SomTumTiger Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I have looked into Jatupon's future, and I see lots of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pomeloseed Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I think freedom of speech is rather good in Thailand. Certainly, compared to most of its neighbors, and to Asia in general (particularly China and PRK and Burma) Thailand's freedom of speech is quite fair. Letters published in Bangkok's two main Eng.lang newspapers saying almost anything. One indication of free speech, is how much satire is allowed to be aired. On that level, the US is as fair or fairer than any other country. Just listen to what's said on US radio and TV shows (and print media), and you'll see that essentially nothing is banned. Any and all public figures can be parodied with no restrictions. That's the polar opposite to free speech restrictions in dozens of other countries. Thailand is somewhere in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frodo Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 "Chatuporn, who was mentioned by several globally renowned professors as being Thailand's most potent and skilled political speaker, was taken into custody and sent to jail yesterday, for alledged lese majeste offenses. Depending on the Thai courts, with a reputation of serving the Thai establishment, Chatuporn could be shut of the Thai election campaign. The Thai DSI, known also as the Thai FBI, brought the charges on Chatuporn to the court, after the Thai military chief, Prayuth, called on the Thai FBI to crackdown on Chatuporn's alledged lese majeste." More here: http://thaiintellige...te-allegations/ from that article; Chatuporn is a key figure of the Pheu Thai Party and a leader of the Red Shirts-which is mainly Thailand's strongest combination in trying to bring democracy, liberty, justice and human rights to Thailand. not at all biased towards reds then...............? "The main leader, Jatuporn Promphan, served as secretary in the ministry of natural resources and environment in the Thaksin government and, in 2003, he and other officials ordered more than 1000 police to retake a large tract of land in the south, which had been taken over by poor farmers. They accused the government of leasing the land to big palm oil producers instead of redistributing it to the farmers. Jatuporn then defended the police action, saying the protesters were "armed" and "broke the law". Jatuporn a true defender of human rights and justice for the poor. Thai Turmoil Was No Class War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netfan Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Jatuporn is in jail. The fact that he was given so much slack for so long, and the fact that he wasn't impeached speaks volumes about just how far "free speech" is tolerated in Thailand. Freedom of speech isn't tolerated in Thailand that far.What surprises me is that some foreigners apparently relish the prospect of laws, themselves in need of updating, being abused and exploited for political purposes.The argument goes I suppose the law is the law, and must be respected.That's true but when a law is wicked and absurd, such as the example of South African apartheid, it is unseemly for foreigners to exult in its implementation. I understand that since Thaksin has compared himself to Nelson Mandela you would want to bring up SA, so are Thaksin, jatuporn and the rest men of such conviction that they are willing to spend the next 27 years in prison to show the world they are right? Doesn't really sound like Jatuporn is, and Thaksin won't come home until his sister is PM. What a pitiful crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timekeeper Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 "Chatuporn, who was mentioned by several globally renowned professors as being Thailand's most potent and skilled political speaker, was taken into custody and sent to jail yesterday, for alledged lese majeste offenses. Depending on the Thai courts, with a reputation of serving the Thai establishment, Chatuporn could be shut of the Thai election campaign. The Thai DSI, known also as the Thai FBI, brought the charges on Chatuporn to the court, after the Thai military chief, Prayuth, called on the Thai FBI to crackdown on Chatuporn's alledged lese majeste." More here: http://thaiintellige...te-allegations/ from that article; Chatuporn is a key figure of the Pheu Thai Party and a leader of the Red Shirts-which is mainly Thailand's strongest combination in trying to bring democracy, liberty, justice and human rights to Thailand. not at all biased towards reds then...............? "The main leader, Jatuporn Promphan, served as secretary in the ministry of natural resources and environment in the Thaksin government and, in 2003, he and other officials ordered more than 1000 police to retake a large tract of land in the south, which had been taken over by poor farmers. They accused the government of leasing the land to big palm oil producers instead of redistributing it to the farmers. Jatuporn then defended the police action, saying the protesters were "armed" and "broke the law". Jatuporn a true defender of human rights and justice for the poor. Thai Turmoil Was No Class War what a great article Frodo, thanks for posting that...