Rubber Trees

[Mosha]

Just reading some commodity trading news, if you can believe any of these guys, but they say things are looking good for rubber next season. Some of the emerging economies are upping there rubber needs even if places like Japan see no growth.

Will be happy if the price stays over 100 Baht next season, may even be able to put some money in the bank. Jim

Let's hope the weather co-operates

[Mosha]

Trip into town this morning. Quite a few plots shut down for the leaf drop already. Amazing how a few miles makes a lot of difference. Most trees round here are 600 and 251 types.

[jamescollister]

Trip into town this morning. Quite a few plots shut down for the leaf drop already. Amazing how a few miles makes a lot of difference. Most trees round here are 600 and 251 types.

Yes a little distance makes a big difference. We will be going over to 1 on 1 off end of the week, then 1on 2 off, then no money. Trees will drop their leaves , but will not grow dark green until the rains come again.

As said, one day I want rain, next month please stop the rain. Jim

[jamescollister]

Sunday, I'm bored, no coconut watering, had to stay home and mind the kids.

Just sitting down for the first cold one of the day and thought I may as well write something on my quest for hot air rubber sheet drying.

It got me thinking, after I got the rolling machines working right and rubber was hung in the smoker shed to dry, everyone thought they had been hot air dried, but no heat had been applied.

First thing I learned was I had no idea of what it was all about, listening to what the locals said was as reliable as listening to my dog.

Thailand for much of the year has very high humidity, so high that at times the air can not absorb any more water. At night the air actually returns water to the sheet rubber and mold grows, bad sheet. Now even with the smoke house going the air is still moist and we would need to burn 1/2 of Thailands forests to keep the fires going 24/7.

Hot air drying has nothing to do with heat in the end, it's all about de humidifying the air. It makes no difference how you heat the shed as long as you get dry air. I also had the temperatures way too high, 38 degrees is the ideal.

The design really can be simple, as long as moisture can escape and the damp air can't get in. So the shed can be made of any thing with a few vents in the roof to allow the moist air out. I will go for concrete bricks, sheet iron and clear plastic roof. A few of those roof vents with cones over them, to keep the rain out.

Heating can be done by many means from gas hot air blower, if green, hot water pipes run through the shed, heated by solar. I on cost will go for the cheaper system, 5 /100 liter steel drums wielded together to for a tube and attached to a concrete ring outside of the shed, for the fire pit. beauty of this system, unlike smoking is you can burn anything, garbage, grass, plastic, if it burns and gives heat you can use it.

If you already smoke sheet, you would normally smoke it for 3 or 4 days before it is cured, a lot of wood. If you smoke for 24 hours then hot air dry the sheet will be graded as RSS grade 1.

Time for another cold one, so bye for now. Jim

[glennb6]

a run to the farm this morning to collect keeyang, some fields are barren of leaves, others just a touch of colored leaves, others none falling off. My farm is still not dropping but a very few leaves and output is still good. Later, on by the wife's plot and numerous farms had completely naked trees. scary looking naked. that followed stopping at mama's house to see if wife was there, and there sat mama sans top drying herself apparently after a bucket washing. she actually noticed my truck in front and hastily covered herself. there are moments for discression and respect for your 75yr old mother in laws saggy tits, but now upon the site of a naked tree i cannot get the other image out of my eyes. anyone have eyebleach?

[jamescollister]

a run to the farm this morning to collect keeyang, some fields are barren of leaves, others just a touch of colored leaves, others none falling off. My farm is still not dropping but a very few leaves and output is still good. Later, on by the wife's plot and numerous farms had completely naked trees. scary looking naked. that followed stopping at mama's house to see if wife was there, and there sat mama sans top drying herself apparently after a bucket washing. she actually noticed my truck in front and hastily covered herself. there are moments for discression and respect for your 75yr old mother in laws saggy tits, but now upon the site of a naked tree i cannot get the other image out of my eyes. anyone have eyebleach?

