Where Is The Will To Tackle Serious Issues?: Thai Opinion

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

Where is the will to tackle serious issues?

By The Nation

Politicians are content to continue their petty but destructive battles at the expense of the country's stability and the people's long-term prosperity

Amid coup fears and hopelessness in many quarters that even a general election is not going to help solve the country's seemingly intractable political deadlock, Thai society has given little attention to what could be the real answer to its problems. Members of the Anand Panyarachun committee, tasked with finding a way out of the political crisis for the country, did not look too optimistic when they met senior editors last Thursday. "We are not afraid of opposition to our proposals," one of them said. "We are afraid our proposals won't get enough attention."

That was a nail-on-the-head summary of Thailand's attempts to find an elusive national reform programme that could put to rest our political woes. The same committee member remarked with apparent dismay that the panel's latest push for public attention was overwhelmed by social uproar over some bare breasts on Silom Road during the Songkran festival. That, however, should be the least of his concerns. Wild teenagers do not run amok everyday, unlike the country's political rivals.

What has hampered efforts to end the political crisis is the fact that real issues are easily overshadowed by power plays, which has led to lip service being paid to the idea of serious reform.

Both sides in the national divide are calling for changes or measures, but neither has expressed a sincere willingness to look at good proposals when they are proposed. This has put the likes of the Anand committee in the awkward middle. When good proposals come up, one side will regard them as being made by government-assigned "reformers", who therefore are not to be trusted, while the other camp drags its feet in order to hold onto the status quo.

The National Reform Committee, headed by Anand, has done its research and its proposals give emphasis to a no-nonsense land reform scheme and real decentralisation measures. They are issues that deeply concern current social and political structures and ones that we can't expect to fast-forward. But they are issues that deserve immediate attention all the same.

The panel wants to see genuine decentralisation, stating that all the key "provincial" posts need to have more decision-making powers. The current system requires virtually everything - projects, initiatives, rural development plans, etc - to be referred back to the central government in Bangkok. Is it possible, for example, for a southern province to welcome much-needed investment from quake-ravaged Japan without all the fuss that would accompany pushing the project through Bangkok?

Earlier, the committee put forward a good land reform proposal that is intended to raise the living standards of Thais in the agriculture sector. Believing that the issue of agricultural land ownership is one of the root causes of social, political and economic trouble, the panel has mooted progressive tax measures to address the issue of land rights and ownership disparity.

With the election coming up, the committee's ideas again will take a back seat. Political rivals will be amplifying the other side's "problems", not the causes of them or any possible solutions. And this trend will likely continue long after a new government comes to power. Grassroots woes have become an issue for these political power plays, not something that needs to be tackled through a concerted national effort. There is no will to do so.

For years, we have been hearing political enemies talk about the need to "teach villagers how to fish" instead of giving them free handouts of fish. Fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra has said it, so have Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, the red shirts and the yellow shirts. That makes us wonder why nothing substantial has happened to the rural Thai people in that regard. The country's grassroots have been "taught" just about everything - how the government should spend the national budget, the "values" of democracy and the "injustice" that has befallen them - except real, practical ways to be able to depend on themselves.

Can the country break through the real cause of this deadlock, which is the tendency to politicise every issue. None of the really important issues are ever tackled with a real purpose and an open mind - and this is the very reason why our plight is seemingly set to last endlessly.

-- The Nation 2011-04-26

[TimeBandit2]

As long as ideas are assigned merit based on their source rather than their content, Thais will never implement effective policies.

This problem is especially evident in Thai corporations, where the boss' ideas are always right and middle management is a game of yes-manship, territoriality and sabatoge.

[dumball]

Mods , please note no ' Reply' to click on , using ' Fast reply as provided '

The problem that I have noticed for a VERY long time is that the Thai powers that be , remind me of a dog chasing its own tail , putting on a show but achieving or getting absolutely no where in a big hurry , all talk with the accompanying exhaling of hot air .

[webfact]

Mods , please note no ' Reply' to click on , using ' Fast reply as provided '

The problem that I have noticed for a VERY long time is that the Thai powers that be , remind me of a dog chasing its own tail , putting on a show but achieving or getting absolutely no where in a big hurry , all talk with the accompanying exhaling of hot air .

such a question should be addressed in the support forum.

If you refer to an OP then please note that reply is not possible.

