Thailand Can No Longer Celebrate Freedom Of Speech

[Buchholz]

Oops, sorry, there was just a report that the link doesn't work.

Here it is again:

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/04/27/thailand-authorities-silence-red-shirt-community-radios

It is there, honest, I saw it.

Thank you for reconfirming that HRW report never said it is a lie that residents complained about illegal radio station broadcasts.

Hopefully now that has been put to rest.

Now then, how about those quotes/links from sources, other than yourself, that say it is a lie that complaints over illegal radio stations were ever made?

Thank you.

I have already (actually quite a few times) given sources.Read the HRW and AHRC comments.

I have read those comments, but never came across them saying what you are saying, which is, that it is a lie that residents complained about illegal radio station broadcasts.

[timekeeper]

.

maewrocks

and what coloured tints do your glasses have buddy? This rant is as biased as Arisiman on yabaa. Get a grip on reality. Things are not nearly that clear cut.

maewrocks,

isn't maew Thaksin's nickname?

its easy to see where a newbie like you is coming from.....

i am not your buddy, you are a red supporter, i am not.

i do not support criminal activity, murder, intimidation and violence by red revolutionaries

i do not have any tinted glasses, not yellow, blue, red or otherwise

just strong personal morals that tell me the difference between right and wrong and a good nose for BS

my rant is biased, it was meant to be.

it is reality but as usual you reds do not like the truth to be spoken about you and you seek to suppress it however you can

whats next ? threats to get me to shut up?

[timekeeper]

Oops, sorry, there was just a report that the link doesn't work.

Here it is again:

http://www.hrw.org/e...ommunity-radios

It is there, honest, I saw it.

Thank you for reconfirming that HRW report never said it is a lie that residents complained about illegal radio station broadcasts.

Hopefully now that has been put to rest.

Now then, how about those quotes/links from sources, other than yourself, that say it is a lie that complaints over illegal radio stations were ever made?

Thank you.

I have already (actually quite a few times) given sources.Read the HRW and AHRC comments.

I have read those comments, but never came across them saying what you are saying, which is, that it is a lie that residents complained about illegal radio station broadcasts.

so who was the liar.........?

question just answered (below) thank you

Edited May 6, 2011 by timekeeper

[jayboy]

Thank you for reconfirming that HRW report never said it is a lie that residents complained about illegal radio station broadcasts.

Hopefully now that has been put to rest.

Nobody's fooled.

The "complaints from the public issue" was never the main point of contention, and in any event arose from your misreading of my earlier post.

The HRW release confirms the political interference, dishonesty and political opportunism I had drawn attention to previously.

[timekeeper]

The radio stations were shut down because they did not have licences and the public had complained that they were interfearing with the broadcaste of licenced stations not the content of what they were broadcasting

Sorry that's a lie propagated by the military, nor is there any evidence of public complaints.There are hundreds of unlicensed community radio stations in Thailand but only those sympathetic to the Red shirts were shut down.

where are the sources of your claims Jayboy?

wheres the evidence ?

or is this just a lie propagated by you?

Several of the operators have been on Asia update displaying their recently renewed temporary broadcasting licences.Obviously not shown on the purple shellfish channel. Don't worry go on believing your government propaganda.

how recently?

after they were closed for not having it?

the very fact they have had to renew them shows they it was right that they were raided and were operating illegally anyway

also the reds not allowing the authorities to go about their legal business and stopped them closing down one station under threat of violence only re-reinforces what the majority of people think about the reds

they are no more than violent, intimidating bullies who think they can do just as they please and have no respect for the law.

i am happy to believe the government over the reds.

the reds have a greater propensity to lie and have had longer experience with the greatest advocate of lying as their tutor

Thaksin could never tell the truth when a lie would do .........

[trisailer]

I think someone had a little too much coffee this morning.

From where I sit I think that the messages of the various parties is getting out to the people who want to hear it. Maybe it isn't getting to us, but that is becaue we are looking for what resonates with our preconcieved notions. I see Thai people interested and seeking out information that they were never interested in before. Most people are concerned with what is happening in their immediate circle of family and community. I see Thai people becomming more interested in how the bigger picture effects them and I have 100% confidence in their ability to sort through it all and make a choice that's right for them.

I would argue that the current strain in the society is precisely because people are getting information that they never bothered with before and they are thinking about the bigger picture like they never did before. My wifes aunt is a leader in her community and she understands the need to understand the bigger picture to move her community forward. She also understands that there is a lot of misinformation out there.

