Thaksin Says Sister May Not Become PM Even If Pheu Thai Wins

[samurai]

If you still don't know why I - and the mods before me - pulled you up on your manners, there isn't much help I can offer. In reply to my given personal stance on the flaws of democracy, you were waiting for the "third stooge expert" to come up with a given false quote. This suggests that I, and one before me, made a quote which was not made. As I said above, that was naughty and, if I'd have done it, I would have apologised in retrospect as soon as I realised I had made a mistake. I would not have done so intentionally - I am above that.

I don't know what your academic history is, but I have a BA in Classics (not Classical Studies but Classics, as in studying original Greek and Roman texts and art and providing commentary) from a pretty good university, so I don't know if pulling me up on Plato is the best idea. Besides that, it has no relevance to the discussion!

Ahh, okay. It wasn't my intention to imply that you would argue with that false quote.

You got that wrong and mistake my comment.

Plato's philosopher kings is a political concept. Opposed to democracy. Its a concept of an ideal state where the rulers are these philosopher kings. Men with the highest wisdom and knowledge who will do the best and take care for everyone.

And some flaws of democracy Plato described similar like the both of you.

Platons Politeia/The Republic. You read that in modern translation and not in the old languages.

It is political science 101. a basic text and the foundation of all that the western world tralala.

If you want let only smart people vote, i would not let vote you if you don't know that text. (and Poppers answer to it.)

Edited May 24, 2011 by samurai

[anterian]

here we go again, pistols at dawn

What we say, think or write has absolutely no affect on Thai thinking. What a Thai government decides may affect us but we have no say in the matter. the only way we can vote is with our feet. hating or loving Thaksin, red shirts, PAD etc is pointless, like mosquitoes they are part of Thailand.

[samurai]

Okay Thaksins goal is " to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress." if that is so essential for you you should it put in your signature.

Whatever k. Thaksin's goal may be, I have never said nor indicated that his goals are essential to me. Your conclusion is faulty. Maybe you should put up a signature. I wouldn't presume to suggest what you should put there though

Oh my conclusion was based on your faulty assumption that I somehow try "to diminish the value of an article I (/you) don't like."

What value? And now it isn't essential for you. That is not very consistent. IMHO.

[rubl]

Okay Thaksins goal is " to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress." if that is so essential for you you should it put in your signature.

Whatever k. Thaksin's goal may be, I have never said nor indicated that his goals are essential to me. Your conclusion is faulty. Maybe you should put up a signature. I wouldn't presume to suggest what you should put there though

Oh my conclusion was based on your faulty assumption that I somehow try "to diminish the value of an article I (/you) don't like."

What value? And now it isn't essential for you. That is not very consistent. IMHO.

Even if my assumption that you didn't like the 'democracy is not my goal approach' article and tried to diminish it's value is wrong, I still didn't say whether or not I liked any in it myself. To draw the conclusion that it might be essential to me is therefor not based on information but pure conjuncture of your own thoughts.

At least you are consistent is zigzagging along anything said or asked here

[Pi Sek]

If you still don't know why I - and the mods before me - pulled you up on your manners, there isn't much help I can offer. In reply to my given personal stance on the flaws of democracy, you were waiting for the "third stooge expert" to come up with a given false quote. This suggests that I, and one before me, made a quote which was not made. As I said above, that was naughty and, if I'd have done it, I would have apologised in retrospect as soon as I realised I had made a mistake. I would not have done so intentionally - I am above that.

I don't know what your academic history is, but I have a BA in Classics (not Classical Studies but Classics, as in studying original Greek and Roman texts and art and providing commentary) from a pretty good university, so I don't know if pulling me up on Plato is the best idea. Besides that, it has no relevance to the discussion!

Ahh, okay. It wasn't my intention to imply that you would argue with that false quote.

You got that wrong and mistake my comment.

Plato's philosopher kings is a political concept. Opposed to democracy. Its a concept of an ideal state where the rulers are these philosopher kings. Men with the highest wisdom and knowledge who will do the best and take care for everyone.

