Japanese Tourist Shot Dead In Chiang Rai By Thai Tour Guide

[jimbeam1]

Its funny how just about everyone on here chooses to be in Thailand, and most of them could easily go back to their own country or a number of other countries. But all they want to do is complain and moan and jump all over everything and everyone in Thailand. Geez, if you hate it so much...LEAVE! It is an entirely different culture, with different values, and the corruption is out in the open (as opposed to the countries where you come from, where the corruption is probably worse, but since it behind closed doors, no one seems to notice or care).

It would seem fairly obvious to anyone paying attention in the world that two high level drug gang members trekking through a remote area of the golden triangle are probably not after a picture of a temple or a monkey. And a 'tour guide' who is not only armed, but capable to taking down an armed Yakuza member is probably not the kind of guy who hangs around the airport in a tuk tuk. Sorry, but I have a hard time believing the 'tourist' was a really a victim of a psychotic tour guide with no patience and an itchy trigger finger. Regardless of if it was a hit, or just a reaction to a very heated situation with someone who was also armed, and may well have killed numerous people in his life for no good reason. Gang/mafia leaders are not well regarded for their patience and understanding when things don't go their way.

Actually I really like it here. If you live here a long time, pretty soon news like this just falls under Amazing Thailand, and it becomes hard to ignore it. Sort of like the 800 pound gorilla standing in the room everyone is trying to ignore. You HAVE to see the weird humor of a guide getting mad at his customers and gunning them down. ( his story). You do right?? Or the endless jumpers in Pattaya, or the farangs found hanging with their hands behind them in handcuffs that are ruled suicide ?? The truth will never be known ,so it just becomes a matter of interest to speculate on what really occurred. And these stories can also be a form of education in how to go wrong here. Make no mistake, LOTS of farangs die here. I just want to make sure I am not one of them.. :-)

Well said. My Rose tinted glasses came off long ago.

jb1

[MUYTHAI]

So the tour guide had the gun in order to 'defend tourists'! Is that normal practice for tour guides I wonder? As for the deceased being yakuza, I'd love to know how that conclusion was arrived at, perhaps he wrote it on his arrival/departure card under occupation.

Go back and read the article...and also look at the yakuza tattoos on the dead man's body. Only Yakuza have tats like that. Yakuza.

[BOS2BKK]

Its funny how just about everyone on here chooses to be in Thailand, and most of them could easily go back to their own country or a number of other countries. But all they want to do is complain and moan and jump all over everything and everyone in Thailand. Geez, if you hate it so much...LEAVE! It is an entirely different culture, with different values, and the corruption is out in the open (as opposed to the countries where you come from, where the corruption is probably worse, but since it behind closed doors, no one seems to notice or care).

It would seem fairly obvious to anyone paying attention in the world that two high level drug gang members trekking through a remote area of the golden triangle are probably not after a picture of a temple or a monkey. And a 'tour guide' who is not only armed, but capable to taking down an armed Yakuza member is probably not the kind of guy who hangs around the airport in a tuk tuk. Sorry, but I have a hard time believing the 'tourist' was a really a victim of a psychotic tour guide with no patience and an itchy trigger finger. Regardless of if it was a hit, or just a reaction to a very heated situation with someone who was also armed, and may well have killed numerous people in his life for no good reason. Gang/mafia leaders are not well regarded for their patience and understanding when things don't go their way.

Seconded.

[BOS2BKK]

I'm just surprised that there was $10,000 left in one of the backpacks by the time anyone got there.

That was 10K left after the tour guide, the villagers who helped the wounded man, and the BiB got a shot at it. I wonder how much was there before?

I have to agree with multiple previous posts. The head of a Yakuza family was not packing a pistol and a wad of cash around one of the worlds largest Opium processing hubs (and don't lets forget MethAmphetamine) to go take pictures of the stilt houses. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a duck. This was a drug deal gone bad, or maybe the Thai guide knew nothing of their plan, realized they had a ton of cash and robbed them. One lived...oops... they were Yakuza....double oops....

[BOS2BKK]

There used to be lots of opium on the hills of Chiang Rai.Do I have personal information about this - Yes! Used to see them back in the year 2000. That was 11 years ago - BT (before Taksin). Since then most of the opium came from across the border. Saw opium plant again only once (around 3 years ago) on the hands of someone in uniform near Doi Wawi. I doubt there is a lot of opium being grown in that area now. Besides, it seems to be rather out of the way of transhipment points (i.e. between Myanmar and Thailand).

