Mystery Illness Strikes Again Near Night Bazaar

[HTWoodson]

The BBC Radio programme had a professor from a London hospital see little likelihood of bacterial food poisoning, more likely a toxin being ingested - based on reported cause of death only.

It was reported that similar types of (initially unexplained) deaths had been found amongst third-world agricultural workers handling pesticides/fertilisers (although many of these cases are not reported/fully investigated).

The Telegraph article about Sarah Carter's death said, "A post-mortem examination showed Miss Carter died in hospital from myocarditis, or acute inflammation of the heart, after she had contracted echovirus, a highly infectious disease."

[TPE]

Another news article here.

It says that Sarah Carter had contracted Echovirus.

INteresting

Viral structure and infection

An echovirus measures 24-30 nanometres (nm), and is similar to other viruses, since it has a naked protein capsid, which makes up 75% of the virus particle that encloses a dense central core of single-stranded RNA. This RNA has a length of approximately 7.5 kilobase (kb), contains an RNA replicase, viral-coded proteins, and a single polyprotein that is responsible for the formation of structural proteins and other proteins necessary for cellular replication. The structural proteins determine host range and play a very important role in delivering the RNA genome into the cytoplasm of new host cells.^[3]

Some viral replication of an echovirus occurs in the nasopharynx after infection and then spreads to regional lymph nodes. However, most viral particles are swallowed and they reach the lower gut tract, where the virus is presumed to bind to specific receptors. The virus then spreads to the lower intestinal tract, replicating but not causing any major cellular effects along the way. Next, the virus spreads to many secondary sites in the body such as the central nervous system, liver, spleen, bone marrow, heart and finally the lungs. Additional replication of the virus will occur, causing symptoms 4 to 6 days after infection. The most deadly part however is delayed when symptoms of a central nervous system disease start to appear. Enteroviruses are capable of infecting any cell in the body. These viruses are highly infectious. They can spread through the air to other hosts 13 weeks after infection and can spread through feces to other hosts eight weeks after infection.

So if this is the case.

The people concerned may have been infected elsewhere before they arrived in Chiang Mai.

Going on the 3 to 4 days incubation period.

And all stayed at the TRENDY Downtown Inn !!

NZ police etc trying to get more info, but all very silent from thai authorities -

Usual LOS attitude of say little and wait for bad publicity to go away !

Apparently they are sending tissue samples to US/Japan for analysis -

of course whether they are samples from the deceased who knows : )

Cynical ... MMmm YES, but after many years as a former Thai Private investigator, thats with good reason !

Interested in any further info on this - appreciate an updates from you CM locals.

choke dee

< email address removed >

Edited May 2, 2011 by metisdead
Not to post email addresses in posts due to potential spam problems.

[TPE]

Latest idea is perhaps the Air conditioners ... aka Legionaires disease ??

Not surprisingly however, Thai authourities saying very little to the likes of NZ Police/realtives of the deceased.

I daresay the Downtown inn will shortly undergo a name change !

Appreciate any update/local news on the matter -

choke dee

< email address removed >

Edited May 2, 2011 by metisdead
Not to post email addresses in posts due to potential spam problems.

[Lizard2010]

Latest idea is perhaps the Air conditioners ... aka Legionaires disease ??

Not surprisingly however, Thai authourities saying very little to the likes of NZ Police/realtives of the deceased.

I daresay the Downtown inn will shortly undergo a name change !

Appreciate any update/local news on the matter -

choke dee

< email address removed >

If you had read my previous post.

The rooms have refrigeration A/C

Not eveporative syatem, different system.

I have never seen this type of A/C in Downtown Inn Hotel after many visits, so no Legionaires disease.

We are all waiting for test results.

Might never hear about the results.

Next Question. :jap:

[Contractor]

The BBC Radio programme had a professor from a London hospital see little likelihood of bacterial food poisoning, more likely a toxin being ingested - based on reported cause of death only.

It was reported that similar types of (initially unexplained) deaths had been found amongst third-world agricultural workers handling pesticides/fertilisers (although many of these cases are not reported/fully investigated).

The Telegraph article about Sarah Carter's death said, "A post-mortem examination showed Miss Carter died in hospital from myocarditis, or acute inflammation of the heart, after she had contracted echovirus, a highly infectious disease."

