks. Sometimes, once they have all gone down there is a big 'Ping!' noise and then you get the prize of a big fluffy toy. The ping! noise and ducks all in a row when arguing with the red fans is when the magic words 'Your obsessive hatred of Thaksin' comes up. I'll have the pink teddy bear please.

By all means take a fluffy toy.Your rather baffling funfair analogy doesn't however obscure the reality that most of your observations are indeed motivated by a hatred of Thaksin.Any attempt to introduce balance or context just prompts the Pavlovian dog response from you "red apologist".

[Buchholz]

Bail Revocation Sought against Red-shirt Leaders

An investigator in charge of terrorism cases forwarded evidence of speeches made by red-shirt MP Jatuporn Promphan and other red-shirt leaders to a state prosecutor to consider bail revocation against them after their comments were found to possibly refer to and defame the Monarchy.

Chief investigator for terrorism cases from the Department of Special Investigation, or DSI, Police Lieutenant-Colonel Thawal Mangkhang, presented evidence and transcriptions of recorded speeches made by red-shirt MP Jatuporn Promphan on April 10 at the Democracy Monument to state prosecutor Ruj Kuensuwan.

Jatuporn's interview on April 7 made prior the red-shirt mass rally on April 10 was also submitted to the state prosecutor.

The move came after DSI investigators found that Jatuporn's address may have violated national security-related laws on the Monarchy and possibly defamed members of the Royal Family.

Following the possible lese majeste statements made by Jatuporn, the DSI requested the state prosecutor to withdraw bail earlier granted for Jatuporn and other red-shirt leaders, namely Weerakan Musikapong, Natthawut Saikua, Weng Tojirakarn, Yoswarit Chuklom, Korkaew Pikulthong, Nisit Sintuprai, Wiputhalaeng Pattanabhumthai and Kwanchai Praipana.

The DSI reasoned that the red-shirt leaders committed a criminal act according to the Criminal Code's Articles 112 and 116.

Their offense has breached the bail conditions for their pending case on the political unrest last year.

The state prosecutor revealed that even though the Criminal Court's bail conditions do not mention the Criminal Code's Article 112, the prosecutor team is able to petition the court for bail revocation against the red-shirt leaders immediately if it finds the lese majeste offense has been committed by them.

The prosecutor expects that the consideration process will not take much time.

Meanwhille, a civic group led by Doctor Tul Sitthisomwong submitted a letter to state prosecutors to demand speedy legal action against those who committed lese majeste acts.

At the same time, DSI Director-General Tharit Pengdit commented on Jatuporn's plan to file a complaint with the agency to demand legal action against Privy Council President General Prem Tinsulanonda for defamation.

Tharit said the DSI is ready to proceed Jatuporn's petition in line with the law and regulations as well as its jurisdiction.

However, the complaint has not been submitted to the agency yet.

-- Tan Network 2011-04-18

[SomTumTiger]

In the other paper today that most intelligent and perceptive commentator, Vorani Vanijaka, covers this issue.Your criticism of Thaksin while reasonable is I think a bit wide of the mark.His statement was in fact (pause for the usual suspects to choke on their own vomit)...

Nothing but class from Jayboy - lol

[SomTumTiger]

Sorry, Bucholz, like Thaksin, this isn't all about you. Is your name in any of the posts above (apart from the one post you've erroneously inserted)? No. I was replying to whybother, if that's ok by you.

It's Buchholz.

Your post was a reply to my post.

His post was a reply to your post.

It's not that difficult to follow.

I was just clarifying that my post was on the other aspect and not about LM, which you apparently thought it was about, eg. your "that's my point."

But that's ok. No big deal. Certainly no need to get snippity.

.

Thaksin only hires the best! lol

[PaulBax]

For those of you interested but ignorant concerning Thai politics please note that Abhisit Vejjajiva said he abhorred the use of LM as a political weapon and that it should have no place in Thai politics. Depite this we have seen a the biggest rise in dubious LM charges in Thai history; from this we can percieve that Mark either has no power whatsoever or is typical of the Thai political classes when it comes to telling the truth.

It has been widely reported that all but one of the LM charges against the reds relate to body language rather that what they actually said " they clapped and applauded". (The elections may happen and the elites are running around in fear at the prospect of having to show their true colors by organizing another coup so better get the opposition locked up instead!)

