Selling Land

[newbepat]

I have a question about selling land in Thailand.

I bought land in a village near friendship Bridge Mukdahan

Now i want to sell, we have an offer to purchase

Problem is my girlfriend is busy in work in Bangkok

Mother is helping the sale. The property is in my girlfriends name ( for obvious reasons that i can't own land in Thailand) girlfriend has title & papers to the property.

The guy buying the land made out a simple contract and paid mother deposit. The contract stated if he does not compleat the sale he loses his deposit

but if we fail to compleat the sale he can claim 10 times the deposit. mother and village leader signed contract, I dont agree with the arrangment

(girlfriend did not see or sign the contract ) is this contract binding in Thai law?

Anybody have any advise :jap:

Pat

[InterestedObserver]

Given the facts as presented I'd say YES the contract is legal and binding under Thai law between the buyer and your GF's mother. Your GF is not a party to the contract as she did not sign, if that's what you are worried about. The mother is on the hook if the deal falls through, did she have authority to accept deposit on behalf of your GF?

Edited May 6, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[ESB7]

Its normal for it to be twice the amount of deposit but never heard of 10 times the amount..............the guy must be a serious buyer if he has left a deposit, as you purchased the land you are aware that no problems exist so dont worry....the sale should go through OK..if the buyer pulls out, you get to keep his deposit

[thaiwanderer]

GF's mum and village leader signed - did the potential buyer?

[InterestedObserver]

GF's mum and village leader signed - did the potential buyer?

What's the GF have to say about all this, it is her land after all.

[malcolminthemiddle]

Given the facts as presented I'd say YES the contract is legal and binding under Thai law between the buyer and your GF's mother. Your GF is not a party to the contract as she did not sign, if that's what you are worried about. The mother is on the hook if the deal falls through, did she have authority to accept deposit on behalf of your GF?

Providing the G/F did not give a written PoA to her mother I would agree with IO.

Let's hope the sale goes through without any problem to prevent a possible family crisis.

[newbepat]

Thanks guys for your comments so far. the way i look at it, I think the contract is a little one sided, its all in favour the purchaser.

I would have thought the contract would have faxed to my g/f in Bkk to read before anybody signed, and if we agreed terms my g/f should sign

but when my g/f got the contract it was signed by the village leader, g/f mother, and purchaser. g/f mother is holding the deposit. g/f holds the deeds

I am just thinking if mother decides to hold on to the deposit.

How does the purchaser think he has a contract with my g/f to buy her land when she did not sign the contract.?

We want to sell but if something goes wrong. The purchaser has the upper hand.

G/f will have to go to the village with the deeds i presume, collect the balance of the money hand over the deeds.

but mother might hold on to the deposit. Its not the way i like to do business.

But will i be told this is Thailand?

Pat

[InterestedObserver]

Calm down! So the GF's mother pockets the deposit. You gave the money away long ago.

[newbepat]

All 200,000 Baht deposit. Do you think thats? ok?

I am one of the farlangs who was not intending of buying a wife.

I did not give the land away. I bought as an Investment g/f & mother knows this

but do i have to go into with you re : i can't own land in my name thing?

Mother will get her commision for selling.

But my question was really about . Was about the contract fair and is it binding?

Pat

Edited May 6, 2011 by newbepat

[InterestedObserver]

I did not give the land away. I bought as an Investment g/f & mother knows this

but do i have to go into with you re : i can't own land in my name thing?

Next time use the land office to register a mortgage on the back of the Chanote so the land cannot be sold unless/until you get all your money back.

Edited May 6, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[newbepat]

What?

[InterestedObserver]

What?

From the Civil and Commercial Code:

Section 702. A mortgage is a contract whereby a person, called the mortgagor, assigns a property to another person, called the mortgagee, as security for the performance of an obligation, without delivering the property to the mortgagee.

The mortgagee is entitled to be paid out of the mortgaged property in preference to ordinary creditors regardless as to whether or not the ownership of the property has been transferred to a third person.

[thaiwanderer]

"I did not give the land away"

You only paid for the land. It isn't yours (and never was).

Is this how do you normally 'like to do business' - hoping for a return on a gift?

