lomatopo Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 That she considered DSK to be a risk of fleeing says something about her (limited) judgement and not realizing that a man with his stature would NOT flee (his wife was already on the way to NY from Paris as told to the judge), risking about everything he has and stands for. Yes, unlike your avatar which eats shoots and leaves, Monsieur (allegedly) shoots, eats and leaves. I assume that, even with out a passport, he would just jaunt to the Consulat général de France à New York and claim immunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Here an interesting article from 6 Dec 2009: IMF head 'threatens' Nicolas Sarkozy over 'dirty tricks campaign' http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/6744229/IMF-head-threatens-Nicolas-Sarkozy-over-dirty-tricks-campaign.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) A RAPIST is someone who raped (women/woman/girl) and he never raped anyone. LaoPo Might as well throw out the case then, as long as you're sure I'm not the one to judge that; as far as the records show, he never raped anyone and was never convicted; that's what counts. If he's guilty in NYC is up to the further investigations and eventual trial but the whole case stinks, worldwide. So far, NOTHING is published about the accusing woman...NOTHING. Why not? LaoPo Since when have they published details of the alleged victim before a Grand Jury has even heard the case ? What do you want - her name telephone number and address ? Because, normally, the (tabloids also) press is right on top of not only the accused but also the accuser. Not in this story. LaoPo Edited May 17, 2011 by LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 In the case of sexual assault (and some other crimes), the press is prohibited from giving out the name or identifying information about a victim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
churchill Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 No one knows if the IMF director is guilty of sexual assault—and by dragging him through the mud, politicians and the press are committing gross acts of injustice, says French philosopher Bernard-Henri Lévy. http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-16/bernard-henri-lvy-the-dominique-strauss-kahn-i-know/full/# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 In the case of sexual assault (and some other crimes), the press is prohibited from giving out the name or identifying information about a victim. As I thought (and as should be). I'm still wondering why Lao Po feels it should be any different (and what his response would be to any of my other points). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Of course, the case should be investigated. No, I don't think that a top-level person like DSK should be treated "like any other suspect". For example, he needs special treatment, be it only to ensure his safety from possible assassination attempts. Then there is all the public interest that needs to be dealt with. Third, I really do think the case smells a bit strange. I wouldn't be surprised if the police really does find DNA evidence. But how to be sure if the evidence is from the alleged lunchtime assault or if it stems from the night before, as well as the the marks on his chest? This would be the perfect political trap: to prove his innocence he would have to confess to sexual escapades with a black room maid. This would bury all his hopes to become the next French president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 Here an interesting article from 6 Dec 2009: IMF head 'threatens' Nicolas Sarkozy over 'dirty tricks campaign' http://www.telegraph...s-campaign.html Political France and France's press is full of dirty tricks, surpassing many other countries. maybe even the US and the UK. That's why it wouldn't surprise me at all if this was an arranged dirty trick set-up; too many French links in this case in New York with a French speaking maid. If it would have been in Quebec/Canada, ala...but NY ? LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 No one knows if the IMF director is guilty of sexual assault—and by dragging him through the mud, politicians and the press are committing gross acts of injustice, says French philosopher Bernard-Henri Lévy. http://www.thedailyb...n-i-know/full/# Freedom of the press means you don't get to choose what gets reported and if a prominent individual gets accused of a crime like this, it's news. That's the only difference between every other person who is accused of a crime and who winds up in the news before his guilt or innocence should be established -- it's bigger news. So we are back to saying that the rule should be different -- and more advantageous -- for this guy because he is who he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 In the case of sexual assault (and some other crimes), the press is prohibited from giving out the name or identifying information about a victim. The NY Press always stick to that prohibition ? I recall dirty sexual cases whereby the tabloids deliver all the details and juicy sauces on their front pages...or is that incorrect? LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantuzi Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 In the case of sexual assault (and some other crimes), the press is prohibited from giving out the name or identifying information about a victim. This is in some utopian countries.They have published already interviews with victims friends,gave location of her house,and provided more info if you are so