Hmm! Juicy Chiang Mai ;-)

[Drew Aitch]

Hi Forum

I'm just wondering if we have any health conscious folks out there that make their own juices? The reason I ask is because I'm currently trying to find some nourishing alternatives for those in-between snacks. Decades of sandwiches is starting to wear a bit thin now

I've tried the half dozen nuts and some diced cucumbers, and other such silly suggestions, but these types of dishes just don’t take the rumble out of this 'ere jungle I'm afraid!

So 5 quick questions for those in the know please:

1. Are vegetable juices really as palatable and filling as they're made out to be?

2. To experiment with various health drinks, is a blender necessary, or will a juicer suffice?

3. What would be a good brand of the above renown for quality, functionally, and reliability?

4. Where's the best place(s) to buy a juicer/blender in Chiang Mai?

5. Is blending/juicing a laborious time consuming task that's more pain than pleasure?

Thanks in advance

Aitch

[Ulysses G.]

Some combinations of fresh juice taste great. Some don't. You have to experiment, but the more carrot juice from sweet carrots, the better

Baan Suan Pac has some really good juicers, but they are not cheap. I would ask the owner for recommendations on brand names, but I know she has some really good ones.

A blender is not really recommended for juicing as it is supposed to be healthier without any pulp when you drink it with an empty stomach.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[DiamondKing]

I used to do it and as long as you get a really good Juicer with stainless steel blades and a very strong motor (I paid $180 US for the one I had) its a piece of cake you just throw in whatever skin and all and it juices the crap out of it all you have left is the pulp and skin and a massive amount of juice really really easy. Its amazing how much fruit and veggies to get through though LOL

A quick search online for juice recipes will provide some fantastic tastes and also be preapred to lose masses of weight

I cant post the link against forum rules but if you want to know the exact juicer I had drop me a PM

Good Luck

DK

[Drew Aitch]

Thanks for the reposes so far folks, it is appreciated

I'm not familiar with any of this juicing malarkey, and I know it'll be a lot more bother than just rustling up a sandwich, but if the benefits are worth the hassles, then maybe it's time to give it a try.

The reason I asked about a Blender Vs Juicer is because I read somewhere about how a juicer is not really strong enough for making juices using harder vegetables. Still, what do I know, I'm not even at a novice stage yet, and the net is always full of conflicting information.

I'll probably pop over and take a look at Baan Suan Pac then sometime next week. Both of you so far have touched on the cost of a good juicer stating that it's somewhat costly. I must say I was a little surprised to be reading anticipated prices of 5,000 Baht & up.

Oh well, like most things, if the item gets used and lasts a good while, then it's probably money well spent in the long run.

Thanks again guys

Aitch

[Sparkles]

Juicers are in every store inc Tesco, Big C, Carrefour,Home Pro, Robinsons and others.We bought a mid range for 2,000,it does the job. Google fruit juices and you will find a zillion mixes. We prefer a mix of celery,carrot,apple and cucumber which we buy at our local market.Buying at the likes of Rimping can be expensive.Experiment, only restricted by your own imagination.Good for you ??? well can't be bad can it ??

[Ulysses G.]

I'll probably pop over and take a look at Baan Suan Pac then sometime next week. Both of you so far have touched on the cost of a good juicer stating that it's somewhat costly. I must say I was a little surprised to be reading anticipated prices of 5,000 Baht & up.

There are plenty of centrifugal juicers for around that price, but the more expensive juicers extract the juice more slowly and do not kill the enzymes and - supposedly - are more beneficial for ones health. If I was going to buy one, I would go for one of the better ones.

Here is something about two famous authorities on this stuff:

http://www.discountjuicers.com/juicingforhealth.html

The last time that I studied this stuff, these were the best kind of juicers other than a Norwalk juicer which is VERY expensive. I think that Ban Suan Pac has som eof them available.

Twin Gear Juicers

-

These juicers have two gears that basically shreds then presses the juice out of the produce. The screws turn at a low rpm.

Click here for more information on this style juicer.