Just a thought re the above and post #29.

If these deaths are down to a highly infectious virus (which considering its incubation period was contracted from a place where tourists visit maybe outside of Chiang Mai) why are there not more cases reported and in parts other than Chiang Mai?

Rgds

Edited May 2, 2011 by Contractor

[MikeCNX]

Wow, I made a really heavy post here, and deleted it....... oh well............. wait till I am out of... and then I might post something useful.

Then I should be on variable Ip (MORE) then I am now.

LONG LIVE THOR http://www.thor.com/

[HTWoodson]

Just a thought re the above and post #29.

If these deaths are down to a highly infectious virus (which considering its incubation period was contracted from a place where tourists visit maybe outside of Chiang Mai) why are there not more cases reported and in parts other than Chiang Mai?

Rgds

Maybe there is a difference between infectious with contagious?

Anything is possible, but I suspect the simplest answer is probably the correct one... likely a food vendor near Downtown Inn is operating under unsanitary conditions and selling contaminated food. Could it be poisonous Chinese laundry soap, a Thai serial killer, or HIV infected needles in the seats at the movie theater? Sure, why not, but for now at least I'll skip snacking in Anusarn Market. And sleeping at Downtown Inn.

Edited May 3, 2011 by HTWoodson

[Contractor]

Just a thought re the above and post #29.

If these deaths are down to a highly infectious virus (which considering its incubation period was contracted from a place where tourists visit maybe outside of Chiang Mai) why are there not more cases reported and in parts other than Chiang Mai?

Rgds

Maybe there is a difference between infectious with contagious?

Anything is possible, but I suspect the simplest answer is probably the correct one... likely a food vendor near Downtown Inn is operating under unsanitary conditions and selling contaminated food. Could it be poisonous Chinese laundry soap, a Thai serial killer, or HIV infected needles in the seats at the movie theater? Sure, why not, but for now at least I'll skip snacking in Anusarn Market. And sleeping at Downtown Inn.

Yes there is a difference between "infectious" and "contagious". So what.

My point was simply expressing difficulty in believing that all the affected people had been infected outside of Chiang Mai and then had all coincidentally travelled to this city. Silly comments aside, you appear to agree that the source of the infection is most likely in or around the hotel, and this is where my investigations would focus too.

My thoughts are with the families of the deceased and that they get treated with proper respect by the Thai authorities.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Contractor

[cmsally]

Surely one of the easiest leads to follow, would be to ask the surviving NZ girls where they ate the previous day and test the restaurants and their suppliers. But maybe that is too obvious! However of course as time goes on it becomes more irrelevant.

[Contractor]

Surely one of the easiest leads to follow, would be to ask the surviving NZ girls where they ate the previous day and test the restaurants and their suppliers. But maybe that is too obvious! However of course as time goes on it becomes more irrelevant.

From the website set up by the parents of Sarah Carter:

Sarah Carter (23), Amanda Eliason (23) & Emma Langlands (23) story as told by Amanda and Emma.

We arrived in Bangkok on 25 January 2011 and spent our first three nights on Koh Samet. We then flew to Koh Samui for two nights, travelled by ferry and bus to Krabi for three nights, and flew from Phuket to Chiang Mai on 2 February.

We arrived in Chiang Mai around 5pm and took a taxi straight to the Downtown Inn. Our impression of the room was that it was clean and comfortable. Before we headed out for an evening at the Night Bazaar, we had a look at the pool, and all tested the water temperature with our feet.

At the Night Bazaar, we ate at an indoor food court. Amanda ate a chicken pita kebab, and Emma and Sarah ate red pork curry. Both Amanda and Sarah drank a passionfruit shake. Later at the hotel, we drank the bottled drinking water provided for us.

We woke up early on 3 February, and within half an hour of each other, we all fell ill. We called a doctor to our room mid-morning. We began to feel better in the afternoon and ate a little food provided by the hotel. By evening our symptoms had deteriorated, and we were admitted to hospital around midnight.

The manager of the hotel was very attentive when he found out that we were ill, and he later visited us in hospital. During the day we spent in the hotel room, we were aware that people were concerned about a guest in the room next to ours, and were attempting to enter that room. On one of his visits to hospital, the manager told us that the person had passed away.