All societies progress from the bottom up and not the other way. Most Thai people are becomming more engaged and demanding change because they have more information not less. No one can be denied information in this age. The challange is to sort out what is BS.

[Buchholz]

Thank you for reconfirming that HRW report never said it is a lie that residents complained about illegal radio station broadcasts.

Hopefully now that has been put to rest.

The "complaints from the public issue" was never the main point of contention, and in any event arose from your misreading of my earlier post.

Guess I was overly hopeful that the direct link would end the contentiousness of earlier posts.

It's difficult to see how anyone, including myself, could misread the post :

The radio stations were shut down because they did not have licences and the public had complained that they were interfearing with the broadcaste of licenced stations not the content of what they were broadcasting

Sorry that's a lie propagated by the military

Ultimately I think we've thoroughly run this into the ground, however. Posts are what they are.

Further discussion on this aspect would be superfluously redundant AKA bickering.

.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Buchholz

[timekeeper]

buchholz

Ultimately I think we've thoroughly run this into the ground, however. Posts are what they are.

Further discussion on this aspect would be superfluously redundant AKA bickering.

.

timekeeper

agreed, even when faced with the truth, presented by a respected Moderator, its very unlikely that you will get an admission or an apology by the main protagonist in denial

that would be far too humbling an experience for him to come down to our mere mortals level.......

[jayboy]

Further discussion on this aspect would be superfluously redundant AKA bickering.

I take it that's your way of conceding defeat, having had your position demolished by the HRW report.

Incidentally you did misread (I am being charitable) my earlier post which you have just truncated so the meaning was obscured.To refresh your memory:

"Sorry that's a lie propagated by the military, nor is there any evidence of public complaints.There are hundreds of unlicensed community radio stations in Thailand but only those sympathetic to the Red shirts were shut down."

In other words the lie was the manafactured excuse to close down stations the military doesn't like.As to the public complaints, I simply said I had seen no evidence.

[animatic]

Most of us DO want a Credible Opposition in a 2-4 large party system,

But 'Credible' does in no way describe the opposition we have.

Edited May 6, 2011 by animatic

[maewrocks]

Several of the operators have been on Asia update displaying their recently renewed temporary broadcasting licences.Obviously not shown on the purple shellfish channel. Don't worry go on believing your government propaganda.

how recently?

after they were closed for not having it?

the very fact they have had to renew them shows they it was right that they were raided and were operating illegally anyway

also the reds not allowing the authorities to go about their legal business and stopped them closing down one station under threat of violence only re-reinforces what the majority of people think about the reds

they are no more than violent, intimidating bullies who think they can do just as they please and have no respect for the law.

i am happy to believe the government over the reds.

the reds have a greater propensity to lie and have had longer experience with the greatest advocate of lying as their tutor

Thaksin could never tell the truth when a lie would do .........

Ans: Earlier this week.

Ans: Yes, after they were shut down.

You are ranting. You lose any credibility you may have had when you write like this. Please use reason not bias.

How on earth does having a temporary permit make them guilty?

How do you know about the government's propensity to lie?

Also, please don't kill yourself when PT wins the election.

[timekeeper]

how recently?

after they were closed for not having it?

the very fact they have had to renew them shows they it was right that they were raided and were operating illegally anyway

also the reds not allowing the authorities to go about their legal business and stopped them closing down one station under threat of violence only re-reinforces what the majority of people think about the reds

they are no more than violent, intimidating bullies who think they can do just as they please and have no respect for the law.

i am happy to believe the government over the reds.

the reds have a greater propensity to lie and have had longer experience with the greatest advocate of lying as their tutor

Thaksin could never tell the truth when a lie would do .........

Ans: Earlier this week.

Ans: Yes, after they were shut down.

You are ranting. You lose any credibility you may have had when you write like this. Please use reason not bias.

How on earth does having a temporary permit make them guilty?

How do you know about the government's propensity to lie?

Also, please don't kill yourself when PT wins the election.

thank you Thaksinrocks for your comments

they make no sense, i will try to help you out though

now read slowly.........

you are ranting

because i choose to right a few more words in support of my beliefs than most one line posters on here, that makes for a ranting accusation?

Ans: Earlier this week.

Ans: Yes, after they were shut down.

so they renewed them after they were shut down for not having a license?

isn't that an admission that they did not have a license at the time they were shut down?

if they had one when raided why did they need to renew it after?