You want to live out here, some of the old women, bit touched may be walk around topless at times.

Better still some of the younger ones take bucket showers outside in plain view, unfortunately they wear tee shirts and boxer shorts, but still it's better than Thai TV. Jim

[glennb6]

Jim, on that thought of wet t-shirts on nubile young girls of the forest, you have achieved your 2000th post. Yea!

[Mosha]

Trip into town this morning. Quite a few plots shut down for the leaf drop already. Amazing how a few miles makes a lot of difference. Most trees round here are 600 and 251 types.

Yes a little distance makes a big difference. We will be going over to 1 on 1 off end of the week, then 1on 2 off, then no money. Trees will drop their leaves , but will not grow dark green until the rains come again.

As said, one day I want rain, next month please stop the rain. Jim

The plot next door, the leaves are all brown. I've said before, it's like looking at a patchwork quilt from a distance this time of year.

[jamescollister]

Trip into town this morning. Quite a few plots shut down for the leaf drop already. Amazing how a few miles makes a lot of difference. Most trees round here are 600 and 251 types.

Yes a little distance makes a big difference. We will be going over to 1 on 1 off end of the week, then 1on 2 off, then no money. Trees will drop their leaves , but will not grow dark green until the rains come again.

As said, one day I want rain, next month please stop the rain. Jim

The plot next door, the leaves are all brown. I've said before, it's like looking at a patchwork quilt from a distance this time of year.

It has a lot to do with the water table, here we have a mountain range and it takes a long time for the water to seep down, but it keeps the water table high. Even if the rains come late the trees will spring to life early. The top soil maybe hard and dry, but you don't have to dig too deep and the ground is moist. Even at the factory, 12 km away inland and flat land, rice country. Have a pond dug, deep.. The water level fell like a rock through lack of rain, the pond gets no lower, you can clearly see the damp clay line above the water level.

People are planting rubber, further and further away from the mountains here, their trees roots will never go deep enough to tap the water table, they have to live on rain fall alone. Issan is not really a good rain fall area.

Lesson to some, plant rubber where rubber likes and in Issan it likes the Mekong and the areas below the mountains. Jim

[cobbler]

Very cold last nite.We have very good flow .better than last year..Leaves have still only a few yellow..So still looking good for a while yet.3 weeks till end of January .So expect we will close some time in February..We started tapping 19th of March this year for this season.So on January 19 we will have been tapping for 10 months this season.MAy even get an 11 month season.All depends on the nuts on the trees.Sounds funny . Our RUBBERS have NUTS

[ClausGS]

Sunday, I'm bored, no coconut watering, had to stay home and mind the kids.

Just sitting down for the first cold one of the day and thought I may as well write something on my quest for hot air rubber sheet drying.

It got me thinking, after I got the rolling machines working right and rubber was hung in the smoker shed to dry, everyone thought they had been hot air dried, but no heat had been applied.

First thing I learned was I had no idea of what it was all about, listening to what the locals said was as reliable as listening to my dog.

Thailand for much of the year has very high humidity, so high that at times the air can not absorb any more water. At night the air actually returns water to the sheet rubber and mold grows, bad sheet. Now even with the smoke house going the air is still moist and we would need to burn 1/2 of Thailands forests to keep the fires going 24/7.

Hot air drying has nothing to do with heat in the end, it's all about de humidifying the air. It makes no difference how you heat the shed as long as you get dry air. I also had the temperatures way too high, 38 degrees is the ideal.

The design really can be simple, as long as moisture can escape and the damp air can't get in. So the shed can be made of any thing with a few vents in the roof to allow the moist air out. I will go for concrete bricks, sheet iron and clear plastic roof. A few of those roof vents with cones over them, to keep the rain out.

Heating can be done by many means from gas hot air blower, if green, hot water pipes run through the shed, heated by solar. I on cost will go for the cheaper system, 5 /100 liter steel drums wielded together to for a tube and attached to a concrete ring outside of the shed, for the fire pit. beauty of this system, unlike smoking is you can burn anything, garbage, grass, plastic, if it burns and gives heat you can use it.