interested. police adjusted timing of incident as well,now it is noon. All this story stinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Here an interesting article from 6 Dec 2009: IMF head 'threatens' Nicolas Sarkozy over 'dirty tricks campaign' http://www.telegraph...s-campaign.html Political France and France's press is full of dirty tricks, surpassing many other countries. maybe even the US and the UK. That's why it wouldn't surprise me at all if this was an arranged dirty trick set-up; too many French links in this case in New York with a French speaking maid. If it would have been in Quebec/Canada, ala...but NY ? LaoPo Yes, everyone knows how remote and uncosmopolitan NYC is -- what chance of someone from the 4 or 5 dozen different countries that use French (top 10 langauges in the world for usage) working there? Next to none, surely. Maybe it is a dirty trick. Nonetheless, you are proposing that things should be done differently for this one person (apparently) because of the mere possibility that it might be. The law can't and shouldn't work like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 In the case of sexual assault (and some other crimes), the press is prohibited from giving out the name or identifying information about a victim. The NY Press always stick to that prohibition ? I recall dirty sexual cases whereby the tabloids deliver all the details and juicy sauces on their front pages...or is that incorrect? LaoPo So do you think the NY press is part of this French conspiracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 That she considered DSK to be a risk of fleeing says something about her (limited) judgement and not realizing that a man with his stature would NOT flee (his wife was already on the way to NY from Paris as told to the judge), risking about everything he has and stands for. Yeah sure, as if he didn't risk it all with this (and other) alleged and confessed acts many times already. Says to me good call judge. "Alleged"..correct, but enlighten me with your "confessed acts many times" by DSK. I'm all eyes and ears. And, about the judge: a Female judge who shouts "hit her" about a person in her court room is....quite special, wouldn't you agree ? LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 In the case of sexual assault (and some other crimes), the press is prohibited from giving out the name or identifying information about a victim. The NY Press always stick to that prohibition ? I recall dirty sexual cases whereby the tabloids deliver all the details and juicy sauces on their front pages...or is that incorrect? LaoPo So do you think the NY press is part of this French conspiracy? No, not that I know of. LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
churchill Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) No one knows if the IMF director is guilty of sexual assault—and by dragging him through the mud, politicians and the press are committing gross acts of injustice, says French philosopher Bernard-Henri Lévy. http://www.thedailyb...n-i-know/full/# Freedom of the press means you don't get to choose what gets reported and if a prominent individual gets accused of a crime like this, it's news. That's the only difference between every other person who is accused of a crime and who winds up in the news before his guilt or innocence should be established -- it's bigger news. So we are back to saying that the rule should be different -- and more advantageous -- for this guy because he is who he is. I think rules should be different in some way , perhaps giving courts , police etc time to establish a few basic facts before it is front page news - After all if he is now proven to be innocent will he ever recover / and if this is a set up whatever the outcome - He has lost ? and as head of the IMF there is some money involved ???/ Edited May 17, 2011 by churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think rules should be different in some way , perhaps giving courts , police etc to establish a few basic facts before it is front page news - After all if he is now proven to be innocent will he never recover That is in fundamental opposition to democracy and the principles on which the justice system is supposed to be based. If such protection for his reputation and career is provided for him, then it should be for everybody. What about if it happened to me or you? Why is our reputation and career not protected first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 In the case of sexual assault (and some other crimes), the press is prohibited from giving out the name or identifying information about a victim. As I thought (and as should be). I'm still wondering why Lao Po feels it should be any different (and what his response would be to any of my other points). I answered that question already; look it up if you want. But, to make it more comfortable: He should NOT be treated any different but with some more respect and dignity, other than the show-off whereby a man of his magnitude of 62 yrs was handcuffed between two police officers in front of hundreds of journalists and cameras and reporters as if he was a convicted criminal. Oh, I know, this is America, but exactly that show-off could have been prevented by a call from hi up since it was absolutely unneccessary. Imagine a hi-so American ex-president, vice president or other hi-so, arrested in London, Frankfurt, Paris, Tokyo, Sydney......arrested, handcuffed and shown off as a dirty "alleged" criminal for the rest of the world. America would be too small to handle the outrage. But, Europe and even