How do you know about the government's propensity to lie?

i was referring to the reds propensity to lie, in fact i said exactly that.

i did not say anything about the governments propensity to lie

thank fully the reds are not in charge of the government

kill myself?

hardly likely, killing , murder and mayhem are the tools in trade of the reds

its possible i might be killed by them but it will certainly not be by my own hand

please come back to me again when you need a simple post explaining so that you can understand it

as a concession to you and other reds, i will try to write less so it comes within your level of comprehension in future

[dighambara]

Defination: Banana republic is a pejorative term originally used to refer to a country that is politically unstable, dependent on limited agriculture (e.g. bananas), and ruled by a small, self-elected, wealthy, and corrupt clique. ..

LOL some might argue that Thailand has already accomplished this status.

I watched an interesting new item on BBC re: "the royal weeding" people openly discussed their view of the institutional of the "royals." Refreshing to see more evidence of how a democracy functions. Is Thailand a democracy now?

I am British and loved watching the royal wedding, so did a lot of my Thai friends. The hundreds of thousands of people that lined the streets and the millions that watched the wedding on TV show just how popular the British royal family is. Britain is a democracy with a strong belief in freedom of speech, no need for draconian laws in the UK to censor expression of opinions.

In Brave New World the masses were given the drug 'soma' to make them feel happy and content with their lot. In Britain we have TV, soaps and Royal Weddings. The latter having life long far reaching effects from some go-lucky intellectually challenged ex-pats who just can't seem to shake off the voices of their education and think freely for themselves.

Heaven only knows what such persons might make of free speech, if they ever tried it along with free thought. But there you go.

Thailand remains a banana democracy; clearly bent out of shape, starts off green, changes to yellow throughout, before going brown then black as though it just can't make its mind up what colour it should be.

As long as there is a taboo subject that is not sexual or obscene in the same way that discussions of pedophilia can never be held, then there is no freedom of speech. Nor has there been.

As long as Thailand hurts only itself; remains of no consequence internationally; its people failing to realise that revolution can be some thing other than a turning motorcy wheel; its education system a fine example of failure; its political system a product of its education system; then, and only then will there be no harm done.

The sad fact about the Thais is that they remain the Swiss of the far east minus the ingenuity. The Swiss having at least to have given the world fine time pieces, superb chocolate and a banking system where the world's money can be laundered.

You see if you're going to be corrupt at least be good at it, get away with it, and make yourself attractive to the rest of the corrupt world. For example, even Gaddaffi has 400 million stashed there. Thaksin too squirrllled it away via Zurich.

But Thailand manages prawns [ tasteless and soft ] and rice [bland and fiddly to cook.] And both of them are quite easily done without. But where it does match the Swiss in in its neutrality, managing to support the japanese then the British then finally declare ite neutrality during the Second World War. Furthermore, the proud boast that they were never colonialised is really admitting to being responsible for their own parlous state of affairs, ineptitude and corruption as an institution, as no foreign hand ever took control. So Thailand is as Thailand as because the Thais have run the show unimpeded. Well at least that's clear.

Malaysia soars ahead in so many ways even coping with its religions and managing without a little civil war down south. Burma waits to rise no doubt like malaysia once the genehrals have been strung up and the once colonised state reeps the benefit from British rule ala Malaysia. Laos can at least blame cold war communism ala North Korea for going nowhere fast while Cambodia having shunned communism is now rocketting forward as is Vietnam economically.

But where is the land of prawns and crackers going anywhere soon other than in its ever decreasing circles the Thai way: a highway to nowhere particularly attractive other than coups, corruption and Krap trap.

So in this nation where its almost to boastful to brag of how many daughters work as Pattaya prostitutes; where the sons and daughters finish their education aged 10 to work on the farm; where being born into a rural community means a shortened life time of ill health, high mortality, hard physical labour, weak immune system and abject poverty; where checks and balances do not exist; where the Police are a force to be avoided; where corruption reaches deep into every corner of the land; and , disputes are settled by murder for which there is every chance of getting away with it as the Police understand 'forensics' to be some foreign zic. What's a zic they ask.

We are given to question the availability of freedom of speech.

Really?

Why am I not surprised.

Libya, Yemen, Syria, Egypt ............................... but not Thailand. And why? Full bellies and a lack of intellect, education or idealism. And that covers not just the rural poor but rather 99.9% of this nation's population. They worship wealth to an irrational level. They mock disability. They are racist to their own darker skinned people and extremist in their attitude to person's of colour. Add to this a religion which basically allows you to do anything you want to do without fear of chastisement and mix ina blend of animism, tree worship and idolotry.