The contract such that it is isn't binding on your girlfriend. Its potentially binding on her mother (though impossible for her to personally perform).

Your GF doesn't have to keep to it but will then likely lose that potential buyer (and maybe put off other potential buyers), cause problems with her mother and in the village.

While the only foothold you have here is persuasive powers over your girlfriend (hope they trump her mother and your girlfriend's desire to give you the money from the sale of her own land) what is it that you dislike about the deal?

Do you not want your girlfriend to sell to this potential buyer?

Do you think the mother will not return the full deposit to your girlfriend?

Edited May 7, 2011 by thaiwanderer

[donx]

I don't know whether your girlfriend gave power of attorney to her mother or not, but I know when my wife wanted to buy land a few years ago she did give this authority (or something similar) to her sister or brother when she provided a deposit for the purchase of land. I don't know the details of how the deposit was performed. I do know that we would have lost the deposit if we didn't buy the land. I don't know what the seller would have to pay us if they didn't sell to us.

The question I have for you is did your girlfriend give her mother the authority to receive the deposit? If so then even if she didn't understand the details of the agreement she may still be obligated to comply with the agreement. If she never authorized her mother to sign an agreement for her then she is definitely not obligated to comply.

[newbepat]

What?

From the Civil and Commercial Code:

Section 702. A mortgage is a contract whereby a person, called the mortgagor, assigns a property to another person, called the mortgagee, as security for the performance of an obligation, without delivering the property to the mortgagee.

The mortgagee is entitled to be paid out of the mortgaged property in preference to ordinary creditors regardless as to whether or not the ownership of the property has been transferred to a third person.

I read your answer over and over trying to understand your reply

I don't really know why you are talking about a mortgage

I never mention anything about a mortgage

Pat

[newbepat]

"I did not give the land away"

You only paid for the land. It isn't yours (and never was).

Is this how do you normally 'like to do business' - hoping for a return on a gift?

The contract such that it is isn't binding on your girlfriend. Its potentially binding on her mother (though impossible for her to personally perform).

Your GF doesn't have to keep to it but will then likely lose that potential buyer (and maybe put off other potential buyers), cause problems with her mother and in the village.

While the only foothold you have here is persuasive powers over your girlfriend (hope they trump her mother and your girlfriend's desire to give you the money from the sale of her own land) what is it that you dislike about the deal?

Do you not want your girlfriend to sell to this potential buyer?

Do you think the mother will not return the full deposit to your girlfriend?

I know i can't own land in Thailand ( and maybe I never will) as you put it.

This is a business arrangement ( not a gift to anybody) so I am not looking for a return on a gift, but a return on a investment.

Yes i want to sell to the potential buyer, I just dont like the contract he made out.

repeat : 200,000 deposit he will lose if he does not complete but 10 x 200,000 if I dont complete

The question you asked about mother not returing the deposit I can't answer. (I think the deposit should have gone to me or my girlfriend)

I did not get the option to accept or refuse the contract

Buyer seems happy to deal with mother even thoe he knows she does own the land (he can't be that stupid)

Pat

[newbepat]

I don't know whether your girlfriend gave power of attorney to her mother or not, but I know when my wife wanted to buy land a few years ago she did give this authority (or something similar) to her sister or brother when she provided a deposit for the purchase of land. I don't know the details of how the deposit was performed. I do know that we would have lost the deposit if we didn't buy the land. I don't know what the seller would have to pay us if they didn't sell to us.

The question I have for you is did your girlfriend give her mother the authority to receive the deposit? If so then even if she didn't understand the details of the agreement she may still be obligated to comply with the agreement. If she never authorized her mother to sign an agreement for her then she is definitely not obligated to comply.

My girlfriend did ask mother to see if she can find a buyer for the land. (mother lives in village close to the land and g/f lives in Bkk)

As far as i know she did not give mother authority to accept a deposit or sign a contract on her behalf

My girlfriend agrees with you ( if we don't want to go ahead with the sale we don't have to as she signed nothing and the land is in her name)

Pat

[InterestedObserver]

What?

From the Civil and Commercial Code:

Section 702. A mortgage is a contract whereby a person, called the mortgagor, assigns a property to another person, called the mortgagee, as security for the performance of an obligation, without delivering the property to the mortgagee.