Green Power KPE-1304 Juicer (White)$559.99$439.00$110.99Green Power KPE-1304 Juicer (Black)$559.99$439.00$110.99Green Power KPE-1304HG (White)$599.99$469.00$100.99Green Power KPE-1304HG (Black)$599.99$469.00$100.99Green Star Juicer GS-1000$499.00



$60.00Green Star Juicer GS-2000$519.00$459.00$60.00Green Star Juicer GS-3000$549.00$479.00$90.00Green Star Total Package$629.00





$130.00Green Power Gold Juicer$589.00$499.00$90.00Green Power Complete Package$630.98$529.00$101.98Green Star Elite GSE-5000$629.00$529.00$100.00

$439.00

$499.00

- Our pick for the "best" machine in the category. It is our recommendation to you of the best buy for your dollar.

[Flatouthruthefog]

<br />Juicers are in every store inc Tesco, Big C, Carrefour,Home Pro, Robinsons and others.We bought a mid range for 2,000,it does the job. Google fruit juices and you will find a zillion mixes. We prefer a mix of celery,carrot,apple and cucumber which we buy at our local market.Buying at the likes of Rimping can be expensive.Experiment, only restricted by your own imagination.Good for you ??? well can't be bad can it ??<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I admire you creative lot, I really do.

But just tell me, please: whenever you think you can beat V8 SPICEY in cans, just tell me and I'll PAY to try it.

And anyone out there who likes a Bloody Mary with breakfast (best known hangover cure in the world of course!), just add your favourite vodka to the spicey V8, stir well, glug it back and throw away all the recipes.

Well, maybe add a touch of black pepper (from a mill) to taste!

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The better juicers also extract more juice from the pulp so over time it's a cost savings by reducing the amount of produce needed.

The cheaper juicers have to be stopped a lot more for cleaning and tend to burn out a lot sooner. Fine for a first timer who wants to see if its something they want to do. Can always upgrade to a better one later.

I used to be a big juice proponent and still do low sugar vegetable juices but what I know about fructose in high sugar produce like carrots, apples, beets etc then I use them very sparingly and dilute heavily with celery, cucumber and leafy greens.

High fructose from fruits and vegetables that rapidly absorbs like from juice can induce highly damaging insulin resistance.

[Sparkles]

Obviously the more you pay the better the product.

True not much point spending a lot when he might tire of the process and his expensive machine sits in the cupboard unused.We have used our cheaper model practically every day for a year without it missing a beat.For the 2 of us we have never had to clean mid run and it takes 5 minutes to clean on completion. We don't refrigerate as it dosn't, in my opinion, keep well for more than a couple of hours.The key is to buy your produce fresh, and at a reasonable price, which thankfully here in CM markets is not a problem

[Ulysses G.]

We don't refrigerate as it dosn't, in my opinion, keep well for more than a couple of hours

That is one reason the Twin gear juicers are supposed to be better. The juice retains all its enzymes and nutrition for 24 to 48 hours instead of having to drink it immediately with the centrifugal juicers. However, I agree that the cheaper juicers are a better bet if you re not sure that you are going to keep juicing long term.

I LOVE fresh carrot juice, but am too lazy to do it myself, so buy it and drink it immediately in one of the shops around town.

[femi fan]

I recently bought my first juicer at Siam tv on the southern moat. It was a philips model and cost just over 4000 baht.

So far my favourite is carrots, apples, melon, and ginger.

I also got about 700mls from one kilo of tomatoes which i mixed a lime and some lea and perrins with.

It's good fun making your juices. My model is pretty easy to clean. It even came with some recipes! It suggested mixing the pulp with flour and honey and then using it as a face mask. Not done that yet...!

Blenders will be good for things like bananas and papayas, but any hard stuff will need a juicer.

I think to use a juicer regularly it will be useful to condition your brain to enjoying the fact you're making soemthing that is healthy for your body. Then the making of the juices will never come with a sort of lazy-to-do-it feeling.

If you want to do vegetables mainly, just adding one or two apples will make the taste much more palatable. I've not done it yet, but i guess creating vegetable juices could be a great main ingredient for cooking some soups.

Go for it. You can still have your sandwiches! One final idea is to eat some almonds or other nuts, mixed with raisons, as a healthy snack to go with the juice you made from your very own hands and labour...

[femi fan]

I used to be a big juice proponent and still do low sugar vegetable juices but what I know about fructose in high sugar produce like carrots, apples, beets etc then I use them very sparingly and dilute heavily with celery, cucumber and leafy greens.