Now let us get to Thaksin who was really no worse or better than any other Thai prime minister, however, what he did was to change the seat of power from Bangkok to the provinces , gave the poor a voice (sic), and this cannot be allowed to happen under any circumstances! For this he is the devil and must be destroyed at all costs.

Edited April 18, 2011 by PaulBax

[philw]

In the other paper today that most intelligent and perceptive commentator, Vorani Vanijaka, covers this issue.Your criticism of Thaksin while reasonable is I think a bit wide of the mark.His statement was in fact (pause for the usual suspects to choke on their own vomit)...

Nothing but class from Jayboy - lol

too much Chang, perchance ?

[philw]

For those of you interested but ignorant concerning Thai politics please note that Abhisit Vejjajiva said he abhorred  the use of LM as a political weapon and that it should have no place in Thai politics.<br>Despite this we have seen a the biggest rise in dubious  LM charges in Thai history from this we can percieve that Mark either has no power whatsoever or is typical of the Thai political classes when it comes to telling the truth.<br><br>It has been widely reported that all but one of the LM charges against the reds relate to body language rather that what they actually said " they clapped and applauded". (The elections may happen and the elites are running around in fear at the prospect of having to show their true colors by organizing another coup so better get the opposition locked up instead!)<br><br>Now let us get to Thaksin who was really no worse or better than any other Thai prime minister, however, what he did was to change the seat of power from Bangkok to the provinces , gave the poor a voice (sic), and this cannot be allowed to happen under any circumstances! For this he is the devil and must be destroyed at all costs.<br>

All good points !!

[SomTumTiger]

Now let us get to Thaksin who was really no worse or better than any other Thai prime minister, however, what he did was to change the seat of power from Bangkok to the provinces , gave the poor a voice (sic),

Is that really what he did?

Oh, and "Mark" has no power to control the judiciary - its called "separation of powers". Thaksin, on the other hand, bought and paid for , or coerced most of the judges. That must be one of those - giving the power a voice examples, right. Or the killing of the 2,400 in the drug crackdown - giving those poor a voice. Or the 500% increase in his net worth while IN OFFICE - giving the poor a voice. Or the scheme of the week he cooked up, that allowed he and his cronies to steal the country blind with the "one tambon, one cow, etc projects". Giving the poor a voice.

Thaksin was savy - and the first politician to realize the poor were the largest voting block in Thailand, and went out of his way to woo them. But that is where your fairy tale ends. Because all he sold them were false promises, lies, and shadows. He got rich, then got caught. Shame really.

But instead of taking his ill gotten money and leaving quietly, he decided to finance a black shirt army of terrorists, to force a government change, even though he had two puppets in power (and still left the country when he "controlled" it). Thaksin watched Bangkok burn - to give the poor a voice? Or to give his ego and thirst for power a voice.

[SomTumTiger]

In the other paper today that most intelligent and perceptive commentator, Vorani Vanijaka, covers this issue.Your criticism of Thaksin while reasonable is I think a bit wide of the mark.His statement was in fact (pause for the usual suspects to choke on their own vomit)...

Nothing but class from Jayboy - lol

too much Chang, perchance ?

Perhaps you should cut down?

[monkfish]

Why does nobody post the article from The Nation? I just do not understand!!

Here we go.

http://www.nationmul...c-30153326.html

18 red-shirt leaders to face sedition charge: DSI chief

The director-general of the Department of Special Investigation said Monday that public prosecutors will summon 18 red-shirt leaders to face sedition charge.

DSI chief Tharit Phengdit said the DSI investigators and public prosecutors agreed during a meeting on April 10 to press the sedition charge against 18 red-shirt leaders.

Tharit said he will send registered letters to the 18 red-shirt leaders, telling them to report to public prosecutors to acknowledge the charge during May 2 to 6. The letters will be mailed on Tuesday.

The Nation.

Next question what is sedition charge?

Quote from Bangkok Pundit not sure if I can link if not mods please delete and look it up yourself.

Whoever makes an appearance to the public by words, writings or any other means

which is not an act within the purpose of the Constitution

or for expressing an honest opinion or criticism in order:

1. To bring about a change in the Laws of the Country or the Government by the use of force or violence;

2.