/Admin

[Schooner]

As messy as it looks, this is the process of change and the fact that both sides are pulling out the stops to use all the tools at their disposal to convince voters to come to their side is democracy in action.

I look at the the history of Thailand. They have been challanged by many forces and have always prevailed. They are the only country in this neck of the woods who are making it happen and these issues would not even be comming up if they were not successful.

There is so much at stake that a certain amount of brinkmanship is bound to happen.

[TimeBandit2]

Brinkmanship is not an unintentional side effect of politics here; it's the primary instrument. There is no rational policy debate, it's all pathos and political hostage taking.

With no discernible difference in the strategy or "ideas" of either major political camps, what are voters to be convinced of?

[Ricardo]

With no discernible difference in the strategy or "ideas" of either major political camps, what are voters to be convinced of?

They might like to try judging the parties by what they actually achieved last time, as well as their promises, for the future ?

For example TRT introduced the 30-Baht Hospital-scheme, but the Dems made it free, and so on.

They might also try to judge, by just how credible the politicians' promises are, how likely they are to be delivered-upon ?

For example, is it really possible to make all Thais rich within 6 months, or to build a high-speed rail-system by 2015 ?

I know it's asking a lot, but I have confidence that many Thais can think for themselves more, if only they make the effort to try. But I'm not holding-my-breath about exactly when this might be achieved.

[mrparanoid]

I look at the the history of Thailand. They have been challanged by many forces and have always prevailed. They are the only country in this neck of the woods who are making it happen and these issues would not even be comming up if they were not successful.

Ehh.. Maybe you should skim through those history books of yours again and have a liiiiitle closer look this time.

Thailand is actually the only country "in this neck of the woods" that have never put up a real fight against anyone the last 100 years in a real war and the times they have really been challenged, they have basically given up before the fight started.

In 1893 they were quickly defeated by the French. After little resitance, they submitted fully to the French conditions and agreed to cede Laos to France. The French kept up the pressure, and Siam later had to concede French control of territory on the west bank of the Mekong opposite Luang Prabang and around Champasak in southern Laos, as well as western Cambodia. France also occupied the western part of Chantaburi. In 1904, in order to get back Chantaburi Siam had to give Trat to French Indochina.

On March 23, 1906 Trat became part of Thailand again in exchange for areas east of the Mekong river like Battambang, Siam Nakhon and Sisophon. Every single time they were threatened, they either traded or just gave up land to the French so they would not have to go to war and most likely end up being colonised.

During world war 2 after the French were defeated by the Germans, The Thais saw their chance to steal back the land they had ceded to France in 1906 from the poorly equipped Japanese ally, the Vichy France. The isolated colonial administration was cut off from outside help and outside supplies. And after the Japanese invasion of Indochina in September 1940, the French were forced to allow Japan to set up military bases. This seemingly subservient behavior convinced the Phibun regime that Vichy France would not seriously resist a confrontation with Thailand. After early successes, the Thai forces were forced back by French reinforcements. At sea, the French navy, in the form of one cruiser,wiped out nearly one third of the Thai navy off the island of Kho Chang on Jan.17. Then Japan intervened and arranged a cease-fire on Jan. 28. Per a written agreement signed on March 11, France gave portions of Laos and Cambodia to Thailand.

When Japan invaded Thailand in December 1941, the Thais gave up after a few hours - and almost before their weapons had hit the ground they had signed an armistice with Japan effectively ended Englands hopes of forging an alliance with Thailand. Within hours Japan were carrying out air raids against Malaya and Singapore. On January 25, 1942, the Thai government declared war on the United States and the United Kingdom thus becoming part of the Axis powers.

In 1947 Thailand agreed to hand back the French territory occupied during world war 2 as the price for admission to the United Nations, the dropping of all wartime claims against Siam and a substantial package of American aid.

During the Vietnam war they basically bent over backwards for the Americans... The easy choice. Something their neighbours suffered heavily for as America used the country as a base for their endless bombing raids on Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam, nearly annihilating these countries.

The atrocities against the Vietnamese and Cambodian refugees during the 1980s are well documented and though there were a lot of border skirmishes where the Thais sided with the Khmer Rouge against the Vietnamese occupying Cambodia, I wouldn't really call it "war".