[getgoin]

Surely one of the easiest leads to follow, would be to ask the surviving NZ girls where they ate the previous day and test the restaurants and their suppliers. But maybe that is too obvious! However of course as time goes on it becomes more irrelevant.

It is a very sad series of events and my condolences go out to all of the families involved.

It is a basic misconception, however, that anytime someone gets sick that it somehow has to be from the last place they ate at. The New Zealand girls were already sick before they ate anything at The Downtown Inn. No one knows whether the British couple dined at The Downtown Inn or ate in The Night Bazaar. Did the British couple use the pool? The Canadian man was thought to have used the pool. No one mentioned where it was that he ate. The other 2 deaths that occurred around Chiang Mai a month or so apart, did they eat at The Night Bazaar? Did they stop at The Downtown Inn and dip their toes in the pool?

I fail to see the connection with eating/ate something at The Night Bazaar? I do see a connection with 4 people who stayed at The Downtown Inn and possibly a connection with the Canadian man who might have used the pool.

There are experts out there who could probably shed some light on the connection or possible connection of these deaths. I see a lot of unanswered questions, a lot of rumor, gossip, finger pointing and a web site that looks to be more of a way of vengeance than a light through the whole mess. Andrew Drummond? Not helping.

[Chicog]

Ex-mayor owns the hotel. Anything apportioning blame to the hotel will be a big loss of face. So he and the local authorities will do their best to point the finger elsewhere, even if there is no where to point it.

What's so hard to understand here?

They've lost my business permanently on principle, even if it turns out the problem has already been solved on the quiet. Bastards.

[Lizard2010]

Ex-mayor owns the hotel. Anything apportioning blame to the hotel will be a big loss of face. So he and the local authorities will do their best to point the finger elsewhere, even if there is no where to point it.

What's so hard to understand here?

They've lost my business permanently on principle, even if it turns out the problem has already been solved on the quiet. Bastards.

I was there when the first person died at the Hotel.

We were not even aware of this till we where home for a few weeks.

So all this had been hushed up.

What else will be hushed up.

The comment about Andrew Drummond? Not helping. is not fair, all he is doing is keeping people informed.

Look at Tripadvisor they are constantly removing anything that is said about the Downtown Inn Hotel.

If you were a parent of friend would you want people to be advised.

As i have stated i will not use the Downtown Inn Hotel again.

I know most of the staff there having stayed there many times.

They have my sympathy as they are not allowed to say anything, or they would loose there jobs.

We may never know what happened. :jap:

[elektrified]

Ex-mayor owns the hotel. Anything apportioning blame to the hotel will be a big loss of face. So he and the local authorities will do their best to point the finger elsewhere, even if there is no where to point it.

What's so hard to understand here?

They've lost my business permanently on principle, even if it turns out the problem has already been solved on the quiet. Bastards.

I thought the ex-Mayor was a "she" and from what I've read, someone much higher up than a Mayor owns the hotel.

[Lizard2010]

Ex-mayor owns the hotel. Anything apportioning blame to the hotel will be a big loss of face. So he and the local authorities will do their best to point the finger elsewhere, even if there is no where to point it.

What's so hard to understand here?

They've lost my business permanently on principle, even if it turns out the problem has already been solved on the quiet. Bastards.

I thought the ex-Mayor was a "she" and from what I've read, someone much higher up than a Mayor owns the hotel.

The last mayor was a female, but he must have been a previous one sometime to the last one.

I actually met her on her election trail campaign when she was trying to be the Mayor again, but missed out to the new younger Mayor. :jap:

[BarnicaleBob]

Ex-mayor owns the hotel. Anything apportioning blame to the hotel will be a big loss of face. So he and the local authorities will do their best to point the finger elsewhere, even if there is no where to point it.

What's so hard to understand here?

They've lost my business permanently on principle, even if it turns out the problem has already been solved on the quiet. Bastards.

I thought the ex-Mayor was a "she" and from what I've read, someone much higher up than a Mayor owns the hotel.

The last mayor was a female, but he must have been a previous one sometime to the last one.

I actually met her on her election trail campaign when she was trying to be the Mayor again, but missed out to the new younger Mayor. :jap:

Just so you know, the current mayor is the nephew of the former mayor who is the current owner of the Downtown Inn.

[Dellboy218]

Latest idea is perhaps the Air conditioners ... aka Legionaires disease ??