High fructose from fruits and vegetables that rapidly absorbs like from juice can induce highly damaging insulin resistance.

Could you let us know more about 'what you know'?!

For example, are you talking about carrots having a high glycaemic index value? Because i have also read that less than 10% of the carrot has sugar that will require insulin response, and that you'd have to eat a whole heap of them to cause any big problem. But i'm not sure i've remembered all that correctly. Are you talking about sugar spikes in the blood?

And, do you mix the likes of celery to balance out the carbs with high GI?

"rapidly absorbs the like", what does this mean?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

watch some video's. Tons of information of how fructose affects insulin and energy storage

Fructose - insulin

[Ulysses G.]

I mix cabbage and parsley juice with the beet and carrot to bring the fruit sugar content down and add nutrients.

Personally, I can not stand mixing fruit juice and vegetable juice, but that does not mean someone else will not like it.

[femi fan]

watch some video's. Tons of information of how fructose affects insulin and energy storage

Fructose - insulin

I was hoping to get your ideas on it. As usual there is conflicting 'information' on this topic as there is on most things to do with health. Intuitively and instinctively it is hard to accept that juice one has made from fruits by oneself is in any way harmful to the body. From what i've read i just wonder if there is a blurring of the lines between natural fructose in fruits and the fructose that is in corn syrup.

Two of my most trusted sources of nutrition do not indicate any dangers from juicing. However, at times both these sources are in contradiction of each other, so one can never be sure of anything unless personally verified and experienced. It's why i like listening to the personal stories of other citizens.

So, any take on it?!

[Ulysses G.]

it is hard to accept that juice one has made from fruits by oneself is in any way harmful to the body.

I wonder about this too, but adding green juice should negate any negative effects and make the juice even more healthy.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

watch some video's. Tons of information of how fructose affects insulin and energy storage

Fructose - insulin

I was hoping to get your ideas on it. As usual there is conflicting 'information' on this topic as there is on most things to do with health. Intuitively and instinctively it is hard to accept that juice one has made from fruits by oneself is in any way harmful to the body. From what i've read i just wonder if there is a blurring of the lines between natural fructose in fruits and the fructose that is in corn syrup.

Two of my most trusted sources of nutrition do not indicate any dangers from juicing. However, at times both these sources are in contradiction of each other, so one can never be sure of anything unless personally verified and experienced. It's why i like listening to the personal stories of other citizens.

So, any take on it?!

the sugars in fruits and vegetables are the same sugars as concentrated sweeteners. Produce is healthier because in the whole fruit or vegetable it comes with minerals, vitamin, enzymes and fibers while the sweeteners have fewer vitamins and minerals and no fiber and enzymes.

Juicing is not whole food however because it removes most of the fiber which binds significant amounts of minerals and it's removal speeds absorption.

Over time consumers have preferred sweeter fruits and vegetables and producers have bred higher sugar varieties to grow and sell.

It's basically just become a sugar arms race. People like sugar. Farmers produce it and juicing concentrates it.

I think juice is great but in the right amounts. I would just pursue the lower sugar varieties to drink because of the rapid delivery.

Keep in mind when blood sugar is measured they measure glucose. When people consume fructose it raises the fructose levels in the blood while glucose levels would remain low. For a long time the medical establishment didn't consider blood fructose levels to be important but now they are becoming more concerned about fructose levels.

[Drew Aitch]

Hi Forum.

By Crikey there's a lot more to juicing than first meets the eye. I mean, who would have thought that making a heart healthy drink could become so overwhelming?

Thanks for all the replies though folks, it's certainly been an interesting read that's for sure. Even so, one can’t help but wonder what the correct information is and which is misinformation? For example:

In my ignorance, I thought a blender was stronger and more capable than a juicer, so there's a valuable lesson to begin with. I've also learned that blenders do not separate the juice from the fibre like a juicer would, and therefore includes all skin, seeds, pith, and flesh into the concocted end product. The name 'blender' makes logical sense now! Still, including the entire contents of a piece of fruit or vegetable, sounds somewhat healthier than just extracting the juice alone, but…

A blender is not really recommended for juicing as it is supposed to be healthier without any pulp when you drink it with an empty stomach.