And some flaws of democracy Plato described similar like the both of you.

Platons Politeia/The Republic. You read that in modern translation and not in the old languages.

It is political science 101. a basic text and the foundation of all that the western world tralala.

If you want let only smart people vote, i would not let vote you if you don't know that text. (and Poppers answer to it.)

A typical Red public speaker (thank goodness not all Reds are like that)... "Ahh, okay. It wasn't my intention to imply that you would argue with that false quote. You got that wrong and mistake my comment." Never your own fault... and in no way would an apology be forthcoming.

Again, you really shouldn't pull me up on Plato. I have studied him extensively as part of my degree (it was one of my 12 chosen modules in my degree and I focused most on the Republic, the Crito and the Apologia). The fact that you claim "You read that in modern translation and not in the old languages" really kills your own argument - I read it in ancient Greek and translated it line-by-line, with several other translations to use as reference. The Penguin version commonly used by my academic contemporaries in politics, literature and history is certainly the most accessible but it is nowhere near the most accurate to what was written, so their understanding of it is not quite as good as mine, as I had the benefit of reading what was written rather than what the translator decided he meant.

This doesn't change the fact that the concept of philosphical kings has no bearing on our current discussion. Nobody is asking for them, not even the PAD these days. (FYI, Athens was previously administrated by a 12-man oligarchy, whom Plato's mentor Socrates criticised all the time in favour of an as-yet-unestablished popular democracy. Socrates' death actually started democracy off, and Plato lived within its earliest years - so it is of no surprise that he could find "holes" in it.)

Your last line confuses me - are you now saying that the uninformed don't deserve a vote (which makes a U-turn against every post you've made on this thread) or that I am not smart (meaning that, unless I have misunderstood your English, you are trolling again)?

Anyway, it looks like the only way to deal with this verbal exchange is to not respond to you, as it holds similarities to talking to a wall. As far as I can see (possibly because of my own stupidity), you are arguing for the sake of arguing so I'll save the mods the hassle and stop. I'll invite you to do the same.

[PoorSucker]

P.S. in political science 101, you read it in translation.

Political science 101 makes you a expert nowadays? :lol:

[TAWP]

Perhaps the whole Thai election system needs to be reformed? I heard the Democrats talk about that a few months ago, that the PM should be elected by the popular vote, instead of the MP's electing the PM. It works well in most countries around the world, why not in Thailand? It would surely kill the argument that the majority didn't get their voices heard But I guess they dropped that idea after they found out that the majority of Thais don't support the Democrats.

I am not sure what reality you live in, but in most countries that has a PM the PM is NOT directly elected by the people. That position is called 'president'.

And that includes all the nations with highest democracy index-results in thew world (go back some threads and find the list).

Everyone lives in a little reality of its own. And we are here in Thailand.

I think the talk is about this proposal

Voters should elect the PM, academic says

But nobody feels ever really positive about the ideas of the leading academic Prof Sombat Thamrongthanyawong

Frankly, only a moron would propose a PM to be directly elected.

Partially for the cost of the election process that it would entail and partially because it would alter the system we currently have into a republic as the end-station. But alas that is what some red revolutionaries want...

[jdinasia]

At least you are consistent is zigzagging along anything said or asked here

I see. for the future please don't become one of these posters who insists that I have to answer any of their posts devoted to me.

I will do that only do when I am very bored.

Feel free to think of yourself as the WINNER. You have to much wit for me.

Good idea --- you have managed to make a pretty short list of mine --- though I assume with more folks joining the "cause" until well after the elections it will be getting longer. Buh Bye.

[ianbaggie]

What an amazing country Thailand is! A man who was convicted on criminal charges can dictate the person he wants to be the priminister. Police and public officials get away

He can't.

He IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks to the BOUGHT population

[rubl]

At least you are consistent is zigzagging along anything said or asked here

I see. for the future please don't become one of these posters who insists that I have to answer any of their posts devoted to me.

