Westerners Are Too Soft

[dressedingreen]

I read in another thread that the poster believed many Thai women think westerners are (too) soft, compared (I guess) to Thai men. And that they (the Thai women) take advantage of this character trait.

How do others react to this? Do you think the premise is true? And if you believe it is, do you also think Thai women take advantage of it?

DIG

[473geo]

The man makes his decision, what he bases that decision on is entirely under his control. Who can take advantage?

[SteeleJoe]

If I recall correctly the post you speak of struck me as being highly unlikely to be true (I seem to recall he claimed to have spoken to many thai womenwho had told him this):

In my decades of many, many casual lengthy conversations, friendships, and close relationships with Thai women (and with fluency in Thai throughout) I've not heard this with the sort of frequency and universality that he claimed. Nor do I think it likely that the guy spoke to many Thai women - if any -- on the subject. (I recollect the comment appeared to me to be simply an effort to bolster a position he was arguing).

I have, however, heard many a Thai women speak with much disdain for a certain kind of westerner who allows himself to be ridiculously manipulated and mistreated by some Thai women (in some cases the very women who were speaking to me on the subject -- and who often were otherwise people whom I had much regard for).

[IanForbes]

Too soft in what way? Soft physically or soft mentally? I believe that many bar girls think they can manipulate western men in ways that they can't manipulate Thai men. They understand that many western men (myself included) suffer from the well known "White Knight" syndrome. We want to help that poor little woman suffering from the injustices of the world. Not that there AREN'T injustices in the world, and that the women don't need helping, but at what point does it change from being "charity" to the man being a sucker?

Too many posters here think anything you do in the way of helping Thai women (bar girls or not) makes you a sucker. I'm not going to try arguing that point because there are too many different individual cases to come to any final conclusion.

It's a well known fact that many young Thai men follow the "love em and leave em" practise. They spread their seed everywhere with no concern for the consequences and very few young men wear condoms. Evidence of that are all the young Thai mothers with no husband and no means of support for their child. In North America, a woman can go after the father of her child for support. That is not the case in Thailand, and, that is the prime reason for all the prostitution. Thai authorities don't think it's their concern that Thai men take responsibility for leaving a trail of pregnant women behind.

[473geo]

One of the interesting things about Thai women is that they apply pressure knowingly or unknowingly because if they think you have money they will ask. The onus is then on the man, yes, and everybody is happy, no, and why do you not want to help me.

I often remember Thai women I knew explaining, I not take, I only ask, if he give ok, if not give no problem. This is true, as Ian says the white knight syndrome can cut in and the man says yes.

[KRS1]

One of the interesting things about Thai women is that they apply pressure knowingly or unknowingly because if they think you have money they will ask. The onus is then on the man, yes, and everybody is happy, no, and why do you not want to help me.

I often remember Thai women I knew explaining, I not take, I only ask, if he give ok, if not give no problem. This is true, as Ian says the white knight syndrome can cut in and the man says yes.

Ah, the white night. I learned to kill that fool before he even gets on the horse.

[IanForbes]

One of the interesting things about Thai women is that they apply pressure knowingly or unknowingly because if they think you have money they will ask. The onus is then on the man, yes, and everybody is happy, no, and why do you not want to help me.

I often remember Thai women I knew explaining, I not take, I only ask, if he give ok, if not give no problem. This is true, as Ian says the white knight syndrome can cut in and the man says yes.

Ah, the white night. I learned to kill that fool before he even gets on the horse.

Well, there always were people willing to stab others in the back for price.

[regine]

It's a well known fact that many young Thai men follow the "love em and leave em" practise. They spread their seed everywhere with no concern for the consequences and very few young men wear condoms. Evidence of that are all the young Thai mothers with no husband and no means of support for their child. In North America, a woman can go after the father of her child for support. That is not the case in Thailand, and, that is the prime reason for all the prostitution. Thai authorities don't think it's their concern that Thai men take responsibility for leaving a trail of pregnant women behind.

Well known to who? All the idiots we have here on TV that seem to pull so called "evidence" about Thai men from their a$?

I mean, are all you that thick or is it just the company you choose to keep? How is the above comment not offensive to Thai men and people with male Thai partners?!?!

All these posts are the same. Foreign men trying to justify their existence in LOS. Thais, men and woman alike, don't need you here. They really don't.

[CallumW]

If by soft you mean more polite, considerate, better mannered and less selfish then I would agree (overall not every Westerner fits that picture, although most of the ones I have met living up country do)

[regine]

If by soft you mean more polite, considerate, better mannered and less selfish then I would agree (overall not every Westerner fits that picture, although most of the ones I have met living up country do)

I would like to know how a post like this isn't considered derogatory. Ridiculous.