Asia are too civilized to "handle" such a hi-so American the same way as the NY police did to the Frenchman who's still not guilty until proven. LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 Of course, the case should be investigated. No, I don't think that a top-level person like DSK should be treated "like any other suspect". For example, he needs special treatment, be it only to ensure his safety from possible assassination attempts. Then there is all the public interest that needs to be dealt with. Third, I really do think the case smells a bit strange. I wouldn't be surprised if the police really does find DNA evidence. But how to be sure if the evidence is from the alleged lunchtime assault or if it stems from the night before, as well as the the marks on his chest? This would be the perfect political trap: to prove his innocence he would have to confess to sexual escapades with a black room maid. This would bury all his hopes to become the next French president. Even if he's innocent, that hope has faded away. His careers are over. ONLY.......but only in the case this turns out to be a huge dirty set-up trick by his political opponent(s) in France he could benefit but I doubt it. LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 In the case of sexual assault (and some other crimes), the press is prohibited from giving out the name or identifying information about a victim. The NY Press always stick to that prohibition ? I recall dirty sexual cases whereby the tabloids deliver all the details and juicy sauces on their front pages...or is that incorrect? LaoPo So do you think the NY press is part of this French conspiracy? No, not that I know of. LaoPo So that's just another complaint - the charges are trumped up, the justice system is (deliberately) doing things the wrong way -- because he's someone special and should be treated as such -- and the NY press is not breaking a rule that you think normally would and feel they should be? And it seems to me that you originally conflated this silence about the victim with your claims that there was skullduggery afoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 In the case of sexual assault (and some other crimes), the press is prohibited from giving out the name or identifying information about a victim. This is in some utopian countries.They have published already interviews with victims friends,gave location of her house,and provided more info if you are so interested. police adjusted timing of incident as well,now it is noon. All this story stinks. Any links for us? LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 So that's just another complaint - the charges are trumped up, the justice system is (deliberately) doing things the wrong way -- because he's someone special and should be treated as such -- and the NY press is not breaking a rule that you think normally would and feel they should be? And it seems to me that you originally conflated this silence about the victim with your claims that there was skullduggery afoot. If I have to believe another poster the NY press is breaking the rules (if there are any rules that a victim's name is prohibited from publishing; I don't know) that's history. LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 About the risk of flight: Article 15 of the French Code Civil opens the possibility for any French citizen to be judged by a French court. Until recently this was not a possibility is was a right, but the French Court of Cassation revised this article's interpretation, shifting it from being a citizen's right, to, in fact, a right of the French courts to refuse taking up the case (which I think is quite scandalous). Of course, to exercise this right, the suspect has to successfully reach French territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
churchill Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think rules should be different in some way , perhaps giving courts , police etc to establish a few basic facts before it is front page news - After all if he is now proven to be innocent will he never recover That is in fundamental opposition to democracy and the principles on which the justice system is supposed to be based. If such protection for his reputation and career is provided for him, then it should be for everybody. What about if it happened to me or you? Why is our reputation and career not protected first? i don't know about you - But I would not be on the front pages -and So my reputation and career would be protected until proven guilty / Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 In the case of sexual assault (and some other crimes), the press is prohibited from giving out the name or identifying information about a victim. As I thought (and as should be). I'm still wondering why Lao Po feels it should be any different (and what his response would be to any of my other points). I answered that question already; look it up if you want. But, to make it more comfortable: He should NOT be treated any different but with some more respect and dignity, other than the show-off whereby a man of his magnitude of 62 yrs was handcuffed between two police officers in front of hundreds of journalists and cameras and reporters as if he was a convicted criminal. Oh, I know, this is America, but exactly that show-off could have been prevented by a call from hi up since it was absolutely unneccessary. Imagine a hi-so American ex-president, vice president or other hi-so, arrested in London, Frankfurt, Paris, Tokyo, Sydney......arrested, handcuffed and shown off as a dirty "alleged" criminal