To raise unrest and disaffection amongst the people in a manner likely to cause disturbance in the country;

or

3. To cause the people to transgress the laws of the Country, shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding seven years.

http://asiancorrespo...-with-sedition/

mmmmmmmmmmm

Edited April 18, 2011 by monkfish

[jdinasia]

Strange, I didn't find Yoshiwara's post unintelligible in the least. I also didn't see any reason for the ad hominem attack on his use of English. What he said was quite clear.

It seems your Latin needs brushing up since you don't seem to understand apparently what is an ad hominem attack.

If the disjointed and obscure post under reference is clear to you well done.Don't bother to explain it however.

Nah .. his post was clear. His English was fine. You were attacking the poster under the guise of not understanding a post that was clear, hence argumentum ad hominem

[PaulBax]

Now let us get to Thaksin who was really no worse or better than any other Thai prime minister, however, what he did was to change the seat of power from Bangkok to the provinces , gave the poor a voice (sic),

Is that really what he did?

Oh, and "Mark" has no power to control the judiciary - its called "separation of powers". Thaksin, on the other hand, bought and paid for , or coerced most of the judges. That must be one of those - giving the power a voice examples, right. Or the killing of the 2,400 in the drug crackdown - giving those poor a voice. Or the 500% increase in his net worth while IN OFFICE - giving the poor a voice. Or the scheme of the week he cooked up, that allowed he and his cronies to steal the country blind with the "one tambon, one cow, etc projects". Giving the poor a voice.

Thaksin was savy - and the first politician to realize the poor were the largest voting block in Thailand, and went out of his way to woo them. But that is where your fairy tale ends. Because all he sold them were false promises, lies, and shadows. He got rich, then got caught. Shame really.

But instead of taking his ill gotten money and leaving quietly, he decided to finance a black shirt army of terrorists, to force a government change, even though he had two puppets in power (and still left the country when he "controlled" it). Thaksin watched Bangkok burn - to give the poor a voice? Or to give his ego and thirst for power a voice.

you have no idea what you are talking about concerning the judiciary., and really very little concerning what Thaksin did or did not do as everything that Thaksin did was bad!

Let me give you one example concerning the lottery. Thaksins government put out a tender to computerize the system the system chosen was the same as used in the USA and UK , however, this government said it was unsafe and corrupt!

Really the lotteries in the US and UK are corrupt but the private lotteries run by powerful non elected officials for personal gain are not?

Edited April 18, 2011 by PaulBax

[rubl]

you have no idea what you are talking about concerning the judiciary., and really very little concerning what Thaksin did or did not do as everything that Thaksin did was bad!

Let me give you one example concerning the lottery. Thaksins government put out a tender to computerize the system the system chosen was the same as used in the USA and UK , however, this government said it was unsafe and corrupt!

Really the lotteries in the US and UK are corrupt but the private lotteries run by powerful non elected officials for personal gain are not?

When you accuse someone of not knowing what he writes about, you should give clear details why you do so. Giving a less relevant example concerning something not even mentioned doesn't cut it.

Try again or retract, IMHO

[jdinasia]

you have no idea what you are talking about concerning the judiciary., and really very little concerning what Thaksin did or did not do as everything that Thaksin did was bad!

Let me give you one example concerning the lottery. Thaksins government put out a tender to computerize the system the system chosen was the same as used in the USA and UK , however, this government said it was unsafe and corrupt!

Really the lotteries in the US and UK are corrupt but the private lotteries run by powerful non elected officials for personal gain are not?

When you accuse someone of not knowing what he writes about, you should give clear details why you do so. Giving a less relevant example concerning something not even mentioned doesn't cut it.

Try again or retract, IMHO

Hmmm Thaksin and the lottery --- there was no corruption there! *cough*

As to what is current in the lottery world? I think there has been a move forward with a bigger number pool lottery (since 2009) but I wouldn't swear to it!

[Macmundi]

When will they learn??? Why bring the highest institution into politics?? Just mind your own bees wax! And heavens sake stop screwing up our lives!

[Buchholz]

we have seen a the biggest rise in dubious LM charges in Thai history

How do you know they are dubious?