It's a third world country which, when the definition of a failed state is re-drawn in 50 years will see the likes of Thailand red lined.

It is not going to get any better. It is in a state of death throe already and nothing will be done to save it simply because their isn't the impetus, need or desire on behalf of the first world. China will not build it's CU or United Provinces and geographically Thailand without any ideology is of no use to China or any one else. Economically it is by-passed. Wars do not have to be fought from friendly logistical places any more, which leaves Thailand isolated and uselessly unattractive as a proposition to the US or the EU.

When push comes to shove it will be all too late for what will be banana democracies. Thailand is simply a casualty waiting to happen. The suspected nose bleed is actually a severed artery and we're about to witness a steady irreversible blood flow.

Do I care? They do it to them selves. they loath foreigners, disdain and dismiss our advcie, education and input.

We do not understand Thai ways. That's true because the train has left the station without them.

The US shooting of Osama will have repurcussions beyond our expectations. The world is changing. Do you seriously think that anyone will care much for a state that can't run itself and function effectively. Are prawns and rice going to swing it for them? Bush said you're either with us or against. And the UK jumped on board in first place. No one doubts the US Europe relationship today what with our joint bombing of Libya and killing of Gaddaffi's youngest son. The next week we kill Osama and family members.

In all truth what time do you think the sharp end has for corrupt, uneducated, undemocratic out posts?

They can't see the big picture themselves in Thailand and yet the Pakistanis are already contemplating the fall out from harbouring Bin Laden. Terrorists were passing freely through and into this corrupt land and we can all remember Victor Bout, or should remember he was caught - here!

With no house in order and the world being cleaned up does Thailand think it can continue offering nothing whilst holding out its hand? pakistan is to receiev 7 billion in aid prior to harbouring Bin Laden around the corner from the secret service headquarters. The US will deliver something unexpected.

Thailand ...................................... Ts Elliot complained that he grew old. I suggest wiser too.

Thailand is just old. Somebody will shoot it.

And that is freedom of speech.

MY MY, quite a dissertation... A complete analysis of all that is wrong (in your opinion) with the country...LOL

Nevertheless, I agree with many of your points, but think this is not the place to spend so much time and space on all of Thailand's problems...

Such a work of art as your tale, is certainly worth a PhD - at least in Thailand...LOL

[jdinasia]

Further discussion on this aspect would be superfluously redundant AKA bickering.

I take it that's your way of conceding defeat, having had your position demolished by the HRW report.

Incidentally you did misread (I am being charitable) my earlier post which you have just truncated so the meaning was obscured.To refresh your memory:

"Sorry that's a lie propagated by the military, nor is there any evidence of public complaints.There are hundreds of unlicensed community radio stations in Thailand but only those sympathetic to the Red shirts were shut down."

In other words the lie was the manafactured excuse to close down stations the military doesn't like.As to the public complaints, I simply said I had seen no evidence.

"There is no evidence" is obviously not the same as "I had seen no evidence". One is an absolute statement of fact. The other is an opinion that many would see as originating out of bias. I am sure that the HRW report can't make someone who blames the military for everything very happy. It nicely does away with any claim of a "massacre" and justly points to the reds. There are some glaringly biased sections in the report where they state they draw a conclusion from single sources etc ... but as I said in another post in response to Pi Sek ... overall THIS report isn't nearly as biased or slanted as some people would wish.

For admissions of losses ... I suggest looking back into other threads like the one about the radio stations being shut down

[jayboy]

Further discussion on this aspect would be superfluously redundant AKA bickering.

I take it that's your way of conceding defeat, having had your position demolished by the HRW report.

Incidentally you did misread (I am being charitable) my earlier post which you have just truncated so the meaning was obscured.To refresh your memory:

"Sorry that's a lie propagated by the military, nor is there any evidence of public complaints.There are hundreds of unlicensed community radio stations in Thailand but only those sympathetic to the Red shirts were shut down."

In other words the lie was the manafactured excuse to close down stations the military doesn't like.As to the public complaints, I simply said I had seen no evidence.

"There is no evidence" is obviously not the same as "I had seen no evidence". One is an absolute statement of fact. The other is an opinion that many would see as originating out of bias. I am sure that the HRW report can't make someone who blames the military for everything very happy. It nicely does away with any claim of a "massacre" and justly points to the reds. There are some glaringly biased sections in the report where they state they draw a conclusion from single sources etc ... but as I said in another post in response to Pi Sek ... overall THIS report isn't nearly as biased or slanted as some people would wish.