If you already smoke sheet, you would normally smoke it for 3 or 4 days before it is cured, a lot of wood. If you smoke for 24 hours then hot air dry the sheet will be graded as RSS grade 1.

Time for another cold one, so bye for now. Jim

HI Jim

Have been working with wood all my life, i have a fair understanding of wood drying. To dry wood is very similar to dry rubber i guess. I here try to share some of the fundamentals of wood drying.

Wood contain water, that is unwanted as wood change shape / size when the water content change and if water content are too high it will mold, same as rubber. Water content in wood change when the air humidity around it change. Air Humidity (amount of water in air) change with temperature and available water in the area. The higher air temperature the higher amount of water air can contain.

So when we dry wood we always think about humidity and temperature. Sometimes we even add water to the air in the drying kiln as we don't want the wood to dry too fast as that will crack the wood.

The water in the wood simply goes into the dryer air, as air circulate around the wood surfaces, and this happen slowly over time, this is the same for rubber i guess. So the dryer air we can have in a rubber drying kiln the faster the rubber will dry. Now dry air can be created in many ways either by higher the temperature of the air or by removing water from the air with a de-humidifier, like some air conditioners have that function. In most wood drying kiln's hot air is the mean of getting the air dry.

So the rubber kiln have to have a source of heating in some way. here there are many ways, I would explore the possibility of solar heating in some way. Maybe have the roof made of glass. And have the possibility of hot water heating like a boiler, when the sun is off. (search on google for "Solar kiln")

Next we need to make sure that the hot air is well and even distributed trough out the whole drying kiln, this is very important to make sure that all rubber is dried evenly. This is best done by having internal fans that in some way circulate the air all the time tough out the whole drying process.

The drying kiln need to have the function to release the wet air and take in dry air. This can be done with shutter fans like the one thais use in the toilet, one could attache a timer to open and close it at desired intervals, as it is not needed to run all the time. The shutter fan's can be used to control temperature and humidity. For each shutter fan you will need to have a equal size shutter vent for the air to get in to the kiln. Shutter fan and shutter vent have to be placed away from each other so the wet air do not go into the kiln again. Also it is best to place the shutter fan in the top of the kiln as that is where the hottest air is. Here I strongly recommend that you make the kiln as air tight as possible, small gaps to be sealed with silicon. This is critical for the shutter fan to work correctly.

We will need to make sure that the rubber sheets are hanged with enough space between them so the air can circulate easily over the surface of the sheets. And we don't want to have uneven loading of the kiln as then the circulation air will only go where it is easiest to go, where there are less rubber sheets or any open space.

Drying time will depend on kiln temperature, the outside air humidity and thickness of the rubber sheet's, in the winter time where it is very dry, at least in the north part of Thailand, it will be faster compared to the wet season.

What i have described above are a smoke free drying setup. I am not sure if the smoke it self, from burning wood, have any direct effect on the rubber sheets other than making them darker color. Jim ?

Wood used for indoor furniture's will need to have a MAX water content of about 7 to 8 % that will keep the wood stable and prevent cracking in most indoor climates.

So for rubber drying we need to establish the desired water content, what i believe is 2 to 3 %, Jim?

And we need to be able to test the water content to make sure we have reached the desired water content, I suggest that you place some (2 to 3 small test sheets) in the kiln that we can make test on after the drying is finished, Jim you know how to test sheets for water content after drying ? (scale, force dry, scale)?

Below a simple sketch of a wood drying kiln to give you some ideas how it works.

As you can see the air circulation fan in the top of the kiln is placed over the inner roof, this fan will force the air to the left side of the kiln and force it trough the wood stacked up in the middle and back up to the fan on the right side of the kiln. you can see that baffles (cover panels) are places in the top and bottom to make sure the air not go over and under the wood stack's.