But many of the juices sold in supermarkets almost boast about how this juice or that includes the pulp. It's right there on the front label as if to proudly point out the extra health benefit at no extra cost. Or maybe the pulp concern is only an issue when drinking on an empty stomach?

Twin gear juicers are supposed to be better. The juice retains all its enzymes and nutrition for 24 to 48 hours instead of having to drink it immediately with the centrifugal juicers. However, I agree that the cheaper juicers are a better bet if you re not sure that you are going to keep juicing long term.

Does that mean that if you prepare a drink in a cheap juicer or blender in the morning and consume it later that evening, then a lot of the goodness has gone out of it? And if so, where's the goodness in the cartoned juice drinks, many of which have been sitting in warehouses for months before reaching the supermarket shelves?

I usually squeeze 1 lime into 1.5 litre bottle of water a day. It makes water less bland, and the lime is supposed to be good for health too. But is the goodness of my lime drink lost perhaps, unless I down the whole bottle within a couple of hours?

Interesting stuff, but like most topics there are often conflicts of information, differences of opinion and so on. What this means though is that making informed decisions is far from easy

Cheers

Aitch

Edited April 22, 2011 by Drew Aitch

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

A good blender is a great tool to have. Unfortunately good ones can be nearly as expensive as a quality juicer. On the plus side the clean up is a lot less with a blender.

When produce is blended it reduces the mechanical digestion of a food and increases the surface area to allow better absorption. Juicing and blending are really helpful for people who can't chew etc.

Ideally chewing foods well is best because salivary enzymes secreted in the mouth like amaylase assist in the digestion and assimilation of the food.

Some health practitioners recommend "chewing" ones juice. I guess that is like playing the air guitar.

About the cheap versus expensive juicer question. The more expensive ones extract more juice and do it with less heat so to preserve the heat sensitive nutrients. A cheap juicer will produce heat during extraction and the juice will not keep well.

Even juice extracted with a low heat juicer needs to be handled well. Some people will use a little vacuum pump to suck the air out of the storage container to prevent oxidation.

The lime juice in water is a wise way to go. High vitamin C and minerals along with low sugar and cost.

A lot of people like the blended salad or smoothie concept. Breaking the produce down to small particles is like chewing it well and increases absorption without removing the whole food balance.

When blending or using a food processor it's not necessary to use the entire produce. It can be skinned, pitted etc to get more of a desired component and less of another. Really depends on the produce.

Obviously juicing a whole mango would be less than bright because the skin is bitter and the pit is going to destroy the blender and taste like hell.

note on oral cavity enzymes

Complex food substances that are taken by animals and humans must be broken down into simple, soluble and diffusible substances before they can be absorbed. In the oral cavity, salivary glands secrete an array of enzymes and substances that aid in digestion and also disinfection. They include the following:[1]

Potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3): The major role of bicarbonate is to neutralize acidity mainly in an attempt to preserve the dentin and tooth enamel and also to neutralize bacterial toxins. Bicarbonate also prevents acid damage to the esophageal lining before food enters the stomach.

lingual lipase: Lipid digestion initiates in the mouth. Lingual lipase starts the digestion of the lipids/fats.

amylase: Carbohydrate digestion also initiates in the mouth. Amylase produced by the salivary glands breaks complex carbohydrates to smaller chains, or even simple sugars. It is sometimes referred to as ptyalin.

Mucin: Mucin functions to make food more pliable and also covers it facilitating its transfer in the esophagus to the stomach, by lubricating the content.

lysozyme: Considering that food contains more than just the essential nutrients and bacteria or viruses, the lysozome offers a limited and non-specific, yet beneficial anti-septic function in digestion.

IgA: This is a dimeric form of antibodies produced by the body. Gastrointestinal tract only produces IgA mainly to battle bacterial toxins, and also to tag certain recognizable molecular patterns in viruses and bacteria. IgA coated pathogens are digested by white cells lining the gastrointestinal tract.

