SiamOne Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Richard does have a point, although it is stated in an arrogant way. The Muslim extremists are not some single person led army against the west. The journos would have you believe that Osama is in charge of all the bombings etc. The phrase "al Quaeda hallmarks" is in common use, as in the Bali bombs yesterday. Most bombings are carried out by individual groups who subscribe to the arguments that the west and pro-west islamic goverments are bad. They are not controlled by an individual. The Muslim leaders around the world should therefore try to educate their followers, to try to follow a peaceful path. Iy all begins in the mosques. The idea of one "pope" like figure would hardly be possible as the Muslims have several types of Islam...as do the Christians. The pope does not speak for all Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Bali Bombings were an Al Queda sponsored group. There are many of these groups and cells around the world. They are independent, but also seek guidence from Bin laden/Associates not to mention financing/training. awarrumbungle -To equate Bush/Bin Laden as the same - is pure BS and pretty much throws any credibility you have out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awarrumbungle Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 (edited) Is Noam Chomsky credible? Have you ever looked at how many deaths have taken place at the hand of Georgy. Tell me about where the funding comes from and how they were trained.... come on, I'm not big on conspiracy, but seriously, how conservative can you be. Give me reasons why it makes me less credible. Dont just say it. Sorry to bring the vibe down guys, but britmaveric started it Edited October 4, 2005 by awarrumbungle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nam Kao Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Am i allowed to post here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 awarrumbungle - allied uniformed military providing support for iraq is not remotely in the same league as someone who targets civilians in the most cowardice way imaginable. We might not like the fact how we got to Iraq, but we are there, so let's finish it and get the <deleted> out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlRedEyes Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Peace? Where can I join a peace etc colony? Only individuals allowed, no group allegiances, which includes no religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Mouse Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Could all the militant extremists in this forum please raise their hands. (looking looking looking) I don't see any hands in the air. Who are we preaching to here? Do you really think that a brainwashed extremist, one who is willing to become a human bomb, one who is willing to blow up his own countrymen, women and children, is going to take any notice of a "friendship handshake?" They believe that it is far better to die and become a martyr than to shake hands with Western society. I don't believe that you can re-educate such people. Exterminate them. (sorry if I've offended anyone.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awarrumbungle Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Britmaveric, I don't want to argue about this petty Bush vs Osama. In my opinion they both do awfully cowardly and evil deeds. It would take an awful lot for me to start praising Georgy. He and who he represents has done a lot more than 'supporting' Iraq. Please tell me that smart bombs, cluster bombs and uranium tipped missiles are not cowardly........ I get depressed talking abou it all. But if you choose to delve into my point of view and get a well balanced opinion read some Noam Chomsky. Let's get focused on solutions. That's what peace is about. How do you stop terror? (including perpetrators from all religions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 mate: it is not about religion, it is about money! As long as you have Bush and Blair, you'll have people fighting against them. thailand is just a minor battlefield in this complex intransparent story..... But it is not about religion, religion is just another vehicle.... Folks come on let's look to a brighter future - we can have one if we all try together. Let's try and throw away our past histories (they're all crap anyway) and think and talk about all the nice things in life. There's too much negativity on the forum and it's making me all depressed, it's bad enough I'm missing my girl all these miles away and I won't see her for months!!!Let's just close our eyes and just simplify (drastically) the world for a moment - I'll represent and whole of the Muslim community (on this occasion) and all you guys can represent whatever communities you wish to and let me offer a sincere handshake of peace and freedom from my part. My people will no longer blow themselves up and kill indiscriminately, they will live peacefully and practice their beliefs without any grievance if they are left in peace also. From this moment on let's imagine the real leaders with the power doing the same thing, just try to feel the peace at least on this forum. Let's make this thread the perfect world as we would like to live in in reality, no hate, no war, heck no frikkin religion (forgive me oh Lord... ). Maybe somehow it can be translated out there into the real world. Who's with me on this one...? Here's my hand... Now where shall we begin...mmm..............pink candifloss, sunshine, blue skies, white sandy beaches, clear blue sea, pineapple shake, THAI GIRLS...... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awarrumbungle Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 How do you exterminate a concept and belief? The people are just carriers of this belief. Killing them is only speeding up the process (they might have just done it themselves anyway). It's the hate that needs to be cured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard10365 Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I never ment to say that all Muslims are the problem. My point was many are under educated in Islam. Perhaps it seems arrogant because I am prejudice against Muslims. It is probably due to my lack of knowledge about Islam and Muslims and the negative stories I hear about Muslims. I do realize we need peace and I am trying to offer an idea on how to fix it. In another post somewhere on TV, someone said many of the Muslims don't know the Koran. They are letting someone interpret the Koran for them. This is not much different than some of the other radicals of the 20th century. Does anyone remember David Koresh or a Japanese fanatic (with the nerve gas) who thought he was the messiah ? People will follow a confident, we spoken person all the way to the grave. Muslims are no different. They want to please their God too. Maybe some Muslims can't read too well or are undereducated to the point someone else is needed to interpret the