Hope this is useful info.

Claus

[ClausGS]

HI All

Just back from my visit to our yang plantation around loi et (Isan).

It is 5 year old trees. And they have about 35cm circumference.

Planting distance is 3 x 6 M

I feel that it will take a long time before they will be 50cm and ready to tap. Is this normal or ??? pleas give me your comments.

Claus

[Mosha]

5 years is a bit young to be worrying Claus, ours were about 6 and a few months before we tapped. 251 clones

[ClausGS]

5 years is a bit young to be worrying Claus, ours were about 6 and a few months before we tapped. 251 clones

HI

So how big was the tree's when you started to tap, I remember that the recommendation is MIN 50cm 1 M from the ground.??

Claus

[Mosha]

They'd have been about that, but I've seen some a lot smaller in this area being tapped. tbh I don't go near the trees much. Steep hill, and my right knee is buggered.

[jamescollister]

HI All

Just back from my visit to our yang plantation around loi et (Isan).

It is 5 year old trees. And they have about 35cm circumference.

Planting distance is 3 x 6 M

I feel that it will take a long time before they will be 50cm and ready to tap. Is this normal or ??? pleas give me your comments.

Claus

Good read about the wood drying, after I have had time to read it properly may have a few questions.

On the trees size thing, know people will cringe at this, but it was this or 2 or 3 more years at work.

The recommended size, Agriculture department was 46 cm, I couldn't wait, after all I am an Issan farmer and when I cut all ties with Australia, rubber would be my only income. Half way through the tapping season I went around all the plantations and marked trees to be opened, most were well under size, high 30s low 40s. told the tappers they could keep all the money for the rest of the season, but they were to tap gently, one on one off. At the first sign the trees was struggling, stop tapping.

Now as I have said, if you are not there, things will get done the Thai way, not how you have instructed. Had to go back to OZ to earn some money, left the FIL in charge, wife and kids or kid can't remember, were with me in OZ. Came back to find tappers had opened a lot more trees that were even smaller. Did my nut of course, but what should I have expected, they can make more money and I'm not there to say no. Everyone else [ Thai ] does it so they must be right, I'm a farang and know nothing.

Anyway 3 years down the track and by gentle tapping 2 on 1 off in the good times 1 on 1 off as the season slows and finish with 1 on 2 off at the end of the season. Not the Thai way, 3 on 1 off and continue to tap until the tree is bleed dry. Our trees have continued to grow, output goes up each year, if a tree looks like it's struggling, rest it for a year.

The recommended size for tapping is for Thai farmers, who neither fertilize properly, cut branches and in general take little care of the trees. Think we out produce the local plantations by a factor of 2. Today I have just put 5 big trees on rest for next season, they just didn't look healthy, been a very dry year and they are at the high point in that plantation.

Guess the moral of the story is know your trees, be on the ground to take care of them, tap on tree condition, not size. A big badly cared for tree will not produce as much as a small well care for tree.

My experience is if you tap gently, take care of the trees, rest if necessary, early tapping does not impede there growth. Was just out at a plantation,where I put the 5 trees on rest. The guy next door, who was tapping when we planted. Most of my trees are already bigger than his.

Of course the locals think I am using magic fertilizer. Take good care of your trees and they will take care of you. Jim

[cobbler]

HI All

Just back from my visit to our yang plantation around loi et (Isan).

It is 5 year old trees. And they have about 35cm circumference.

Planting distance is 3 x 6 M

I feel that it will take a long time before they will be 50cm and ready to tap. Is this normal or ??? pleas give me your comments.