The mortgagee is entitled to be paid out of the mortgaged property in preference to ordinary creditors regardless as to whether or not the ownership of the property has been transferred to a third person.

I read your answer over and over trying to understand your reply

I don't really know why you are talking about a mortgage

I never mention anything about a mortgage

Pat

Your investment is not secured. You are entirely at the mercy of your girlfriend, who owns the land, and now her mother. With a mortgage in your name as mortgagee registered at the Land Office you would have control over the sale, which you currently do not..

[newbepat]

Where would i get a mortgage to buy land in Thailand ? if I can't own.

[newbepat]

[InterestedObserver]

Where would i get a mortgage to buy land in Thailand ? if I can't own.

Oh Boy! Your girlfriend in effect borrowed money from you to purchase the land, for which she became the legal owner. You invested money with the girlfriend to purchase land for which you fully expect to be repaid upon sale of said property. You, as mortgagee, are entitled to register a mortgage contract at the Land Office against the girlfriend, as mortgagor, and have the mortgage contract recorded on the back of the Chanote title deed as security for your investment..

[thaiwanderer]

"I did not give the land away"

You only paid for the land. It isn't yours (and never was).

Is this how do you normally 'like to do business' - hoping for a return on a gift?

The contract such that it is isn't binding on your girlfriend. Its potentially binding on her mother (though impossible for her to personally perform).

Your GF doesn't have to keep to it but will then likely lose that potential buyer (and maybe put off other potential buyers), cause problems with her mother and in the village.

While the only foothold you have here is persuasive powers over your girlfriend (hope they trump her mother and your girlfriend's desire to give you the money from the sale of her own land) what is it that you dislike about the deal?

Do you not want your girlfriend to sell to this potential buyer?

Do you think the mother will not return the full deposit to your girlfriend?

I know i can't own land in Thailand ( and maybe I never will) as you put it.

This is a business arrangement ( not a gift to anybody) so I am not looking for a return on a gift, but a return on a investment.

Yes i want to sell to the potential buyer, I just dont like the contract he made out.

repeat : 200,000 deposit he will lose if he does not complete but 10 x 200,000 if I dont complete

The question you asked about mother not returing the deposit I can't answer. (I think the deposit should have gone to me or my girlfriend)

I did not get the option to accept or refuse the contract

Buyer seems happy to deal with mother even thoe he knows she does own the land (he can't be that stupid)

Pat

If you want to sell to him, what's the problem?

It seems you are stamping your feet over somthing that's a non-issue?

Also something that's actually nothing to do with you - how exactly is 'your' 'investment' secured?

It's NOT a business arrangement.

Maybe read the current thread about nominees.

[newbepat]

Where would i get a mortgage to buy land in Thailand ? if I can't own.

Oh Boy! Your girlfriend in effect borrowed money from you to purchase the land, for which she became the legal owner. You invested money with the girlfriend to purchase land for which you fully expect to be repaid upon sale of said property. You, as mortgagee, are entitled to register a mortgage contract at the Land Office against the girlfriend, as mortgagor, and have the mortgage contract recorded on the back of the Chanote title deed as security for your investment..

Thanks for explaining that to me.:jap: Pat

[thaiwanderer]

bit late now to register a mortgage though?

[Tanaka]

Newbepat,

Your wife is the owner of the property and hers is the only name on the Chanot? Without her written Power of Attorney to her mother or anyone else, whatever the mother and the Puyay Baan have agreed to with a potential buyer of the property, has no legal binding for your wife.

The "contract" is also of no concern for her for the above reason. That someone has paid 200.000 THB to her mother for something she has no legal control over, is their concern, not yours or your wife's. A 10% non-refundable deposit is not uncommon but a fine of 10 times that in case the seller backs out, is not adequate! In any case this has nothing to do with either you or your wife. If your wife does not want to sell to this man, he can sue your mother in law and the Puyay Ban for the 2 mill provided the "contract" is binding on that part. Which also is doubtful as it concerns something your mother in law and the PB do not own.