Koran. A spiritual leader of the Muslim world and a conference where elected representatives of different sects of Islam come together to agree on what is right and to condem what is wrong is needed to properly teach the millions of Muslims around the world. At the same time, in areas where there is conflict with Muslims, cultural education to educate Non-Muslims on Islam. I believe ignorance on both sides is one of the main reasons there is no peace. I think my idea is a good idea but I know I don't have all the answers. Others need to take my idea and expand on it. Identify the problems with it and refine it into a workable plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leezer Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 whoa, zaz starts a thread relating to peace and positivity and in a mere three dozen posts, it has degenerated to smilies holding danger signs. perhaps someone needs to start another thread regarding the politics of terrorism? anyone want to bring up the frequency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 (edited) Noam Chomsky=misguided Anarchist I'm well familar with this narrow minded nutters' writings. Stick with linguistics is my advice!!!!! h90- purely about religion and hatred for western way of life. Edited October 4, 2005 by britmaveric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awarrumbungle Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Fair point. Start with yourself. Learn more about the Koran. Travel to a Muslim country and make friends. Or make Muslim friends where you are now. Talk about it with your students. (I could do well to follow my own advice ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awarrumbungle Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Noam Chomsky=misguided Anarchist I'm well familair with this narrow minded nutters' writings. Stick with linguistics is my advice!!!!! h90- purely about religion and hatred for western way of life. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So much hate!!! Surely an open minded person would reason and argue without resorting to petty name calling. Count to ten, 1, 2, 3..... and think good thoughts. Do something openminded and think truthfully with as little judgement as possible why they hate the western way of life and how you can change or help them accept difference without killing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Well I'm off to reality, I'll let you tip toe around with your appeasement agenda(s) and play footsie with nutters who want to blow you up and cut your head off. Cheers for this peace inspired thread!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awarrumbungle Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Good luck maveric! All the best in life. I hope even if you can't solve the left-wing problem, that you will make somebody happy and hopefully resolve somesort of conflict sometime in your life, no matter how small. Hope that you solve more than you create. Love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leezer Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Well I'm off to reality, I'll let you tip toe around with your appeasement agenda(s) and play footsie with nutters who want to blow you up and cut your head off. Cheers for this peace inspired thread!!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> britmaveric, lighten up! go to your reality, whatever that is. sounds like it doesn't belong in a 'peace inspired thread!' blessings to you! leezer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 can you explain the attack against the Iraq? There was no terrorism coming from the Iraq. But now there are a lot "freedom fighters". USA gouverment, but not only the USA gouverment are more than happy about every terrorist attack, because giving them a reason to cut human rights, freedom of speech, freedom of internet, attacking other countries, putting inocent people into prison, all with the excuse that it is war against terrorism. In real it is war for money...... No question that some stupid muslim extremists are following that wrong rules.... Noam Chomsky=misguided Anarchist I'm well familar with this narrow minded nutters' writings. Stick with linguistics is my advice!!!!! h90- purely about religion and hatred for western way of life. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaz Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 Could all the militant extremists in this forum please raise their hands.(looking looking looking) I don't see any hands in the air. Who are we preaching to here? Do you really think that a brainwashed extremist, one who is willing to become a human bomb, one who is willing to blow up his own countrymen, women and children, is going to take any notice of a "friendship handshake?" They believe that it is far better to die and become a martyr than to shake hands with Western society. I don't believe that you can re-educate such people. Exterminate them. (sorry if I've offended anyone.) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The intention of starting this thread was to collate a group of people who had good intentions, people who are willing to understand and learn how we can create a peaceful society for the benefit of us all. By enforcing our peaceful beliefs together we can surely influence those unfortunate enough to have one-way thinking and possibly just possibly change their way of thinking - I believe this can be done. In addition, I didn't post this thread to prove a point but I think one has to learn something from it. I, a Muslim, have from my sincere intentions come forward in peace, whether it be very simply on the internet or just Disneyworld, but notice that I have made the effort and no-one else has. So even from this simple perspective, even if I was trying to create an ideal world if only on this forum, exactly how many of you lot came forward and embraced this noble effort??? A handful....I thank those few who have. At the same time I have learned something from the utter lack of response, which obviously naively I was expecting it innundated with replies, that does it not tell us something that even in a "not real world" situation most users on this forum have chosen not accept this at all.........so, who wants peace and who doesn't? I think it's clear. Maybe it's not us Muslims that have to clean up our act after all..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 you are right your intentions are naively. And second you are right, it is not you muslim. It is a game about influence, money and power. That it is muslim against other is just coincidence. Bush wants your oil and muslim terrorists are a vehicle to join the other countries together. Would the oil be in Africa, Bin Laden would be a black man and from Nigeria. Could all the militant extremists in this forum please raise their hands.