Claus

No not long have another look tomorrow morning

[cobbler]

Clause,

You'll be surprised.your trees will be probably ready to tap next year,just be sure you put good fertilizer on them.50 cm is a good size.As Jim said he was there when his trees cut first opened.Big danger if care is not taken at this time.Especially if trees are too small because the bark is very thin at this age and size so easy to cut into the wood.Trees can end up <deleted>#&d for life and really stunt there growth from that time on.Try to be sure at time of very 1st tap you have experienced tappers as the worker can't see where the bark ends and the wood begins,Good luck in your area with this as people talk a lot of shit.However everybody else survives so I guess you will tooooooooo

Good luck

[ClausGS]

Clause,

You'll be surprised.your trees will be probably ready to tap next year,just be sure you put good fertilizer on them.50 cm is a good size.As Jim said he was there when his trees cut first opened.Big danger if care is not taken at this time.Especially if trees are too small because the bark is very thin at this age and size so easy to cut into the wood.Trees can end up <deleted>#&d for life and really stunt there growth from that time on.Try to be sure at time of very 1st tap you have experienced tappers as the worker can't see where the bark ends and the wood begins,Good luck in your area with this as people talk a lot of shit.However everybody else survives so I guess you will tooooooooo

Good luck

HI

So what you are saying is that most likely some of my tree's will reach 50cm next year some time. That sounds amazing, I expected my trees to reach 50cm at the age of 8 years. I will just have to wait and see.

Claus

[thaiguzzi]

A bit similar to Jim. Our first plot with 1850 trees opened out of 2200, anything over 45cms cut it, now 7.5/8 years old we have some 80cms!! We have some trees 48cms that produce better than 70cms. If a tree slows down, stop cutting it for that season. A years rest and off it goes again. On our 2nd plot of 540 trees from 740, where the wife cuts all of them alone, again could'nt wait and opened anything 40cms and over. They have grown well since. Do'nt just look at the diameter, but the size of the canopy and quality/colour of leaf. 6m between trees should be completely enclosed by the time they are 5.5 - 6 years old, mine were and we do 7m between trees. If you have good cutters, they will know when a tree is ready to tap 6 years and older just by looking/touching and cutting the bark.

Regards,

Mike.

ps 44.85 bt/kg at auction yesterday kee yang. But our first sale in excess of 1 ton. Been cold up here.

[Mosha]

Clause,

You'll be surprised.your trees will be probably ready to tap next year,just be sure you put good fertilizer on them.50 cm is a good size.As Jim said he was there when his trees cut first opened.Big danger if care is not taken at this time.Especially if trees are too small because the bark is very thin at this age and size so easy to cut into the wood.Trees can end up <deleted>#&d for life and really stunt there growth from that time on.Try to be sure at time of very 1st tap you have experienced tappers as the worker can't see where the bark ends and the wood begins,Good luck in your area with this as people talk a lot of shit.However everybody else survives so I guess you will tooooooooo

Good luck

HI

So what you are saying is that most likely some of my tree's will reach 50cm next year some time. That sounds amazing, I expected my trees to reach 50cm at the age of 8 years. I will just have to wait and see.

Claus

Jim's 1st paragraph

"The recommended size, Agriculture department was 46 cm, I couldn't wait, after all I am an Issan farmer and when I cut all ties with Australia, rubber would be my only income. Half way through the tapping season I went around all the plantations and marked trees to be opened, most were well under size, high 30s low 40s. told the tappers they could keep all the money for the rest of the season, but they were to tap gently, one on one off. At the first sign the trees was struggling, stop tapping."

So if you have good tappers, who can/will take care with the tapping. The 50cm or even 46 cm is not set in stone. As Cobbler has said before, you get a good tapper, you do your damndest to keep him/her.

[thoongfoned]

HI All

Just back from my visit to our yang plantation around loi et (Isan).

It is 5 year old trees. And they have about 35cm circumference.

Planting distance is 3 x 6 M

I feel that it will take a long time before they will be 50cm and ready to tap. Is this normal or ??? pleas give me your comments.