Haptocorrin: Haptocorrin is also known as R-factor. Haptocorrin has a vital function in absorption of the vitamin B12 (Vit. B12). This factor binds Vit. B12 therefore protecting it from the harsh and acidic condition of the stomach. Once R-factor-Vit. B12 exits the stomach, pancreatic proteases cleave the R-factor, at which point intrinsic factor (IF) produced by the parietal cells bind Vit. B12, and the IF-Vit. B12 complex is taken up by the ileum.

Digestive enzymes

[orang37]

A good blender is a great tool to have ... snip ...

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun CobraSnakeNeckTie,

Great post with lots of solid research behind it: thanks !

Before our throat had its own little Chernobyl, we used to really enjoy Sum Tam (mai phrik). We've been wondering what this would be like blended; your post has encouraged us to try this out. Was always convinced (religious belief ?) that sum tam was extremely healthful (raw papaya, for one thing ?), and increased our tolerance to heat (subjective belief ?). Plus, we just really loved the taste of it.

Been trying to remember the name of that other "piquant" Thai salad made with grapefruit (som-oh), but can't.

Every time we juice our carrots, we look at all the pith that's left over, and yearn there was some way we could just bypass our now permanently constricted throat's passageway and get it straight into our belly ! However, cooked oatmeal does work well for giving us fiber, and interestingly (subjective reaction ?) seems to have a kind of soothing, tranqulizing effect eaten at night cold, or hot.

best, ~o:37;

Edited April 22, 2011 by orang37

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Orang

Yeah a lot of foods can be blended.

Take the Papaya salad. Start with the more liquid ingredients like tomato, oil, soy sauce, lime juice, cucumbers etc. Cut into small pieces and liquify.

Then grate, slice etc the less liquid ingredients like papaya, carrot and add slowly to the liquid in the blender. Add the least liquid ingredients like peanuts last. If added wisely it can all be a nice creamy liquid and makes a nice salad dressing or just taken as a drink.

best of both worlds with the taste and easy digestion but without the waste of throwing away pulp and losing balancing fiber.

[Ulysses G.]

A blender is not really recommended for juicing as it is supposed to be healthier without any pulp when you drink it with an empty stomach.

But many of the juices sold in supermarkets almost boast about how this juice or that includes the pulp. It's right there on the front label as if to proudly point out the extra health benefit at no extra cost. Or maybe the pulp concern is only an issue when drinking on an empty stomach?

Twin gear juicers are supposed to be better. The juice retains all its enzymes and nutrition for 24 to 48 hours instead of having to drink it immediately with the centrifugal juicers. However, I agree that the cheaper juicers are a better bet if you re not sure that you are going to keep juicing long term.

Does that mean that if you prepare a drink in a cheap juicer or blender in the morning and consume it later that evening, then a lot of the goodness has gone out of it? And if so, where's the goodness in the cartoned juice drinks, many of which have been sitting in warehouses for months before reaching the supermarket shelves?

I usually squeeze 1 lime into 1.5 litre bottle of water a day. It makes water less bland, and the lime is supposed to be good for health too. But is the goodness of my lime drink lost perhaps, unless I down the whole bottle within a couple of hours?

You are right about conflicting information. I have read about about raw food and jucing for several decades and just do what seems most sensible to according to new health information that changes constantly.

When I first started reading about fresh juices, they claimed that a centrifical juicer would destroy the live enzymes almost immediately, so you had to drink it right away. The slower juicers (I.E. expensive) did not kill the enzymes, so you could store the juice for a day of two. Clinics that claim to cure serious diseases like the Hypocrates or Gerson Clinics - will not use a centrifical juicer or allow a patient to use one at home.

The point about not using a blender is that - supposedly - the fresh juice and its nutrients will go straight into your body with no need to digest it - which supposedly uses up many of the nutrients that you would use otherwise. If it has pulp, it must be digested.

As far as your trick with the lime/lemom. As long as you do not use a centrifical juicer to juice it - which flings the juice through the air and kills all the enzymes very quickly - you should be OK.

The main thing you have to decide is whether enzymes really have health benifits or not as most MDs say no. If you don't care about enzymes, bottled juices have many of the vitamins although they have usually been heat processed.