for the rest of the world. America would be too small to handle the outrage. But, Europe and even Asia are too civilized to "handle" such a hi-so American the same way as the NY police did to the Frenchman who's still not guilty until proven. LaoPo If you can't provide a post # for me, I think I'll just take your word for it and apologize rather than try and dig it up...can't be bothered at the moment. Imagine a hi-so American ex-president, vice president or other hi-so, arrested in London, Frankfurt, Paris, Tokyo, Sydney......arrested, handcuffed and shown off as a dirty "alleged" criminal for the rest of the world. I can't speak for the entire country but I personally would never ask that a "Hi So" from my country be above anyone's law or get special treatment (A Head of State? maybe, in some contexts) and I wouldn't take it for graneted that it has to happen. Everybody is an alleged criminal when they are charged with a crime. That can't be helped. Nor can the worldwide interest. But, Europe and even Asia are too civilized to "handle" such a hi-so American the same way as the NY police did to the Frenchman who's still not guilty until proven. Wow, You're funny. "Too civilized". Yep, clearly that's the problem -- Americans aren't civilized enough (what happened to the conspiracy? Apparently being too civilized means framing a man for rape and ruining his life and career...) He is indeed innocent until proven otherwise. That fact isn't in contention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedFxTrade Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think he was just getting some practice in, before he went to Mondays meeting to rape European tax payers. Its a total joke IMO...A champagne socialist, flying first class and staying in $3000 a night rooms at the expense of tax payers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 So that's just another complaint - the charges are trumped up, the justice system is (deliberately) doing things the wrong way -- because he's someone special and should be treated as such -- and the NY press is not breaking a rule that you think normally would and feel they should be? And it seems to me that you originally conflated this silence about the victim with your claims that there was skullduggery afoot. If I have to believe another poster the NY press is breaking the rules (if there are any rules that a victim's name is prohibited from publishing; I don't know) that's history. LaoPo Ah, so you should be pleased about that. (Going by your previous posts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think rules should be different in some way , perhaps giving courts , police etc to establish a few basic facts before it is front page news - After all if he is now proven to be innocent will he never recover That is in fundamental opposition to democracy and the principles on which the justice system is supposed to be based. If such protection for his reputation and career is provided for him, then it should be for everybody. What about if it happened to me or you? Why is our reputation and career not protected first? i don't know about you - But I would not be on the front pages -and So my reputation and career would be protected until proven guilty / If you were a previously "respectable" member of a community, I bet it would be news in that community.+ In any case, we come back to it -- different rules for the wealthy and powerful than for you and me. No thanks. + Anyone ever read "Bonfire of the Vanities"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) Of course, the case should be investigated. No, I don't think that a top-level person like DSK should be treated "like any other suspect". For example, he needs special treatment, be it only to ensure his safety from possible assassination attempts. Then there is all the public interest that needs to be dealt with. Third, I really do think the case smells a bit strange. I wouldn't be surprised if the police really does find DNA evidence. But how to be sure if the evidence is from the alleged lunchtime assault or if it stems from the night before, as well as the the marks on his chest? This would be the perfect political trap: to prove his innocence he would have to confess to sexual escapades with a black room maid. This would bury all his hopes to become the next French president. Even if he's innocent, that hope has faded away. His careers are over. ONLY.......but only in the case this turns out to be a huge dirty set-up trick by his political opponent(s) in France he could benefit but I doubt it. LaoPo Such a setup wouldn't be huge at all, that's what got me thinking. If DSK could come out of this clean (i.e. no confession of wild nights with the maid necessary), I wouldn't think his future is completely over in France. His approval rating would probably take a small hit, but France's public opinion functions a bit differently from prudist USA, and the election is next year. Edited May 17, 2011 by manarak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
churchill Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think he was just getting some practice in, before he went to Mondays meeting to rape European tax payers. Its a total joke IMO...A champagne socialist, flying first class and staying in $3000 a night rooms at the expense of tax payers. I agree ... but apparently , so " they " say ' on this occasion ' he was paying his own expenses - AND he can afford whatever he pleases so why .....?? >> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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