Claus

our trees the "better ones" tend to grow in girth 7-8cm per year, from about 3yrs onwards. i check each year.

just done an experiment on fertilizer/vits on the trees over the past 18 months trees are now 6.5yrs. only applyed pig poo, but in very large amounts. had the same growth rates as those treated with shop bought vits. will apply both from next year onwards as plan to open some trees up. the better trees around 15-20% are 50cm with the bulk of the trees coming in 35cm -45cm all at 1m from the ground. the spacing i went for is approx 3m x4m. since the trees have been three years old we have not spent to much on keeping the land "weed free" only cut back at the end of the rainy season and start of new rainy season, due mainly to keeping the costs down. oh we also have trees that are still in the 20cm- 30cm range, this is in a stoney area of land, but over the past year the canopy seem to be opening up so fingers crossed they might make it one day.

[jamescollister]

Claus, first you don't want any moisture content, totally dry if that is possible.

On the smoking side, it will heat the shed, but it is primary purpose is to cure the sheet for storage.

My problem is, my sheds are designed to be hot, clear roofed areas to allow direct sun light in, lots of brick work and steel to hold the heat. This time of year it is as dry as the Australian out back, can hang the sheets in the smoke sheds, they are hot without a need to burn wood. Rubber comes out as if it had been in a purpose build hot air shed.

Now my sheds are big, was going to be a rubber baron, sheds were built to smoke large volume. I only have a small volume, can't burn wood none stop. So we hang the sheet in the shed and about a week before we sell [once a month normally ] lite the fires for 3 days and smoke the sheet.

Problem is that in the wet season, even though the sheds are hot, the humidity is high and mold grows fast [bad rubber ] So I need a way to dry the sheet first, stopping mold growth until we smoke them. Ergo a small hot air shed using little fuel that is used daily.

Have to say never thought of the fan to circulate the air, good idea, will be putting it into the design.

Thanks for posting that, gives me food for thought. Jim

[ClausGS]

Claus, first you don't want any moisture content, totally dry if that is possible.

On the smoking side, it will heat the shed, but it is primary purpose is to cure the sheet for storage.

My problem is, my sheds are designed to be hot, clear roofed areas to allow direct sun light in, lots of brick work and steel to hold the heat. This time of year it is as dry as the Australian out back, can hang the sheets in the smoke sheds, they are hot without a need to burn wood. Rubber comes out as if it had been in a purpose build hot air shed.

Now my sheds are big, was going to be a rubber baron, sheds were built to smoke large volume. I only have a small volume, can't burn wood none stop. So we hang the sheet in the shed and about a week before we sell [once a month normally ] lite the fires for 3 days and smoke the sheet.

Problem is that in the wet season, even though the sheds are hot, the humidity is high and mold grows fast [bad rubber ] So I need a way to dry the sheet first, stopping mold growth until we smoke them. Ergo a small hot air shed using little fuel that is used daily.

Have to say never thought of the fan to circulate the air, good idea, will be putting it into the design.

Thanks for posting that, gives me food for thought. Jim

HI

Dry kiln.

100% dry air will never happen in a kiln, but you can come very near. First you need to make sure that your kiln is as air tight as possible, seal all gaps, have rubber profiles around the door frame, check the wall's and ceiling.

Then you will have to heat the air not with smoke or direct fire air,as smoke contains water (the water comes from the wood you burn). You will need to have some kind of heat exchange system. For hot water systems i have see people use heater core's with fan's like you have in cars to extract the hot air from the water into the air. For smoke systems (air systems) you need to let the smoke go trough long pip's that are placed inside the kiln and have fans blowing on them to extract the air. In the wet season hot air might not be enough as the air is too wet from the beginning. In that case I would try with 1 or more air conditioners that have the function of de-humidifier. There are industrial de-humidifier's available with different capacity. A de-humidifier will for sure solve your problem, but it is extremely important that your kiln is air tight. Have never tested this but my feeling tells me that with a de-humidifier you might not even need to heat the air at all only have the heating source from the glass roof.

Smoke

Jim do you really think you need to smoke your rubber sheets, is it not good enough to have the sheets dried to below 3% water?