I will do that only do when I am very bored.

Feel free to think of yourself as the WINNER. You have to much wit for me.

Thanks for the explanation, young warrior. Your ego seems as big as your questions are less intelligent. Till now I didn't see any post devoted to you, and I fear you may also get less and less replies. Still feel free to consider yourself a winner, may help your ego and self-esteem.

Bored for now

[samurai]

What an amazing country Thailand is! A man who was convicted on criminal charges can dictate the person he wants to be the priminister. Police and public officials get away

He can't.

He IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks to the BOUGHT population

Thaksin "bought" the population?

With what?

[samurai]

Perhaps the whole Thai election system needs to be reformed? I heard the Democrats talk about that a few months ago, that the PM should be elected by the popular vote, instead of the MP's electing the PM. It works well in most countries around the world, why not in Thailand? It would surely kill the argument that the majority didn't get their voices heard But I guess they dropped that idea after they found out that the majority of Thais don't support the Democrats.

I am not sure what reality you live in, but in most countries that has a PM the PM is NOT directly elected by the people. That position is called 'president'.

And that includes all the nations with highest democracy index-results in thew world (go back some threads and find the list).

Everyone lives in a little reality of its own. And we are here in Thailand.

I think the talk is about this proposal

Voters should elect the PM, academic says

But nobody feels ever really positive about the ideas of the leading academic Prof Sombat Thamrongthanyawong

Frankly, only a moron would propose a PM to be directly elected.

Partially for the cost of the election process that it would entail and partially because it would alter the system we currently have into a republic as the end-station. But alas that is what some red revolutionaries want...

But that is what that Thai academics came forward with. this , people vote for the PM, will certainly never happen. but Prof Sombat is quite often in the news with his ideas.

The Abhisit government appointed him to the Chairman of some political reform panel to do some gerrymandering and similar stuff.

This is Thailand, was is maybe moronic in Sweden, could be seen different here. Never forget that before questioning another member in what reality he lives in.

[TAWP]

I question the reality that Irena lives in since she stated "..the PM should be elected by the popular vote, instead of the MP's electing the PM. It works well in most countries around the world, why not in Thailand?" - which is blatantly untrue.

But you are right, I could call her a liar instead.

[samurai]

I question the reality that Irena lives in since she stated "..the PM should be elected by the popular vote, instead of the MP's electing the PM. It works well in most countries around the world, why not in Thailand?" - which is blatantly untrue.

But you are right, I could call her a liar instead.

Not every erroneous thought makes someone to a liar.

And she had a point, the debate if the Thai PM should be elected by the people is out there. Something you seems to ignore or just can react to it with insults.

[whybother]

I question the reality that Irena lives in since she stated "..the PM should be elected by the popular vote, instead of the MP's electing the PM. It works well in most countries around the world, why not in Thailand?" - which is blatantly untrue.

But you are right, I could call her a liar instead.

Not every erroneous thought makes someone to a liar.

And she had a point, the debate if the Thai PM should be elected by the people is out there. Something you seems to ignore or just can react to it with insults.

But her statement that "electing the PM by popular vote ... works well in most countries around the world" is clearly not true.

[samurai]

I question the reality that Irena lives in since she stated "..the PM should be elected by the popular vote, instead of the MP's electing the PM. It works well in most countries around the world, why not in Thailand?" - which is blatantly untrue.

But you are right, I could call her a liar instead.

Not every erroneous thought makes someone to a liar.

And she had a point, the debate if the Thai PM should be elected by the people is out there. Something you seems to ignore or just can react to it with insults.

But her statement that "electing the PM by popular vote ... works well in most countries around the world" is clearly not true.

Okay, call her a liar and moronic if you want. put her on your ignore list. and take the life easy.

What she actually wanted was to discuss about this proposal:

Voters should elect the PM, academic says

You cannot say she made something up. and for a tongue-in-cheek you should not call someone a liar.