In 1984, a series of minor shooting incidents occurred between Thai and Laotian forces. In December 1987, Thai armed forces moved into occupy the disputed village of Ban Romklao, raising the Thai flag over it.(Kind of like they did at the Preah Vihear temple in 1954. This dispute with Laosis also over French maps from 1907) The Pathet Lao attacked the Thais, who promptly retreated and the Thai flag was replaced with a PDR Laos flag. After weeks of intense fighting, the Thais withdrew and there was eventually a cease-fire. There was about 1.000 casualties on both sides but the Thais suffered heavy losses compared to Laos. (Who were supported by Vietnamese troops.)

Then you have the border clashes with Myanmar (2001) and Cambodia in (2008,2009,2010,2011) but I wouldn't really call these "war" either.

So contrary to what you claim... In the last hundred years or so, the Thais have indeed been challenged.. But only by a few forces.. And they have NEVER prevailed during these 100 years. They are certainly not the only country in this neck of the woods "making it happen". In fact, all they have done militarily in this period is make a BIG mess of everything they take part in.

Have you REALLY looked at the history of Thailand as you say? If you have, I would like to see that book of fairy tales... It presents a completely different picture to that of the history books I have read.

(edited for spelling errors - I'm sure there are more..)

Edited April 26, 2011 by mrparanoid

[selftaopath]

I look at the the history of Thailand. They have been challanged by many forces and have always prevailed. They are the only country in this neck of the woods who are making it happen and these issues would not even be comming up if they were not successful.

Ehh.. Maybe you should skim through those history books of yours again and have a liiiiitle closer look this time.

Thailand is actually the only country "in this neck of the woods" that have never put up a real fight against anyone the last 100 years in a real war and the times they have really been challenged, they have basically given up before the fight started.

In 1893 they were quickly defeated by the French. After little resitance, they submitted fully to the French conditions and agreed to cede Laos to France. The French kept up the pressure, and Siam later had to concede French control of territory on the west bank of the Mekong opposite Luang Prabang and around Champasak in southern Laos, as well as western Cambodia. France also occupied the western part of Chantaburi. In 1904, in order to get back Chantaburi Siam had to give Trat to French Indochina.

On March 23, 1906 Trat became part of Thailand again in exchange for areas east of the Mekong river like Battambang, Siam Nakhon and Sisophon. Every single time they were threatened, they either traded or just gave up land to the French so they would not have to go to war and most likely end up being colonised.

During world war 2 after the French were defeated by the Germans, The Thais saw their chance to steal back the land they had ceded to France in 1906 from the poorly equipped Japanese ally, the Vichy France. The isolated colonial administration was cut off from outside help and outside supplies. And after the Japanese invasion of Indochina in September 1940, the French were forced to allow Japan to set up military bases. This seemingly subservient behavior convinced the Phibun regime that Vichy France would not seriously resist a confrontation with Thailand. After early successes, the Thai forces were forced back by French reinforcements. At sea, the French navy, in the form of one cruiser,wiped out nearly one third of the Thai navy off the island of Kho Chang on Jan.17. Then Japan intervened and arranged a cease-fire on Jan. 28. Per a written agreement signed on March 11, France gave portions of Laos and Cambodia to Thailand.

When Japan invaded Thailand in December 1941, the Thais gave up after a few hours - and almost before their weapons had hit the ground they had signed an armistice with Japan effectively ended Englands hopes of forging an alliance with Thailand. Within hours Japan were carrying out air raids against Malaya and Singapore. On January 25, 1942, the Thai government declared war on the United States and the United Kingdom thus becoming part of the Axis powers.

In 1947 Thailand agreed to hand back the French territory occupied during world war 2 as the price for admission to the United Nations, the dropping of all wartime claims against Siam and a substantial package of American aid.

During the Vietnam war they basically bent over backwards for the Americans... The easy choice. Something their neighbours suffered heavily for as America used the country as a base for their endless bombing raids on Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam, nearly annihilating these countries.

The atrocities against the Vietnamese and Cambodian refugees during the 1980s are well documented and though there were a lot of border skirmishes where the Thais sided with the Khmer Rouge against the Vietnamese occupying Cambodia, I wouldn't really call it "war".

In 1984, a series of minor shooting incidents occurred between Thai and Laotian forces. In December 1987, Thai armed forces moved into occupy the disputed village of Ban Romklao, raising the Thai flag over it.(Kind of like they did at the Preah Vihear temple in 1954. This dispute with Laosis also over French maps from 1907) The Pathet Lao attacked the Thais, who promptly retreated and the Thai flag was replaced with a PDR Laos flag. After weeks of intense fighting, the Thais withdrew and there was eventually a cease-fire. There was about 1.000 casualties on both sides but the Thais suffered heavy losses compared to Laos. (Who were supported by Vietnamese troops.)