You say that the smoke cure the sheets for storage, can the rubber sheets be cured without the smoke or?

Claus

[ClausGS]

Hi All

Thanks for all the useful info about tree size and first taping timing, I got a much better understanding of this part of rubber growing now. And good for me it looks like i don't need to wait 3 years more to start my first tapping. maybe 1 to 2 years. Thanks again guys.

Claus

[ClausGS]

Claus, first you don't want any moisture content, totally dry if that is possible.

On the smoking side, it will heat the shed, but it is primary purpose is to cure the sheet for storage.

My problem is, my sheds are designed to be hot, clear roofed areas to allow direct sun light in, lots of brick work and steel to hold the heat. This time of year it is as dry as the Australian out back, can hang the sheets in the smoke sheds, they are hot without a need to burn wood. Rubber comes out as if it had been in a purpose build hot air shed.

Now my sheds are big, was going to be a rubber baron, sheds were built to smoke large volume. I only have a small volume, can't burn wood none stop. So we hang the sheet in the shed and about a week before we sell [once a month normally ] lite the fires for 3 days and smoke the sheet.

Problem is that in the wet season, even though the sheds are hot, the humidity is high and mold grows fast [bad rubber ] So I need a way to dry the sheet first, stopping mold growth until we smoke them. Ergo a small hot air shed using little fuel that is used daily.

Have to say never thought of the fan to circulate the air, good idea, will be putting it into the design.

Thanks for posting that, gives me food for thought. Jim

HI

Dry kiln.

100% dry air will never happen in a kiln, but you can come very near. First you need to make sure that your kiln is as air tight as possible, seal all gaps, have rubber profiles around the door frame, check the wall's and ceiling.

Then you will have to heat the air not with smoke or direct fire air,as smoke contains water (the water comes from the wood you burn). You will need to have some kind of heat exchange system. For hot water systems i have see people use heater core's with fan's like you have in cars to extract the hot air from the water into the air. For smoke systems (air systems) you need to let the smoke go trough long pip's that are placed inside the kiln and have fans blowing on them to extract the air. In the wet season hot air might not be enough as the air is too wet from the beginning. In that case I would try with 1 or more air conditioners that have the function of de-humidifier. There are industrial de-humidifier's available with different capacity. A de-humidifier will for sure solve your problem, but it is extremely important that your kiln is air tight. Have never tested this but my feeling tells me that with a de-humidifier you might not even need to heat the air at all only have the heating source from the glass roof.

Smoke

Jim do you really think you need to smoke your rubber sheets, is it not good enough to have the sheets dried to below 3% water?

You say that the smoke cure the sheets for storage, can the rubber sheets be cured without the smoke or?

Claus

One more thing on the kiln, you said that you have used a lot of bricks and concrete, this 2 materials absorbs water from both inside and out side the kiln. That is unwanted as the water in the materials will go into the dry air in your kiln. Professional wood drying kilns are made of aluminum and EPS as isolation, non of this materials absorbs water. What you can do is to cover your inside brick and concrete walls with a thick layer of latex paint or roof sealer paint. That will stop the water coming in trough the walls. Wood that are stored for longer time after the final drying are stored in rooms like that, nearly 100% air tight. Or covered with plastic sheets.

Claus

[thaiguzzi]

Re my previous post, what i was trying to say was if people can wait, ie do'nt need the money, then by all means wait to 7 years/50 cms. But, if you can't wait and do need the money, cut at 6 years/42-45 cms. I needed the money, so could'nt wait, but i know my trees are good'uns.Theoretically, bigger gerth = longer cut = more latex, ie cutting third circumference on a 52cms tree compared to a 43cms tree will give you a 3 cm longer cut (52-43=9 divide by 3 = 3). As Jim says, our plantations out-produce all the locals, even trees 2-3 years older. And some of our "giants" - well nobody round here has got anything like them pre 10 years old.

Mike.

[SamBC]

HI all

Thanks for all your comments, very use full for me.