Some prefer a debate with some humour, but without childish bickering.

Edited May 25, 2011 by samurai

[Buchholz]

I question the reality that Irena lives in since she stated "..the PM should be elected by the popular vote, instead of the MP's electing the PM. It works well in most countries around the world, why not in Thailand?" - which is blatantly untrue.

But you are right, I could call her a liar instead.

Not every erroneous thought makes someone to a liar.

And she had a point, the debate if the Thai PM should be elected by the people is out there. Something you seems to ignore or just can react to it with insults.

But her statement that "electing the PM by popular vote ... works well in most countries around the world" is clearly not true.

The character in question is actually lrena (with lower case L as the first letter) and is not Irena (with a capital I as the first letter). A shortcoming of the default font that becomes apparent only when changing to a different font.

It's highly doubtful that he is a she.

.

Edited May 25, 2011 by Buchholz

[samurai]

The character in question is actually lrena (with lower case L as the first letter) and so is not Irena.

It's highly doubtful that he is a she.

does that really matter?

[rubl]

The character in question is actually lrena (with lower case L as the first letter) and so is not Irena.

It's highly doubtful that he is a she.

does that really matter?

The he/she is unimportant, but the correct spelling of a name effects search results

[ianbaggie]

What an amazing country Thailand is! A man who was convicted on criminal charges can dictate the person he wants to be the priminister. Police and public officials get away

He can't.

He IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks to the BOUGHT population

Thaksin "bought" the population?

With what?

Samurai - why do you profess opinions about things then show you know nothing about them. Have you never had a Thai tell you that on each voting slip is printed how much you will get for your vote from K Thaksin. Do you not know that Thaksin pays 500 baht - 1000 baht for your vote? How can you print so many comments and know so little!. But keep going every post you make makes your point of view look less and less stable!!

Edited May 25, 2011 by ianbaggie

[whybother]

Okay, call her a liar and moronic if you want. put her on your ignore list. and take the life easy.

What she actually wanted was to discuss about this proposal:

Voters should elect the PM, academic says

http://www.thaivisa....-academic-says/

You cannot say she made something up. and for a tongue-in-cheek you should not call someone a liar.

Some prefer a debate with some humour, but without childish bickering.

We are discussing his/her statement.

It's fine to discuss the pros and cons of a particular method, but making a statement that isn't true (ie. is made up) is not the way to do that.

[samurai]

He IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks to the BOUGHT population

Thaksin "bought" the population?

With what?

Samurai - why do you profess opinions about things then show you know nothing about them. Have you never had a Thai tell you that on each voting slip is printed how much you will get for your vote from K Thaksin. Do you not know that Thaksin pays 500 baht - 1000 baht for your vote? How can you print so many comments and know so little!!

What is the total sum? How much money one has to spend to buy the population?

[ianbaggie]

He IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks to the BOUGHT population

Thaksin "bought" the population?

With what?

Samurai - why do you profess opinions about things then show you know nothing about them. Have you never had a Thai tell you that on each voting slip is printed how much you will get for your vote from K Thaksin. Do you not know that Thaksin pays 500 baht - 1000 baht for your vote? How can you print so many comments and know so little!!

What is the total sum? How much money one has to spend to buy the population?

grade 3 math lesson coming up - 500 baht X the number of votes = total spent on buying votes. Does that help you?? Just the same as 1000 baht X number of protestors = total spent on red shirt riots!!, do you need further lessons - if so i charge 500 baht an hour!!

[whybother]

I read it as a tongue-in-cheek or as a mocking of these often heard phrase " in most other countries".

Some prefer a debate with some humour, other a debate with childish bickering.

I didn't.

I prefer a debate with some facts.

[samurai]

P.S. in political science 101, you read it in translation.

Political science 101 makes you a expert nowadays? :lol:

No, it make you not to an expert. no one ever claimed this. Its about what your learn about Plato in political science 101.