(looking looking looking) I don't see any hands in the air. Who are we preaching to here? Do you really think that a brainwashed extremist, one who is willing to become a human bomb, one who is willing to blow up his own countrymen, women and children, is going to take any notice of a "friendship handshake?" They believe that it is far better to die and become a martyr than to shake hands with Western society. I don't believe that you can re-educate such people. Exterminate them. (sorry if I've offended anyone.) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The intention of starting this thread was to collate a group of people who had good intentions, people who are willing to understand and learn how we can create a peaceful society for the benefit of us all. By enforcing our peaceful beliefs together we can surely influence those unfortunate enough to have one-way thinking and possibly just possibly change their way of thinking - I believe this can be done. In addition, I didn't post this thread to prove a point but I think one has to learn something from it. I, a Muslim, have from my sincere intentions come forward in peace, whether it be very simply on the internet or just Disneyworld, but notice that I have made the effort and no-one else has. So even from this simple perspective, even if I was trying to create an ideal world if only on this forum, exactly how many of you lot came forward and embraced this noble effort??? A handful....I thank those few who have. At the same time I have learned something from the utter lack of response, which obviously naively I was expecting it innundated with replies, that does it not tell us something that even in a "not real world" situation most users on this forum have chosen not accept this at all.........so, who wants peace and who doesn't? I think it's clear. Maybe it's not us Muslims that have to clean up our act after all..... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaz Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 My I also stress that my naivity was based on my thinking that all you guys wanted peace and would welcome the gesture of goodwill if it presented itself.......this is where it actually faltered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbojangles Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 .........so, who wants peace and who doesn't? I think it's clear. Maybe it's not us Muslims that have to clean up our act after all..... Of course (the majority) want peace. Personally i am living in Peace every day, i'm not fighting with anyone and i don't think replying to your thread has anything to do with, if i want peace or not. But you've lured me in with your last statement. That is indeed naive or stupid. Just because everyone isn't posting on your thread, you assume we all want War, is that it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awarrumbungle Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 (edited) I don't think you could say we don't want peace! It's more a case of how do we go about it? Who here has any peaceful solutions to the problems we face? All this thread has demonstrated is that not all people are willing to concede and communicate. It has demonstrated people only have a difference of opinion on the problems but not a grip on peaceful solutions. I guess a starting question we could answer is 'what is peace?' Edited October 4, 2005 by awarrumbungle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest endure Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 My I also stress that my naivity was based on my thinking that all you guys wanted peace and would welcome the gesture of goodwill if it presented itself.......this is where it actually faltered... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You haven't answered my question about whether you'd shake hands with gay folks, Zaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaz Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 Just because everyone isn't posting on your thread, you assume we all want War, is that it? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Absolutely not - that would be as stupid as a post from someone on one of the other threads suggesting the silence from the Muslim community in condemning terrorists means that we all support it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest endure Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 The intention of starting this thread was to collate a group of people who had good intentions, people who are willing to understand and learn how we can create a peaceful society for the benefit of us all. By enforcing our peaceful beliefs together <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How can you 'enforce peaceful beliefs'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaz Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 My I also stress that my naivity was based on my thinking that all you guys wanted peace and would welcome the gesture of goodwill if it presented itself.......this is where it actually faltered... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You haven't answered my question about whether you'd shake hands with gay folks, Zaz <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry endure I missed that one. Islam obviously has it's opinions/rulings on gay issues. At the same time I will say again, the underlysing principles of Islam is tolerance, patience and a live and let live attitude (many would still not belive this but it's true). Therefore, in answer to your question of course I would shake your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest endure Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 My I also stress that my naivity was based on my thinking that all you guys wanted peace and would welcome the gesture of goodwill if it presented itself.......this is where it actually faltered... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You haven't answered my question about whether you'd shake hands with gay folks, Zaz <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry endure I missed that one. Islam obviously has it's opinions/rulings on gay issues. At the same time I will say again, the underlysing principles of Islam is tolerance, patience and a live and let live attitude (many would still not belive this but it's true). Therefore, in answer to your question of course I would shake your hand. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaz Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 The intention of starting this thread was to collate a group of people who had good intentions, people who are willing to understand and learn how we can create a peaceful society for the benefit of us all. By enforcing our peaceful beliefs together <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How can you 'enforce peaceful beliefs'? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good point, a better term would be to collate or consolidate peaceful beliefs - what I'm trying to say is if we put all our beliefs together to have more "wellie". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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