It has been widely reported that all but one of the LM charges against the reds relate to body language rather that what they actually said

Could you quote and link a couple of these "widely reported" please?

Now let us get to Thaksin who was really no worse or better than any other Thai prime minister

Court records say that's not the situation.

the devil and must be destroyed at all costs.

While he's not Satan himself, holding him responsible for his illegal actions is a good thing.

[Buchholz]

For those of you interested but ignorant

All good points !!

Feel free then to jump in and answer any of the "points" dissecting it in any of the preceding posts, if you can.

[Buchholz]

Why does nobody post the article from The Nation? I just do not understand!!

Here we go.

http://www.nationmul...c-30153326.html

18 red-shirt leaders to face sedition charge: DSI chief

It's incumbent upon forum members to post relevant news that they may encounter in the News Forum rather than relying on the impractical expectation that Admin will post each and every new news article that is published.

Thank you for doing so in this case and it would be beneficial to the whole News Forum if more members did likewise.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Buchholz

[webfact]

Red-shirt leaders to be formally indicted over lese majeste charges

By The Nation

The Department of Special Investigation (DSI) will summon 18 red-shirt leaders today to get them to officially acknowledge the lese majeste charges against them, DSI director-general Tarit Pengdith said yesterday.

The announcement came after Tarit met with senior public prosecutors to discuss his department's request to have the 18 indicted in relation to the speeches they made at the April 10 red-shirt rally near the Democracy Monument.

The DSI chief said the summonses would be mailed to the red-shirt leaders, telling them to present themselves between May 2 and 6 to be formally indicted.

The red-shirt leaders facing charges are Veerakan (formerly Veera) Musigapong; Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan; Nattawut Saikua; Weng Tojirakarn; Kokaew Pikulthong; Kwanchai Praipana; Yoswalit Chooklom; Nisit Sinthuprai; Vipoothalaeng Pattanaphumthai; Thida Thawornseth; Pheu Thai MPs Karun Hosakul and Vichien Khaokham; Chinnawat Haboonpad; Suporn Atthawong; Prasit Chaisrisa; Worawut Wichaidit; Laddawan Wongsriwong and Somchai Paiboon.

The first nine leaders also face terrorism charges in relation to last year's unrest and riots during which more than 90 people were killed and 2,000 others injured. The nine were granted bail on condition that they did not incite arrest.

Earlier yesterday, the DSI called on public prosecutors to seek a Criminal Court order to withdraw the bail of the nine red-shirt leaders because they allegedly committed lese majeste during the April 10 rally.

DSI investigator Thawan Mangkhang met senior public prosecutor Ruj Khuansuwan at the Office of the Attorney-General to submit the request along with evidence, including video recordings of the nine leaders' speeches during the rally.

Thawan said the agency had found that the nine leaders had violated their bail conditions. He added that in addition to the video recordings and transcripts of the speeches, the DSI had also submitted as evidence testimonies from some people taking part in the April 10 rally.

Ruj said the public prosecutors would study the information supplied by the DSI and would then decide whether a court order should be sought for the withdrawal of bail. "We will also consider any petition from the [red-shirt leaders] seeking justice," he added.

In a related development, Dr Tul Sithisomwong from the Network of Citizen Volunteers Protecting the Land yesterday gave Ruj a petition seeking legal action against people accused of insulting the monarchy.

Meanwhile, Pheu Thai leader Yongyuth Wichaidit yesterday read a statement at the party's headquarters, dismissing allegations made by members of the Democrat Party and the Army spokesman that the opposition party was behind the attacks against the monarchy. He described the allegations as being a politically motivated smear campaign against Pheu Thai ahead of the upcoming general elections.

-- The Nation 2011-04-19

[Buchholz]

The DSI chief said the summonses would be mailed to the red-shirt leaders, telling them to present themselves

In the 21st century era of mobile phones, email, etc., this aspect from a bygone era is in serious need of updating.

[philw]

For those of you interested but ignorant

All good points !!

Feel free then to jump in and answer any of the "points" dissecting it in any of the preceding posts, if you can.

If I can what ??

[Buchholz]

For those of you interested but ignorant

All good points !!

Feel free then to jump in and answer any of the "points" dissecting it in any of the preceding posts, if you can.

If I can what ??

answer any of the "points" dissecting it in any of the preceding posts