And to know the relevance of Plato's text Politeia/The Republic in a discussion about democracy. So we could have at least a debate that has some arguments of a little bit educated nature.

OzMick: "It IS one of the weaknesses of democracy that the village idiot gets the same voting rights as a professor of political science."

Pi Sek: "(Democracy) is absolutely flawed because of just that - an uninformed decision has as much weight as an informed decision."

PLATO: "Until Philosophers are kings...cities will never have rest from their troubles".

Pi Sek: "This doesn't change the fact that the concept of philosphical kings has no bearing on our current discussion."

Political science 101 definitely doesn't make you to an expert, but also not to a fool.

[ianbaggie]

P.S. in political science 101, you read it in translation.

Political science 101 makes you a expert nowadays? :lol:

No, it make you not to an expert. no one ever claimed this. Its about what your learn about Plato in political science 101.

And to know the relevance of Plato's text Politeia/The Republic in a discussion about democracy. So we could have at least a debate that has some arguments of a little bit educated nature.

OzMick: "It IS one of the weaknesses of democracy that the village idiot gets the same voting rights as a professor of political science."

Pi Sek: "(Democracy) is absolutely flawed because of just that - an uninformed decision has as much weight as an informed decision."

PLATO: "Until Philosophers are kings...cities will never have rest from their troubles".

Pi Sek: "This doesn't change the fact that the concept of philosphical kings has no bearing on our current discussion."

Political science 101 definitely doesn't make you to an expert, but also not to a fool.

Now your somewhere near the problem - maybe one day youll stumble on the possibility that many democracies may have an overseeing body - in Thailands case - the army. Democracy is about selection not acceptance. If you truly want to be democratic you need to give street dogs and snakes the vote too!!

By the way Samurai maybe you could start level 3 math after you finish level 1 and rafia mat making!!

Edited May 25, 2011 by ianbaggie

[samurai]

P.S. in political science 101, you read it in translation.

Political science 101 makes you a expert nowadays? :lol:

No, it make you not to an expert. no one ever claimed this. Its about what your learn about Plato in political science 101.

And to know the relevance of Plato's text Politeia/The Republic in a discussion about democracy. So we could have at least a debate that has some arguments of a little bit educated nature.

OzMick: "It IS one of the weaknesses of democracy that the village idiot gets the same voting rights as a professor of political science."

Pi Sek: "(Democracy) is absolutely flawed because of just that - an uninformed decision has as much weight as an informed decision."

PLATO: "Until Philosophers are kings...cities will never have rest from their troubles".

Pi Sek: "This doesn't change the fact that the concept of philosphical kings has no bearing on our current discussion."

Political science 101 definitely doesn't make you to an expert, but also not to a fool.

Now your somewhere near the problem - maybe one day youll stumble on the possibility that many democracies may have an overseeing body - in Thailands case - the army. Democracy is about selection not acceptance. If you truly want to be democratic you need to give street dogs and snakes the vote too!!

Of course.

[metisdead]

A post containing derogatory comments regarding Thais and Thailand has been been removed.

Off topic baiting posts have been removed as well.

[samurai]

Thaksin "bought" the population?

With what?

Samurai - why do you profess opinions about things then show you know nothing about them. Have you never had a Thai tell you that on each voting slip is printed how much you will get for your vote from K Thaksin. Do you not know that Thaksin pays 500 baht - 1000 baht for your vote? How can you print so many comments and know so little!!

What is the total sum? How much money one has to spend to buy the population?

grade 3 math lesson coming up - 500 baht X the number of votes = total spent on buying votes. Does that help you?? Just the same as 1000 baht X number of protestors = total spent on red shirt riots!!, do you need further lessons - if so i charge 500 baht an hour!!

Okay, I see that are the costs to buy the population.

I still have doubts, when you say Thaksin bought the population it is just a claim. Have you evidence for it?

[PoorSucker]

I still have doubts, when you say Thaksin bought the population it is just a claim. Have you evidence for it?