One word comes to mind... opium. Lots of it.

Yeah...no opium in the golden triangle. What color is the sky in the universe you live in? The hill tribes have been processing opium for hundreds of years. Maybe it is less in your face, but it is still there, and now we have added Meth to the mix as well.

See another story the same day where they busted a couple of Burmese Wa army guys with over a million tabs of Meth in Chiang Rai. It is almost as if smugglers would want to AVOID popular transhipment points to allay suspicion.

Hey...maybe those guys had a buy scheduled with a couple of Yakuza who didn't show up?

[Briggsy]

The tour guide has tats too. He is a gangster too, for sure.

[sunholidaysun1]

The Bangkok post today reported on this story stating that the Guide in question handed in his gun a .38 , not the 9mm that was used in the killing ??

The story of 2 or more Yakuza Japanese Mafia and being bosses as well , trekking in the mountains of CR is

in my opinion hogwash. These Top men wouldnt do business with a tour guide, a Japanese minion would be sent to a hotel in BKK and a deal would be done there. Personally I think this was an orchestrated HIT. These men have come from Japan , taken somewhere, shot and nothing stolen from them . Maybe they have a fall guy in the Thai guide and maybe he will be released soon if enough money is paid. Maybe a bad drugs deal was done before and they came to make amends but ended up paying for it big time.

The talk on the streets is all in favour of the Guide as he really isnt that type of person unless of course he has been very well taken care of financially. Time will tell.

[blackthorn2005]

Perhaps if the tour guide had been on time instead of 1 hour late, this shooting would not have occurred.

I'm sure we have all been angry on many occasions due to the Thais lack of time-keeping.

Thai time keeping is not the best in the world, I have to shoot one or two of mt staff every week.

[Honolulu]

Most people reading this story could care less if the Japanese tourist was mafia or not. They will however, remember that a Thai tour guide murdered one of his guests.

As if the tuk-tuks and jet ski scams were not enough. Now you can come to Thailand, on vacation, and be murdered by your Thai host simply because he does not like you.

Another brick in the wall.

[khaowong1]

Sweet Justice served. I hope the poor tour guide doesn't get shit for this. If the reports are true, it ~IS~ self-defense. I mean c'mon... How many tour guides shoot their hosts dead in this country?

But the dead dong being "Yakuza"... Someone's gonna want retaliation...

wait a minute. what was the tour guide doing with a gun. was he allowed to have a gun? and the one guy was shot in the back? there's a lot more to this story for sure.

[Paul888]

Most people reading this story could care less if the Japanese tourist was mafia or not. They will however, remember that a Thai tour guide murdered one of his guests.

As if the tuk-tuks and jet ski scams were not enough. Now you can come to Thailand, on vacation, and be murdered by your Thai host simply because he does not like you.

Another brick in the wall.

I think most people reading this will be able to differentiate between a normal vacation or retirement and the kind of excursion that requires you to carry a gun and take a lot of cash to a remote location.

[toybits]

Another armchair expert on the subject of opium production. Have you ever seen opium being grown? Did you know that it is very easy to spot opium from the air? You honestly think that these tribal people at Chiang Rai are morons don't you?

Burmese Wa Army guys came from Burma. Not Thailand. Can you even see the difference?

The other guy was saying opium. My reply was about opium and not crystal meth.

Yeah...no opium in the golden triangle. What color is the sky in the universe you live in? The hill tribes have been processing opium for hundreds of years. Maybe it is less in your face, but it is still there, and now we have added Meth to the mix as well.

See another story the same day where they busted a couple of Burmese Wa army guys with over a million tabs of Meth in Chiang Rai. It is almost as if smugglers would want to AVOID popular transhipment points to allay suspicion.

Hey...maybe those guys had a buy scheduled with a couple of Yakuza who didn't show up?

[stevehoward1969]

I have tried to think of a logical solution to the scenario but it has merely produced more questions.

The report states the tourists produced guns first and the tour guide retaliated.