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 Jatuporn's sleepless first night in jail By The Nation Red-shirt leader Jatuporn Promphan had a sleepless night due to stress caused by his first experience inside remand cell, Bangkok Remand Prison chief Sophon Thitithampruek said on Friday. "Jatuporn appears stressful just like other first-time remand prisoners," he said. Sophon said Jatuporn did not seek nor receive any privileges. Due to longweekend, the visitation hour will resume on Wednesday, he added. -- The Nation 2011-05-13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xangsamhua Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Jatuporn is in jail. The fact that he was given so much slack for so long, and the fact that he wasn't impeached speaks volumes about just how far "free speech" is tolerated in Thailand. Freedom of speech isn't tolerated in Thailand that far.What surprises me is that some foreigners apparently relish the prospect of laws, themselves in need of updating, being abused and exploited for political purposes.The argument goes I suppose the law is the law, and must be respected.That's true but when a law is wicked and absurd, such as the example of South African apartheid, it is unseemly for foreigners to exult in its implementation. Well said. Jatuporn might be a loudmouth and a yahoo, but the laws under which he and others have been incarcerated would be unacceptable to anyone who respects freedom of speech. I understand the laws' intent, but have seen over the years how they're misused. Freedom of speech is also undermined in democratic countries via "vilification" laws of various kinds, also in the name of social harmony and the need to protect it. That doesn't justify the amount and depth of censorship that takes place in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 what a great article Frodo, thanks for posting that...... It is a good article though Bertil's expertise is really in Burma, and a number of strands are left in the air. It's ironic that it contains parts that the military cheerleaders would object to if I posted under my name: "On one side, the traditional elite consisting of the old Sino-Thai plutocracy that for years have enjoyed a symbiotic and mutually beneficial relationship with the military, bureaucracy and monarchy — and the new nouveau-riche elite that began to emerge during the Vietnam War era, when the economy took off and culminated in the boom of the 1980s" My own view is that what's happening in Thailand is not a class war, but there are elements of one.The term "class war" is actually really inadequate as it suggests some Marxist agenda.I think it's much more like the rise of the British Labour party.This is not necessarily what the Thaksin leadership wanted at all but the Thai majority has been catalysed, and as Khun Pleum twittered the other day it is no longer bewitched by the elite. Again the study of history repays dividends, not a popular idea with some on this forum who haven't even familiarised themselves with Thai history in the last few decades.Nevertheless if one looks at almost any social movement or revolution, it almost always changes shape or is even hijacked by other forces.A fascinating example of this was the Singaporean anti-colonial movement dominated by communists, and "hi jacked" by Lee Kwan Yew.The French Revolution is another classic example of how a political movement shape shifts.And of course most revolutions famously end by eating their own children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) 'animatic' timestamp='1305171756' post='4418091' Well light the torches and rampage, the mouth is silenced. Hard to believe, but then again he knew no sense of moderation and hung himself on his own petard. So one other, Nisit wit, goes with him, and so far other less vitreous voices are still free. Will this be the good excuse for reds to go over the edge? If so then most Thais will notice and vote accordingly. This thread will no doubt fill up to the brim with New Members.... and all with similar lines of... ac cc chemmm, thought. Where did you go to school? Probably also a question of: When did you go to school? Or how many decades ago? Always read, always study, always learn. No point in stopping. How can one post generate so many responses? I thought Mr "ableguy" was making a sarcastic comment on animatic's howler: "hung himself on his own petard" - a badly remembered phrase which has nothing to do with ropes or being hung. But, as animatic says, "Always read, always study, always learn". So, just for you, animatic: http://en.wikipedia....s_own_petard.22 Thanks. I was using two available meanings. The Shakespearian quote slightly modified Hung for Hoisted and it's intended meaning of getting blow up by your own plan. And the archaic latin french origine to 'break wind' AKA fart or expel odorous gas. Since much of Jatuporns verbal output, stinks up the place, and he has hung himself out to dry for the election season, blown his plans asunder with his own words. Several levels of irony I suspect he wouldn't grasp completely. petard— n 1.