[Kilgore Trout]

It's a well known fact that many young Thai men follow the "love em and leave em" practise. They spread their seed everywhere with no concern for the consequences and very few young men wear condoms. Evidence of that are all the young Thai mothers with no husband and no means of support for their child. In North America, a woman can go after the father of her child for support. That is not the case in Thailand, and, that is the prime reason for all the prostitution. Thai authorities don't think it's their concern that Thai men take responsibility for leaving a trail of pregnant women behind.

Well known to who? All the idiots we have here on TV that seem to pull so called "evidence" about Thai men from their a$?

I mean, are all you that thick or is it just the company you choose to keep? How is the above comment not offensive to Thai men and people with male Thai partners?!?!

All these posts are the same. Foreign men trying to justify their existence in LOS. Thais, men and woman alike, don't need you here. They really don't.

Perhaps you are dismissing "empirical" evidence.

Perhaps you should start a poll, but it is common knowledge here that if a man impregnates a girl and has no intention of marrying/supporting the family he will dissapear and nothing will be done by any authorities to force support.

In most cases I am aware where there is divorce; the man stays well away from his kids and they are not accepted in his family.

Not saying people in the west wouldn't do it if they could get away with it; hence strict child support laws and enforcement.

[DP25]

Well known to who? All the idiots we have here on TV that seem to pull so called "evidence" about Thai men from their a$?

The evidence isn't pulled from their ass, it's pulled from the mouth of the prostitute they're paying who spews bull to keep the money coming

[jackr]

In North America, a woman can go after the father of her child for support. That is not the case in Thailand, and, that is the prime reason for all the prostitution.

The prime reason for 'all the prostitution' in Muang Thai is lack of money (and education), period, whether these women have kids or no.

If by soft you mean more polite, considerate, better mannered and less selfish then I would agree (overall not every Westerner fits that picture, although most of the ones I have met living up country do)

I would like to know how a post like this isn't considered derogatory. Ridiculous.

Don't you just love the truth.

[regine]

Perhaps you are dismissing "empirical" evidence.

In order to be empirical evidence it has to be objective, which it is clearly not.

[jackdawson]

"westerners are (too) soft"

true .

many / most farang in thailand are at least pom pui (overweight) if not uh one (fat) ; i mean , look at the size of those beer bellies

whereas thai guys r generally (much) more fit

[StreetCowboy]

If by soft you mean more polite, considerate, better mannered and less selfish then I would agree (overall not every Westerner fits that picture, although most of the ones I have met living up country do)

I would like to know how a post like this isn't considered derogatory. Ridiculous.

I suppose, because it is not in bold or capitals, and doesn't end with abuse.

To call someone, or a group of people, polite and well-mannered is scarcely derogatory, but it lets you draw your own derogatory inferences. Perhaps the moderators may have deleted too much when they were censoring your brain.

Maybe your brain is unmoderated - suddenly, panic spreads throughout the land!

SC

[regine]

To call someone, or a group of people, polite and well-mannered is scarcely derogatory, but it lets you draw your own derogatory inferences. Perhaps the moderators may have deleted too much when they were censoring your brain.

Maybe your brain is unmoderated - suddenly, panic spreads throughout the land!

SC

Are you being serious? Because if you are your post is rather daft.

CallumW was saying that western men were "more polite, considerate, better mannered and less selfish' compared to Thai men.

Is this not disparaging?

Do you know the definition of derogatory or did you just not read the post properly?

Edited May 23, 2011 by regine

[StreetCowboy]

To call someone, or a group of people, polite and well-mannered is scarcely derogatory, but it lets you draw your own derogatory inferences. Perhaps the moderators may have deleted too much when they were censoring your brain.

Maybe your brain is unmoderated - suddenly, panic spreads throughout the land!

SC

Are you being serious? Because if you are your post is rather daft.

CallumW was saying that western men were "more polite, considerate, better mannered and less selfish' compared to Thai men.

Is this not disparaging?

Do you know the definition of derogatory or did you just not read the post properly?

I don't think he mentioned any second group. He just talked about Westerners.

Inevitably, when any two samples are drawn, they will differ in some properties; one sample will be, on average, heavier, one sample will drink more, one sample will have longer pinkie-nails, more body hair, less propensity top baldness etc. To say that one group has longer pinkie-nails is not to disparage the pinkie-nails of the other group. It is actually possible to compare and contrast without being disparaging, and to set standards that are even higher than the excellence achieved by one's neighbours, without calling into question their adequacy.

In a recent game of rugby, Leinster were the better team and scored more points; that is in no way to disparage Northampton, who may arguably be the second-best team in Europe.

SC

[cmsally]

Too soft in what way? Soft physically or soft mentally? I believe that many bar girls think they can manipulate western men in ways that they can't manipulate Thai men. They understand that many western men (myself included) suffer from the well known "White Knight" syndrome. We want to help that poor little woman suffering from the injustices of the world. Not that there AREN'T injustices in the world, and that the women don't need helping, but at what point does it change from being "charity" to the man being a sucker?