Edited April 22, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[femi fan]

Interesting stuff, but like most topics there are often conflicts of information, differences of opinion and so on. What this means though is that making informed decisions is far from easy

And i find this both frustrating and somewhat mysterious! For a topic as basic as food and drink for our very health, one would have hoped for more agreement from the scientific and health communities. With the giant strides we make in science, it seems we really should have a better handle on food and drink, instead of reams of conflicting information.

Of course, big business interferes with the process, and no doubt deliberately muddies the waters.

And much of what is discussed by way of trying to eat and drink towards healthier lives has only become more recently relevant with the advent of poorer soils, polluted waterways, and supposedly healthy produce - fruits and vegs - being exposed to so many chemicals while growing. We shouldn't need to be making such machines, taking supplements, finding the best methods to wash off chemicals from our produce, wondering how to obtain unharmful drinking water.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

There are tricks for preserving enzymes while juicing also.

Enzyme activity begins to degrade about 105 F and most are killed(denatured) by about 117 F. Any juicer is going to raise the juice temp. Centrifugal juicers raise the temperature a lot more.

A trick is to really chill your produce before juicing. If you start with 90 F produce then it doesn't take much to get it over 100 F

Start at 55 F produce and and even a Centrifugal juicer will not heat it to even 70 F.

The ideal solution is chill fruit and use a low heat juicer like a twin gear which emulates chewing or masticating.

If you can chew something well then obviously chewing is the cheapest and most effective way to extract fresh juice. There is no law that says a person has to swallow the pulp.

The old fashioned method to juice is to chew and spit.

[Somnambulist]

I personally think of it this way:

juicing = fasting

blending = eating

When juicing, I use the same single auger juicer which Khun Nong sells at Baan Suan Pak. Slow revolving juicers supposedly don't kill enzymes. And single auger juicers are much easier to clean than the twin gear designs, which is a major fctor in how often I use it. In fasting one stops eating and within a few days the body is freed from digesting and can put all its resources into elimination of toxins, stagnant liver bile, etc. Adding pulp free juice to this regimen simply allows me to continue to get some nutrition (energy) while fasting. If there was pulp in the juice, my body would have to stop eliminating toxins and use its resources to digest the pulp.

Mind you, I don't really know if the enzyme theory is true or not. Jack Lalanne flogged his namesake highspeed centrifugal juicer for years and he lived be be a very vigorous 96!

I use my blender, on the other hand, when I feel I want to ingest things that are otherwise a hassle to prepare. When I'm NOT fasting, which is most of the time. For example, moringa, coconut oil, cacao, gogi berries, flaxseeds, stevia - toss all that into a blender with bananas and perhaps some kind of superfood powder if you're into that and a bit of raw green veggie (an easy to digest kind such as morning glory) and I've given myself one super healthy, alkaline treat for the day. Or, if I'm simple going for taste, just banana, coconut oil and cacao powder (and a bit of stevia if the bananas aren't particularly good). Google green smoothie and have at it.

[Somnambulist]

I used to feel bad about wasting so much pulp but now I compost it.

[kcore]

Good info here. Juiceplus.com

[femi fan]

Good to read about the blending ideas. Does anyone know how much one should pay for a reasonable blender here in chiang mai? I'd go and find out myself, but am off to england first thing in the morning for a holiday. So i'm wondering if perhaps i ought to buy a blender over there. Depends on cost differential, so if anyone can give me an idea, thanks.

And i thought i was doing my health a boost by getting a juicer. Guess i am, but i feel i need a blender too.

Nice thread.

[Sparkles]

Buy it when you get back, you get a warranty. Long way to return if you buy o/s and have a problem. You can easily buy a decent blender for 1,500b up. Thats what I paid 8 years ago ,still doing the job.Great for bananas that are getting too ripe,add some yoghurt, drink it or put it on your muesli/cereal.Yes every home needs a blender and a juicer.Blenders also great for cocktails and will blend ice very easily

[Sparkles]

Buy it when you get back, you get a warranty. Long way to return if you buy o/s and have a problem. You can easily buy a decent blender for 1,500b up. Thats what I paid 8 years ago ,still doing the job.Great for bananas that are getting too ripe,add some yoghurt, drink it or put it on your muesli/cereal.Yes every home needs a blender and a juicer.Blenders also great for cocktails and will blend ice very easily

obviously when you blend over ripe fruit,especially bananas , papaya etc add soy or light milk