Not surprisingly however, Thai authourities saying very little to the likes of NZ Police/realtives of the deceased.

I daresay the Downtown inn will shortly undergo a name change !

Appreciate any update/local news on the matter -

choke dee

< email address removed >

If you had read my previous post.

The rooms have refrigeration A/C

Not eveporative syatem, different system.

I have never seen this type of A/C in Downtown Inn Hotel after many visits, so no Legionaires disease.

We are all waiting for test results.

Might never hear about the results.

Next Question. :jap:

Now that does raise a point I have considered in the past. Not far from me the Tambon is in the habit of spraying the road from a pipe about 5m up. Obviously the pressure is nowhere near enough to provide a fully evaporating mist so one does get a little damp but my question would be, where is that water coming from? After all, everyone nearby is breathing it in. They have been doing that for the past few years. Dont suppose there is anymore like that in town? I believe in other countries where fogging systems are employed in public places the water treatment is very strict.

[Lizard2010]

Ex-mayor owns the hotel. Anything apportioning blame to the hotel will be a big loss of face. So he and the local authorities will do their best to point the finger elsewhere, even if there is no where to point it.

What's so hard to understand here?

They've lost my business permanently on principle, even if it turns out the problem has already been solved on the quiet. Bastards.

I thought the ex-Mayor was a "she" and from what I've read, someone much higher up than a Mayor owns the hotel.

The last mayor was a female, but he must have been a previous one sometime to the last one.

I actually met her on her election trail campaign when she was trying to be the Mayor again, but missed out to the new younger Mayor. :jap:

Just so you know, the current mayor is the nephew of the former mayor who is the current owner of the Downtown Inn.

Mmmm the plot thickens.

Not what you know but Who you know.

[Lizard2010]

Latest idea is perhaps the Air conditioners ... aka Legionaires disease ??

Not surprisingly however, Thai authourities saying very little to the likes of NZ Police/realtives of the deceased.

I daresay the Downtown inn will shortly undergo a name change !

Appreciate any update/local news on the matter -

choke dee

< email address removed >

If you had read my previous post.

The rooms have refrigeration A/C

Not eveporative syatem, different system.

I have never seen this type of A/C in Downtown Inn Hotel after many visits, so no Legionaires disease.

We are all waiting for test results.

Might never hear about the results.

Next Question. :jap:

Now that does raise a point I have considered in the past. Not far from me the Tambon is in the habit of spraying the road from a pipe about 5m up. Obviously the pressure is nowhere near enough to provide a fully evaporating mist so one does get a little damp but my question would be, where is that water coming from? After all, everyone nearby is breathing it in. They have been doing that for the past few years. Dont suppose there is anymore like that in town? I believe in other countries where fogging systems are employed in public places the water treatment is very strict.

Not sure about this one.

The Hotel is not on a major road, it is at the end of the Road from the Night Bazaar which has not so much traffic as the other end of the road where the Girly Bars are.

I have seen then do that in the Warrarot market Area.

[Lizard2010]

Found this in Thailand Travel Tragedies.Com

Case of the Mysterious Deaths in Chiang Mai

Victims Name:

Various Nationality:

Various Tragedy:

fatality Was cause of death/illness known?:

Yes Name of hotel/restaurant/tourist attraction:

Downtown Inn City/Village:

Chiang Mai Region:

Northern Thailand Description of tragedy:

Case of the Mysterious Death in Chiangmai

There were 7 deaths of foreign nationals in Chiangmai from January to March 2011. Four victims stayed at Downtown Inn and three stayed elsewhere. The victims were:

1. Soraya Pandola, died 11-Jan-11

2. Bill Mah, 59 years, stayed in People Place Hotel but used the facilities of Downtown Inn. Died on 26-Jan-11.

3. Waraporn Pungmahisiranon, a Thai female tourist guide, 47 years. Died on 3-Feb-11.

4. Sarah Carter from Auckland. Died 6-Feb-11.

5. George Everitt, 78 years. Died on 18-Feb-11.

6. and Eileen Everitt,74 years. Both from England. Died same day, on 18-Feb-11.

7. James Thomas William from USA, stayed at Wild Comic Guesthouse Chiangmai. Died on 15-Feb-11.

8. Also an unconfirmed report of a French woman who died in Chiangmai during Jan-Mar 2011.

The Police Department is currently investigating the cases.