Too many posters here think anything you do in the way of helping Thai women (bar girls or not) makes you a sucker. I'm not going to try arguing that point because there are too many different individual cases to come to any final conclusion.

It's a well known fact that many young Thai men follow the "love em and leave em" practise. They spread their seed everywhere with no concern for the consequences and very few young men wear condoms. Evidence of that are all the young Thai mothers with no husband and no means of support for their child. In North America, a woman can go after the father of her child for support. That is not the case in Thailand, and, that is the prime reason for all the prostitution. Thai authorities don't think it's their concern that Thai men take responsibility for leaving a trail of pregnant women behind.

I think some of you guys are giving the girls way too much benefit of the doubt. Its way more complex and disparate than that. Just off the cuff I can think of dozens of family cases where for sure some girls have been left holding the baby, but just as many where the husbands have taken total responsibility. One case where even the father and the mother disappeared leaving the grandparents to bring up the child. Both parents totally disappeared. Other cases where girls have moved in and got pregnant on purpose to catch a husband.

In a lot of cases its marriages that don't work out but it also stems from lack of education and some pretty weird illogical thinking. One of my housekeepers nieces has 6 children by 6 fathers and she looks after none of them. It's getting past the stage where you can blame the guys!

[regine]

I don't think he mentioned any second group. He just talked about Westerners.

The OP did, and he was replying to the OP.

Do you seriously believe that he was not talking about Thai men?

The OP is asking people if they think that Western men are more "soft" compared to Thai men.

The OP was fine, within forum guidelines, the pejorative responses are not.

[Rooo]

Choices:

Either bring some civility back or I will close the topic.

There Was an article in the National papers a while ago addressing the exact same subject & the government taking steps to get the people involved to take responsibility.This was also discussed from memory in the news section.

So this topic is nothing new.

[anothertorres]

i can end this thread now and we don't need to endure any more pain. the answer is... yes. all western men are too soft. all thai men are too hard.

close.

[regine]

Choices:

Either bring some civility back or I will close the topic.

There Was an article in the National papers a while ago addressing the exact same subject & the government taking steps to get the people involved to take responsibility.This was also discussed from memory in the news section.

So this topic is nothing new.

The subject (the OP) is on the topic of men being "soft" ie. sentimental, not on Thai mens' child rearing responsibilities (or apparent lack thereof by some accounts), condom use, manners, etc.

[Thaddeus]

You can compare apples with oranges, without defaming either.

[StreetCowboy]

Choices:

Either bring some civility back or I will close the topic.

There Was an article in the National papers a while ago addressing the exact same subject & the government taking steps to get the people involved to take responsibility.This was also discussed from memory in the news section.

So this topic is nothing new.

The subject (the OP) is on the topic of men being "soft" ie. sentimental, not on Thai mens' child rearing responsibilities (or apparent lack thereof by some accounts), condom use, manners, etc.

I think some people like to talk around an issue, and consider the environment in which the issue occurs.

I think a lot of Westerners are sympathetic to the plight of single mothers, of whom there seem a disproportionate number in Thailand; though of course that is skewed by our sampling techniques.

It was suggested that Western men were seen as a 'soft touch' in comparison to the alternatives, and then there was a little discussion on some of those related topics, based on the anecdotal experience of the participants.

To my mind, other than one or two bold statements which verged on shouting, and one or two mildly abusive dismissive exclamations, it has been a relatively civil discussion, in comparison to most in this forum.

Anyway, since there seems no-one offering the alternative view point that Western men are not soft (perhaps too soft) (presumably meaning sympathetic, kind-hearted and easily influenced) then perhaps the discussion has run its course and will gradually slip down the Recent Topics board

SC

[IanForbes]

It's a well known fact that many young Thai men follow the "love em and leave em" practise. They spread their seed everywhere with no concern for the consequences and very few young men wear condoms. Evidence of that are all the young Thai mothers with no husband and no means of support for their child. In North America, a woman can go after the father of her child for support. That is not the case in Thailand, and, that is the prime reason for all the prostitution. Thai authorities don't think it's their concern that Thai men take responsibility for leaving a trail of pregnant women behind.

Well known to who? All the idiots we have here on TV that seem to pull so called "evidence" about Thai men from their a$?

I mean, are all you that thick or is it just the company you choose to keep? How is the above comment not offensive to Thai men and people with male Thai partners?!?!

All these posts are the same. Foreign men trying to justify their existence in LOS. Thais, men and woman alike, don't need you here. They really don't.

I said "many" not "all" Thai men. I speak only from experience over the past 15 years of coming to Thailand. To deny what I said is sticking your head in the sand. I personally know of at least 40 such cases in Thailand alone. It happens within the poor communities of all countries, but some countries have taken measures to control it to some degree.