Then you have the border clashes with Myanmar (2001) and Cambodia in (2008,2009,2010,2011) but I wouldn't really call these "war" either.

So contrary to what you claim... In the last hundred years or so, the Thais have indeed been challenged.. But only by a few forces.. And they have NEVER prevailed during these 100 years. They are certainly not the only country in this neck of the woods "making it happen". In fact, all they have done militarily in this period is make a BIG mess of everything they take part in.

Have you REALLY looked at the history of Thailand as you say? If you have, I would like to see that book of fairy tales... It presents a completely different picture to that of the history books I have read.

(edited for spelling errors - I'm sure there are more..)

Thank you for your post. I wonder if most people with power/money/interest in Thailand understand these historical events. What is the underlying "will" of the Thai power mongers? LOL perhaps the slogan "Safety First." LOL???

[phetaroi]

The will to tackle important problems is overshadowed by the national mantra -- mai pben rai.

So, mai pben rai.

[CosmicSurfer]

I look at the the history of Thailand. They have been challanged by many forces and have always prevailed. They are the only country in this neck of the woods who are making it happen and these issues would not even be comming up if they were not successful.

Ehh.. Maybe you should skim through those history books of yours again and have a liiiiitle closer look this time.

Thailand is actually the only country "in this neck of the woods" that have never put up a real fight against anyone the last 100 years in a real war and the times they have really been challenged, they have basically given up before the fight started.

In 1893 they were quickly defeated by the French. After little resitance, they submitted fully to the French conditions and agreed to cede Laos to France. The French kept up the pressure, and Siam later had to concede French control of territory on the west bank of the Mekong opposite Luang Prabang and around Champasak in southern Laos, as well as western Cambodia. France also occupied the western part of Chantaburi. In 1904, in order to get back Chantaburi Siam had to give Trat to French Indochina.

On March 23, 1906 Trat became part of Thailand again in exchange for areas east of the Mekong river like Battambang, Siam Nakhon and Sisophon. Every single time they were threatened, they either traded or just gave up land to the French so they would not have to go to war and most likely end up being colonised.

During world war 2 after the French were defeated by the Germans, The Thais saw their chance to steal back the land they had ceded to France in 1906 from the poorly equipped Japanese ally, the Vichy France. The isolated colonial administration was cut off from outside help and outside supplies. And after the Japanese invasion of Indochina in September 1940, the French were forced to allow Japan to set up military bases. This seemingly subservient behavior convinced the Phibun regime that Vichy France would not seriously resist a confrontation with Thailand. After early successes, the Thai forces were forced back by French reinforcements. At sea, the French navy, in the form of one cruiser,wiped out nearly one third of the Thai navy off the island of Kho Chang on Jan.17. Then Japan intervened and arranged a cease-fire on Jan. 28. Per a written agreement signed on March 11, France gave portions of Laos and Cambodia to Thailand.

When Japan invaded Thailand in December 1941, the Thais gave up after a few hours - and almost before their weapons had hit the ground they had signed an armistice with Japan effectively ended Englands hopes of forging an alliance with Thailand. Within hours Japan were carrying out air raids against Malaya and Singapore. On January 25, 1942, the Thai government declared war on the United States and the United Kingdom thus becoming part of the Axis powers.

In 1947 Thailand agreed to hand back the French territory occupied during world war 2 as the price for admission to the United Nations, the dropping of all wartime claims against Siam and a substantial package of American aid.

During the Vietnam war they basically bent over backwards for the Americans... The easy choice. Something their neighbours suffered heavily for as America used the country as a base for their endless bombing raids on Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam, nearly annihilating these countries.

The atrocities against the Vietnamese and Cambodian refugees during the 1980s are well documented and though there were a lot of border skirmishes where the Thais sided with the Khmer Rouge against the Vietnamese occupying Cambodia, I wouldn't really call it "war".