(formerly) a device containing explosives used to breach a wall, doors, etc 2. hoist with one's own petard being the victim of one's own schemes 3.a type of explosive firework [C16: from French: firework, from péter to break wind, from Latin pēdere ] . Yes, interesting that my mix of metaphors has raised such comment. Edited May 13, 2011 by animatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pomeloseed Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 "The main leader, Jatuporn Promphan, served as secretary in the ministry of natural resources and environment in the Thaksin government It would be interesting to know what the Jatupon did for the environment. Maybe he once put a water reducer on a garden hose to save water usage. Thaksin was abysmal at implementing any useful environment policies, and I can't imagine big mouth Jatupon being any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) "Chatuporn, who was mentioned by several globally renowned professors as being Thailand‘s most potent and skilled political speaker, was taken into custody and sent to jail yesterday, for alledged lese majeste offenses. Depending on the Thai courts, with a reputation of serving the Thai establishment, Chatuporn could be shut of the Thai election campaign. The Thai DSI, known also as the Thai FBI, brought the charges on Chatuporn to the court, after the Thai military chief, Prayuth, called on the Thai FBI to crackdown on Chatuporn’s alledged lese majeste." More here: http://<URL Automatically Removed>/2011/05/13/political-news-globally-renowned-for-rousing-thai-politician-taken-out-of-election-campaign-for-lese-majeste-allegations/ funny name/byline for the writer of the above piece By Ranger, Thai Intel’s political journalist I noticed he (presuming the machismo of a blogger name's like "Ranger" is a he) didn't identify specifically which "globally renowned professors" heaped their praise of Jatuporn, but it's just as well, as I'm sure they would prefer to remain anonymous, the same apparently true also for the anonymous writer. . Edited May 13, 2011 by Buchholz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAMSOBAD Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) Jatuporn was up all night. He had stress. He now knows that Thaksin through him under the bus while Thaksins sister gets to ride in the limo. Fifty cellmates were up all night also...<snip> Edited May 13, 2011 by soundman Removed derogatory remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who, me ? Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Jatuporn's sleepless first night in jail By The Nation Red-shirt leader Jatuporn Promphan had a sleepless night due to stress caused by his first experience inside remand cell, Bangkok Remand Prison chief Sophon Thitithampruek said on Friday. "Jatuporn appears stressful just like other first-time remand prisoners," he said. Sophon said Jatuporn did not seek nor receive any privileges. Due to longweekend, the visitation hour will resume on Wednesday, he added. -- The Nation 2011-05-13 I am not going to feel bad for him. Sure it is a big change after the 5 stars hotel he enjoyed during the protest last year, while the poor were sleeping on the street...Serves him right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lite Beer Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Another post discussing the Monarchy has been deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
councilor Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Jatuporn is in jail. The fact that he was given so much slack for so long, and the fact that he wasn't impeached speaks volumes about just how far "free speech" is tolerated in Thailand. Freedom of speech isn't tolerated in Thailand that far.What surprises me is that some foreigners apparently relish the prospect of laws, themselves in need of updating, being abused and exploited for political purposes.The argument goes I suppose the law is the law, and must be respected.That's true but when a law is wicked and absurd, such as the example of South African apartheid, it is unseemly for foreigners to exult in its implementation. agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Jatuporn is in jail. The fact that he was given so much slack for so long, and the fact that he wasn't impeached speaks volumes about just how far "free speech" is tolerated in Thailand. Freedom of speech isn't tolerated in Thailand that far.What surprises me is that some foreigners apparently relish the prospect of laws, themselves in need of updating, being abused and exploited for political purposes.The argument goes I suppose the law is the law, and must be respected.That's true but when a law is wicked and absurd, such as the example of South African apartheid, it is unseemly for foreigners to exult in its implementation. agree On the other hand, Thailand is a democracy, and IMHO it would be impossible to find enough thais willing to support revoking the lese majeste laws to make it worth while attempting. I havn't heard any calls for change, other than the french based anti-monarchist, not that that means there havn't been any. Whether foreigners exult or not is superfluous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I think freedom of speech is rather good in Thailand. Certainly, compared to most of its neighbors, and to Asia in general (particularly China and PRK and Burma) Thailand's freedom of speech is quite fair. Letters published in Bangkok's two main Eng.lang newspapers saying almost anything. One indication of free speech, is how much satire is allowed to be aired. On that level, the US is as fair or fairer than any other country. Just listen to what's said on US radio and TV shows (and print media), and you'll see that essentially nothing is banned. Any and all public figures can be parodied with no restrictions. That's the polar opposite to free speech restrictions in dozens of other countries. Thailand is somewhere in between. Is your comment a 'satirical' one too? I mean here in Thailand is one guy in jail now because of a speech and just before the coming elections. Should he be happy that The Nation published your letters to the editor or that the USA is fairer than any other country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 On the other hand, Thailand is a democracy, and IMHO it would be impossible to find enough thais willing to support revoking the lese majeste laws to make it worth while attempting. I havn't heard any calls for change, other than the french based anti-monarchist, not that that means there havn't been any. Whether foreigners exult or not is superfluous. Wrong in so many ways it's necessary to enumerate. 