In North America we have laws that make fathers of children financially responsible for the children whether they have actually fathered those children or not. That means if you marry or just live with a woman who already has children then you are financially responsible for those children until they become adults... and it doesn't matter if the birth father of the children is already sending support to the mother.

Thailand does NOT have laws making the fathers of children responsible for their children, and that is a shame. Any man can leave a pregnant girl or his wife and children behind and nothing is done about it. I would hazard a guess that 80% or more of the prostitutes working in Thailand are unmarried mothers. Of course, that is not the only reason behind the problem... if you want to call it a problem. It's actually a valuable service industry. Poverty and laziness is another answer. An attractive young woman can make more money selling her body for a few hours a week than she can working at any one of the thousand menial jobs for 200 baht a day. That includes the Mai nois of wealthy Thai men. The farang portion is only a small part of the prostitution trade.

[Kwasaki]

It's a well known fact that many young Thai men follow the "love em and leave em" practise. They spread their seed everywhere with no concern for the consequences and very few young men wear condoms. Evidence of that are all the young Thai mothers with no husband and no means of support for their child. In North America, a woman can go after the father of her child for support. That is not the case in Thailand, and, that is the prime reason for all the prostitution. Thai authorities don't think it's their concern that Thai men take responsibility for leaving a trail of pregnant women behind.

Well known to who? All the idiots we have here on TV that seem to pull so called "evidence" about Thai men from their a$?

I mean, are all you that thick or is it just the company you choose to keep? How is the above comment not offensive to Thai men and people with male Thai partners?!?!

All these posts are the same. Foreign men trying to justify their existence in LOS. Thais, men and woman alike, don't need you here. They really don't.

Well said, there are many on here who think they know everything about everything and keep playing the my country card.

This is Thailand it's none of a foreigners or alien's business.

[krangeek]

It's a well known fact that many young Thai men follow the "love em and leave em" practise. They spread their seed everywhere with no concern for the consequences and very few young men wear condoms. Evidence of that are all the young Thai mothers with no husband and no means of support for their child. In North America, a woman can go after the father of her child for support. That is not the case in Thailand, and, that is the prime reason for all the prostitution. Thai authorities don't think it's their concern that Thai men take responsibility for leaving a trail of pregnant women behind.

'It's a well known fact' on expat forums, regularly trolled out by old fat western guys to justify their taking advantage of a plethora (some new on the block, some been around more and therefore more cynical) of poor women/boys.

I personally know of at least one good looking young Thai guy who took on not only a Thai woman 10 years his senior, but her four kids too.

And one of the reasons for this country's bewildering array of sexual services is precisely because you and your ilk constantly attempt to assuage your guilt by trotting out this very old chestnut, much akin to pertinent parts of your er, anatomy.

I would suggest you peel your arse off that bar stool in Soi Cowboy and stop relying on the deluded alcoholic ramblings that pass for information on Thai culture on, no, wait, ha ha, expat bloody forums!

Edited May 23, 2011 by krangeek

[Kwasaki]

It's a well known fact that many young Thai men follow the "love em and leave em" practise. They spread their seed everywhere with no concern for the consequences and very few young men wear condoms. Evidence of that are all the young Thai mothers with no husband and no means of support for their child. In North America, a woman can go after the father of her child for support. That is not the case in Thailand, and, that is the prime reason for all the prostitution. Thai authorities don't think it's their concern that Thai men take responsibility for leaving a trail of pregnant women behind.

'It's a well known fact' on expat forums, regularly trolled out by old fat western guys to justify their taking advantage of a plethora (some new on the block, some been around more and therefore more cynical) of poor women/boys.

I personally know of at least one good looking young Thai guy who took on not only a Thai woman 10 years his senior, but her four kids too.

And one of the reasons for this country's bewildering array of sexual services is precisely because you and your ilk constantly attempt to assuage your guilt by trotting out this very old chestnut, much akin to pertinent parts of your er, anatomy.

I would suggest you peel your arse off that bar stool in Soi Cowboy and stop relying on the deluded alcoholic ramblings that pass for information on Thai culture on, no, wait, ha ha, expat bloody forums!

+ 1

[RusticCharm]

How is the above comment not offensive to Thai men and people with male Thai partners?!?!

I would like to know how a post like this isn't considered derogatory. Ridiculous.

'

Is this not disparaging?

Offensive'? 'Derogatory'? 'Disparaging'? Do get off your politically-correct soapbox, dear. What next? Playing the race card? This is a forum with many differing opinions. Even (surprise,surprise!) ones that don't tally with your overly-opinionated hysteria.

I take it from your posts that you are a white woman with a male Thai partner?     Figures!

The OP was fine, within forum guidelines, the pejorative responses are not.

Sorry but who made you mod?