Q. Did the tourist open fire or just draw their sidearms.

If they fired then the guide retaliated in self defence. If they only drew their guns then the guide has some balls for opening up on two guys with guns.

In one of the reports the story has changed from the guide posessing a 9mm to a .38

Q. One tourist shot once in the head and once in the body (fatality) and the other shot in the head (casualty) is 3 bullets. Has any information been released as to whether the 3 remaining bullets from the. .38 were spent or not?

Q. If all bullets were spent from the 38, would you expect 50% as body shots and 50% to miss their targets completely?

Q. If not all the bullets were spent from the 38 then you would expect that the guide would have finished off the casualty case right?

[wallcracks]

Gangsters? Guns? Cash? Golden Tri- angle?

Remember 10,000usd buys a huge amount of wholesale or direct from the manufacturer.

High drug trafficking transport area ( Much like the Vietcong used ).

Meaning many diifferent trials to move goods through dense jungle to evade and abate detection.

If the Guy really was Yakuza and belonged to one of the biggest Drug Trafficing Gangs of Japan I don t think he would walk HIMSELF into the Woods and pay a actually small Amount (10K is nothing) to buy a couple of Kilos Opium are you shitting me or what??

Possible he was there to meet with a new Connection and to make a Down Payment to Start doing Business.

All that sounds like a Setup to me, the Tourguide is obviously a Hitman (would be interesting how long he actually all ready works as a Tourguide..)

and maybe works for a other Syndicate.

If it s not like that I don t believe he is from the Yakuza and why the Japanese had no Muscles with him?

Would be a Crime Boss really that stupid to walk around in a foreign Country with Fire Arms??? Don t think so.

It was either a Setup for this Guy or he was just a small time Gangster.....

[Daewoo]

I think it unlikely that the deceased was a head guy... I think that is either bad reporting, or an exageration... he is more likely a low level member...

I think it likely that the two Japanese guys were heading into the jungle to engage in some transaction for drugs... most probably coming over the border from Burma...

I think it likely that the tour guide knew that was their purpose, and was knowingly guiding them to a meet point... I think that is why he took the gun... but that doesn't in any way make him a hitman, just a careful co-conspiritor...

I think that the Japanese guy intended to shoot and kill him, either due to an arguement, or because he didn't want a witness to the crime he was committing... (probably the former)...

I think that the basis of the report being the complaining as THE cause is probably bad reporting, it was probably a minor point in the police interview...

I think either the Thai guy was defending himself from an unprovoked attack, or was actively engaged in the arguement, which escalated, and both parties drew their weapons...

I think it unlikely that the truth will ever come out, but I think it likely that the BiB will find in favour of the Thai where there is no evidence either way...

Lucky I am not on the Jury, since I formed this opinion based on the original article without any more knowledge or evidence...

[Mugg]

The tour guide has tats too. He is a gangster too, for sure.

WOW , what can one say about this.

[jdinasia]

Most people reading this story could care less if the Japanese tourist was mafia or not. They will however, remember that a Thai tour guide murdered one of his guests.

As if the tuk-tuks and jet ski scams were not enough. Now you can come to Thailand, on vacation, and be murdered by your Thai host simply because he does not like you.

Another brick in the wall.

How exactly are you reaching your conclusion about most people not caring if the "victims" were yakuza or not? IMHO most people will look at a story like this and NOT read "tourist" murdered in Thailand, but will read "Japanese mobster dies in Thailand."

[BOS2BKK]

Another armchair expert on the subject of opium production. Have you ever seen opium being grown? Did you know that it is very easy to spot opium from the air? You honestly think that these tribal people at Chiang Rai are morons don't you?

Burmese Wa Army guys came from Burma. Not Thailand. Can you even see the difference?

The other guy was saying opium. My reply was about opium and not crystal meth.

Yes. I did know it is easy to spot from the air. It's especially easy to spot from the ELINT suite of an MC130. I spent quite a bit of time working with poppy eradication teams. Where did you garner your expertise on opium smuggling may I ask that you feel qualified to call someone you don't know an armchair expert? Maybe you can PM me your address and we can explore the topic of your expertise in more detail?

Opium growing, and opium processing are two entirely different ventures. The golden triangle is not as legendary for growing it, as it is for being a central point for smuggling and processing. Yes, they probably did stop actually growing it there since the US Government, at the invitation of the Thai government runs a coordinated poppy eradication program.