If your wife wants to sell to the interested party, she must come home and take the deed with her. She then goes to the Land Office together with the buyer and the Office will change the name on the deed. If there are no mortgages registered on the back of the Chanote! There is a fee to be paid to the LO, I believe it is 2% of the purchase sum if your wife has owned the land more than 5 years. If not, it will be 2+3,3%. Then your wife and the buyer will go to the bank and the money will be paid and the Chanote given to the buyer. This is the normal procedure.

What else have been said here regarding mortgages and other things is irrelevant to you now. What would have been good for you to have done when your wife bought the land, was for you to register a usufruct on the land for your benefit. Then the land could not be sold without your consent. And also if you had a usufruct, you could have registered a mortgage as said earlier and then the land could not be sold before the outstanding loan was repaid.

[stgrhe]

<br /><font size="3">Newbepat,<br />Then your wife and the buyer will go to the bank and the money will be paid and the Chanote given to the buyer.</font><br />

<br /><br /><br />

Better still is to ask the buyer to bring a bank draft with him to the land office so the money transaction can take place at the same time as the title deed is transferred.

[maccaroni man]

Thanks guys for your comments so far. the way i look at it, I think the contract is a little one sided, its all in favour the purchaser.

I would have thought the contract would have faxed to my g/f in Bkk to read before anybody signed, and if we agreed terms my g/f should sign

but when my g/f got the contract it was signed by the village leader, g/f mother, and purchaser. g/f mother is holding the deposit. g/f holds the deeds

I am just thinking if mother decides to hold on to the deposit.

How does the purchaser think he has a contract with my g/f to buy her land when she did not sign the contract.?

We want to sell but if something goes wrong. The purchaser has the upper hand.

G/f will have to go to the village with the deeds i presume, collect the balance of the money hand over the deeds.

but mother might hold on to the deposit. Its not the way i like to do business.

But will i be told this is Thailand?

Pat

what can go wrong? you say you want to sell the land,the buyer has put money on the table. the only thing the buyer is concerned about is you changing your mind or finding a new buyer who will pay more. you are 99% of the way to a done deal, relax, be happy and get the gf to the land office. btw you did not say if the buyer had put a time line on the closing date.

[newbepat]

Newbepat,

Your wife is the owner of the property and hers is the only name on the Chanot? Without her written Power of Attorney to her mother or anyone else, whatever the mother and the Puyay Baan have agreed to with a potential buyer of the property, has no legal binding for your wife.

The "contract" is also of no concern for her for the above reason. That someone has paid 200.000 THB to her mother for something she has no legal control over, is their concern, not yours or your wife's. A 10% non-refundable deposit is not uncommon but a fine of 10 times that in case the seller backs out, is not adequate! In any case this has nothing to do with either you or your wife. If your wife does not want to sell to this man, he can sue your mother in law and the Puyay Ban for the 2 mill provided the "contract" is binding on that part. Which also is doubtful as it concerns something your mother in law and the PB do not own.

If your wife wants to sell to the interested party, she must come home and take the deed with her. She then goes to the Land Office together with the buyer and the Office will change the name on the deed. If there are no mortgages registered on the back of the Chanote! There is a fee to be paid to the LO, I believe it is 2% of the purchase sum if your wife has owned the land more than 5 years. If not, it will be 2+3,3%. Then your wife and the buyer will go to the bank and the money will be paid and the Chanote given to the buyer. This is the normal procedure.

What else have been said here regarding mortgages and other things is irrelevant to you now. What would have been good for you to have done when your wife bought the land, was for you to register a usufruct on the land for your benefit. Then the land could not be sold without your consent. And also if you had a usufruct, you could have registered a mortgage as said earlier and then the land could not be sold before the outstanding loan was repaid.

You know this is the first bit of sense I have heard regards the sale of this land I agree with you 100%

G/F will get a bank draft in my name from the buyer (I hope) and she will hand over the deeds

G/F will lodge bank draft in my bank account in Thailand.

Pat :jap:

[newbepat]

Is there tax to pay when your selling land in Thailand? if so how much?

we own land for less than 5 years is that a problem?

Pat

[stgrhe]

Is there tax to pay when your selling land in Thailand? if so how much?

we own land for less than 5 years is that a problem?

Pat

If the property is sole within five years there is a 3% business tax in addition to the transfer fees.