I know that you can not estimate ROI on rubber plantation to a very precise level, but i can at least get some ides where it could be at.

Just a crazy idea, maybe some of you have some comments on this.?

Would it be possible to have chickens running between the rubber trees???

I was thinking to have a smaller fence made in a smaller area of the rubber plantation. Could the chickens turn the weed into fertilizer.?, in this way no need to cut or deal with the weed problem, and at the same time the chicken shit will fertilize the soil what is good for the rubber trees. you could even sell or eat the chickens.

or will the chickens destroy the trees? if yes i could fence each tree.?

or maybe the locals will "borrow" some of my chickens from time to time.?

Claus

Claus

If you search youtube for Joel Salatin pastured poultry you will find some interesting videos on raising poultry in portable pens that might work.

[robin33]

My brother in law's girlfreind ..father has a rubber plant nursery they sells 3 month old plants.. (i have no financial relation with them).

they live near surin

http://suthep-rubbertrees.blogspot.nl/

I made a small website for them ( you already noticed that my enlish is not that good) but it;s the idea that counts

[jamescollister]

Claus, first you don't want any moisture content, totally dry if that is possible.

On the smoking side, it will heat the shed, but it is primary purpose is to cure the sheet for storage.

My problem is, my sheds are designed to be hot, clear roofed areas to allow direct sun light in, lots of brick work and steel to hold the heat. This time of year it is as dry as the Australian out back, can hang the sheets in the smoke sheds, they are hot without a need to burn wood. Rubber comes out as if it had been in a purpose build hot air shed.

Now my sheds are big, was going to be a rubber baron, sheds were built to smoke large volume. I only have a small volume, can't burn wood none stop. So we hang the sheet in the shed and about a week before we sell [once a month normally ] lite the fires for 3 days and smoke the sheet.

Problem is that in the wet season, even though the sheds are hot, the humidity is high and mold grows fast [bad rubber ] So I need a way to dry the sheet first, stopping mold growth until we smoke them. Ergo a small hot air shed using little fuel that is used daily.

Have to say never thought of the fan to circulate the air, good idea, will be putting it into the design.

Thanks for posting that, gives me food for thought. Jim

HI

Dry kiln.

100% dry air will never happen in a kiln, but you can come very near. First you need to make sure that your kiln is as air tight as possible, seal all gaps, have rubber profiles around the door frame, check the wall's and ceiling.

Then you will have to heat the air not with smoke or direct fire air,as smoke contains water (the water comes from the wood you burn). You will need to have some kind of heat exchange system. For hot water systems i have see people use heater core's with fan's like you have in cars to extract the hot air from the water into the air. For smoke systems (air systems) you need to let the smoke go trough long pip's that are placed inside the kiln and have fans blowing on them to extract the air. In the wet season hot air might not be enough as the air is too wet from the beginning. In that case I would try with 1 or more air conditioners that have the function of de-humidifier. There are industrial de-humidifier's available with different capacity. A de-humidifier will for sure solve your problem, but it is extremely important that your kiln is air tight. Have never tested this but my feeling tells me that with a de-humidifier you might not even need to heat the air at all only have the heating source from the glass roof.

Smoke

Jim do you really think you need to smoke your rubber sheets, is it not good enough to have the sheets dried to below 3% water?

You say that the smoke cure the sheets for storage, can the rubber sheets be cured without the smoke or?

Claus

You do give me food for thought, never thought about sealing the interior brick work to stop osmosis.

As to smoking, out here it makes no difference, smoked, air dried or sun dried, if it's good they pay grade 3 RSS price, but in our hay day we had people coming up to buy grade one sheet. We were buying other peoples latex, making RSS and they were paying over the top for the good stuff. That was when I was going to be a rubber baron, sad to say didn't make rubber baron, got to Issan rubber farmer instead.

It's all a learning curve and thanks to people like you, who are from different environments, your knowledge can be transferred into another field. Jim