My comment on meth bing smuggled through Chiang Rai was in reply to your statement Chiang Rai is not a transshipment point for smugglers. This is obviously an incorrect assumption as that very same day Burmese Meth smugglers were busted there. Well...at least that is my armchair expert opinion.

Edited April 29, 2011 by BOS2BKK

[toybits]

Did I say that Chiang Rai was NOT a transhipment point? Please tell me where I said it.

The place I was referring to is not along the Thai-Myanmar border. It is not the place where illegal drugs are transported. But you jump at the opportunity to show what a well informed person you are.

Hilltribe people were encouraged to grow opium legally before WWII. Three provinces were identified by the Government for opium production - Mae Hong Song, Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai. People who were encouraged to grow were the Hilltribes. However, things changed when opium production was made illegal in the year 1959.

Things got a bit messy when the Koumintang arrived in Chiang Rai in the early 50's. Lots of dirty S$%^t going on behind the scene. Everyone's hand dirty. Include your own government. Ha ha...

If there is opium production still going on in Chiang Rai, it is far from the levels of that being produced in 2000. But you make it look like opium production is still very widespread. Where did you get your intel on this?

Yes. I did know it is easy to spot from the air. It's especially easy to spot from the ELINT suite of an MC130. I spent quite a bit of time working with poppy eradication teams. Where did you garner your expertise on opium smuggling may I ask that you feel qualified to call someone you don't know an armchair expert? Maybe you can PM me your address and we can explore the topic of your expertise in more detail?

Opium growing, and opium processing are two entirely different ventures. The golden triangle is not as legendary for growing it, as it is for being a central point for smuggling and processing. Yes, they probably did stop actually growing it there since the US Government, at the invitation of the Thai government runs a coordinated poppy eradication program.

My comment on meth bing smuggled through Chiang Rai was in reply to your statement Chiang Rai is not a transshipment point for smugglers. This is obviously an incorrect assumption as that very same day Burmese Meth smugglers were busted there. Well...at least that is my armchair expert opinion.

[HereIAm]

Anyone seriously believes that a dreaded gangster could be killed so easily by a simple tourist guide like that ?

And that gangster's pal did nothing about it ?

[sunholidaysun1]

Where are all the poppies ?? Ive never seen one being grown here and neither has my helicopter pilot

[Johpa]

Yeah...no opium in the golden triangle. What color is the sky in the universe you live in? The hill tribes have been processing opium for hundreds of years. Maybe it is less in your face, but it is still there, and now we have added Meth to the mix as well.

Opium was introduced into the hills of Southeast Asia as a cash crop relatively recently, about 150 years ago. Prior to that it was harvested in India and Turkey. There has been relatively little opium production within the Thai borders since the 1980s. There are still to be found a few small poppy plots for tourists to admire. Cross border traffic in illegal drugs use to be raw opium, but by the early 1980s, after the police action against Khun Sa in Hin Taek, the processing labs had moved across the border and the traffic tended to be in refined heroin. Over the last 15-20 years most of the labs and drug traffic has switched to methamphetamines as the old school opiate dealers like Khun Sa in Burma and his able lieutenant in Thailand Laota, retired or were temporarily imprisoned and replace by the meth crowd, still financed by the same cast of characters in Bangkok.

And what's with Doi Hang? I though that was just west of Chiang Rai town. You would need to follow the Kok river on almost a straight line in a northwest direction, into Chiang Mai province, and to the Burmese border to do some serious drug business.

[fm2002]

Yeah...no opium in the golden triangle. What color is the sky in the universe you live in? The hill tribes have been processing opium for hundreds of years. Maybe it is less in your face, but it is still there, and now we have added Meth to the mix as well.

Opium was introduced into the hills of Southeast Asia as a cash crop relatively recently, about 150 years ago. Prior to that it was harvested in India and Turkey. There has been relatively little opium production within the Thai borders since the 1980s. There are still to be found a few small poppy plots for tourists to admire. Cross border traffic in illegal drugs use to be raw opium, but by the early 1980s, after the police action against Khun Sa in Hin Taek, the processing labs had moved across the border and the traffic tended to be in refined heroin. Over the last 15-20 years most of the labs and drug traffic has switched to methamphetamines as the old school opiate dealers like Khun Sa in Burma and his able lieutenant in Thailand Laota, retired or were temporarily imprisoned and replace by the meth crowd, still financed by the same cast of characters in Bangkok.