For admissions of losses ... I suggest looking back into other threads like the one about the radio stations being shut down

The HRW report is even handed giving no comfort to extremists from either side, whether from the far left or miltary cheerleaders.The thought processes behind your post are so obscure that it's difficult to respond.I gather however from your agitation that you are uncomfortable with some home truths being addressed.That is what I would have expected.However on a point of detail you are completely wrong namely that while the report quotes a single source it does not draw general conclusions from it.

Next step I suppose is to accuse the HRW of being in the pay of Thaksin!

[jdinasia]

Further discussion on this aspect would be superfluously redundant AKA bickering.

I take it that's your way of conceding defeat, having had your position demolished by the HRW report.

Incidentally you did misread (I am being charitable) my earlier post which you have just truncated so the meaning was obscured.To refresh your memory:

"Sorry that's a lie propagated by the military, nor is there any evidence of public complaints.There are hundreds of unlicensed community radio stations in Thailand but only those sympathetic to the Red shirts were shut down."

In other words the lie was the manafactured excuse to close down stations the military doesn't like.As to the public complaints, I simply said I had seen no evidence.

"There is no evidence" is obviously not the same as "I had seen no evidence". One is an absolute statement of fact. The other is an opinion that many would see as originating out of bias. I am sure that the HRW report can't make someone who blames the military for everything very happy. It nicely does away with any claim of a "massacre" and justly points to the reds. There are some glaringly biased sections in the report where they state they draw a conclusion from single sources etc ... but as I said in another post in response to Pi Sek ... overall THIS report isn't nearly as biased or slanted as some people would wish.

For admissions of losses ... I suggest looking back into other threads like the one about the radio stations being shut down

The HRW report is even handed giving no comfort to extremists from either side, whether from the far left or miltary cheerleaders.The thought processes behind your post are so obscure that it's difficult to respond.I gather however from your agitation that you are uncomfortable with some home truths being addressed.That is what I would have expected.However on a point of detail you are completely wrong namely that while the report quotes a single source it does not draw general conclusions from it.

Next step I suppose is to accuse the HRW of being in the pay of Thaksin!

1) I am neither agitated

2) nor uncomfortable

Please do not characterize the person responding to your posts. You completely skip over the untruth in your post that I responded to -- "there is no evidence" and "I had seen no evidence" are not the same thing.

If you cannot follow thought processes of other posters it would seem appropriate to ask direct questions about them OR not respond .. your response was simply baiting.

The report citing a single source that cannot be verified and without a disclaimer gives the single source weight it does not merit. It shouldn't have been included.

[jayboy]

[quote name='jdinasia' timestamp='1304690606' post='4405618

1) I am neither agitated

2) nor uncomfortable

Please do not characterize the person responding to your posts. You completely skip over the untruth in your post that I responded to -- "there is no evidence" and "I had seen no evidence" are not the same thing.

If you cannot follow thought processes of other posters it would seem appropriate to ask direct questions about them OR not respond .. your response was simply baiting.

The report citing a single source that cannot be verified and without a disclaimer gives the single source weight it does not merit. It shouldn't have been included.

I think the position is fairly clear to most intelligent people.

If I cannot follow someone's thought processes it is either means I am a bit thick or alternatively ....well no need to spell it out.

[rubl]

With the usual jayboy / jdinasia bickering going on, I can only assume there's nothing more serious going on at the moment. Ah, Friday night, relax and have a beer

Edited May 6, 2011 by rubl

[jdinasia]

With the usual jayboy / jdinasia bickering going on, I can only assume there's nothing more serious going on at the moment. Ah, Friday night, relax and have a beer

You have 2 valid points.

Since Jayboy will not stop attacking the poster instead of the contents of the post .. he is now in ignore.

and

It is a good time for a beer

[timekeeper]

jdinasia

1) I am neither agitated

2) nor uncomfortable

Please do not characterize the person responding to your posts. You completely skip over the untruth in your post that I responded to -- "there is no evidence" and "I had seen no evidence" are not the same thing.

If you cannot follow thought processes of other posters it would seem appropriate to ask direct questions about them OR not respond .. your response was simply baiting.

The report citing a single source that cannot be verified and without a disclaimer gives the single source weight it does not merit. It shouldn't have been included.

jayboy

I think the position is fairly clear to most intelligent people.

If I cannot follow someone's thought processes it is either means I am a bit thick or alternatively ....well no need to spell it out.

timekeeper

i would go with the former.............

Edited May 7, 2011 by timekeeper