Dr Pasakorn Ackarasavi, Director of the Bureau of Epidemiology, Department of Disease Control, Ministry of Public Heath, stated that 4 of the deaths occurred in Downtown Inn but all the cases are under investigation. The Department has requested co-operation from the World Heath Organisation to send an international expert to help with the inquiry. A case review meeting is set for next week. (Ref. News:

http://www.manager.c...D=9540000031926)

As for the death of the couple from England and the Thai guide, Dr Pasakorn stated that the post mortem will be conducted in detail focusing in their heart muscles. From the initial clinical forensic, it was found that their hearts were in abnormal conditions with slight artery disease, but this is not sufficient to conclude heart failure. So there will be further investigation as to whether or not there was inflammation of then heart muscle. As for Ms Carter's death, initially E coli bacteria and the Coxsackie B virus was found in her body. The Department has liaised with the New Zealand Embassy to investigate further into her death. Coxsackie B is a digestive system disease and it can be contagious from human to human. In the past, Thailand has experienced Coxsackie B but it is very rare.

Dr Pasakorn stated that the Provincial Public Health Department has made an inspection of the hotel and the surrounding area. The Department of Disease Control information shows that Coxsackie B is an enterovirus in the digestive system and it can spread to cause heart failure eventually.

An hypothesis of the death can be, in my view, from the consumption of particular seafood such as the horseshoe crab or king crab. (Ref: The public health office in Samut Prakan has issued a warning stating that the public should be aware that some species of horseshoe crab could give you food poisoning and be fatal for your health. Read more:

http://www.paknam.co...l#ixzz1HWIqzOux )

The eggs of the horseshoe crab/King crab become toxic during the month of February to June Ref: Faculty of Medical Science, Chiangmai University:

http://www.med.cmu.a...Mangdataley.htm)

The Department of Pharmacy, Mahidol University (Ref: http://www.pharmacy....einfo.php?id=42)

has issued a page online on Tetrodotoxin from eating Puffer Fish particularly during the months of October to March as the fish become toxic during breeding season.

From the newspaper, it was reported that some of the victims ate seafood from food stalls in the market areas. The Ministry of Public Health has issued a public warning about eating seafood as 20,000 patients had suffered from food poisoning. (Ref: http://www.manager.c...D=9540000035544)

The clarification of these cases can only be, in my view, from the evidence of the toxicology report from the Institute of Forensic Medicine, Police General Hospital, Royal Thai Police. This should be available at some point in the future.

The circumstances do not seem suspicious in the sense of a criminal cause for death such as murder or manslaughter, but possibly from a failure in food hygiene or lack of awareness in regard to the MPH warnings. The public are vague about the wrong times to eat these fish. In Japan over a hundred people have died from this wrong time of eating the fish.

User comments (1)

Ruby said: 07 May 2011 Ciguatera is a possibility for some of these cases. It is the most common fish-related poisoning in the world but widely underdiagnosed. Unfortunately, there is no biomarker to prove when someone has it, only symptoms and elimination of other things; there is no cure. Also there is nothing to be done to prevent it, other than avoid fishing in areas known to have it. It can't be cooked out, smelled, tasted, etc. and trace amounts can cause effects ranging from a few days to life long illness to death. I got that or something similar in Thailand 2 1/2 years ago and am still ill (story posted on this site). I wish I could confirm what it is for sure and find a cure but this is the best that a team of doctors in the U.S. have been able to determine from my various continued pains and health problems. No idea whether these cases were caused by entirely different things but I was also at a hospital in Chiang Mai- though I first felt ill in Bangkok. This is all very sad and of course while bad things happen everywhere, and no one may be to blame, it would be great if we can figure out what may be causing these illnesses and deaths in Thailand to prevent future problems and perhaps find a treatment for those of us still ill.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Lizard2010

[Semper]

Found this in Thailand Travel Tragedies.Com

Case of the Mysterious Deaths in Chiang Mai

Victims Name:

Various Nationality:

Various Tragedy:

fatality Was cause of death/illness known?:

Yes Name of hotel/restaurant/tourist attraction:

Downtown Inn City/Village:

Chiang Mai Region:

Northern Thailand Description of tragedy:

Case of the Mysterious Death in Chiangmai

There were 7 deaths of foreign nationals in Chiangmai from January to March 2011. Four victims stayed at Downtown Inn and three stayed elsewhere. The victims were:

1. Soraya Pandola, died 11-Jan-11

2. Bill Mah, 59 years, stayed in People Place Hotel but used the facilities of Downtown Inn. Died on 26-Jan-11.

3. Waraporn Pungmahisiranon, a Thai female tourist guide, 47 years. Died on 3-Feb-11.

4. Sarah Carter from Auckland. Died 6-Feb-11.

5. George Everitt, 78 years. Died on 18-Feb-11.

6. and Eileen Everitt,74 years. Both from England. Died same day, on 18-Feb-11.

7. James Thomas William from USA, stayed at Wild Comic Guesthouse Chiangmai. Died on 15-Feb-11.

8. Also an unconfirmed report of a French woman who died in Chiangmai during Jan-Mar 2011.

The Police Department is currently investigating the cases.

Dr Pasakorn Ackarasavi, Director of the Bureau of Epidemiology, Department of Disease Control, Ministry of Public Heath, stated that 4 of the deaths occurred in Downtown Inn but all the cases are under investigation. The Department has requested co-operation from the World Heath Organisation to send an international expert to help with the inquiry. A case review meeting is set for next week. (Ref. News:

http://www.manager.c...D=9540000031926)

As for the death of the couple from England and the Thai guide, Dr Pasakorn stated that the post mortem will be conducted in detail focusing in their heart muscles. From the initial clinical forensic, it was found that their hearts were in abnormal conditions with slight artery disease, but this is not sufficient to conclude heart failure. So there will be further investigation as to whether or not there was inflammation of then heart muscle. As for Ms Carter's death, initially E coli bacteria and the Coxsackie B virus was found in her body. The Department has liaised with the New Zealand Embassy to investigate further into her death. Coxsackie B is a digestive system disease and it can be contagious from human to human. In the past, Thailand has experienced Coxsackie B but it is very rare.

Dr Pasakorn stated that the Provincial Public Health Department has made an inspection of the hotel and the surrounding area. The Department of Disease Control information shows that Coxsackie B is an enterovirus in the digestive system and it can spread to cause heart failure eventually.

An hypothesis of the death can be, in my view, from the consumption of particular seafood such as the horseshoe crab or king crab. (Ref: The public health office in Samut Prakan has issued a warning stating that the public should be aware that some species of horseshoe crab could give you food poisoning and be fatal for your health. Read more:

http://www.paknam.co...l#ixzz1HWIqzOux )

The eggs of the horseshoe crab/King crab become toxic during the month of February to June Ref: Faculty of Medical Science, Chiangmai University:

http://www.med.cmu.a...Mangdataley.htm)

The Department of Pharmacy, Mahidol University (Ref: http://www.pharmacy....einfo.php?id=42)

has issued a page online on Tetrodotoxin from eating Puffer Fish particularly during the months of October to March as the fish become toxic during breeding season.

From the newspaper, it was reported that some of the victims ate seafood from food stalls in the market areas. The Ministry of Public Health has issued a public warning about eating seafood as 20,000 patients had suffered from food poisoning. (Ref: http://www.manager.c...D=9540000035544)

The clarification of these cases can only be, in my view, from the evidence of the toxicology report from the Institute of Forensic Medicine, Police General Hospital, Royal Thai Police. This should be available at some point in the future.

The circumstances do not seem suspicious in the sense of a criminal cause for death such as murder or manslaughter, but possibly from a failure in food hygiene or lack of awareness in regard to the MPH warnings. The public are vague about the wrong times to eat these fish. In Japan over a hundred people have died from this wrong time of eating the fish.

User comments (1)

Ruby said: 07 May 2011 Ciguatera is a possibility for some of these cases. It is the most common fish-related poisoning in the world but widely underdiagnosed. Unfortunately, there is no biomarker to prove when someone has it, only symptoms and elimination of other things; there is no cure. Also there is nothing to be done to prevent it, other than avoid fishing in areas known to have it. It can't be cooked out, smelled, tasted, etc. and trace amounts can cause effects ranging from a few days to life long illness to death. I got that or something similar in Thailand 2 1/2 years ago and am still ill (story posted on this site). I wish I could confirm what it is for sure and find a cure but this is the best that a team of doctors in the U.S. have been able to determine from my various continued pains and health problems. No idea whether these cases were caused by entirely different things but I was also at a hospital in Chiang Mai- though I first felt ill in Bangkok. This is all very sad and of course while bad things happen everywhere, and no one may be to blame, it would be great if we can figure out what may be causing these illnesses and deaths in Thailand to prevent future problems and perhaps find a treatment for those of us still ill.