1.Democracy in Thailand is work in progress.Elections take place certainly but the infrastructure supporting democracy is missing or partly missing. 2.The lese majeste laws, and more particularly their abuse is a significant part of why Thailand's democracy is deficient 3.What Thais now believe on this subject is a matter of much speculation.However since it is illegal for them to talk openly, your assumption must be treated with a degree of scepticism. 4.Apart from left wing ideologues, I am not aware that any serious politician/organisation has called for abolition, simply much needed reform 5.It is the stated policy of the current government headed by PM Abhisit to reform the law, and curb its exploitation. 6.If you are not aware for calls for change, you cannot have been listening very hard (although it's fair to say it's probable most Thais have less interest in the subject than the extremists on both sides). 7.The enthusiasm with which some transient foreigners embrace absurd and repressive laws is not an inspiring spectacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdoom6996 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 ็็Jatuporn caused so much trouble to the society. He never learn to compromise nor listen to other reasoning. He can have some times to review his past deed/ karma behind bars now. Only your personal opinion. Not mine. My personal opinion; Asa hit the nail on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) Corruption is the significant reason Thailands Democracy is so poor. It is also the major reason Thailand poor are so poor. Lese Majesty laws, and direct political attacks based on them can easily be avoided, don't talk badly about the monarchy. It really is very simple. Some people are compelled to risk this. That is their own look out. Jatuporn had the option of not denigrating the monarchy in a public space. Jatuporn was told this was one of the things he could not do if he wanted to avoid jail. Jatuporn ignored both the laws, his bail conditions and common sense. Jatuporn is sleepless in jail. Som nam na! Just a prawn eaten by bigger fish, after leaving the shelter of his MP immunity bolt hole. Edited May 13, 2011 by animatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 Red-shirt Leader Stressful in Prison The Bangkok Remand Prison says a red-shirt core figure who is being jailed after his bail was revoked looks stressful and does not want to have a meal. Bangkok Remand Prison Commander Sophon Thitithampruek said red-shirt key figure Chatuporn Prompan is greatly stressful and suffering anorexia, but prison officials believe the inmate will be able to adapt to a new living condition like other fellow prisoners. The commander went on to say Chatuporn and another red-shirt leader Nisit Sinthuphrai seemed to understood the rules of the prison very well as they both were once detained. Sophon added both prisoners are allowed to wear personal shorts, but they must switch to prisoner uniform when showing up at the court. The pair will be detained at the first section of the prison for a couple of weeks before being separated to different zones. They will be allowed to meet visitors from May 18 and for only 20 minutes each day. -- Tan Network 2011-05-13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 Red-shirt Group Urged to Respect Court Ruling against Leader The deputy prime minister in charge of security affairs believes the Pheu Thai Party would not gain more votes on sympathy over the bail revocation for red-shirt leader and Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Prompan while urging the red-shirt group to respect the court's ruling. Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban expected the court's ruling on bail revocation for Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Prompan to have no effects on the planned red-shirt rally to mark the first anniversary of the military crackdown on the protests at Ratchaprasong Intersection on May 19. He called on the group to respect the decision by the court and said if the opposition Pheu Thai Party wants to legitimately win the upcoming election, the red-shirt group should not come out to pressure the court as it will adversely affect the party. Suthep went on to say that he believed Jatuporn would not gain more sympathy votes since the public now have more sympathy for the country. As for Jatuporn's remark about violence during the election, he said Jatuporn always exaggerates things. Asked about the Pheu Thai Party's plan to name deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's younger sister, Yingluck, as its number-one MP candidate in the party-list system, Suthep said the plan does not bring any concern to the Democrat Party. He added Thaksin can return to Thailand at any time, but he has to face corruption charges pending against him. -- Tan Network 