And what's with Doi Hang? I though that was just west of Chiang Rai town. You would need to follow the Kok river on almost a straight line in a northwest direction, into Chiang Mai province, and to the Burmese border to do some serious drug business.

That pretty much sums it up except I think your under estimating the opium trade out of Burma. Perhaps through Laos these days.

[WarpSpeed]

Seems there may be a bit more to this story.

Anyhow,... if the victim is in fact a member of the Yakuza then his killer might well be advised to skip country or quietly vanish (if he can make bail) and lay low as I expect they'd be all over this one.

Note to self: Don't argue with tour guides on remote trekking tours!

May be or then again may be not.. If he's at the top of the pyramid there maybe some pretty appreciative seconds in command..

[bahnhof]

Perhaps if the tour guide had been on time instead of 1 hour late, this shooting would not have occurred.

I'm sure we have all been angry on many occasions due to the Thais lack of time-keeping.

Thai time keeping is not the best in the world, I have to shoot one or two of mt staff every week.

Hopefully just small caliber.

[KimoMax]

Has to be way more to this story than meets the eye.

Supposidely the tour guide was a manager or someone of importance at a local very busy coffee, restaurant, and cocktail place that has long been rumored to have connections in high places.

Pretty fishy this guy was taking 2 male japanese tourists who wern't exactly young trecking to the rural areas.

All 3 of them surely knew what they were doing, and if there was an alterior motive to the tour.

A 9 mm pistol was reportedly found in one of the backpacks, and the dead tourists gun holster was empty. Where was the gun he reportedly used ?

Could not have been in the backpack since he was shot in the back and head fatally.

Truth in this story is somewhere in the middle of the guides story and the evidence released so far.

The guide had time to think about and make up his story to fit the crime before having a friend call the police to turn himself in.

[TheGhostWithin]

These two fit the description of the "quality", high spending tourists that the government wants, Yakuza or not. Yakuza are not street punk gangsters, but business people who do nto see the law as a boundary to making money, They have their own laws which are above those of the land. They, themselves, are as old as the land (nearly).

Yakuza or not ,people with money will be put off by this - and it is one of the main reasons people come to Thailand. There may be hundreds of guides, but they all seem to visit the same villages, and offer the same or very similar packages. High spenders are also highly sensitive to violent crimes against them - with good reason. If this guy is Yakuza, he would have had bodyguards and safe houses back home - this will remind them to take similar steps IF they decide to visit Thailand. It will remind those without that luxury, that Thailand is not always safe as the government might want you to think it is.

[TheGhostWithin]

The tour guide has tats too. He is a gangster too, for sure.

WOW , what can one say about this.

In Thai culture, unless it is a religious tattoo (like the Muay Thai boxers, and the monks have) - traditionally that person is a "black" person and involved in crime or is chained to the wheels of crime. you will notice a lot of girls in Sukhumvit have tattoos too, there is a reason for it. it is an indication of their social status and their occupation. Not always correct, but a good guideline.

[jdinasia]

The tour guide has tats too. He is a gangster too, for sure.

WOW , what can one say about this.

In Thai culture, unless it is a religious tattoo (like the Muay Thai boxers, and the monks have) - traditionally that person is a "black" person and involved in crime or is chained to the wheels of crime. you will notice a lot of girls in Sukhumvit have tattoos too, there is a reason for it. it is an indication of their social status and their occupation. Not always correct, but a good guideline.

ACtually, you are presenting a broad stereotype that is no longer socially valid.

[sunholidaysun1]

The tour guide has tats too. He is a gangster too, for sure.

WOW , what can one say about this.

In Thai culture, unless it is a religious tattoo (like the Muay Thai boxers, and the monks have) - traditionally that person is a "black" person and involved in crime or is chained to the wheels of crime. you will notice a lot of girls in Sukhumvit have tattoos too, there is a reason for it. it is an indication of their social status and their occupation. Not always correct, but a good guideline.

What a load of BS !! Half the foreign tourist women have tattoos, it a fashion thing and always has been

other than the religious ones that some need to adorn themselves with .