And your point is?

[getgoin]

A lot of hurt people trying to connect the dots. Wake up guys. The father with the web site continues to show that at all levels we can be idiots. Sorry for your loss.

[realthaideal]

People are still puttering around with breadcrumbs and silly leads here, sadly. Real facts are too few and far between.

I hardly believed that everyone was dying from eating seaweed ! I mean how many people are eating seaweed in Chiang Mai, and staying in the same hotel ? And then documentation of the food exploits continue very very ambiguously saying 'Foodstall' when they might very well mean 'foodcart' or restaurant. Can't anyone of these victims point to any pictures they took while dining out ? Most people these days on holiday will take pix of where they eat, while they eat, and of what they eat. They als keep saying 'in the Night Bazaar area' which is all too vague. Can't someone have the surviving friends point to maps and narrow this down to Anusarn, the NB proper, or even Kad Luang ?! it shouldn't be that hard to decipher, and fromt here locals could help make positive id's.

And so now there are more reports that it could be an endotoxin from Pufferfish ?! We all know that they have a toxin that could get you. But now how many places are serving pufferfish in town ?! Horshoe Crab is waaay more likely to be consumed in CM, but let's ask how many vacationing Farang from US, NZ, Canada, Eng, etc., go out and crave a good plate of horseshoe crab for dinner ? Like 0.01% is high odds. This is grasping at straws and silly distractions. We need better info on where they ate- which would be all too easy to provide, and what they ate.

Sorry for those that passed away, and those that lost friends and loved ones. This is out of control and starting to malinger when, had I the time n means to go interview myself, I could get some real answers in an hour or less probably.

I hope the father of the deceased with the website reads this and understands we are all concerned and can help him get better answers if he puts a little information at our fingertips here. So far it seems like so much running in circles and grasping at flighty straws.

[BarnicaleBob]

Again I say, it was not food that caused the deaths but a toxin. None of the seven victims showed all the signs of food poisoning but they all showed exact signs of being poisoned by a airborne toxin. The answer to what toxin and how seven people could have been exposed to it may be exposed tomorrow. If all goes well I will post more information Sunday night.

[Semper]

Again I say, it was not food that caused the deaths but a toxin. None of the seven victims showed all the signs of food poisoning but they all showed exact signs of being poisoned by a airborne toxin. The answer to what toxin and how seven people could have been exposed to it may be exposed tomorrow. If all goes well I will post more information Sunday night.

Are you suggesting that this hotel poisoned some of their guests? If so, why?

[realthaideal]

Keep going Barnacle Bob ! I'm all for it. My post was not only to go in the face of silly or shoddy theories, but that there are so many right questions and better theories that are not being followed up on. Some of this has to do with access to the people that survive and some private sleuthing that I guess needs being done on one's (your own) as well. I commend you for it. For the safety of all local citizens and travelers, we could use some real answers before coincidence strikes again ! I do recommend getting cryptic, always sticking to a nom de plume and staying on the d-l - or if you have to/wanna be very out in public if you do break real news, as not-so-funny things can happen to (Falang) whistleblowers 'round these parts.

[elektrified]

Keep going Barnacle Bob ! I'm all for it. My post was not only to go in the face of silly or shoddy theories, but that there are so many right questions and better theories that are not being followed up on. Some of this has to do with access to the people that survive and some private sleuthing that I guess needs being done on one's (your own) as well. I commend you for it. For the safety of all local citizens and travelers, we could use some real answers before coincidence strikes again ! I do recommend getting cryptic, always sticking to a nom de plume and staying on the d-l - or if you have to/wanna be very out in public if you do break real news, as not-so-funny things can happen to (Falang) whistleblowers 'round these parts.

Excellent advice.

[msg362]

Check for toothpaste being sold in a convenience store in the immediate area that would only be frequented by tourists.