2011-05-13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdimension Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Due to longweekend, the visitation hour will resume on Wednesday, he added. It seems that some people are eager to see the new gorilla at the zoo. Maybe it'll be a big hit like the pandas in Chiang Mai zoo... or maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Corruption is the significant reason Thailands Democracy is so poor. It is also the major reason Thailand poor are so poor. Lese Majesty laws, and direct political attacks based on them can easily be avoided, don't talk badly about the monarchy. It really is very simple. Your analysis is flawed.Corruption is not the main reason that Thailand's democracy is defective: the main reason is the lack of development of the requisite social and legal infrastructure - independent judiciary, rule of law etc.Furthermore your suggestion that Thailand's poor are poor because of corruption is simply wrong.Thailand has become richer and more corrupt at the same time - like China, Indonesia,Malaysia etc.The linkage you suggest may be there for sub Saharan Africa doesn't apply in this region. Your comments on lese majeste are outlandish.Very few, except a few eccentrics, make attacks on the monarchy.The issue is not the monarchy but outmoded laws, which Abhisit has stated should be reformed.The other parallel issue is the obscene exploitation of these laws for political advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdimension Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Suthep went on to say that he believed Jatuporn would not gain more sympathy votes since the public now have more sympathy for the country. This incident is more likely to reduce support for Pheu Thai and Thaksin in the same way that Chavalit and others dropped their support, which is good news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) Red-shirt Leader Stressful in Prison hmmm...he looked pretty stress-free when he went in. Thai Rath newspaper http://www.thairath.co.th/content/pol/171193 The Bangkok Remand Prison says a red-shirt core figure who is being jailed after his bail was revoked looks stressful and does not want to have a meal. ahhhh... Jatuporn is already enrolled into the Bank Remand Prison's Obesity Reduction Program. Well done. and not a moment too soon... Edited June 27, 2011 by metisdead Photo posted in copyright violation removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 from the post above Bangkok Remand Prison Commander Sophon Thitithampruek said red-shirt key figure Chatuporn Prompan is greatly stressful and suffering anorexia, but prison officials believe the inmate will be able to adapt to a new living condition like other fellow prisoners. Anorexia ---- after a day? WOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Jatuporn is in jail. The fact that he was given so much slack for so long, and the fact that he wasn't impeached speaks volumes about just how far "free speech" is tolerated in Thailand. Freedom of speech isn't tolerated in Thailand that far.What surprises me is that some foreigners apparently relish the prospect of laws, themselves in need of updating, being abused and exploited for political purposes.The argument goes I suppose the law is the law, and must be respected.That's true but when a law is wicked and absurd, such as the example of South African apartheid, it is unseemly for foreigners to exult in its implementation. agree ah .... another specious comparison. This is in no way similar to apartheid. The law itself isn't "wicked" nor "absurd", Posters that forget that the offensive statements were enough to drive PTP stalwarts into resigning but then think it is the law that is the issue are obviously biased. The bail revocation in this case is not based on the LM laws (the charges placed against Jatuporn in this case under the LM laws appear to be valid, but the courts will decide that later!) This time the bail was revoked for incitement. Thailand has tolerated extremes of freedom of speech, such as speeches by Jatuporn and other red leaders calling for the burning of the capitol and the death of individuals. They are charged with terrorism over those excesses in thinking tht anything they said would be covered, when obviously there is no right to incite riots/violence covered under freedom of speech laws. as for out new oneliner poster .... ... I note that of 21 posts to date only 12 are visible .... and "agree" doesn't give other posters much to comment on other than ... "with what?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idiotduvillage Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Abhisit and his masters can jail as many people as they want ahead of the elections, it will not prevent the inevitable from happening . He is a goner . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timekeeper Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Abhisit and his masters can jail as many people as they want ahead of the elections, it will not prevent the inevitable from happening . He is a goner . welcome red newbie, back as a re-run? or a genuine newcomer who wanted to wave a red flag? either way, i see you have dived straight in to the political fray and ignored the hundreds of other fascinating non political posts on Thaivisa welcome anyway, you have made it clear in your first post, why you are here.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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