In 1984, a series of minor shooting incidents occurred between Thai and Laotian forces. In December 1987, Thai armed forces moved into occupy the disputed village of Ban Romklao, raising the Thai flag over it.(Kind of like they did at the Preah Vihear temple in 1954. This dispute with Laosis also over French maps from 1907) The Pathet Lao attacked the Thais, who promptly retreated and the Thai flag was replaced with a PDR Laos flag. After weeks of intense fighting, the Thais withdrew and there was eventually a cease-fire. There was about 1.000 casualties on both sides but the Thais suffered heavy losses compared to Laos. (Who were supported by Vietnamese troops.)

Then you have the border clashes with Myanmar (2001) and Cambodia in (2008,2009,2010,2011) but I wouldn't really call these "war" either.

So contrary to what you claim... In the last hundred years or so, the Thais have indeed been challenged.. But only by a few forces.. And they have NEVER prevailed during these 100 years. They are certainly not the only country in this neck of the woods "making it happen". In fact, all they have done militarily in this period is make a BIG mess of everything they take part in.

Have you REALLY looked at the history of Thailand as you say? If you have, I would like to see that book of fairy tales... It presents a completely different picture to that of the history books I have read.

(edited for spelling errors - I'm sure there are more..)

Telling it Like it "Is", "Was" and "Will Be"...

So it was written... so it shall be done!

CS

[Crushdepth]

Thai politicians are amongst the worst in the world. Introduce the death penalty for corruption and political crimes - especially electoral fraud.

[Schooner]

Thanks for the well written history lesson Cosmic. Your right, I haven't studied Thai history in detail. I'm more a big picture spare me the details guy.

All I need to know is Thailand is currently the only economic powerhouse in this area. Most countries would kill for 6% growth (actually several are killing for 1% but that's a different topic)and zero unemployment. Which neighbor would you say is exceeding that performance? Burma, Lao, Cambodia, Viet Nam?

True Thailand didn't resist Japanese occupation, but you have to consider what happened to those countries who did. Maybe it was the right choice at the time. Fight to the death is a noble thing I suppose but...Maybe they read the "art of war" maybe they were certain that Thailand is not just dirt but Thai people who as we probably know will never be anything else.

If you have ever been in a position of power and had to make decisions that effect millions you would know.

Bottom line; There still here, being Thai and moving forward.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Thanks for the well written history lesson Cosmic. Your right, I haven't studied Thai history in detail. I'm more a big picture spare me the details guy.

All I need to know is Thailand is currently the only economic powerhouse in this area. Most countries would kill for 6% growth (actually several are killing for 1% but that's a different topic)and zero unemployment. Which neighbor would you say is exceeding that performance? Burma, Lao, Cambodia, Viet Nam?

True Thailand didn't resist Japanese occupation, but you have to consider what happened to those countries who did. Maybe it was the right choice at the time. Fight to the death is a noble thing I suppose but...Maybe they read the "art of war" maybe they were certain that Thailand is not just dirt but Thai people who as we probably know will never be anything else.

If you have ever been in a position of power and had to make decisions that effect millions you would know.

Bottom line; There still here, being Thai and moving forward.

Actually, if you take a long term view, which is prudent when discussing economic growth, all of the countries you mentioned outperformed Thailand in terms of annual GNP growth rate over the past decade. One or two good growth years does not produce a significant trend. Thailand is not the only economic powerhouse in the region. Thailand is not even an economic powerhouse. Vietnam has done much better than Thailand over the past decade. So did Cambodia, India, and China, Malaysia and Singapore. All have had their ups and downs.

[ib1b4]

Thanks for the well written history lesson Cosmic. Your right, I haven't studied Thai history in detail. I'm more a big picture spare me the details guy.

All I need to know is Thailand is currently the only economic powerhouse in this area. Most countries would kill for 6% growth (actually several are killing for 1% but that's a different topic)and zero unemployment. Which neighbor would you say is exceeding that performance? Burma, Lao, Cambodia, Viet Nam?

True Thailand didn't resist Japanese occupation, but you have to consider what happened to those countries who did. Maybe it was the right choice at the time. Fight to the death is a noble thing I suppose but...Maybe they read the "art of war" maybe they were certain that Thailand is not just dirt but Thai people who as we probably know will never be anything else.

If you have ever been in a position of power and had to make decisions that effect millions you would know.

Bottom line; There still here, being Thai and moving forward.

I had a pair of the same glasses that you are wearing, but somebody sat on them the other day and now they are broken, and I see things in a different light now.

[johna]

A Thai politician's motto is "whats in it for me", and there is nothing in Anand's recommendation's that can be put in the bank.