...after eating and using restrooms at the Night Market in Chiang Mai, Thailand, on 30 Mar 2011...

Using the restrooms to brush their teeth?

...found dead after using the hotel's facilities 26 Jan 2011...

Including the restroom to brush his teeth.

...They returned to the hotel from the hospital, where the woman again collapsed and began vomiting in the elevator...

Because she brushed her teeth while in her room.

...An elderly couple from England died simultaneously of a heart attack inside their Downtown Inn hotel room on 28 Feb 2011...

Using the same tube of toothpaste to brush their teeth.

...A 23 year old woman from New Zealand, died in hospital 3 Mar 2011 after she and 2 friends became ill in the same hotel...

Again, sharing toothpaste.

...That same day, a 47 year old tourist guide was found dead in a room located next door to the New Zealander...

Used the same convenience store... to buy toothpaste.

A 33 year old American woman also died after experiencing similar symptoms as Carter.
However, she was not staying at the Downtown Inn and lab results for the cause of death have not been received.

Don't need to be staying in the same hotel to use the convenience store located near the hotel.

If anything's going to kill you in Chiang Mai it's going to be the crazy drivers, and surely not the food.

Toothpaste fits better than food poisoning. Maybe mouthwash or floss. But probably toothpaste.

I think it was the shampoo, much more likely!

You could be onto something there with the Shampoo.

They probably recycle the used ones and maybe they put the wrong stuff in them when refilling.

Or was it the water out of the tap instead of using bottle water!

Ugh, I was trying to make a joke,!.clearly not a good one

[Donnyboy]

Keep going Barnacle Bob ! I'm all for it. My post was not only to go in the face of silly or shoddy theories, but that there are so many right questions and better theories that are not being followed up on. Some of this has to do with access to the people that survive and some private sleuthing that I guess needs being done on one's (your own) as well. I commend you for it. For the safety of all local citizens and travelers, we could use some real answers before coincidence strikes again ! I do recommend getting cryptic, always sticking to a nom de plume and staying on the d-l - or if you have to/wanna be very out in public if you do break real news, as not-so-funny things can happen to (Falang) whistleblowers 'round these parts.

Excellent advice.

The TV3 programme in NZ ''60 Minutes'' just aired an article about the deaths in CM, and involving Sarah Carter. The tv crew took some swabs from the room where Sarah stayed and had them analysed back in NZ, the results came back positive for Chlorpyrifos or pyrifos, an Insecticide, the swabs had been done after the hotel did a major clean up effort to clean any traces of what ever killed the guests staying there, but the trace samples still showed up.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Donnyboy

[elektrified]

Keep going Barnacle Bob ! I'm all for it. My post was not only to go in the face of silly or shoddy theories, but that there are so many right questions and better theories that are not being followed up on. Some of this has to do with access to the people that survive and some private sleuthing that I guess needs being done on one's (your own) as well. I commend you for it. For the safety of all local citizens and travelers, we could use some real answers before coincidence strikes again ! I do recommend getting cryptic, always sticking to a nom de plume and staying on the d-l - or if you have to/wanna be very out in public if you do break real news, as not-so-funny things can happen to (Falang) whistleblowers 'round these parts.

Excellent advice.

The TV3 programme in NZ ''60 Minutes'' just aired an article about the deaths in CM, and involving Sarah Carter. The tv crew took some swabs from the room where Sarah stayed and had them analysed back in NZ, the results came back positive for Chlorpyrifos or pyrifos, an Insecticide, the swabs had been done after the hotel did a major clean up effort to clean any traces of what ever killed the guests staying there, but the trace samples still showed up.

That is not exactly correct. I read the article. The insecticide was sprayed before the guests who died even arrived, in order to kill the bedbugs. People died in some of the rooms which had been sprayed. Not all rooms had been sprayed. They believe that they mixed the wrong chemicals and sprayed too much of them; apparently. Chiang Mai Police had already suspected insecticide poisoning and had raided the offices of the pest control company before the theory was set forth by New Zealand and Italian scientists. Scientists believe that is what killed the two tourists on Koh Phi Phi as well.

It appears that the case has been solved.

Tonight this story will be on the American News Show "60 Minutes". Anyone know if this can be downloaded or viewed on the Internet?

Edited May 8, 2011 by elektrified